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anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6042
http:// 82.44.47.99
Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 8:13:44 AM
As someone who is both English and interested rather than an expert on the Civil War I found "Gettysburg" satisfyingly enjoyable.However at five hours long it had to
be padded out

The battle scenes capture the "terrible beauty" of combat, conveying the horror,carnage (reminiscent of the Newfoundland Regt on the first day of the Somme), claustrophobia and violence without being too horrific for me to watch.

The one question I was left with came from Martin Sheen's portrayal of Lee. I know Lee had been unwell before the battle but Martin Sheen seems strangely remote from events, with a glazed look in his eye and high-pitched 'other worldly' voice.

Is this fair and accurate? At least Lee has the moral courage to say "It's all my fault" when he sees the result of Pickett's Charge. I don't remember Douglas Haig saying that after the first day on the Somme in 1916.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 507

Re: GETTYSBURG --1993 mOVIE
Posted on: 6/20/2017 8:15:33 AM
It's based on "Killer Angels", so you'd have to determine the accuracy of that book to decide if the mini-series is accurate, I think. Civil War's not my thing, but I've watched that video countless times.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6042
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 8:26:42 AM
Not having read "Killer Angels" Opana- I must confess that I was quite thrilled by what had been produced by the Turner Co.Ignorance in this case being bliss.

Regards

Jim
















---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2549

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 9:11:49 AM
Longstreet comes over as the hero of that film.

The theme recurs in so many war films....the prescient officer, who tries to warn his superior commander that this is not a good idea; that it's not going to work.

We see it in the film about Arnhem A BRIDGE TOO FAR.

We see it dramatically in Tony Richardson's CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE.

We see it in ZULU DAWN.

The high command refuses to listen, let alone budge.

But the depiction of Lee in the Gettysburg movie is far more nuanced : it's sympathetic and convincing ; and we see Lee, in his private moments, reflecting on the prospect that Longstreet might well be right.

We're made aware of the immense dilema that faces Lee as he has to weigh up the risks.....he knows the hazards of pushing home the attack....but he also dwells on the horror of the conflict dragging on and on We're adrift here on a sea of blood, and I want it to end .

I find this compelling and moving.

The grandeur of the battle scenes is something to behold.

It avoids the lurid fixation on gore : perhaps to the extent that the depiction is too sanitised.

Also, far too few Yankees are seen to be cut down in the climactic scene of Pickett's Charge. It looks too one sided.

All in all, a very convincing rendition of the pressures of high command.

The depiction of Lee, especially, wins my approval.

Regards , Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6042
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 9:24:49 AM
Phil-I thought the back ground music waa ravishingly haunting =particularly at the very beginning.I am watching "Gods and Generals" tonight-major players -different actors-will compare the Lees and the Longstreets.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5561

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 9:56:09 AM
You may have trouble getting through Gods and Generals. I didn't find it to be a very good movie at all and the actor who played "Stonewall" Jackson, Steven Lang (?) was a bit hammy.

Civil war buffs may like it, but I found it tedious.

Let us know, Jim.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6042
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 10:10:16 AM
Certainly George-I confess that I thought- the padding and the sometimes meaningless asides in Gettysburg- boring; but I will view this other of the trilogy with a degree of acuity.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 399
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 10:17:43 AM
Yeah Gods and Generals wasn't near as good as Gettysburg, but I still really enjoyed it. Seeing Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, recreated is worth the watch alone. I think Lang did about as good of a job as one can expect from such a complicated character as Jackson. And Robert Duvall was great as Lee, as he is with any character he plays.

Gettysburg has it's flaws too, but that movie got me started as a student of the Civil War. I was a boy when I saw it in theaters, and next thing you know I'm going to reenactments, spending too much time (and money) traveling around to battlefields. I was hooked.

---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6042
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 10:26:38 AM
Thanks littlepowell-whatever happened to the third in the trilogy "Last Full Measure"can't seem to find it anywhere.????I too am hooked; but not sufficiently informed to make a fist of it in discussion-although did try a while back.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 399
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 2:09:28 PM

Quote:
Thanks littlepowell-whatever happened to the third in the trilogy "Last Full Measure"can't seem to find it anywhere.????I too am hooked; but not sufficiently informed to make a fist of it in discussion-although did try a while back.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


Hi Jim - Yes I have hoped for years that a company would fund a "Last Full Measure" movie, but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest to complete the trilogy. I believe at one point Turner had considered making the 3rd movie, but since Gods And Generals was considered a box-office flop, the idea fell through..

It really is a shame because just imagine the campaigns of 1864 being re-created on the big screen. The Overland, Sherman's march, the horrors of Total War, the surrender in 65.. It's fun to fantasize about it though. Who would play Grant? Sherman?
---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2549

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 4:24:59 PM

Quote:
Thanks littlepowell-whatever happened to the third in the trilogy "Last Full Measure"can't seem to find it anywhere.????I too am hooked; but not sufficiently informed to make a fist of it in discussion-although did try a while back.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


The great joy of studying - and discussing - the American Civi War, is the way it engages our emotions . Never mind the intellect !

Please discuss it, Jim, and don't allow lack of information to deter you from opening up.

There are plenty of sad fools like me who will rush to rectify any factual deficiencies.

Regards , Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2887

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 4:46:41 PM

Quote:
Yeah Gods and Generals wasn't near as good as Gettysburg, but I still really enjoyed it. Seeing Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, recreated is worth the watch alone. I think Lang did about as good of a job as one can expect from such a complicated character as Jackson. And Robert Duvall was great as Lee, as he is with any character he plays.

Gettysburg has it's flaws too, but that movie got me started as a student of the Civil War. I was a boy when I saw it in theaters, and next thing you know I'm going to reenactments, spending too much time (and money) traveling around to battlefields. I was hooked.


--littlepowell


lp.

I agree these movies had some flaws but really helped inspire a interest in the Civil War!

Gettysburg (full movie}

[Read More]

movie size, & audio off, any one have a better video feed??

MD


---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 682

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 6:45:35 PM

Quote:
Certainly George-I confess that I thought- the padding and the sometimes meaningless asides in Gettysburg- boring; but I will view this other of the trilogy with a degree of acuity.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


One reason it is so long is that it was originally made as a multi part television miniseries. Ted Turner reportedly thought that it was better than anything he had seen that won an Academy Award, and decided on a theatrical release instead.

"Gods and Generals"? Do yourself a favor and turn it off after the opening battleflags sequence.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 682

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 6/20/2017 6:48:24 PM

Quote:
Thanks littlepowell-whatever happened to the third in the trilogy "Last Full Measure"can't seem to find it anywhere.????I too am hooked; but not sufficiently informed to make a fist of it in discussion-although did try a while back.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


The first two movies were basically flops. They killed the whole genre.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

Dave G
Halifax, NS, Canada
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 87

Re: GETTYSBURG --1993 mOVIE
Posted on: 6/20/2017 8:19:20 PM

Quote:
It's based on "Killer Angels", so you'd have to determine the accuracy of that book to decide if the mini-series is accurate, I think. Civil War's not my thing, but I've watched that video countless times.
--OpanaPointer

I read "The Killer Angels" both before and after the movie came out. Reading the book is pretty much like reading the script of the movie with the action, conversating and speechifying mostly word for word. I had seen the movie so often I gave up reading it partway through the second go-round.

On the other hand, there is no resemblance at all between the movie and book "Gods & Generals." The book was apparently written just to push sales of the movie and covers a great amount of the first 2 years civil war history.
---------------
Dave G

Steve Clements
Toronto, ON, Canada
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Moderator
Posts: 415

Re: GETTYSBURG --1993 mOVIE
Posted on: 6/25/2017 9:31:59 AM

Quote:
I read "The Killer Angels" both before and after the movie came out. Reading the book is pretty much like reading the script of the movie with the action, conversating and speechifying mostly word for word. I had seen the movie so often I gave up reading it partway through the second go-round.


Agree.

Unfortunately, what "works" in book form does not necessarily translate well onto the screen. There were several (?) scenes in the movie that reminded me of a Shakespearean soliloquy....one actor standing there, pontificating on the philosophy of war etc., while the other actors stand around lifelessly, apparently waiting for him to finish.

Still, if one is a CW buff, it was hard to not enjoy. But it was definitely one movie where it was a mistake to drag along your 'significant other' ... a mistake I made.

By the time that Gods & Generals came out, I had learned my lesson, and went alone. And walked out before the end of the movie, hoping that no one that I knew would see me leaving the theatre.

s.c.

jahenders
Colorado Springs, CO, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist
Posts: 59

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/23/2017 3:29:02 PM
I generally enjoyed the movie, but had a VERY hard time accepting Sheen as Lee. I would have enjoyed it more if they had used someone else.

I very much enjoyed the book "Killer Angels" and the movie generally sticks to its outline. However, as is usually the case, the book was better than the movie.

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 351

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/23/2017 8:28:26 PM
I enjoyed the movie too, and watch it on a regular basis.
Don't mind Sheen's portrayal of Lee more so than Duval's in Gods and Generals.

Dave G
Halifax, NS, Canada
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 87

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/25/2017 9:43:35 AM

Quote:
As someone who is both English and interested rather than an expert on the Civil War I found "Gettysburg" satisfyingly enjoyable.However at five hours long it had to
be padded out

The battle scenes capture the "terrible beauty" of combat, conveying the horror,carnage (reminiscent of the Newfoundland Regt on the first day of the Somme), claustrophobia and violence without being too horrific for me to watch.

The one question I was left with came from Martin Sheen's portrayal of Lee. I know Lee had been unwell before the battle but Martin Sheen seems strangely remote from events, with a glazed look in his eye and high-pitched 'other worldly' voice.

Is this fair and accurate? At least Lee has the moral courage to say "It's all my fault" when he sees the result of Pickett's Charge. I don't remember Douglas Haig saying that after the first day on the Somme in 1916.

Regards

Jim
--anemone

Re - "padded out"
I finally saw the extended version of the film.

In a scene that was removed from the regular version, Lee confers with Ewell, Early, Rodes and AP Hill on the evening of July 1st. about why they failed to take "that hill." Early and Ewell give some good reasons about why they did not take Culp's Hill
- his men were fought out,
- reports of Feds on their right,
- no artillery available,
- General Johnson was late,
- Lee had not inspected the ground personally to see the situation.
Then Lee suggested they move to the left and get between the enemy and Washington as per Longstreet's suggestion, but his generals said that was not practical because it it would hurt the morale of Ewell's men

This scene explained a lot and really should have been left in. It showed a good justification for Ewell's inaction especially after Trimble's outburst ("Give me one regiment and I will take that hill") and it explained why Lee gave Longstreet the brushoff every time he suggested that they should move to the right.

As for padding, they could have cut out the scene with the "John Henry", almost everything about Fremantle (a lot of which was indeed cut), and much of the overnight chatting among the Confederate Gemerals.
---------------
Dave G

Gregory C. White
Canton, GA, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 172

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/25/2017 5:49:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:
As someone who is both English and interested rather than an expert on the Civil War I found "Gettysburg" satisfyingly enjoyable.However at five hours long it had to
be padded out

The battle scenes capture the "terrible beauty" of combat, conveying the horror,carnage (reminiscent of the Newfoundland Regt on the first day of the Somme), claustrophobia and violence without being too horrific for me to watch.

The one question I was left with came from Martin Sheen's portrayal of Lee. I know Lee had been unwell before the battle but Martin Sheen seems strangely remote from events, with a glazed look in his eye and high-pitched 'other worldly' voice.

Is this fair and accurate? At least Lee has the moral courage to say "It's all my fault" when he sees the result of Pickett's Charge. I don't remember Douglas Haig saying that after the first day on the Somme in 1916.

Regards

Jim
--anemone

Re - "padded out"
I finally saw the extended version of the film.

In a scene that was removed from the regular version, Lee confers with Ewell, Early, Rodes and AP Hill on the evening of July 1st. about why they failed to take "that hill." Early and Ewell give some good reasons about why they did not take Culp's Hill
- his men were fought out,
- reports of Feds on their right,
- no artillery available,
- General Johnson was late,
- Lee had not inspected the ground personally to see the situation.
Then Lee suggested they move to the left and get between the enemy and Washington as per Longstreet's suggestion, but his generals said that was not practical because it it would hurt the morale of Ewell's men

This scene explained a lot and really should have been left in. It showed a good justification for Ewell's inaction especially after Trimble's outburst ("Give me one regiment and I will take that hill") and it explained why Lee gave Longstreet the brushoff every time he suggested that they should move to the right.

As for padding, they could have cut out the scene with the "John Henry", almost everything about Fremantle (a lot of which was indeed cut), and much of the overnight chatting among the Confederate Gemerals.
--Dave G


Was the "John Henry" scene based on an actual incident involving the 20th Maine during the Gettysburg campaign ?
---------------
"I do not believe that any man can adequately appreciate the world of to-day unless he has some knowledge of...[and] some feeling for...the history of the world of the past." Theodore Roosevelt

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 507

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/26/2017 7:46:33 AM
Did anyone notice the tableaus taken from paintings and photographs? The three rebs questioned by the younger Chamberlain, for example.

Gregory C. White
Canton, GA, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 172

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/26/2017 10:58:11 AM

Quote:
Did anyone notice the tableaus taken from paintings and photographs? The three rebs questioned by the younger Chamberlain, for example.
--OpanaPointer


The fighting for their "rats" scene?
---------------
"I do not believe that any man can adequately appreciate the world of to-day unless he has some knowledge of...[and] some feeling for...the history of the world of the past." Theodore Roosevelt

Dave G
Halifax, NS, Canada
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 87

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/26/2017 11:59:23 AM
The "John Henry" scene is right out of "The Killer Angels" book where a wounded slave has been trailing the Union army. It gives Kilrain the opportunity to segue into referring to people as "killer angels."


Quote:
Did anyone notice the tableaus taken from paintings and photographs? The three rebs questioned by the younger Chamberlain, for example.
--OpanaPointer


While Buford is in the Seminary cupola, the background in the direction of town is one of Brady's photographs colorized.
---------------
Dave G

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2887

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/27/2017 8:28:36 AM
Everyone talks about the bayonet charge scene by the 20th Maine, it is good!

[Read More]

Bayonets!!
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

john hayward
Allenstown, NH, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 134

Re: Gettysburg --1993 Movie
Posted on: 8/27/2017 8:20:56 PM
The first half of Killer Angels was well done (IMHO). Gods and Generals had some good spots. Crossing the Rapahannock at Fredericksburg for example. Overall a bad movie.
Longstreet in KA was poorly done. The actor was told to lose the hat but he refused. Spent most of the time in his tent when not in a scene. Sheen and Duvall as Lee both tried to show him as soft spoken and polite but it came across as Lee being simple and somewhat slow.
jeff Shaara, when asked if there will ever be Part III, laughed and added "No chance"

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