MHO Home   Forum Home   Help   Register   Login
 
 
Welcome to MilitaryHistoryOnline.com.
You are not signed in.
The current time is: 10/23/2017 6:48:16 PM
 (1939-1945) WWII Battles    
AuthorMessage
Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/3/2017 9:38:18 AM
Kai authors a great article on the topic!

[Read More]

It just goes to show how brave men don't quit just because their country was forced to!?

Thanks Kai, really enjoyed it!
Dave

BTW There are great members article on tons of history topics check out the MH opening page!?
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/3/2017 12:47:18 PM

Quote:
Kai authors a great article on the topic!

[Read More]

It just goes to show how brave men don't quit just because their country was forced to!?

Thanks Kai, really enjoyed it!
Dave

BTW There are great members article on tons of history topics check out the MH opening page!?
--Michigan Dave


Thanks Dave,
quite some time since I wrote that, and it was a bit by chance that I did - I just happened to end up with alot of material about it when researching other topics. I still get emails from people all over the world about it - it would appear that many of the Czechoslovakian soldiers chose to stay in the West after WW2 and moved to places like Canada, Australia and New Zealand.Now their children and grand children are searching for information.

Agree with your general recommendation of MHO articles -there are some real gems there.

Kai
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/4/2017 9:06:25 AM
Kai,

As far as the German's were concerned, those Chech Pilots were bad news!


[Read More]

[Read More]

I know the RAF was great-ful!
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3330

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/5/2017 5:56:13 AM
 "The Other Side of the Coin"

 One should note that Czech troops from the Sudetenland were considered German and many were pulled into the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS as "Volksdeutsche" (ethnic Germans of other-than-German nationality). I've no idea how they felt about that, but think it a safe bet they took stiff casualties like those Alsatians conscripted into German service.

 The destiny of Slovakia is a completely separate story, but also interesting.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/5/2017 6:00:15 AM
But what of their post-war fate..

SS-men from Alsace-Lorraine were deemed to be French, & thus exempt from the sanctions applied to their SS comrades..

Somehow I doubt the same applied to many of those unfortunate to find themselves on the other side of the 'Iron Curtain'...

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3330

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/5/2017 6:03:38 AM
 A bit more, this was found in the "Feldgrau" forum.


Quote:
The Protectorate was allowed to keep 12 Czech infantry battalions as its token army, to maintain the facade of legitimacy for German actions. However, they were allowed no artillery of any sort, including mortars. Total establishment strength was about 7,000.

During 1941-43 President Hacha reportedly three times offered a Czech Legion for service on the Eastern Front because he felt this would help establish a distinctive Czech contribution to the Axis and perhaps prevent the country's dissolution by Germany after the war. However, Hitler rejected the idea. (See "Hitler's Table Talk" for mid 1942).

In early 1944 the Germans sent eleven of the twelve Czech battalions to Italy to work as pioneer units because they were increasingly worried about the possibility of a Czech revolt, with disasterous consequences to Czech arms production for the Reich. They dug defence lines, repaired railways and bridges, and guarded various installations behind the lines and were never intended for combat.

However, hundreds of men deserted to the Italian partisans, so in late 1944 all their rifles were taken away by the Germans, leaving them unarmed except for the officers' pistols.

During the winter of 1944-45 hundreds more Czechs escaped to Switzerland, from where many managed to make their way to France and were absorbed into the Czechoslovak Brigade besieging Dunkirk. (When Dunkirk surrendered at the end of the war the Czechoslovaks captured at least one U-boat - possibly the most useless war booty ever for a landlocked country!)

In 1945, along with the the Slovak construction brigade also in Italy, the Czech labour battalions were designated 1st Czechoslovak Division in Italy by the Czechoslovak Government in London, with whom they had opened communications. As a result, when they returned to Czechoslovakia at the end of the war they did so as Allied troops.

The 1st Battalion had remained as the ceremonial guard of President Hacha in Prague. It took part in the uprising against the Germans in May 1945 and so also passed into Allied ranks.


 Not a pleasant era to be a Czech.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/10/2017 11:46:34 AM
BW,

Bleak picture for sure!

And remember what Neville Chamberlain said!?

[Read More]
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5314

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/10/2017 1:22:26 PM
Neville Chamberlain has taken far too much criticism for his actions in his quest for peace in Europe.

Was the quest for a diplomatic solution in opposition to traditional British foreign policy?

As well, I would suggest that the events of 1914-1918 informed British policy with regard to Hitler and the Reich. The loss of a generation of British youth should have made any politician cautious before committing to war again.

If WW2 had been avoided, how would we perceive Neville Chamberlain today?

It is interesting that when diplomatic solutions to dangerous situations are sought, the word "appeasement" is not usually applied.

Is the nuclear non-proliferation pact an act of appeasement? How about the current deal with Iran?

The following is a rather long debate by a group of scholars in which Chamberlain's actions are discussed.

[Read More]


Cheers,

George




Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 10:06:12 AM
Yes George,

Your right history has wrongly made Chamberlain out to be a buffoon!?

unfair!
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5314

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 11:27:10 AM

Quote:
Yes George,

Your right history has wrongly made Chamberlain out to be a buffoon!?

unfair!
MD
--Michigan Dave


That's just how I feel Dave. The debate that I provided upstream featured two learned gentlemen with a more disparaging view of Chamberlain.

Cheers,

George

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 12:30:16 PM
Before leaving Munich, Chamberlain and Hitler signed a paper declaring their mutual desire to resolve differences through consultation to assure peace.

Both Daladier and Chamberlain returned home to jubilant welcoming crowds relieved that the threat of war had passed, and Chamberlain told the British public that he had achieved “peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time.”

His words were immediately challenged by his greatest critic, Winston Churchill, who declared, “You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you will have war.” Indeed, Chamberlain’s policies were discredited the following year, when Hitler annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia in March and then precipitated World War II by invading Poland in September.

The Munich Agreement became a byword for the futility of appeasing expansionist totalitarian states, although it did buy time for the Allies to increase their military preparedness.

Source-Encyclopedia Britannica

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 472

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 12:45:08 PM
George I actually agree with a lot of what your saying right up until, If WW2 had been avoided, how would we perceive Neville Chamberlain today?
WWII was inevitable as long as Hitler stays in power. In fact a form of WWII may be inevitable as long as Stalin stays in power. The problem is that for a negotiated peace both sides have to be willing to not get everything they want and believe they don't have the ability to take and hold everything they want.

Yes the current deal with Iran is appeasement but appeasement can only be proven after its come back and bit you in the ass.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5314

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 1:27:44 PM
Hello John. I have to confess that I have to avoid looking at video of Chamberlain waving that piece of paper. As a politician his appearance does not inspire confidence. Now that's pretty shallow on my part but I doubt that he would have been able to get elected today.

So I have to think about the choice that Britain made at that time with Chamberlain as the point man.

I think that he was strapped though. His country was unprepared for war and the people were disinclined to go to war in 1938. They had suffered quite a bit in the Great War.

Even in my country there was great reluctance to join in. There was none of that "King and Country" stuff or "Let's teach the Kaiser a lesson".
The first war had been a shocker.

But to your comment, you said that WW2 was inevitable. Do you mean without the UK?

I think that Hitler would have moved east while Stalin was still rebuilding his forces and finding replacements for the senior officers that he had purged.

But do you think that the UK and perhaps the US would have been drawn in eventually?

As an aside, was the war with Japan also inevitable?

Cheers,

George

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 1:55:58 PM
Yes- I believe World War Two was inevitable, because,it was just a continuation of World War One; but with a long armistice. The same sides fought the war, except Italy and Japan who switched sides.After the Great Depression, war was inevitable, and the Treaty of Versailles only fostered enormous resentment in Germany.

After Hitler's election, which was a direct result of the Great Depression, war was certainly inevitable- because his "life work" was to destroy Judaism, Communism and the Slavic peoples. This required war. Appeasement was not a decider, it only delayed war- rather than bringing peace.In any case once WSC had got rid of Chamberlain-the old warmonger made war doubly inevitable.

It was a fact that appeasement was far more beneficial to the Allies rather than the Axis. In the two main wars, Britain only just won- WW1 after a long struggle; and WW2 with American massive aid-where we were sidelined in Europe.GB just could not really afford WW2; but it came about nevertheless.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 472

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/12/2017 9:40:07 PM
George,

Hitler isn't going to let the humiliation of Versaille(sp?) stand unavenged and Italy not going to let her ambitions in the Med and the recreation of a Roman Empire sleep. Then do you really think France and the UK would be happy if Stalin was the winner or that Stalin would be satisfied with stopping at the Rhine if France and the UK sat it out?

Unless the US lets Japan have a free hand in the Pacific and that means pulling out of the Philippines while the European powers pull out of their colonies.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


RuudSp

New User
E-2 Private
Posts: 16

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/14/2017 8:49:58 PM

Quote:
Neville Chamberlain has taken far too much criticism for his actions in his quest for peace in Europe.

While I agree two unpleasant facts remain:

1. in late 1938 the Czechoslowakian Army had way more fighting capability than the Polish Army half a year later;
2. in spring 1939 that same Chamberlain was desperately looking for a Central-European Ally.

It seems to me then that something had gone terribly wrong with his international policy.
Of course this applies even more to Edouard Daladier and possibly Emil Hacha.

As I'm a bad listener my question is whether that group of scholars do address these points and if yes, how.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 3/14/2017 9:03:17 PM
& Chamberlain is of course, on record - as 'appeasing' Stalin with a platitudinous response to the Soviet spoils gained from Poland, ( despite the "guarantee")
plus the other M-R pact gains of Romanian territory & re-absorption of the Baltic states into 'Czar Josef's' empire... as Brest-Litovsk/Versailles 're-adjustments'..

Perhaps if he had simply recognised the whole fait accompli situation,
& called off the war, while it was still largely 'phoney', Chamberlain would still be seen a 'peacemaker',
- for Western Europe/R.o.W, anyhow...

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3330

Re: What happened to the Chech Troops after early WWII surrender?
Posted on: 7/2/2017 3:22:35 AM


Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

 (1939-1945) WWII Battles    
 Forum Ads from Google