MHO Home   Forum Home   Help   Register   Login
 
 
Welcome to MilitaryHistoryOnline.com.
You are not signed in.
The current time is: 10/23/2017 10:18:44 PM
 General History    
AuthorMessage
Page 1 of 2 (Page: 1  2 )
anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/3/2017 1:20:29 PM
August, 1947, when, after three hundred years in India, the British finally left, the subcontinent was partitioned into two independent nation states: Hindu-majority- India, and Muslim-majority- Pakistan.

Immediately, there began one of the greatest migrations in human history, as millions of Muslims trekked to West and East Pakistan (the latter now known as Bangladesh) while millions of Hindus and Sikhs headed in the opposite direction. Many hundreds of thousands never made it-why was that???


[Read More]

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/3/2017 1:44:11 PM
Hi Jim,

The BBC's take on it!?

[Read More]

Certainly a complicated situation!
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2775

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/3/2017 1:48:51 PM
India's take on it!

[Read More]
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/3/2017 2:01:37 PM
Thanks Dave for your contribution-I must say you are very attentive-good to have you around.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2482

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/3/2017 2:48:12 PM
The story hit the big screen in the UK today.... Viceroy's House, starring Hugh Boneville ( Downton Abbey fame ) and Gillian Anderson ( The Fall ).

My initial reaction was that it might be a bit trite....but it worked, and left me deeply moved.

There was a chilling comment by the Muslim League leader Jenna :

You British know how to divide and rule : you did it in Ireland ; you did it in Palestine; and now you're doing it in India.

Those were not the exact words, but they were something like that.

Regards , Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/4/2017 3:37:28 AM
Critics allege that British haste led to increased cruelties during the Partition. Independence was declared prior to the actual Partition,and it was up to the new governments of India and Pakistan to keep public order.

Yhere wereto be no large population movements; the plan called for safeguards for minorities on both sides of the new border. It was a task at which both states failed. A complete breakdown of law and order caused many to die in riots, massacre, or just from the hardships of their flight to safety.

This was one of the largest population movements in recorded history. According to Richard Symonds, at the lowest estimate, half a million people perished and twelve million became homeless.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2482

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/4/2017 8:02:47 AM
The film played a conspiracy theme.

Mountbatten was set up as the Fall Guy, implementing a partition that had secretly been designed by Churchill during the war, with the express purpose of creating a buffer state of Pakistan to deny soviet access to India and prevent Uncle Joe Stalin from getting his hands on the oil.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/4/2017 8:33:29 AM
According to the studies conducted by the Institute of Strategic Studies (ISS), the Soviet Union did not welcomed the partition of Bengal and Punjab, fluctuating from cool to antagonistic and hostile relations.

Moscow gave vehement criticism to United Kingdom for partitioning the region, regarded as their "Divide and Rule strategy of foreign policy of Great Britain, and had earlier labelled the Muslim League as a tool of the British, from its very inception".##

So it would appear that there was a "conspiracy" to keep Russia out of the sub continent



Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Éireann_Ascendant
Dublin, Ireland
New User
E-2 Private


Posts: 16
https://erinascendantwordpress.wordpress.com/
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/5/2017 3:31:23 PM
The problem is that India had never been a country or nation, just a huge landmass with competing princedoms, empires and religions. The British was part of this picture and ended up becoming the dominant one, but they didn't create the problems.

As much as it might pain modern-day Indian nationalists, India's problems were Indian-made.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/5/2017 6:28:30 PM

Quote:
The problem is that India had never been a country or nation, just a huge landmass with competing princedoms, empires and religions. The British was part of this picture and ended up becoming the dominant one, but they didn't create the problems.

As much as it might pain modern-day Indian nationalists, India's problems were Indian-made.
--Éireann_Ascendant



Agreed, & just as in other 'artificial' states such as Yugoslavia, Sudan & Iraq, once the boot of authority is lifted, simmering tensions boil over,
especially those which are inculcated by strong religious/cultural enmities - that reach up through the generations..



anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/6/2017 4:32:08 AM
The issue of religion has constantly plagued India since before independence.

The lack of education among the masses and the ease with which corrupt politicians can take advantage of the same has been attributed as the major reason for religious conflicts in India.

Even though Freedom of religion is an integral part of the India constitution, the inability to hold communal mob's accountable has limited the exercise of religious freedom in India.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/6/2017 5:30:23 AM
Not only poverty of education Jim, since even those receiving education who are standardised-IQ tested, show the effects of diet related brain mal-development..

Currently India is 'sporting' an IQ mean of ~80... & yet, that may be better than the 'madrassa education' provided in Pakistan...


anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/6/2017 6:25:27 AM
James-Last assessments for overall average IQ for Pakistan- was 84 with a world ranking of 23.Close-Huh???

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 12:39:36 AM
Yeah, Jim which is more irritating, stupid people cold calling you right on dinner time,
or low intellect zealots being indoctrinated in the god-given ways of holy terror by the 'thus it is written' brigade?

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2482

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 3:14:33 AM
Where's the PC Brigade ?

Shouldn't we have a cohort of metropolitan elitist liberals chastening us for thinking this way ?

After all, the ills of the sub continent must be attributed to the atrocious exploitation by the Raj .....just as the horrors of the Middle East and the African continent testify to the imperialism imposed by " The West" over the generations .

I feel cheated. I'm going to put on my socks and sandals, hug a tree and have my lentil muesli, then I'm going to lecture you.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 3:57:42 AM
Oh Dear-that's torn it-the complete absence of the evils of the Raj.

Is it true that they exploited the resources in India to their advantage.
Native industries were decimated esp after 1857. India was flooded with imports from UK. All our wealth was drained off to the UK.

Is it true that ALL (and I mean ALL) they did was plundering, decimation of our industries, humiliation of us and our customs, mismanagement, massacre of Jallianwallia bagh, summary execution of people who revolted, forced their language with scant regard for our sentiments.There must have some good to balance all that bad ????

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3330

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 3:58:15 AM
 Interesting, that if average IQ is truly so low (one wonders considering the questions about standardized testing for such), that there have been more than a few incredible outliers -- mathematical geniuses and the like. Would be interesting to see the IQ averages associated with the various castes.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3330

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:04:24 AM
All our wealth was drained off to the UK.

 Whose voice is "our", Ke-mo sah-bee Jim ?

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2482

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:08:20 AM

Quote:
Oh Dear-that's torn it-the complete absence of the evils of the Raj.

Is it true that they exploited the resources in India to their advantage.
Native industries were decimated esp after 1857. India was flooded with imports from UK. All our wealth was drained off to the UK.

Is it true that ALL (and I mean ALL) they did was plundering, decimation of our industries, humiliation of us and our customs, mismanagement, massacre of Jallianwallia bagh, summary execution of people who revolted, forced their language with scant regard for our sentiments.There must have some good to balance all that bad ????

Regards

Jim
--anemone


Anything that stops widows being compelled to burn themselves alive on funeral pyres and introduces the game of Cricket cannot be one hundred per cent bad.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:12:21 AM
;quote]I would seriously doubt there have been any published studies on IQ and caste in India, but there’s a fabulous expert named rec1man who posted on Steve Sailer’s old blog. rec1man did the following analysis of India’s potential IQ:


25% Dalit and Tribal = 80 IQ
15% Muslim = 85 IQ
40% Backward Caste = 95 IQ
15% Upper Caste = 110 IQ

The only item missing is the 5% brahmins
…Making a worst case assumption that
Brahmin IQ is no more than Upper caste IQ , would give a brahmin IQ estimate of 110

My private real numbers are a lot higher, but I wont stir up a controversy , until we reach a consensus on average Indian iQ
Average Indian IQ = 0.2580 + 0.1585 + 0.4095 + 0.15110 + 0.05110 = 92.75

The upper caste + brahmin segment = 20% of 1.1 billion = 220 million
at near Ashkenazi levels


[Read More]

Regards

Jim


---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:21:27 AM
Jim, I think your maths might need checking ( a splendid Indian development, to be fair) ,
& do the 'high caste' suffer similar genetic-based diseases as the Jews, due to incessant cousin-level inbreeding, or do they have a large enough gene base?

( & certainly, Indian Nationalist commentary often does - sans irony - hilariously do a Monty Python's Life of Brian - 'What did the bloody Romans ever do for us!' - routine)...

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:36:28 AM
James -if you are referring to "the quoted blog figures" for caste IQ-those figures are certainly not mine;and of course- genetic based diseases have not- up to now- been under discussion.In general however-the British certainly did not put more into India- than they took out-that is indisputable.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 5:09:06 AM
Jim, you surely jest!

You cannot seriously be suggesting that the peoples of the subcontinent would've been better served by missing out on the benefits/gifts of British civilisation?

Compare the outcomes of ex-British America with Latin America, for example..


anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 5:58:58 AM
Hi James-you old leg puller


Quote:
Among the benefits bequeathed by the British connection were the large scale capital investments in infrastructure, in railways, canals and irrigation works, shipping and mining; the commercialisation of agriculture with the development of a cash nexus; the establishment of an education system in English and of law and order creating suitable conditions for the growth of industry and enterprise; and the integration of India into the world economy.

Conversely, the British are criticised for leaving Indians poorer and more prone to devastating famines; exhorting high taxation in cash from an inpecunious people; destabilising cropping patterns by forced commercial cropping; draining Indian revenues to pay for an expensive bureaucracy (including in London) and an army beyond India's own defence needs; servicing a huge sterling debt, not ensuring that the returns from capital investment were reinvested to develop the Indian economy rather than reimbursed to London; and retaining the levers of economic power in British hands.


OK James-you do the maths-just to make myself absolutely clear-it is not the India of today that I am talking about -it is the India of 70 yrs ago when we left it.It would be fair to say that most of GB's former colomies are doing very well today

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

scoucer
Berlin, Germany
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 1924

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 8:17:29 AM
IQ tests are pure BS.

Trevor
---------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie

Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 8:50:36 AM
So you say Trevor- but why-if I may ask-BS because they did not happen or just think of a number.?? BTW I am not fighting you here; but am interested in your statement-I thought them odd myself.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5315

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 9:56:13 AM

Quote:
So you say Trevor- but why-if I may ask-BS because they did not happen or just think of a number.?? BTW I am not fighting you here; but am interested in your statement-I thought them odd myself.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


Jim, the IQ test has been proved to be flawed. It does not measure the complexities of human intelligence and the construct of an IQ test may not be relatable to some people in the population. It is too simplistic a measure.

As well, the standardized IQ test does not acknowledge the different parts of the brain that are used to effect memory, reasoning ability and verbal agility.

If the person taking the test or any standardized test of competency is unfamiliar with the context associated with the question, it is quite likely that he will fail. Background experiences have a lot to do with how a person will respond to these tests.

Unfortunately these tests have been used to unfairly compare the intelligence of one race to the other or in my country, non-native to native people.

There have been a few good Canadian studies that indicate that the standardized IQ tests unfairly categorize First Nations and Inuit people as people of substandard intelligence as compared to non-natives.

Most of our standardized tests of intelligence or even our standardized tests of competency in education employ questions or situations that simply do not adjust for the cultural experiences of Inuit and First Nations people.

I get very antsy when IQ or other tests of intelligence are used to prove disparities in intelligence between racial groups.

Trevor would know better than I but I believe that those claims have been disproved.

Cheers,

George



anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5968
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 10:11:45 AM
Many thanks for your post George-I believe someone asked about IQ tests and I fell for it; but I have to say,in hindsight-I should have steered clear- but you know me-always feet first-old dog/new tricks syndrome. Good to have you back BTW.

Regards

Jim

---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 3:38:17 PM
The IQ test outcomes are cannot be dismissed so easily..

Not only are they standardised, but they are normalised to local settings.
& it has nothing to do with 'race' - but the human species...

Disparities that exist between the same 'race' in a malnourished, poorly educated living context,
& in a high income/proper dietary intake/well educated setting such as as may be prospering in the USA, are clear.

Billy-bo, toothless trailer-park illiterate 'white trash' middle school drop out is likely to show deficits too..

Cultural context educational opportunities & lifestyle, including diet, has a significant bearing on measured IQ,( & not the test, actually) you see...

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5315

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 4:49:53 PM
Sorry James but the validity of the a single IQ test as a determinant of intelligence has been debunked.

And unfortunately, some people have used IQ test results to assert that Asians are brighter than whites who are again brighter than blacks.

There are multiple components to human intelligence. I mentioned only 3 in my previous post, short term memory, reasoning and verbal agility. There are many more.

Not only that, the the study that debunked the accepted premise that a single standardized test is a valid assessment of intelligence also performed functional MRI brain scans while people were taking different tests. It seems that for the different components of human intelligence that different parts of the brain are used.

No single test can give a fair assessment of human intelligence.

You mentioned that the current IQ tests are standardized and that is a problem. One size does not fit all and any test must consider the cultural and social factors affecting the individual.

One single number should never be used to represent the intellectual capacity of an individual.

I understand that people are working to develop tests that will assess multiple intelligences.


[Read More]

Cheers,

George

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 8:57:17 PM
George, "unfortunately" your cited link is concerned with a different field of cerebral research.

The published IQ data sets (such as in 'The Bell Curve') showing IQ results from different 'races' was of course generalised, but validated, on that basis,
- so - some commentators got emotive about it - predictably, but obviously there are marked IQ variations within families, let alone 'races'...

Current IQ tests are designed with due regard to cultural/experiential variables..

Try this:[Read More]

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Moderator


Posts: 1316

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/7/2017 9:54:22 PM
I'm no more prepared to accept "Viceroy's House" as a documentary than I am to accept "Victoria" as a biography.

The so-called "great divide" of 1947 is, IIUC, an Anglo-adoption of the more important Indian "great divide" of 1921, when births clearly were outdistancing deaths. That is also the year when Mohandas Gandhi assumed leadership of the Indian Congress Party. ears after this event (if you can call it an event) one Morandaswas a required activity after almost 30 years of opposition to British control.

Leasers in both India and Pakistan had argued for some form of Independence from Great Britain for at least 25 years before it was granted. Perceived British weakness as a ruling nation was highlighted dramatically during WW2, of course, which hastened the drive towards independence. WSC being rejected as PM in 1945 undoubtedly spelled a quicker doom to British control than might otherwise have been the cause.

I think the question is why it took Great Britain so long to recognize the religious and social differences between Hindu and Muslim majorities, and why – once the decision to allow British India her freedom – one of the first issues wasn't the separate requirements of these two massive religions. Attlee wasn't the brightest or most articulate of leaders, but he should have initiated policies long before the last minute to assure the sub-continent came to maturity without the monumental screw-ups of the "end game".

Cheers
Brian G

---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2482

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/8/2017 4:30:32 AM
Brian,

Too much going on in bombed out, tired and impoverished Great Britain in the late 1940s to allow for proper justice to be done to the question of India, or to that of Palestine.

A brief survey of the way that the Indian army in both World Wars was officered by some of the best and most enlightened British soldiers persuades me that, when it suited them, the British were very aware and solicitious of the ethnic, religious and caste aspects of Indian people.

The Bengal famine of 1943 stands as a hideous blot on the record of British rule ; although, then again, I suppose a certain mitigation might be pleaded in view of other pressing matters that had to be contended with.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

scoucer
Berlin, Germany
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 1924

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/8/2017 7:26:04 AM

Quote:
George, "unfortunately" your cited link is concerned with a different field of cerebral research.

The published IQ data sets (such as in 'The Bell Curve') showing IQ results from different 'races' was of course generalised, but validated, on that basis,
- so - some commentators got emotive about it - predictably, but obviously there are marked IQ variations within families, let alone 'races'...

Current IQ tests are designed with due regard to cultural/experiential variables..

Try this:[Read More]
--James W.


Believe if you want James. As a proffessional , I believe that the incredible development in neuro-biology has completely debunked the behaviourist paradigma.

Naturally, these refuse to accept that they are anachronistic ( no surprise ) and tend, of course, to be agenda-driven.

Trevor

Edit: And the Brain Metrics Institute is under invetigation for being a scam.
---------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie

Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5315

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/8/2017 7:51:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:
George, "unfortunately" your cited link is concerned with a different field of cerebral research.

The published IQ data sets (such as in 'The Bell Curve') showing IQ results from different 'races' was of course generalised, but validated, on that basis,
- so - some commentators got emotive about it - predictably, but obviously there are marked IQ variations within families, let alone 'races'...

Current IQ tests are designed with due regard to cultural/experiential variables..

Try this:[Read More]
--James W.


Believe if you want James. As a proffessional , I believe that the incredible development in neuro-biology has completely debunked the behaviourist paradigma.

Naturally, these refuse to accept that they are anachronistic ( no surprise ) and tend, of course, to be agenda-driven.

Trevor

--scoucer


James, the link that you provided was from the Brain Metrics Institute. I presented a recent study that questioned the efficacy of IQ tests as a determinant of intelligence. The argument presented was that the IQ test was far too simplistic and did not recognize the complexities of human intelligence or the fact that different parts of the brain are responsible for different types of intelligence.

You provided us with a test developed by a commercial enterprise that wishes to sell its product. I am not sure how this single test disproves what many are saying about the reliability of IQ tests as a determinant of intelligence.

There are many IQ tests available on the web. I wouldn't waste my money on them but I am curious as to whether scientists who do intelligence research have anything to say about it.

Look, I am not a psychologist nor did I work in the field as Trevor does but I do know that people in educational research are seeking methodologies that would allow each child to maximize their potential. They are trying to gear instruction to different types of intelligence and single figure IQ tests are not helpful in assessing the potential of a child.

Cheers,

George

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/8/2017 7:14:23 PM
Sorry guys, in putting up that dodgy IQ test link, I was a being bit sardonic,
but frankly, on spending much time with anyone, a fairly accurate IQ 'guesstimate' is not too difficult..

As to the O.P. - somehow I expect that India would not have much liked the same type of 'liberation' from the British,
that - just across the Bay of Bengal - Burma received in 1942, courtesy of Imperial Nippon..

Ironically Burma, along with New Zealand, also officially gained independence in 1947, albeit with somewhat less drama..

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Moderator


Posts: 1316

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/8/2017 9:35:17 PM
Hang on a mo! Sardonic? "Grimly mocking or satirical" (or choose your own definition)? You are just throwing out a "sardonic" view of the capabilities, development, educational capabilities and/or national growth of a huge nation with immense potential?

I'm not a stupid man. And in truth, most serious, active members of MHO are not stupid people. Your posts haven't been written as though they are sardonic. They have been written as if you believe your own comments about IQ, general intelligence and national assessments are to be expected.

Feel free to step away from your comments. Feel free to move from 1949 to 1942. Feel free, IMHO, to attempt to redirect the argument. I don't think you were being sardonic. I don't think your return to the argument based on what happened in Burma is a serious comment.

I like some of the things you post, James. But I'm increasingly concerned about whether you're interested in the discussion or simply prepared to manipulate your involvement.

just wish I didn't feel you were playing funny buggers with the site. Oh, and I believe "funny buggers" is an Oz term. Hope I'm not incorrect.

Cheers
Brian G
---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/9/2017 12:00:58 AM
Silly buggers..

No, Brian, I am not playing at that, the cited IQ test site was posted as evidence of how 'junk science' must be parsed, for validility reasons,
yet the validated data sets are not to be dismissed as 'junk', by mere 'association'..

So, I do act as 'Devil's advocate' perhaps, but I demonstrate that my points are verifiable..

The Indian subcontinent remains wracked by the results of childhood indoctrination of 'holier-than-thou' religious ideology, something that generally
only remains vestigial in more western-developed parts of Asia, such as Nippon, ( & China, albeit - for different reasons)..

That's not to claim that Nippon & putatively peaceful 'middle path' Buddhist-heritage nations are not prone to cultural/'race'-based values/conflicts,
as this is clearly the case in Sri Lanka & Myanmar...

&, back on topic,

I can assure you that British India took the 1942 situation in Burma, very seriously, indeed..
Indian Nationalists were actively courting support for 'freedom' - from the Axis powers then, too...

Lightning
Glasgow, UK
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 444

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/9/2017 7:09:48 AM
James,

There's a fine line between playing "devil's advocate" and trolling. If you're going to argue points that you don't necessarily believe yourself, you really ought to make this crystal clear so that other posters can respond accordingly. As with the thread on the current military affairs regarding females in combat (where I made bit of a tit of myself), I'm similarly finding it hard to ascertain what your views on the partition of British India truly are.

Cheers,

Colin
---------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/9/2017 8:44:03 PM
I don't "necessarily believe" anything, but IMO, evidence-based facts - are a 'starter for 10', Colin..

I do prefer to see the big picture in geo-politcal matters,
& find the nowadays seemingly pervasive overlay of irrational ideological biases often
presented within an over-personalised/emotively couched, if not absolutist - purview, tends to distort a realistic picture.

Likewise, IMO calling 'troll' - due to projection of uncomfortable/unrealised cognitive dissonance - is a cheap 'n' dirty way of 'playing the man, rather than the ball', too.



 General History    
Page 1 of 2 (Page: 1  2 )
 Forum Ads from Google