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The current time is: 12/17/2017 1:18:43 AM
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Lightning
Glasgow, UK
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 459

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/10/2017 6:36:15 AM
James,

I'm not saying you're a troll, but I am clear that if you pursue an approach of picking a position that you don't necessarily agree just to stimulate debate, it makes it hard to justify the point in having the debate altogether.

I'll be frank; I'm not ready to fully believe that you always take the position of Devil's Advocate and I'm inclined to think you're using it as a redoubt on which to fall back when you are being outflanked in the argument. Let us hear your beliefs and your own points, not those of others that you feel obliged to make and defend.

Present your position and your evidence and debate with sincerity, please.

Cheers,

Colin
---------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."

scoucer
Berlin, Germany
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 1958

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/10/2017 11:26:08 AM

Quote:
I don't "necessarily believe" anything, but IMO, evidence-based facts - are a 'starter for 10', Colin..

--James W.


"evidence-based facts" - now these are the hardest to find. Here we start to look at the Philosophy of Scientific Method.

Trevor
---------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie

Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/10/2017 7:41:31 PM
Ok, if the question is - can a relationship be found between places/peoples with a longitudinal history of ongoing cultural enmity,
& a low awareness of internal locus of control/concept of rule of law/civil decency, which is either kept in check by an intrusive religious authority,
or by a militaristic governance, & the type of violence seen in Indian partition?

If the circumstances change so that the religious/cultural aspects are inflamed by religious forment/relaxation of the governance - does 'all hell break loose'?

( As happened in India 1947 & later in Iran, former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Iraq, & etc?)

Is there a relationship between IQ measures & readiness to partake in self-initiated, but cultural/religiously contextual, hate crimes
- as opposed to perpetrating such acts of 'ethnic cleansing' - duly/dutifully as an agent/instrument of 'offcial state authority?.



George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5732

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/10/2017 10:50:04 PM

Quote:
Ok, if the question is - can a relationship be found between places/peoples with a longitudinal history of ongoing cultural enmity,
& a low awareness of internal locus of control/concept of rule of law/civil decency, which is either kept in check by an intrusive religious authority,
or by a militaristic governance, & the type of violence seen in Indian partition?

If the circumstances change so that the religious/cultural aspects are inflamed by religious forment/relaxation of the governance - does 'all hell break loose'?

( As happened in India 1947 & later in Iran, former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Iraq, & etc?)

Is there a relationship between IQ measures & readiness to partake in self-initiated, but cultural/religiously contextual, hate crimes
- as opposed to perpetrating such acts of 'ethnic cleansing' - duly/dutifully as an agent/instrument of 'offcial state authority?.



--James W.


Quite hard to follow I'm afraid James.

Longitudinal studies are by nature only observational and not scientific and if I recall correctly involve the observation of the same subjects in the same scenario over long periods of time

So I think that you have narrowly defined your observations of the Indian people as:

-organized culturally in tribes that hate one another
-people with low self control and a people with a lack of appreciation of the rule of law
-people who must be controlled through an autocratic ruler either military or religious.

And you wish to associate those observations with the violence that ensued in partition. Is that your belief or are you asking whether the association that you have described has been validated by academic study?

And intellect, measured by the IQ test has something to do with a penchant for cultural and religious violence? Is that your belief?

George

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/10/2017 11:07:31 PM
George, I think you'll find this well-considered bloke sums up the situation most succinctly: [Read More]

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5732

Re: India-The Great Divide of 1947
Posted on: 3/22/2017 8:20:59 AM
Just for the record, the producer of the video is MEMRI.

I always check sources, especially youtube video and MEMRI (Middle East Media Research Institute) is oft quoted and sometimes criticized for bias.

The founders were men who were affiliated with the Likud Party in Israel and some critics say that MEMRI, based in Washington is nothing more than a propaganda arm of the Israeli government.

BTW the speaker is Arabic and this thread is about the partition of the Indian sub-continent. Different cultures, not that I should have to point that out.

Some criticism of production is that MEMRI doesn't always make accurate translations and final cuts of productions have sometimes taken words spoken out of context.

Right wing news media in the US love to have MEMRI associates make appearances on their shows.

So watch this video with your antennae up.

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