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 American Civil War Politics (Unmoderated)    
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SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 11:20:40 AM
I generally tend to avoid ACW topics as it is a subject I have only passing interest, however I was drawn to this subject as it concerns "legacy" and dealing with the past. Two themes that feature in N Irish conflict resolution and peace process.

As I understand it- and please do clarify - up to four memorials commemorating a Confederate theme or war commander/political leader are being demolished.

Perhaps the most contentious is/was the Liberty Monument. I last visited The Big Easy in 08 and noted an additional plaque honouring (English spelling) "Americans on both side". I understand this was added in the 1990s? In its present form it seemed acceptable to all.

Other memorials under threat include to eminent commanders Robert E Lee and PGT Beauregard as well as CSA President J Davis.

How does this destruction of memorials sit with those of you who really know the ACW as an historical theme?
Do we need replacement memorials that record the gallantry of the Confederacy and those who died for their respective states, yet at the same time qualifies this with condemnation of slavery and white supremacy ?


Gregory C. White
Canton, GA, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 174

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 11:34:26 AM
As far as I know, the Confederate monuments are not being "demolished", but being relocated, possibly to a cemetery.

In 21st century America anything pertaining to the Confederacy is automatically linked to slavery and white supremacy; so replacement monuments specifically recording the gallantry of the Confederacy probably would not go over too well.

The whitewashing of American history also extends to the various founding fathers, especially those that owned slaves, persecuted Native peoples, etc.


---------------
"I do not believe that any man can adequately appreciate the world of to-day unless he has some knowledge of...[and] some feeling for...the history of the world of the past." Theodore Roosevelt

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 12:16:16 PM
Perhaps someone could explain what is contentious in each of these monuments for those of us who do not understand fully.

Liberty Place Monument



The other 3 are monuments to central figures in the civil war.

Jefferson Davis

Robert E. Lee

PGT Beauregard

While it may seem obvious to an outsider that these three men wanted to perpetuate a culture that subjugated people from some race, there may be sound reasons why others would want to preserve these statues.

I will add that In Nova Scotia and in Prince Edward Island there are calls to remove all references to General Cornwallis. There are people who want his statue in Halifax removed and taken into the fort, the Citadel, out of sight.

Cornwallis called for the killing of the indigenous people, the Mi'kmaq and their descendants are offended by anything that honours Cornwallis.


If these statues in New Orleans do not represent white supremacy, then what do they represent? I'm quite serious and I am not trying to make a statement with that query.

Cheers,

George

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 12:17:34 PM

Quote:
As far as I know, the Confederate monuments are not being "demolished", but being relocated, possibly to a cemetery.

In 21st century America anything pertaining to the Confederacy is automatically linked to slavery and white supremacy; so replacement monuments specifically recording the gallantry of the Confederacy probably would not go over too well.

The whitewashing of American history also extends to the various founding fathers, especially those that owned slaves, persecuted Native peoples, etc.


--Gregory C. White
and

Thanks for this Gregory- relocation of monuments seems to be a PC thing. I recall when working in Jackson Tn, the Tennessee Heritage Protect Act was made state law. Memphis wanted to shift Nathan Bedford somewhere.

I am an ex-combatant from the Northern Irish troubles and have no issues recognising and respecting the valour and selfless sacrifice of my former enemies. The reunions of Gettysburgh - in particular 1888 - specifically recorded and acknowledged the gallantry of both sides.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 12:31:46 PM
The "Confederate" battle in question took place in 1891, protesting the state's biracial police force.

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 553

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 1:20:01 PM
OpanaPointer,

The "Confederate" battle in question took place in 1891, protesting the state's biracial police force.

Could you explain what you mean by this? I mean Lee and Davis were both dead by 1891 and I think maybe PGTB was also.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 1:29:28 PM

Quote:
OpanaPointer,

The "Confederate" battle in question took place in 1891, protesting the state's biracial police force.

Could you explain what you mean by this? I mean Lee and Davis were both dead by 1891 and I think maybe PGTB was also.
--John R. Price

I was speaking specifically of the one "war" memorial. I didn't save the page I read about it on.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 1:30:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:
OpanaPointer,

The "Confederate" battle in question took place in 1891, protesting the state's biracial police force.

Could you explain what you mean by this? I mean Lee and Davis were both dead by 1891 and I think maybe PGTB was also.
--John R. Price

I was speaking specifically of the one "war" memorial. I didn't save the page I read about it on.
--OpanaPointer

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/new-orleans-confederate-statues/

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 553

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 2:23:48 PM
OpananPointer,

OK but the specific battle wasn't in 1891 the monument was erected in 1891 and the battle I believe happened in 1866 at the start of Reconstruction when anybody with any connection to the Confederacy was denied elected office, political appointment, state or local government jobs or membership in the state militia. The article is being a little misleading and leaving out context and a lot of information. On the other hand I can understand and agree with its removal for the most part if that is what it is a monument of but the others not so much.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 4:33:10 PM

Thanks for the correction. I do agree that the cases have different degrees of validity with regard to the importance to the different camps.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 5:30:45 PM
What was the Crescent City White League? Who was in it and what were their goals?

I understand that they were upset and attacked the police but I don't know why?


And it is even more difficult to understand what the monument was commemorating.

It sounds as though this white league attacked the legal municipal and state authority. Why was that praised with a monument?

Was the government corrupt or illegally in power?


BTW is there still a Crescent City White League?


Cheers,

George

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 5:34:14 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liberty_Place

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 5:58:49 PM

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liberty_Place
--OpanaPointer


Any opinions, views or comments OP?


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 6:01:35 PM
I'm reluctant to comment because my Y-donor was a Kluxer and I have very strong opinions about that kind of shit.

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 553

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 6:27:15 PM
OpanaPointer,

Sorry I thought it was for a earlier confrontation in New Orleans centered more around the legislature and the then State House.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/24/2017 6:39:48 PM
Lots to learn about Reconstruction, a period mostly skipped over in schools these days.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2954

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/25/2017 9:35:00 PM
They also should take down the Gen. Andrew Jackson statue in Jackson Square!

After all he did to harm the Native Americans, just listen to David Duke who is running for Senate!

[Read More]
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 553

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/25/2017 10:26:28 PM
Dave didn't the Iroqouis call Washington the "destroyer of villages" or something like that? Who's going to be left politically correct enough for a monument?

P. S. Duke is defending the Jackson monument
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2954

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/26/2017 3:00:52 PM
Hi John,

It does sound like It was Dukes view, but I was only pointing it out,

I didn't mean that Duke wanted the Jackson statue removed.

Jackson Square is a very important part of Nawlens!

Also that "Read More" leads to other clips on the subject!

Go French Quarter!
MD

Beignets and Chicory Coffee all the way around! another perspective,

[Read More]

[Read More]

---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Gregory C. White
Canton, GA, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 174

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 1:02:08 AM

Quote:
They also should take down the Gen. Andrew Jackson statue in Jackson Square!

After all he did to harm the Native Americans, just listen to David Duke who is running for Senate!

[Read More]
--Michigan Dave


Didn't Lincoln cause some harm to Native Americans? Lets remove him from the penny and $5 bill, among other things.

Without Andrew Jackson during the War of 1812 we might be subjects of the Queen today.

America's history has considerable warts and its far from pretty. We all don't share the same heroes. Those honored today
will be subject to the whims of future generations. Lets leave history alone and learn from it ! The PC movement is no
better than ISIS, or Nazi's burning books in the 1930s.
---------------
"I do not believe that any man can adequately appreciate the world of to-day unless he has some knowledge of...[and] some feeling for...the history of the world of the past." Theodore Roosevelt

scoucer
Berlin, Germany
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 1957

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 5:02:29 AM
Greg,

I can only agree. Seems to be a US problem.

A few years back a bible thumper from somewhere in the middle west (Idaho ?) turned up in Rome demanding that the Colusseum should be pulled down. He was the opinion that here the first christians were martyred and so it was an insult to all christians and to God. The Italians just patted him on the shoulder and told him to keep taking the tablets. Europe is fall of monuments/memorials. "Somebody" is going to be insulted by all of them.

Trevor
---------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie

Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 8:21:46 AM

Quote:
Without Andrew Jackson during the War of 1812 we might be subjects of the Queen today.


Tongue in cheek comment GregoryC.White???

The peace treaty had been ratified before the Battle of New Orleans and certainly the Brits, while well spanked in that battle, were not defeated outright.

They hopped on their ships and immediately seized Fort Bowyer.

US ports up and down the eastern and southern coasts were potential targets. Even the seige of Baltimore was called off by the Brits because they didn't think that it was worth the effort.

Kind of difficult to accept for the country that started an unnecessary war by invading the British colonies like mine, now Ontario, I know.


But to the topic which is the removal of statues and symbols of another time and place because they offend people today, I confess to some ambivalence.

Canada would not be Canada without the political manoeuvring of Sir John A. Macdonald, our first Prime Minister. But as we try to reconcile today with our First Nations people over attempts to destroy their cultures, we are reminded by them that Macdonald had hoped to assimilate them and to convert them from savages to good Canadians.

Black Canadians are determined to denigrate the efforts of old white men to create a country in the 19th century. Blacks came here for freedom but that doesn't mean that they were respected and treated as white people were.

Mi'kmak First Nations on our east coast want all statues and references to Gov. Cornwallis of Nova Scotia to be removed because he offered a bounty for each Mi'kmak killed.

So statues and pictures on paper money are problematic for these people that I mentioned.

On the other hand despite their pale skin, great things were accomplished in this country by these people.

I don't have a solution but I will say that we are not plagued by the after effects of centuries of exploitation of one race of people as you are in the US.

That makes the problem of reconciliation much more difficult.

My feeling is that statues should stay but signage by included to balance the narrative on the people or events that the statue commemorates.

Just recently the Canadian government announced a change to the face that would appear on our $10 bill. Viola Desmond was a black woman and business women from Nova Scotia who challenged the segregated seating arrangements in a movie theatre. I'm sure that Americans know nothing about her but she challenged the status quo several years before Rosa Parks in the US.

So she becomes the first black Canadian and the first woman to appear on any of our banknotes.

Ironically, she bumps PM Sir John A. Macdonald from the ten, where he has been since 1971.

Another famous Canadian will be chosen to appear on the five. That means that PM Wilfred Laurier will be bumped up to another bill.

Sir John will be bumped up to a higher denomination note, likely the $50.

Who are the losers? Well PM Robert Borden who led this country through WW1 is gone.

And it likely means that William Lyon Mackenzie King is gone as well. He was the longest serving PM in our history and led the country through WW2.

It's a sign of the times.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2954

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 9:20:41 AM
George,

Thanks for the Social Canadian History update! I agree that Historical Memorials shouldn't be removed because of political correctness!

History is after all History, & you can't sugar coat it!
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 10:26:12 AM

Quote:
George,

Thanks for the Social Canadian History update! I agree that Historical Memorials shouldn't be removed because of political correctness!

History is after all History, & you can't sugar coat it!
Dave
--Michigan Dave


Yes but if there are Canadians who see the person so honoured as a symbol of past oppression, how then do we show that we now understand that PM Macdonald, the leader of the Fathers of Confederation, also had little respect for First Nations?

What do you folks do about Andrew Jackson who some say engaged in what we now call ethnic cleansing and yet was seen as a war hero?

It's hard to know what to do exactly.


Cheers,

George



morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1288

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 1:21:09 PM
Greg, I can go one better. The white militia that fought an insurrection against the government in NO...were all Democrats. Hell, let`s not just stop tearing down a memorial to the battle the white league fought...let`s ban the Democrat Party that was the party of slavery, of segregation.

"Oh," the leftist Taliban says, "Parties change over time...it`s not like that now in the Democrat Party." Well, that memorial had a plaque placed there many years ago that said the community no longer supports those same views....didn`t matter to the leftist Taliban did it?

It was a heard of Democrats who fought a Republican, James Longstreet along Canal Street...that`s one reason Longstreet`s rep was destroyed by so many of his fellow Southerners...he dared lead some black constabulary against the White Citizen`s League.

So, the left-wing Taliban tries to destroy history. As I said when they came after the confederate flag...you can make the same arguments about the US flag.

So, why not tear down the statues to Tecumseh Sherman who famously said all a black troop is good for is stoppin` a rebel bullet...and a bag of sand even better? Or allowed hundreds of blacks to drown by removing a bridge after his army had passed because he didn`t want to be burdened by them anymore.

There is probably no culture, race, or group in world history that is innocent. That is why the Arikara fought with such hate the Sioux, because the American Indians, themselves victims of "manifest destiny," also ran each other off of the land, committed atrocities against other tribes...and engaged in the kind of tribal animus that others had for different races. Hell, Bloody Knife had seen his family massacred by the Sioux, he and his mother taken captive by them...but he spent a life as a small child of constant discrimination, sometimes bordering on brutality...until he got the hell out and spent the rest of his days trying to kill as many Sioux as he could.

So let`s destroy our history...but if we are honest and not hypocrites, we will come to understand we won`t have any history left.

Or we can stand up to the leftist Taliban..and demand that our history is a part of our past...warts and all...and that it is not bad, but healthy to see where we once were and where we have come as a people. It`s why the framers set up our amendment process so that, even if an amendment is repealed, it still stays in the record. It is a way of reminding us what mistakes we have made...and that mistakes can be amended.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2954

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 7:15:52 PM
Most of the Democrats or those from the American left, they hate the Taliban as much as the right-wing Republicans!

Let's unite our citizens on common ground not polarize them! It's great when we don't look at things one sided!

Neither side is always right! Or should we have only 1 party & get rid of our current political system??

What's up with leftist Taliban? In countries with the Taliban, it could also be Rightist Taliban!

All Americans both parties hate the Taliban! I know no real Americans want to be seen as narrow minded, & divided!?

[Read More]

United we stand!
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1288

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 4/27/2017 8:55:19 PM
Dave, take a look at the video you posted. That image of Mt. Rushmore is a perfect example of what I`m talking about. To you, and I and Charlie Daniels (probably) it`s a patriotic tribute to some of our past Presidents, forged into the rock face of a beautiful National Park. To the Sioux, it is a blasphemy, a desecration of a native spirit site with giant faces of some men who made war on the American Indian.

Both sides can claim they are right. Both sides can learn from one another and acknowledge their respective viewpoints.

But, let the American Indians dynamite the thing out of existence....who unites as one? Half the country may rise up and say "good show"...and the other half will rise up in indignant anger.

You don`t unite anybody by destroying our history. That`s what the Taliban does in terratory they claim. They blow up ancient art and statuary, destroying eons of history that is lost.

And that is what is going on here.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3503

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/1/2017 2:53:05 AM
So let`s destroy our history...but if we are honest and not hypocrites, we will come to understand we won`t have any history left.

 A people without history or tradition are more easily controlled. The same occurs when the bonds of family are weakened ... an effect that has undermined American society for decades.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 405
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/20/2017 9:34:31 AM
They are relocating the monuments in New Orleans, not destroying them. If they symbolize hate and racism to the majority (although they don't symbolize that to me) then go ahead, relocate them to a museum along with the Confederate flag.
---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1288

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/20/2017 12:02:14 PM
I saw where the idiot mayor of New Orleans said that the confederate memorials had "caused a mass migration away from the city."

No, that mass migration was the result of idiots like the current mayor of New Orleans, or former Mayor Ray Nagin who, despite knowing that many thousands of people live in what amounts to a bowl below sea level...did nothing to develop a workable plan for evacuation in the event of a levee failure. The actions of the racist mayor at the time who had buses in place...but no plan for the drivers of those buses to be in place...and sent people to the Super dome..without preparations for food and water there...then blamed everybody else.

Oh, and the idiot voters of New Orleans re-elected the racist A-hole. But, what the hell.."Nalens is goin` a be a chocolate city again."

I met many people from New Orleans who had to leave and come to Atlanta and it`s suburbs because of the flooding of New Orleans. They weren`t fleeing confederate memorials...they were fleeing the results from incompetence, stupidity, corruption, and total irresponsibility of the people they have been electing for years.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

John Gross
Desert Southwest, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 62

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/20/2017 10:01:17 PM



The Founding Fathers will be next. Jackson is already slated to be bumped to the back of the $20 bill in 2020.



Oh yeah, and let's not forget Columbus Day. You know him, the guy who opened the New World to those evil
Europeans who brought slavery to America, killed the Indians, slaughtered the buffalo, polluted the water,
destroyed the land......



More cities are recognizing Native Americans on Columbus Day

"The campaigns say the federal holiday honoring Christopher Columbus — and the parades and pageantry
accompanying it — overlook a painful history of colonialism, enslavement, discrimination and land grabs
that followed the Italian explorer’s 1492 arrival in the Americas."


[Read More]

---------------
My areas of expertise are firearms and Latin females. Not necessarily in that order.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2954

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 8:55:37 AM

Quote:
They are relocating the monuments in New Orleans, not destroying them. If they symbolize hate and racism to the majority (although they don't symbolize that to me) then go ahead, relocate them to a museum along with the Confederate flag.
--littlepowell


lp,

I agree,
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 12:38:33 PM
I think that I would leave the statues, but also include an explanatory plaque that lets everyone realize that his person wasn't always a hero or not a hero at all to people who suffered while this person made his mark.

That's what I hope will happen on our east coast with the statues that commemorate the lives of men like Edward Cornwallis.

But what could you put on a plaque that would be acceptable to everyone?

EDWARD CORNWALLIS

Founder of Halifax
Pacifier of Scots in 1745
Ethnic Cleanser of the Mi'kmaq


You get the idea. The plaque would have to be acceptable to all.


It's pretty hard to ask black people in the US or Mi'kmaq First Nations in Canada to walk by these statues without feeling resentment for those who look fondly at them. They have a right to a balanced interpretation, a more accurate interpretation of historical events and people.

Cheers,

George

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 519

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 3:11:56 PM

Quote:



--John Gross

The revisionism started in 1865. "We didn't lose!"

John Gross
Desert Southwest, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 62

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 9:24:49 PM
I wonder how much it's costing the taxpayers to remove those statues? I'll bet this crew
could do it for a lot less. Heck, they might even do it for free!










---------------
My areas of expertise are firearms and Latin females. Not necessarily in that order.

John Gross
Desert Southwest, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 62

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 9:49:26 PM
Ok then, let's add this to the Lincoln Memorial.

"While I was at the hotel to-day, an elderly gentleman called upon me to
know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between
the negroes and white people. [Great Laughter.] While I had not proposed to
myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was
asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in
regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of
bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and
black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making
voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to
intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there
is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe
will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and
political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain
together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as
any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."


Abraham Lincoln, September 18, 1858.

[Read More]
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My areas of expertise are firearms and Latin females. Not necessarily in that order.

John Gross
Desert Southwest, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 62

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/21/2017 10:10:21 PM
Letter to President Dwight David Eisenhower from Doctor Leon W. Scott, August 1, 1960.

“Dear Mr. President:
At the Republican Convention I heard you mention that you have the pictures of four (4)
great Americans in your office, and that included in these is a picture of Robert E. Lee.
I do not understand how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated,
and why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.
The most outstanding thing that Robert E. Lee did was to devote his best efforts to the
destruction of the United States Government, and I am sure that you do not say that a
person who tries to destroy our Government is worthy of being hailed as one of our heroes.
Will you please tell me just why you hold him in such high esteem?
Sincerely yours,
Leon W. Scott”



President Eisenhowser's response.

"August 9, 1960
Dear Dr. Scott:
Respecting your August 1 inquiry calling attention to my often expressed admiration for
General Robert E. Lee, I would say, first, that we need to understand that at the time of
the War Between the States the issue of Secession had remained unresolved for more than
70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing and unquestioned loyalty, both North
and South, had disagreed over this issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution
was adopted.

General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our
Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865
was still an arguable question in America; he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers
and men, forbearing with captured enemies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous
in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he
remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his belief in God. Taken altogether,
he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be
unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American
youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land
as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation’s wounds once the bitter
struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened
and our love of freedom sustained.

Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall.

Sincerely,
Dwight D. Eisenhower"

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My areas of expertise are firearms and Latin females. Not necessarily in that order.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1288

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/22/2017 7:02:03 PM
It was done in the dead of night...and by people hiding their identity....just like cowards.
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5681

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/22/2017 8:02:38 PM

Quote:
It was done in the dead of night...and by people hiding their identity....just like cowards.
--morris crumley


Perhaps they didn't want to expose themselves or their families to physical retaliation.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1288

Re: Confederate 'war' memorials coming down in New Orleans
Posted on: 5/22/2017 8:41:34 PM
Cowards.
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

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