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 American Civil War Politics (Unmoderated)    
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 6:55:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Did the KKK sponsor Lincoln's image on our money?
--OpanaPointer


If we are judging people of the 19st century with 21st century social values and moralities,
it would appear so.



--Gregory C. White

No, they didn't. Creating arguments out of thin air is just lame.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1188

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 10:20:51 AM
We just celebrated a holiday that was the concept of the founder of AFLCIO...who was a Marxist-racist. He didn`t want black members, Jewish members.

When does the left actually start looking at it`s own history, and start applying the same standards to themselves that they wish to apply to others?

I already mentioned Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, and Justice Brandeis who helped determine in Buck V Bell that forced sterilization of the "feeble-minded" and the poor...and the black, was the law of the land.

The Nazi "sterilization laws" and race-based eugenics were based upon the work of American progressives. They said so at the time. They even tried to use it as a defense of their actions during Nuremberg.

It even appears in the movie "Judgement at Nuremberg."

So, if the American leftist-progressive movement of today wants to prescribe the cultural attitudes of today to obliterate history...they need to take a long, hard, honest look at themselves first. Start tearing down their own icons. Their own heroes.
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 11:10:12 AM
You are creating an side issue there. The problem with the Confederate monuments is they are on Federal property. That's actually in the subject line, BTW.

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 389
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 11:12:50 AM
I still standby my stance that the Confederate monuments should be kept on battlefields and museums. Although I agree wholeheartedly with Morris and others that most people have been taught the PC version of history, and we can't blame them for that.. If the monuments symbolize hate for a sector of people, then they shouldn't be in their town squares for them to walk by every day. They should be in battlefields and museums so people can choose to go to learn the real, non PC version of history and learn about the men that were defending their country.
---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 11:53:10 AM
Would you approve of spending tax dollars to maintain a 200 foot tall statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster alongside the "National" Cathedral in Washington? Or do you think your money would be better spent elsewhere?

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1188

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 12:12:55 PM
Well, since the only former President whose carcass is buried in the National Cathedral is the KKK- racist- white- supremacist Democrat progressive who re-segregated the US Government, Woodrow Wilson, then a spaghetti monster wouldn`t damage the reputation of the place too much. Especially given today`s standards.

Personally, I`m willing to "get past' it being the depository of his white-racist remains ...but then...I`m not the problem.
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 12:14:55 PM
Clumsy dodge.

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 389
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:15:05 PM

Quote:
Would you approve of spending tax dollars to maintain a 200 foot tall statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster alongside the "National" Cathedral in Washington? Or do you think your money would be better spent elsewhere?
--OpanaPointer


No. Not sure how that is relevant.
---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 462

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:23:31 PM
Littlepowell,

I still standby my stance that the Confederate monuments should be kept on battlefields and museums. Although I agree wholeheartedly with Morris and others that most people have been taught the PC version of history, and we can't blame them for that.. If the monuments symbolize hate for a sector of people, then they shouldn't be in their town squares for them to walk by every day. They should be in battlefields and museums so people can choose to go to learn the real, non PC version of history and learn about the men that were defending their country.
---------------

The problem is that the battlefields and many of the museums are either on federal property or funded by federal tax dollars or both. The argument being used is they don't want them on "public" property or the upkeep paid for with tax dollars of any kind.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:25:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Would you approve of spending tax dollars to maintain a 200 foot tall statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster alongside the "National" Cathedral in Washington? Or do you think your money would be better spent elsewhere?
--OpanaPointer


No. Not sure how that is relevant.
--littlepowell

I am against special interest things like the Confederate/KKK "monuments" being maintained on taxpayers' dollars.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:26:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Did the KKK sponsor Lincoln's image on our money?
--OpanaPointer


If we are judging people of the 19st century with 21st century social values and moralities,
it would appear so.



--Gregory C. White

That made no sense.

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 389
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:26:24 PM

Quote:

The problem is that the battlefields and many of the museums are either on federal property or funded by federal tax dollars or both. The argument being used is they don't want them on "public" property or the upkeep paid for with tax dollars of any kind.
--John R. Price


I understand and that's why I'm against this bill. I was just reiterating my stance on the issue overall. The monuments shouldn't be on public property, such as out front of a state house, or in a public park. But they should be allowed in federally funded museums and battlefields.
---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 1:29:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The problem is that the battlefields and many of the museums are either on federal property or funded by federal tax dollars or both. The argument being used is they don't want them on "public" property or the upkeep paid for with tax dollars of any kind.
--John R. Price


I understand and that's why I'm against this bill. I was just reiterating my stance on the issue overall. The monuments shouldn't be on public property, such as out front of a state house, or in a public park. But they should be allowed in federally funded museums and battlefields.
--littlepowell

KKK inspired and funded monuments are okay?

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 389
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 2:19:04 PM

Quote:

KKK inspired and funded monuments are okay?
--OpanaPointer


No, but I'm not reflecting on who originally constructed/dedicated a monument. If we did that, I'm sure we could dig up some pretty horrible people that originally funded/constructed monuments from both Union and Confederate.

---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2752

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 2:19:34 PM

Quote:
Would you approve of spending tax dollars to maintain a 200 foot tall statue of the Flying Spaghetti Monster alongside the "National" Cathedral in Washington? Or do you think your money would be better spent elsewhere?
--OpanaPointer



Only if they put up a pizzaman statue too!
fair is fair!
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 2:31:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

KKK inspired and funded monuments are okay?
--OpanaPointer


No, but I'm not reflecting on who originally constructed/dedicated a monument. If we did that, I'm sure we could dig up some pretty horrible people that originally funded/constructed monuments from both Union and Confederate.


--littlepowell

And that would be fine? Why do people skate around the point that the KLU KLUX KLAN promoted these statues as propaganda pieces for their oppression of blacks?

littlepowell
SC, USA
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant


Posts: 389
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/
Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 2:44:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

KKK inspired and funded monuments are okay?
--OpanaPointer


No, but I'm not reflecting on who originally constructed/dedicated a monument. If we did that, I'm sure we could dig up some pretty horrible people that originally funded/constructed monuments from both Union and Confederate.


--littlepowell

And that would be fine? Why do people skate around the point that the KLU KLUX KLAN promoted these statues as propaganda pieces for their oppression of blacks?
--OpanaPointer


I'm not skating around anything. Does it say it anywhere on the monuments at Gettysburg (for example) that "all blacks must be oppressed, the south will rise again, blah blah blah." No they are remembering the soldiers that fought and died fighting for their country. If you don't believe me, check out this excellent site:

[Read More]

---------------
http://www.scourgeofwar.com/ - Historical tactical combat games for PC.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5294

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 3:59:05 PM
Then those monuments should have been in the cemeteries or perhaps on cenotaphs to commemorate those who fought and died.

It is my understanding that the first monuments were erected in towns and cities in just such a manner.

The monuments that appeared in front of court houses and legislative buildings came later and were sponsored by groups like the KKK and the United Daughters of the Confederation as propaganda ploys to establish the revisionist view that the war was not about slavery at all.

It was important to establish that the south was still a place of white rule.

Explain the existence of monuments to Confederates in places like Seattle or on the wall of the Hudson's Bay flagship store in Montréal to commemorate the fact that Jefferson Davis lived in that city for a time after the war. The plaque was donated by the Daughters of the Confederation. To what purpose?

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class
Posts: 465

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/5/2017 4:06:38 PM
The message was spread when the monuments went up. December 24th, 1965, a special day for the KKK, I eavesdropped on a talk by the Grand Dragon of Indiana talking about how the Klan had made sure "those people" knew why the "monuments were there."

1stvermont
Vermont, VT, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 67

Re: Dems unvail bill to band Confederate monuments on all federal property
Posted on: 9/18/2017 7:00:39 PM
I posted this on the stonewall Jackson thread, thought it should go here as well.


Former Slave Votes to Erect Confederate Monument

African American and former slave John Harris was a republican in 1870 from Mississippi house of representatives. According to the journal of house of representatives of Mississippi He voted for S.B no 25

“an act for the benefit of the confederate monument now in process of erection on the capital square Jackson, Mississippi”

All six black house of representatives voted in favor of the bill. Harri gave a speech in favor recorded in the newspaper the daily Clarioledger, Jackson Miss feb 23, 1890

""Mr. Speaker! I have arisen here in my place to offer a few words on the bill. I have come from a sick bed...Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come. But, Sir, I could not rest quietly in my room without...contributing...a few remarks of my own.
"I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentleman from Marshall County. I am sorry that any son of a soldier should go on record as opposed to the erection of a monument in honor of the brave dead. And, Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines and in the Seven Days' fighting around Richmond, the battlefield covered with the mangled forms of those who fought for their country and for their country's honor, he would not have made that speech.

"When the news came that the South had been invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed, and they made no requests for monuments. But they died, and their virtues should be remembered. Sir, I went with them. I too, wore the gray, the same color my master wore. We stayed four long years, and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet.

"I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions. When my mother died I was a boy. Who, Sir, then acted the part of a mother to the orphaned slave boy, but my 'old missus'? Were she living now, or could speak to me from those high realms where are gathered the sainted dead, she would tell me to vote for this bill. And, Sir, I shall vote for it. I want it known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of the bill to erect a monument in honor of the Confederate dead."
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“The CSA congress can have no such power over states officers. The state governments are an essential part of the political system, upon the separate and independent sovereignty of the states the foundation of the confederacy”
-1864 Virginia supremeCourt

 American Civil War Politics (Unmoderated)    
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