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The current time is: 12/16/2017 7:42:33 AM
 General Military History    
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Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1116

25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 4:01:43 AM
May 19 marked a significant anniversary for the RAAF; 25 years since the last time a Hornet crashed with the total loss of the aircraft. The pilot and a DSTO scientist passenger were both killed.

We've lost 4 Hornets since 1984, out of 75 ordered, and none in combat despite several deployments.
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Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 5:27:17 AM
The F/A-18A/B Hornet is operated by:
Number 3 Squadron, RAAF Base Williamtown
Number 75 Squadron, RAAF Base Tindal
Number 77 Squadron, RAAF Base Williamtown
Number 2 Operational Conversion Unit, RAAF Base Williamtown for pilot training.

The Hornet is capable of air-to-air refuelling from the KC-30A Multi-Role Tanker Transport.

Air Force’s 71 F/A-18A/B Hornets will be replaced with 72 fifth-generation F-35A Lightning II aircraft from 2018.

The Hornet was developed for the US Navy and Marine Corps and has been a very successful aircraft. It is also used by Canada, Finland, Kuwait, Malaysia, Spain and Switzerland.

They have had a good run Riain

Regards

Jim
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Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5730

Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 6:27:43 AM
Since taking delivery of the Hornets in 1982, the RCAF has lost 20. 11 pilots have been killed.

None of the losses were in combat though the RCAF has deployed on several missions internationally.

Only 77 planes are left and the airframes have logged a huge number of hours.

I believe that the original order was 98 single seaters and 40 dual seat.

There have been at least two modifications and the CF-18 can now carry the same armament as a Super Hornet.

These planes are going to have to last a while longer.

As a stop gap measure until a new fighter plane is procured, there is supposed to be a purchase of new Super Hornets from Boeing.


However, just last week, Boeing charged that the Bombardier company of Canada, manufacturers of a mid-sized airliner, is unfairly subsidized by the Canadian and Quebec governments. Boeing wants huge tariffs applied because it doesn't want another competitor competing with it.

Boeing has already admitted that the Bombardier C-series is a plane that it doesn't compete with right now.

Boeing of course is one of the most heavily subsidized companies in the USA. And Bombardier has received bail-out money from the governments because if it goes down, thousands of jobs go with it.

The Canadian government pounced and reminded Boeing that the purchase of the Super Hornets was in jeopardy.


Meanwhile we still don't know whether we can afford Lockheed-Martin's F-35.

There is still a lot of discussion about whether this sophisticated plane is really what we need to defend the skies over Canada.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1116

Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 4:00:32 PM
Why so many crashes George, if you were similar to us you should have lost about 7 aircraft. Is it the Canadian weather?

BTW you have to get the F35, while the Super Hornet, Typhoon and Rafale are nice they are 4.5 generation aircraft and not in the same league as the F35 which is already having its peripheral missions expanded by the Army and RAN because it can do so much.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5730

Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 5:01:54 PM
I thought that you may ask that question and so far I cannot say why.

Riain when you quoted the low number for the Australian air force, my ears perked up because I knew that we had had a lot more than that.

In fact, the RCAF says that the 19 crashes since receiving most of them in 1983 is testament to the reliability of the aircraft.

I don't know whether they are blowing smoke or not.

The weather is a factor at times.

One pilot lost his life at the Cold Lake base in Alberta in 2010 while trying to bring his plane down in a driving snow storm.

Also in 2010, there was mechanical failure in a CF-18 and piston got stuck in an engine while the pilot was practising for an air show.

The last death was in 2016 when a 10 year vet crashed at Cold Lake. The investigative report hasn't come out yet, I don't think

But the pilot did not eject, nor did he call for help. There is no reason to believe that he was mentally unstable.

This is the preliminary update:

[Read More]

EDIT:

OK I found a report in the Canadian Military Journal that analyzed training methods, among other things.

If you scroll down, there is a chart that gives the primary reason for CF-18 crashes.

[Read More]

Right now, I believe that there are complaints that the pilots are not getting enough practice time.


Cheers,

George

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1116

Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 5:05:23 PM
Our 92 crash was 'controlled flight into terrain', which is surprisingly common. I wonder how RCAF would go if you factored out Canadian weather.
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Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5730

Re: 25 year anniversary.
Posted on: 5/23/2017 7:57:30 PM
Riain, I responded to your last post and poof, it's gone. This has been happening quite a bit.

I want you to know that it was brilliant of course.


To sum it up:

Some of the CFIT were weather related but not all.

Some had to do with spatial awareness, so pilot error, if I understand the article that I posted above.

Most of the crashes occurred in the first 10 years, so up to 1993. And RCAF pilots were crashing at a much higher rate than USN or USMC pilots who flew the F-18.

The government purchased the CF-18's as cheaply as they could. That means directly from McDonnell-Douglas and taking only the basic training package that they offered.

The other way would have been to buy through the US military but then you are into a whole bunch of fees for doctrinal and tactical information.

The government hoped that the informal relationship between the USN and the RCAF would result in the Canadian pilots picking up what they needed to know.

Clearly that cost saving measure was flawed although the price negotiated with M-D allowed Canada to buy more planes than originally planned.

But there are other factors that led to more RCAF crashes. RCAF pilots trained far more often on low level flights than did counterparts in the USN.

I suppose that these are inherently more dangerous than flying in the wild blue yonder.


So of the first 13 crashes:

-only 1 due to mechanical error

-2 lost to a midair collision while on flight manoeuvres

-the remaining 10 were the result of lack of situational awareness. So CFIT.
That could be caused by high g forces causing loss of consciousness, or operations in low light conditions, or other weather conditions that could confuse the pilot.

Only one of the CFIT crashes occurred in clear conditions. The rest happened in low cloud or cloudy conditions.

You don't always get the best flying conditions in Canada at certain times of the year but the RCAF cannot claim that all the accidents are weather related.


Cheers,

George


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