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azita
Posts: 250
 | | Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 3/19/2010 2:31:58 PM | May i ask your opinions on this:-
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'The battalion was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them,' said Gen Sheehan.
I understood that there were actually 600 Dutch troops in the UN safe haven of Srebrenica, just how "lightly armed" were they?
Seems "unusual" that a battalion could be so easily taken captive
Any thoughts you care to share on this?
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| redcoat
Stockport, UK
Posts: 516
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 3/19/2010 3:41:30 PM | Its homophobic nonsense.
The battalion failed to act because its orders were contradictory and confusing, and its officers failed to show proper leadership.
There is no evidence that the fact that a very small number of its soldiers were openly gay had anything to do with it.
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| Wazza
Sydney , Australia
Posts: 231
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 3/19/2010 4:13:38 PM | I agree with redcoat, but would add they did post a very gay song parody on youtube roughly around that time.
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| azita
Posts: 250
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 3/20/2010 9:55:05 AM | It seems a strange claim, Perhaps Gen. Sheehan missed the lecture on the Spartans when he was at the National War College. being "gay" didn't seem to affect their fighting skills much. Some might say it even improved it!
It does seem that the General was using this as an example to stop the US allowing openly gay personnel.
(why is the USA so against this?)
As i looked more into this, i found this comment on the BBC web site
He argued that since the end of the Cold War, European militaries had changed and he concluded "there was no longer a need for an active combat capability".
Well i have to say that this really has me confused.
ISAF has (approx) 3,000 Italian, 4,000 Germans, 4,000 French, 10,000 British. well the list is extensive, but these 4 nations at certainly seem to still have a "combat capability"
Anyway I suspect it will be a storm in a tea cup.
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| azita
Posts: 250
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/11/2010 7:17:59 AM | 15 years since the massacre at Srebrenica, where 8,000 Muslims were slaughtered.
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Some members here have expressed so much contempt and hatred toward Muslims in general, I wonder how they feel about this event?
Is this mans fate desirable for all Muslims?
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| George
Haliburton, ON, Canada
Posts: 1349
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/11/2010 8:10:09 AM | Good morning Azita,
I think that you know the answer to your question. The world sent troops to that area to prevent the sort of slaughter that occurred. That they failed at times is obvious. Are you suggesting that the international force (UNPROFOR, I think) favoured the non-Muslim sides? I hope not. I think that when international forces enter a foreign country, they place restrictions upon themselves which hamper the efforts of the soldiers.
The rules of engagement hamper interdiction efforts in all of these international efforts. Look at Rwanda and now Afghanistan. Even armed troops must stand by because they have restricted orders to engage. In Afghanistan, there are a host of countries present but only a small few are engaged at the sharp end. Some can't even go out at night.
I can give a small example. A Canadian group, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry stood as a buffer force between the Croatian army and a Serbian village. A battle ensued which was not supposed to happen. The Croatians were moving in to ethnically cleanse the Serb village. The Canadians were watching but had not been fired upon, hence they were not supposed to engage.
The officer on the ground had seen enough and in violation of orders, engaged the Croats and saved this village. This battle, known as the Battle of the Medak pocket was hushed up in Canada because Canada had committed an act in violation of the ROA. No commendations, no medals.
I can tell you that Canadian soldiers were sick to their stomachs at what they saw over there and it mattered not whether Christian or Muslims were being slaughtered.
Most of the modern world wants peace for all and truthfully cannot understand the anger and tactics of Muslim terrorist groups. The western nations do not fight wars in defence of a religion and are perplexed at those who would. But, only the insane would advocate elimination of billions of innocent Muslims.
Cheers,
George
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| azita
Posts: 250
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/11/2010 9:31:52 AM | George, you are as always balanced, accurate and fair in your comments.
Yet there are members here who TRULY believe:-
Quote: And here I thought their big engineering / scientific advance of the last 30 years was the suicide bomb vest....
--T. A. Gardner
Quote:I say carpet bomb the place day and night. Don't rebuild nothing. Leave them in the stone age. --Johnny McDowell
Quote: Yes, the Muslim world is very dangerous --dt509er
I just wondered what they thought about the massacre of INNOCENT Muslims by "Christian" butchers, are the as "outraged" as when Innocent "Christians" are massacred by Islamic terrorists?
Or perhaps my use of the term "Christian butchers" in this context causes some anger?
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| dt509er
Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 1028
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/11/2010 12:52:02 PM |
Quote:George, you are as always balanced, accurate and fair in your comments. Yet there are members here who TRULY believe:- Quote: And here I thought their big engineering / scientific advance of the last 30 years was the suicide bomb vest....
--T. A. Gardner Quote: I say carpet bomb the place day and night. Don't rebuild nothing. Leave them in the stone age. --Johnny McDowell Quote: Yes, the Muslim world is very dangerous --dt509er I just wondered what they thought about the massacre of INNOCENT Muslims by "Christian" butchers, are the as "outraged" as when Innocent "Christians" are massacred by Islamic terrorists? Or perhaps my use of the term "Christian butchers" in this context causes some anger? Azita --azita
I stand by comments that the Muslim world is dangerous, very dangerous at that. But azita, or whoever you really are, do not misrepresent my comments that I would condone the slaughter of any peoples. I recall a mortar round landing in a marketplac during the Yugoslav break-up and it was a blood-bath. The news I saw of this attack was horrible and not once did I think, ahh good got the Muslim bastards. That's not to say I did not express that thought after 9/11 when US forces were knocking the Muslim radicals around.
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'Always remember, pillage before you burn.'
Unknown Barbarian
"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..."
Diary f/German officer
“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
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| Johnny McDowell
Wichita Falls, TX, USA
Posts: 391
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/12/2010 2:55:09 PM | I'm not debating anything with a person who hides who and what they are truly about. Azita, I don't have time for your bigotry and hate. Save that crap for the people your snow-jobbing!
J.Mac.
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| azita
Posts: 250
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/12/2010 3:31:45 PM |
Quote:, I don't have time for your bigotry and hate. --Johnny McDowell
Oh perhaps i misunderstand your comments, i believed that you had set a precedent with these comments:-
Quote: IRAN:How long do we let these religious zealots cook a bomb before we turn the dogs of war loose on them?
--Johnny McDowell
Quote:I say carpet bomb the place day and night. Don't rebuild nothing. Leave them in the stone age. When they back down we'll stop bombing.--Johnny McDowell
Quote:Please that sounds like a people that sell their 7-12 year old daughters to some old pervert in a so called marriage. What a custom (sick)--Johnny McDowell
Quote:I would only get paranoid if I was on a plane setting next to you.
--Johnny McDowell
All have remained unchallenged by any other American, so it is my belief that your comments reflect the opinions of all other Americans here.
So with these forum boundary's established, i believe i have operated within them.
As for me hiding, well if it helps with the personal attacks, think of me as a Canadian, you seem to despise that nation as much as well, ever other.
I would be honoured to be considered Canadian.
Azita
BTW:
Quote:One of my very best friends is Persian (Iranian). --Johnny McDowell
Wonder what he would say to your comments?
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| George
Haliburton, ON, Canada
Posts: 1349
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/12/2010 3:32:46 PM |
Quote:I'm not debating anything with a person who hides who and what they are truly about. Azita, I don't have time for your bigotry and hate. Save that crap for the people your snow-jobbing!
J.Mac.
--Johnny McDowell
Johnny, what has been hidden? Has anyone here been asked to declare their religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation or whatever?
I don't know whether Azita is male or female or indeed, from where she writes. The name is feminine and perhaps Iranian I believe and so I go with that. But I don't know for sure. Look at the names of other posters. Many choose to cover their identity and are free to do so.
I doubt greatly that she is an operative for some government that we are supposed to hate. If she is she must be a low level operative or is being punished because I don't think that any of us here have any real influence on anything to do with politics. We bash around ideas and discuss history, for the most part.
If you don't like what she says, if it is inaccurate, then say so. Some of what she says plays on our sensitivities but does make one think.
Cheers,
George
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| redcoat
Stockport, UK
Posts: 516
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/12/2010 5:50:21 PM |
Quote:I'm not debating anything with a person who hides who and what they are truly about.
This is the internet, get used to it.
Quote: Azita, I don't have time for your bigotry and hate. Save that crap for the people your snow-jobbing!
J.Mac.
--Johnny McDowell While I realise his remarks were inflammatory, he didn't originally write the following "I say carpet bomb the place day and night. Don't rebuild nothing. Leave them in the stone age", you did !
I suggest you get your own house in order before you criticize others about bigotry and hate
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| azita
Posts: 250
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/13/2010 12:03:14 PM |
Quote:While I realise his remarks were inflammatory, --redcoat
Redcoat, do you consider that i have "gone to far" with those comments?
I welcome you honest opinion here.
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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| redcoat
Stockport, UK
Posts: 516
| | Re: Dutch Reject Claim That Srebrenica Fell Because of Gay Troops | | Posted on: 7/13/2010 6:23:45 PM |
Quote:Quote: While I realise his remarks were inflammatory, --redcoat Redcoat, do you consider that i have "gone to far" with those comments? I welcome you honest opinion here. Azita --azita
Quote:I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire,
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