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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 848
 | | Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/7/2010 7:50:57 AM | This is a offshoot of a discussion on another thread mainly between Azita and myself in which the basic question to me was do i think the US intervention in Irainian internal political affairs was justified. After doing a little more reading on the situation I have a couple of points I'd like to throw out and get reactions to from Azita and everybody else.
First from my readings I don't believe that Iran has the industrial base to produce the equipment needed to maintain the oil wells then up and running or open any new wells. Iran has zero capability to refine the oil they produce. Iran doesn't have the industrial base to maintain the internal oil transportation infastructure nor improve the infastucture that then existed. Also Iran doesn't have the oil tankers to export anymore than maybe 10% of the oil they produce. Basically put Iran can nationalize their oil industry but without a outside partner that nationalization isn't going to be of any economic benifit to anybody in Iran. Now given the worldwide economic and political situation I believe that realistically there are only three countries that can provide Iran with what they need and nationalization is designed to take control away from England which is one of the three. The US and Russia are the other two.
Second during the height of the crisis a election in Iran was called and the then communist or communist leaning prime minister declared the day after the election that he had recieved 99.9% of the vote. Given the physical imposibility with the technology then available that any more that 20% to 30% of the votes could have been counted in less than the 24 hour period between the election and the announcement what was the world to believe about the validity of the announced 99.9% result?
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
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azita
Posts: 251
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 5:50:31 AM | Must be quick, so sorry 1st post wont do you justice.
Iran had no where near the tech knowledge to run the AIOC plants, that is what the British counted on when they stopped working in response to the nationalization.
Economic blackmail, that caused huge suffering In Iran.
What the Iranians wanted was a fair deal, same as ARAMCO had with Saudi Arabia.
Iranian workers were paid very little and "kept" in appalling company accommodation.
Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh was NOT pro communism, he was against imperialism.
Time Magazine named him 1951 Man of the Year.
Azita
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 848
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 10:21:19 AM | Azita,
When you nationalize the oil fields why should the British continue working them and continue to provide the equipment and material to keep them in running order for no profit?
Nationalization of the oil fields is also economic blackmail that is going to result in economic pain and the loss of jobs to the English oil industry.
Plus I'm sorry you don't take that giant step without knowing that the British are going to stop doing the work and sending the equipment and material nor without at least engageing in initial negotiation with the available alternatives.
Being Time's Man of the Year isn't proof of political philosophy nor evidence of morality. May I remind you that Stalin won the award twice and Hitler once.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
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azita
Posts: 251
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 11:29:02 AM |
Quote:Azita,When you nationalize the oil fields
Plus I'm sorry you don't take that giant step..
--John R. Price
Who is this "you"?
Quote:Azita,provide the equipment and material to keep them in running order for no profit?
--John R. Price
Perhaps a 50 - 50 split in the profits as Aramco had agreed with Saudi?
And eventually agreed
Quote: least engageing in initial negotiation with the available alternatives.--John R. Price
Britain had refused to negotiate reasonably.
Quote:Nationalization of the oil fields is also economic blackmail
--John R. Price
True enough, a desperate move
Quote:Azita, May I remind you that Stalin won the award twice and Hitler once.--John R. Price
Do you compare them to Mosaddegh?
BTW. the International Court of Justice found in Iran's favour over the nationalization.
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 848
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 1:18:22 PM | Azita,
You is any reasonable and rational leader. The leader or leadership has to take all possibilities into consideration and plan for all possible outcomes.
You aren't answering the question I asked. The leadership knew that once they nationalize the oil fields all British workers and all British equipment and material is going to stop so that leadership is equally responsible for the end economic pain and suffering you claim was inflicted on the people of Iran.
The British stance isn't what I was talking about but the only other alternatives to the British or the US and Russia and what they would offer. There is no point unless you know that either the US or Russia is going to offer a better deal before you take the action.
That isn't the point and you know it. You offered Time's man of the year award as some sort of proof of his political philosophy and moral standing I showed neither are criteria for the award through past recipients.
Irrelevent and out of context to the questions i asked.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
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azita
Posts: 251
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 1:59:18 PM | Sorry, been translating from French today, got my Gaelic head on.
The only question i can see you ask is
Quote:was the world to believe about the validity of the announced 99.9% result? --John R. Price
Answer: NO
I suspect that Iran were only too aware that the USA were itching to move and take control of their oil, and also offer a far better deal.
Quote:The leader or leadership has to take all possibilities into consideration and plan for all possible outcomes.--John R. Price
And don`t ALL the worlds governments do such a good job at that..................
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I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true 'The empty vessel makes the greatest sound'.
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 848
| | Re: Iran 1953 | | Posted on: 4/8/2010 2:19:31 PM | Azita,
If the US was "itching to move and take control of their oil" then why even try to get rid of the prime minister and bring about a change in governments unless the prime minister is at very least leaning towards the Russians?
Those that don't, don't belong in the leadership role and usually don't last very long in a leadership role.
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
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