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 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/6/2017 3:06:58 PM
This video captures the destruction of an entire Kenyan Army company sized unit by the Al-Shabaab 'Saleh al Nabhan' battalion in El Adde, Somalia about a week and a half ago. The Kenyans had rotated in without being given any operational intel by the unit that rotated out and were caught completely bu surprise.

It illustrates well how badly equipped and trained armies in the region are to fight irregular movements like Al Shabaab.

Both the Kenyans and Ethiopians have organised their armies along European lines, with heavy cumbersome brigade structures and layered command structures, badly suited for the rapid operational tempo required to defeat Al Shabaab, Boko Haram or, for that matter, Daesh.

Warning, the video does contain some very disturbing images not suitable for everyone.

[Read More]
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/6/2017 8:33:40 PM
If they were Kenyan regulars, & not just hapless reservists, then what an utter disgrace to arms..

Shameful lack of leadership/unit cohesion, & I didn't even see any return fire from the AFVs...

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 342

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 1:52:52 AM
That's pretty awful. No sentries, bright orange tarps on all the bunkers.......... one huge mess.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1070

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 6:30:40 AM
Something is drastically wrong there; for a unit with at least 3 armoured vehicles and what appeared to be a heavy machine gun in a sandbagged position to not return fire against an attack that must have been at least double the 5 minutes of the video and that started from some distance away. Did the Kenyans even have ammo?
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 9:45:18 AM

Quote:
Something is drastically wrong there; for a unit with at least 3 armoured vehicles and what appeared to be a heavy machine gun in a sandbagged position to not return fire against an attack that must have been at least double the 5 minutes of the video and that started from some distance away. Did the Kenyans even have ammo?
--Riaindevoy

That is a very good question Riain, my suspicion as well that the ammo may have been locked in somewhere and not accessible to the troops on the ground.

They should have been able to fairly easily defend that position, but collapsed within minutes. True, it was an untried unit with no intel of the area etc, but still.
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 7:33:30 PM
Almost makes me wonder if it was a 'punishment unit' - deliberately sent out to be 'culled',
- with the secondary purpose of a 'remember the Alamo' type motivation for more adept cadres.

74 PA
Woodbridge, VA, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist
Posts: 68

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 10:31:29 PM

Quote:
This video captures the destruction of an entire Kenyan Army company sized unit by the Al-Shabaab 'Saleh al Nabhan' battalion in El Adde, Somalia about a week and a half ago. The Kenyans had rotated in without being given any operational intel by the unit that rotated out and were caught completely bu surprise.

It illustrates well how badly equipped and trained armies in the region are to fight irregular movements like Al Shabaab.

Both the Kenyans and Ethiopians have organised their armies along European lines, with heavy cumbersome brigade structures and layered command structures, badly suited for the rapid operational tempo required to defeat Al Shabaab, Boko Haram or, for that matter, Daesh.

Warning, the video does contain some very disturbing images not suitable for everyone.

[Read More]
--kaii


This attack took place over a year ago and the film was distributed as Al Shabaab propaganda. As such, I would not necessarily accept it as anything but very likely edited propaganda - note that there were at least five separate cameras recording the suicide explosion - with some of the filming being done after the fact to make it more dramatic. It does, nevertheless, show some things of a military interest. It was initiated by a suicide bombing - the huge explosion at the beginning - but it is important to note that firing can be heard just before the blast. I expect it was the Kenyan sentries firing on the truck. The blast undoubtedly killed most of the guards who were awake and thoroughly disoriented the sleeping soldiers who were unable to effectively defend themselves. It is remarkable that the heavy weapon in the bunker never opened up, but at least one Kenyan soldier is seen running from the bunker before being cut down by Al Shabaab fighters who had flanked his position. It would appear that none of the armored vehicles had ready ammunition or crew to fire them (although the Panhard's 90mm gun would not have been of much use against infantry) and the driver in the APC at the end looks completely unprepared for battle (dressed only in a t-shirt without a helmet or rifle). American soldiers in Iraq learned how to fight this kind of battle the hard way, so while there is much to criticize about the unit's preparedness, it's worthwhile to realize that every Kenyan officer present on the field died there and that these are also our allies fighting with U.S. Special Forces in the CAR and Congo chasing Joseph Kony. They need more help from us.
---------------
For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any condition submit to the domination of the English. It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life

dt509er
Santa Rosa, CA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 457

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/7/2017 11:14:08 PM

Quote:
Something is drastically wrong there; for a unit with at least 3 armoured vehicles and what appeared to be a heavy machine gun in a sandbagged position to not return fire against an attack that must have been at least double the 5 minutes of the video and that started from some distance away. Did the Kenyans even have ammo?
--Riaindevoy


That is typical for terrorism these days. Stage the event with the act of realism...its like they are making a movie, which they are then using as recruiting tool.
---------------
"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..."

I take offense to your perception of being offended!

“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/8/2017 12:16:15 AM
Just seems odd that a proper 'fire base' didn't have had a blast protection assessment/design focus, given the enemy's 'modus operandi'..
Inc' a vehicle stop/check defence 'bottleneck' approach route set-up, with pre-laid anti-tank mines wired for on-command use.

& no anti-personnel mines, or incendiary-napalm/smoke/phosphorus/CS gas bombs wired into the perimeter?
Or pre-aimed mortar support firing 'daisy cutter' munitions?

I'd have thought a French 90mm gun would have def' had a 'flechette' round available too, esp' for such deployments..

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3296

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/8/2017 8:31:48 AM
Almost makes me wonder if it was a 'punishment unit' - deliberately sent out to be 'culled'

 Hmm, let us bear in mind not every military force operates with a Wehrmacht or RKKA mentality.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/8/2017 8:53:07 AM

Quote:

This attack took place over a year ago and the film was distributed as Al Shabaab propaganda. As such, I would not necessarily accept it as anything but very likely edited propaganda - note that there were at least five separate cameras recording the suicide explosion - with some of the filming being done after the fact to make it more dramatic. It does, nevertheless, show some things of a military interest. It was initiated by a suicide bombing - the huge explosion at the beginning - but it is important to note that firing can be heard just before the blast. I expect it was the Kenyan sentries firing on the truck. The blast undoubtedly killed most of the guards who were awake and thoroughly disoriented the sleeping soldiers who were unable to effectively defend themselves. It is remarkable that the heavy weapon in the bunker never opened up, but at least one Kenyan soldier is seen running from the bunker before being cut down by Al Shabaab fighters who had flanked his position. It would appear that none of the armored vehicles had ready ammunition or crew to fire them (although the Panhard's 90mm gun would not have been of much use against infantry) and the driver in the APC at the end looks completely unprepared for battle (dressed only in a t-shirt without a helmet or rifle). American soldiers in Iraq learned how to fight this kind of battle the hard way, so while there is much to criticize about the unit's preparedness, it's worthwhile to realize that every Kenyan officer present on the field died there and that these are also our allies fighting with U.S. Special Forces in the CAR and Congo chasing Joseph Kony. They need more help from us.
--74 PA


You are absolutely right, this attack in El Adde did take place a year ago. Some 160 Kenyans were killed.

The attack a week and a half ago was in Kulbiyow, where about 65 Kenyan soldiers were killed in much the same situation as the one in this film.

I agree with your observations, the film is certainly edited as propaganda, but unfortunately the outcome was not staged or edited. The Kenyan unit was indeed wiped out, but did fight back for almost an hour in scattered defense positions. Ethiopian units, designed for trench warfare against Eritrea, have not fared much better - generally being able to sweep away Al-Shabaab in open battle, but vulnerable to attacks on the individual fortified camps.

Unfortunately the units that are deployed to fight Al Shabaab, and initially Boko Haram in Nigeria, ware ill designed for the task, being essentially armoured or mechanised formations with rigid command structures. Part of the problem has been European/US advisers coming in telling African armies that they must change the guerilla based setup they have had, to more rigid battalion and brigade structures to be a modern army. There is very little real intelligence sharing among the different countries in the region, simply because they generally don't trust each other. The Kenyans are bearing much of the burden in East and Central Africa and certainly need more help.
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/13/2017 12:19:03 AM
In the 'Nam, the Australian armoured units performed quite well against 'Charlie'.

The robust Centurion tank, ( inc' a nuclear test survivor!) did ( despite being a
typical 'Limey' - 'nuts 'n' bolts' - machine that needed plenty of servicing) provide
a good level of crew protection/combat functionality against anti-tank mines & RPG fire.

In fact, there is a relevantly interesting war museum exhibit in Canberra, being
a 'shortened/sawn off' 20pdr barrel from a Centurion tank, as extemporised in combat.

While providing 'bunker-busting' HE fire as close support for an infantry assault on V-C strong-points,
an enemy RPG war-head struck the outer section of gun-tube, damaging it. No more HE!
So the resourceful gunner suggested firing a solid A.P. shot, & observing results...

The result was, of course, that the solid shot took the warped/funky tube-end with it, & accordingly, HE fire was resumed.

Those Kenyan AFV's didn't seem to have been fitted with even basic anti-RPG stand-off screens..

Its 65 years since Princess Elizabeth was in Kenya, & became H.M. Q.E. while there,
-with hubby Phillip - who thereby ended his navy career to become Royal Consort.

I wonder what the crusty ol' Duke would make of the Kenyan's debacle?

I can imagine that he'd be telling the missus something like..

"What a bloody shower - typical of 'brown jobs' putting up a 'black'! It would never do for the Senior Service..

Now Liz, if I was there... I'd soon sort those Shifta johnnies out, & hang their swinish hides on the bloody boma!
I'd call 'guns' & have him lay on a few salvoes of 'tiffin' (canister), yes, a decent measure of the good old 'grape' will flog some
respect into those filthy irregulars, & no Geneva Convention niceties need apply, so fling 'em some 'hot-shot' phosphor to share about,
& dum-dums aplenty, too! We'd give 'em a damn good strafin', as our German cousins would appreciate, approvingly.."




74 PA
Woodbridge, VA, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist
Posts: 68

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/19/2017 2:26:30 PM

Quote:
Just seems odd that a proper 'fire base' didn't have had a blast protection assessment/design focus, given the enemy's 'modus operandi'..
Inc' a vehicle stop/check defence 'bottleneck' approach route set-up, with pre-laid anti-tank mines wired for on-command use.

& no anti-personnel mines, or incendiary-napalm/smoke/phosphorus/CS gas bombs wired into the perimeter?
Or pre-aimed mortar support firing 'daisy cutter' munitions?

I'd have thought a French 90mm gun would have def' had a 'flechette' round available too, esp' for such deployments..
--James W.


I don't think this was a fire base in the traditional Western sense, i'e', it wasn't built as an artillery base. Rather, it appears to have been simply a base from which patrols could be staged in the vicinity of a local village. That it was poorly fortified is without question. But few African countries have the types or numbers of perimeter defence equipment that is necessary from the perspective of a Western army. The Panhard only carries 20 rounds of 90mm, and can carry a combination of HE, HEAT, smoke and canister. I've seen no information that Kenyan Panhards are equipped with canister, but they may well be.
---------------
For so long as one hundred men remain alive, we shall never under any condition submit to the domination of the English. It is not for glory or riches or honours that we fight, but only for liberty, which no good man will consent to lose but with his life

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2474

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/22/2017 2:38:33 AM
Even if it's highly edited for propaganda purposes, that footage comes as an awful wake up call for the likes of me, who know next to nothing about the intensity of the fighting in those places we don't hear enough about.

Christ ! Look what we're up against !

It's shaken me up, I don't mind telling you.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/24/2017 2:33:05 PM
This incident happened over one year ago. Since then the Western Intel community has conducted its own enquiry into the what happened. A number of facts have been established :

1. The KDF was in a laid back occupational mode. Lots of lucrative deals in charcoal and comfort women. Questions over combat readiness, spares and ammom and troop morale.

2. Little or no hard patrolling. Base security was to say the least 'slack'.

3. Some of the comfort women were gathering intel for Al Shabaab.

4. On the basis of this very good intel, Al Shabaab mounted a determined and well resourced assault.
With at least 6 KDF officers KIA, they did their homework.

5. A captured APC and at least several VBIEDs were used. Up to 15 suicide bombers.

6. "Technicals" - pickups with heavy AA guns laid down suppressive fire.

7. The KDF troops showed little bottle for the fire fight. Faced with a well motivated and determined enemy who were willing to die for what they believed in, they allowed their base area to become a killing ground.

The 9/15 Kenyan Rifles can fight and die as well as the next man- but they need to know the basic question "why?".

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/24/2017 11:37:27 PM

Quote:
This incident happened over one year ago. Since then the Western Intel community has conducted its own enquiry into the what happened. A number of facts have been established :

The 9/15 Kenyan Rifles can fight and die as well as the next man- but they need to know the basic question "why?".
--SJ


SJ, if by "why?" you actually mean - HOW could they present themselves so unprofessionally, esp' when ensconced in 'Injun territory' & those points do stack up...

Maybe they missed out on the opening scene of 'Patton', where duty of why - is spelt out, "...to make the other bastard die for his..."

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 6:25:11 AM
James, have you ever been to a Third World African country and seen first hand the dynamic of the military ?

Yes, maybe they missed out on the opening scene of Patton, but maybe Patton was not pocketing the wages of his troops, and over the hill Omar Bradley was not selling arms and doing deals with the Nazis on smuggling and people trafficking.

Different war, different world view and an imbedded culture of corruption, tribal favouritism and inefficient. This is not a "professional" army in the Western sense. Advancement is not on merit.

European style Nationalism and western patriotism means little in Africa. The prime loyalty is to tribe/religion and one's self.





James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 6:51:46 AM
Good points SJ..

As for 3rd World - I do recall seeing 1st hand, the pervasive intensity of the Tatmadaw in Burma ~20 years ago.. & yeah - they really meant business...

Sub-Saharan Africa, is of course - as you make plain, a different kettle of fish,
(as is the Indian sub-continent), but sure, corruption & low average IQ - both likely have more impact there too..


We will also recall for how many centuries the British Army was run on such a basis, rather than merit, & corrupt/incompetent likewise, with few notable exceptions..

( & true, Patton & Bradley were not doing deals with Nazis, that was up to businessmen such as Henry Ford, GM, Bush, Dulles, et al)..

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 8:00:27 AM

Quote:
Good points SJ..

As for 3rd World - I do recall seeing 1st hand, the pervasive intensity of the Tatmadaw in Burma ~20 years ago.. & yeah - they really meant business...

Sub-Saharan Africa, is of course - as you make plain, a different kettle of fish,
(as is the Indian sub-continent), but sure, corruption & low average IQ - both likely have more impact there too..


We will also recall for how many centuries the British Army was run on such a basis, rather than merit, & corrupt/incompetent likewise, with few notable exceptions..

-8-James W.


Good James, we are on the same range setting. I will recount a short story
It concerns a Scotsman, an Ulsterman (Irish to the rest of the world) and a Welshmen.

Once upon a time, they were on a BAT (British Army Training) Team-

Jock was 1 Royal Highland Fusiliers, from Ayrshire. Paddy was Royal Irish(UDR before he joined the 2 Rangers, and Griff (Jones273) was 1 Royal Welch Fuisliers. All three were ex-Operation Banner vets, and their work seriously.

The African troops they were working with retained many of the old colonial traditions. Their kit was mostly ex-BA. The task was patrolling skills - rural and urban. 273 produced some lesson plans which he had worked up with Cadets (16 year olds) on his last 'confidential'. Yes, it was the basic level of harbours and clearing patrols. New stuff to this NCO cadre! One lowly L/C excelled. We will call himJoe He listened, he watched, he got it. The team put a couple of white tapes on his shoulders and "for demo" purposes" let him lead for a few hours . He was a natural. He excelled !

( This was often done in BAT training as it spared the blushes of SNCO's/Officers- the JuniorRank could make a cock up - and the nobody had to lose face)

Next day the team found Joe covered in bruises and cleaning latrines. He was then promptly RTU'ed. Fate unknown.
His crime- he was Pokomo not Kikuyu or Baluhya.

Pity the KDF unit had not mastered those basic patrol base skills. Total base security (no comfort women),well sighted claymores, interlocking fields of fire to give 360 coverage, a well oiled contingency plan to break out with the AFVs and take the insurgents on their exposed
flank (The AML 90 alone has HE and a 7.62 coaxial)- and if all else failed....a secure ERV. It was not rocket science....L/C Joe got it.

The BAT team went back to basic mission- showing off ex-Brit kit that was being disposed of by MoD.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 10:34:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Good points SJ..

As for 3rd World - I do recall seeing 1st hand, the pervasive intensity of the Tatmadaw in Burma ~20 years ago.. & yeah - they really meant business...

Sub-Saharan Africa, is of course - as you make plain, a different kettle of fish,
(as is the Indian sub-continent), but sure, corruption & low average IQ - both likely have more impact there too..


We will also recall for how many centuries the British Army was run on such a basis, rather than merit, & corrupt/incompetent likewise, with few notable exceptions..

-8-James W.


Good James, we are on the same range setting. I will recount a short story
It concerns a Scotsman, an Ulsterman (Irish to the rest of the world) and a Welshmen.

Once upon a time, they were on a BAT (British Army Training) Team-

Jock was 1 Royal Highland Fusiliers, from Ayrshire. Paddy was Royal Irish(UDR before he joined the 2 Rangers, and Griff (Jones273) was 1 Royal Welch Fuisliers. All three were ex-Operation Banner vets, and their took work seriously.

The African troops they were working with retained many of the old colonial traditions. Their kit was mostly ex-BA. The task was patrolling skills - rural and urban. 273 produced some lesson plans which he had worked up with Cadets (16 year olds) on his last 'confidential'. Yes, it was the basic level of harbours and clearing patrols. New stuff to this NCO cadre! One lowly L/C excelled. We will call himJoe He listened, he watched, he got it. The team put a couple of white tapes on his shoulders and "for demo" purposes" let him lead for a few hours . He was a natural. He excelled !

( This was often done in BAT training as it spared the blushes of SNCO's/Officers- the JuniorRank could make a cock up - and the nobody had to lose face)

Next day the team found Joe covered in bruises and cleaning latrines. He was then promptly RTU'ed. Fate unknown.
His crime- he was Pokomo not Kikuyu or Baluhya.

Pity the KDF unit had not mastered those basic patrol base skills. Total base security (no comfort women),well sighted claymores, interlocking fields of fire to give 360 coverage, a well oiled contingency plan to break out with the AFVs and take the insurgents on their exposed
flank (The AML 90 alone has HE and a 7.62 coaxial)- and if all else failed....a secure ERV. It was not rocket science....L/C Joe got it.

The BAT team went back to basic mission- showing off ex-Brit kit that was being disposed off by MoD. The host nation bought tons

--SJ


BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3296

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 11:20:59 AM
SJ,

 I would have hoped those who followed in the footsteps of the King's African Rifles might have been able to retain a bit more professionalism. Perhaps I am a hopeless romantic. Your summary of the situational factors is compelling.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Society's righteous paranoia lows profoundly. -- random wisdom of a computer

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/25/2017 6:50:18 PM

Quote:
This incident happened over one year ago. Since then the Western Intel community has conducted its own enquiry into the what happened. A number of facts have been established :

1. The KDF was in a laid back occupational mode. Lots of lucrative deals in charcoal and comfort women. Questions over combat readiness, spares and ammom and troop morale.

2. Little or no hard patrolling. Base security was to say the least 'slack'.

3. Some of the comfort women were gathering intel for Al Shabaab.

4. On the basis of this very good intel, Al Shabaab mounted a determined and well resourced assault.
With at least 6 KDF officers KIA, they did their homework.

5. A captured APC and at least several VBIEDs were used. Up to 15 suicide bombers.

6. "Technicals" - pickups with heavy AA guns laid down suppressive fire.

7. The KDF troops showed little bottle for the fire fight. Faced with a well motivated and determined enemy who were willing to die for what they believed in, they allowed their base area to become a killing ground.

The 9/15 Kenyan Rifles can fight and die as well as the next man- but they need to know the basic question "why?".
--SJ



Good summary SJ, unfortunately no lessons have been learnt and a similar attack hit a Kenyan/Somali army base in Kulbiyow a month ago with about 60 casualties.
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/26/2017 8:49:29 AM

Quote:

Good summary SJ, unfortunately no lessons have been learnt and a similar attack hit a Kenyan/Somali army base in Kulbiyow a month ago with about 60 casualties.

--kaii



Sadly not Kaii. This pandemic level of corruption and tribal cronyism is far too deeply embedded in the culture to be reformed in 12 months. Indeed the flush of success has enhanced Al Shabbab's standing to the point that the KAF avoid "contact".

I have a troubled feeling that the conflict could well follow the Kenyans across the border.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/26/2017 3:15:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Good summary SJ, unfortunately no lessons have been learnt and a similar attack hit a Kenyan/Somali army base in Kulbiyow a month ago with about 60 casualties.

--kaii



Sadly not Kaii. This pandemic level of corruption and tribal cronyism is far too deeply embedded in the culture to be reformed in 12 months. Indeed the flush of success has enhanced Al Shabbab's standing to the point that the KAF avoid "contact".

I have a troubled feeling that the conflict could well follow the Kenyans across the border.
--SJ


Much like the Ethiopians before them, when they found that Al Shabaab units would attack them in their bases on the Ethiopian side of the border. Luckily (I suppose).Al Shabaab doe not have the same regional aspirations as some other of these movements so have largelly contained themselves to Somalia so far. There is a new generation of leaders coming up though, that would rather declare support for Daesh and fight to establish a regional calpihate rather than a national Somali one.
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/26/2017 7:32:14 PM

Quote:

Sadly not Kaii. This pandemic level of corruption and tribal cronyism is far too deeply embedded in the culture to be reformed in 12 months. Indeed the flush of success has enhanced Al Shabbab's standing to the point that the KAF avoid "contact".

I have a troubled feeling that the conflict could well follow the Kenyans across the border.
--SJ


Much like the Ethiopians before them, when they found that Al Shabaab units would attack them in their bases on the Ethiopian side of the border. Luckily (I suppose).Al Shabaab doe not have the same regional aspirations as some other of these movements so have largelly contained themselves to Somalia so far. There is a new generation of leaders coming up though, that would rather declare support for Daesh and fight to establish a regional calpihate rather than a national Somali one.
--kaii

I was thinking about a more home grown problem. Kenya's northern Province (Wogooyi Bari) is ethnically Somali - and very disaffected with Kenyan misrule. When you tour the land, you see youths with hands amputated - the optics of Sharia Law. The Kenyan elite has long favoured the Ogaden clan- and that favouritism has festered radicalism.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/26/2017 7:32:15 PM

Quote:

Sadly not Kaii. This pandemic level of corruption and tribal cronyism is far too deeply embedded in the culture to be reformed in 12 months. Indeed the flush of success has enhanced Al Shabbab's standing to the point that the KAF avoid "contact".

I have a troubled feeling that the conflict could well follow the Kenyans across the border.
--SJ


Much like the Ethiopians before them, when they found that Al Shabaab units would attack them in their bases on the Ethiopian side of the border. Luckily (I suppose).Al Shabaab doe not have the same regional aspirations as some other of these movements so have largelly contained themselves to Somalia so far. There is a new generation of leaders coming up though, that would rather declare support for Daesh and fight to establish a regional calpihate rather than a national Somali one.
--kaii

I was thinking about a more home grown problem. Kenya's northern Province (Wogooyi Bari) is ethnically Somali - and very disaffected with Kenyan misrule. When you tour the land, you see youths with hands amputated - the optics of Sharia Law. The Kenyan elite has long favoured the Ogaden clan- and that favouritism has festered radicalism.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/26/2017 9:17:37 PM
Good point SJ, the entire Jubaland region is a hotbed of radicalism and Al-Shabaab does draw a major part of its financing from Somali property barons in the region. I do remember noticing young men with hands amputated once you go a bit outside Gaarisa and other major towns in the region. Over 50 years since the last real armed attempt to join Somalia, so perhaps a new one is due?

---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/27/2017 8:38:57 AM
Or it is the will of Allah and makes someone money ?

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Al Shabaab destruction of Kenyan army unit
Posted on: 2/27/2017 9:04:41 AM

Quote:
Or it is the will of Allah and makes someone money ?
--SJ


A shame there is no "like" button in this forum :-)
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

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