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The current time is: 10/17/2017 7:11:44 AM
 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
AuthorMessage
kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Raqqa/Manbij
Posted on: 3/12/2017 11:02:54 PM
With the entry of US Special Forces into Manbij, we suddenly have a situation where there is a real chance of a firefight between US and Turkish forces in the region.

Thoughts?
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Moderator


Posts: 1294

Re: Raqqa/Manbij
Posted on: 3/14/2017 8:07:34 PM
Can you offer any good links to what's happening there, Kai? I've not picked up too much that might raise concerns more than normally. Bad information, lack of coverage or blind stupidity: not sure what combination. But with tweets and alternative news and mixed signals about levels of engagement, I find it difficult to be even close to certain I know what the hell is going on.

Have the rules for US involvement changed recently? There was talk about the US relaxing restrictions on troop engagement for controlled periods in specific areas, for instance, and the recent questionable "Seal" raid was cited as being one possible indicator of such a situation, but I don't know if that's accurate or merely window-dressing. Or are you simply talking about proximity of forces supporting different sides in this increasingly broad civil war?

To my shame, I don't even know the strength of US engagement, or the equipment that is backing US forces. I read from one source about "elite Iraqi troops", e.g., yet from another source those same troops are described as "US-led", but I'm assuming those stories were about Falluja rather than Raqqa. IIUC, the US is providing support to what I consider the three main "partners" fighting Sadat and/or ISIL, including Peshmerga and SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces). Is the division of responsibility so clear-cut that it is likely that Turks might face US-backed SDF rather than US-supported Peshmerga? I don't know.

I can't see any kind of deliberate clash between Turkish and US forces, unless it could be a "deniable" engagement: misunderstanding of signals; misreading of uniforms/lack of uniforms; deliberate misrepresentation of intention – that kind of thing. I could see an errant air attack, or an exchange of artillery, but such things are to be expected in irregular warfare, aren't they? Canada lost some folks to "friendly fire" or a sort some time ago, IIRC.

Cheers
Brian G

---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Raqqa/Manbij
Posted on: 3/14/2017 8:43:29 PM
Brian, sorry, I had planned a follow-up post on this of course, but it slipped my mind completely.
I'll get round to it, promise!

K
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: Raqqa/Manbij
Posted on: 3/20/2017 2:50:34 PM
Here are some the links what I was talking about..

My point was that since US forces are now operating essentially in the same area as the Turks, but supporting forces that the Turks regularly attack (i.e. The Kurds and some of the Syrian rebels), there is a (small) chance that US and Turkish forces could end up in combat vs each other. With US Special Forces reportedly operating together with the Turks,there is even a chance that US forces could be fighting each other in this mess of a situation. One would like to think that modern armies are above blue on blue incidents but experiencehas shown that this is certainly not the case. This could get messy.

[Read More]
[urlhttp://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/03/08/us-marines-move-syria-howitzers.html' target='blank'>[Read More]
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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