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 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3497

German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 12:35:19 PM
[Read More]


Quote:
Key Findings
British Army Conclusions

The British Army can provide an armored task force within 30 days and would require 30 and 90 days to scale up to a full armored brigade. Britain should be able to sustain at least one armored brigade indefinitely, although there are lingering doubts associated with the undermanned nature of the Adaptive Force, which will be called upon to provide units to relieve the units of the Reactive Force.

French Army Conclusions

France can probably field one medium or heavy battalion task force within a week. Generating the equivalent of a full armored brigade probably would take several weeks to a month.
The toll of France's ongoing operations — especially Operation Sentinelle — on French Army readiness introduces a significant degree of uncertainty regarding France's capacity to sustain a brigade and that brigade's proficiency. This uncertainty will linger until France finds a way to lighten the load currently carried by its ground forces, particularly in the army's homeland security role, while also growing the overall size of the force.

German Army Conclusions

The German Army most likely would require a week or more to mobilize an armored battalion; a full brigade probably would take a month. Because the Germans will have to strip other units of equipment to provide for an armored brigade, they will have a hard time fielding a larger force or engaging in other operations until equipment shortages are addressed.


 French Army contributes 10% of its strength to basic security operations within France due to the threat posed by terrorists:


Quote:
However, the challenge for the French is that their army is badly overstretched. Of particular note is the open-ended Opération Sentinelle, France’s military response to the terrorist attacks of 2015. Sentinelle currently involves roughly 10,000 service personnel who actively guard “sensitive public places,” including airports, train stations, Jewish schools, kosher restaurants, and synagogues.


 Interesting reading.

Cheers

BW

---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1935

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 1:38:44 PM
Interesting indeed, and slightly concerning at the same time. It is just this that could convince the Russians that there is a window of opportunity to present a fait accompli in Eastern Europe that NATO would not respond militarily too.

Luckily the situation is probably slightly better now than what this article lays out, but still some way to go, definitely.
---------------
You can be a Dictator or you can design ladies undergarments. You can't do both (Bertie Wooster)

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3497

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 1:52:39 PM
Kai,

 And one wonders if BREXIT will bring about side effects that may corrode British military participation in NATO. I am not at all confident that squabbling between the EU and NATO member nations will enjoy a watertight division between the relationships of such nations to the EU and NATO. Probably a good thing the British already have a battalion on the ground in Estonia.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1935

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 2:11:20 PM
For all the posturing that EU and NATO are different organisations and unrelated, and therefore will not be affected by Brexit, I have the same fear as you - there is bound to be some fallout and relationships will be strained during and after the Brexit process. Hopefully NATO can get back to what it was supposed to be and retake the role of regional military command, but there are strong political drivers (not so much military) in the EUto further develop the military aspect of EU - which would be in direct competition with NATO, unless EU itself would de jure and de facto take over the NATO membership of its member nations.

Interesting times ahead, there are some positive developments in Europe in terms of defence spending and especially in joint NATO procurement projects but there is no doubt running an efficient military is much easier in a dictatorship...

---------------
You can be a Dictator or you can design ladies undergarments. You can't do both (Bertie Wooster)

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 2:24:55 PM

Quote:
For all the posturing that EU and NATO are different organisations and unrelated, and therefore will not be affected by Brexit, I have the same fear as you - there is bound to be some fallout and relationships will be strained during and after the Brexit process. Hopefully NATO can get back to what it was supposed to be and retake the role of regional military command, but there are strong political drivers (not so much military) in the EUto further develop the military aspect of EU - which would be in direct competition with NATO, unless EU itself would de jure and de facto take over the NATO membership of its member nations.

Interesting times ahead, there are some positive developments in Europe in terms of defence spending and especially in joint NATO procurement projects but there is no doubt running an efficient military is much easier in a dictatorship...


--kaii


No evidence of ANY souring of NATO relationships as a corollary of Brexit. The Brits have been keen to demonstrate their commitment at all security and defence levels, and NATO/EU intelligence community have an interdependence on the UK they don't wish politics to get in the way of.

On the aspects for mobilisation timetable , as Operation Parquet demonstrated - the Brits can move heaven and earth - if the political will and public support exists !

BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3497

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 2:32:28 PM
and NATO/EU intelligence community have an interdependence on the UK they don't wish politics to get in the way of.

 Eh, I've already seen comments in print that the UK-EU intel relationship would suffer should BREXIT become a reality. This one is 'wait and see' for me. It has too much potential to become bitter, with all the counter-productive behavior that accompanies such situations. One hopes cool heads will prevail.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 2:55:55 PM

Quote:
and NATO/EU intelligence community have an interdependence on the UK they don't wish politics to get in the way of.

 Eh, I've already seen comments in print that the UK-EU intel relationship would suffer should BREXIT become a reality. This one is 'wait and see' for me. It has too much potential to become bitter, with all the counter-productive behavior that accompanies such situations. One hopes cool heads will prevail.

Cheers

BW
--BWilson


There's a lot of pre-negotiation posturing by Tory politicians. The intel community and their level of relationships will be there long after the politicians have come and gone.

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1935

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/1/2017 4:08:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:
and NATO/EU intelligence community have an interdependence on the UK they don't wish politics to get in the way of.

 Eh, I've already seen comments in print that the UK-EU intel relationship would suffer should BREXIT become a reality. This one is 'wait and see' for me. It has too much potential to become bitter, with all the counter-productive behavior that accompanies such situations. One hopes cool heads will prevail.

Cheers

BW
--BWilson


There's a lot of pre-negotiation posturing by Tory politicians. The intel community and their level of relationships will be there long after the politicians have come and gone.

--SJ


I agree with SJ here, any fall out will beat a political level,not military level - although as SJ also pointed out, political will is a key component in the ability to mobilise military resources.
---------------
You can be a Dictator or you can design ladies undergarments. You can't do both (Bertie Wooster)

SJ
Belfast N Ireland, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 697

Re: German, French, and British force generation capability today
Posted on: 5/2/2017 2:04:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
and NATO/EU intelligence community have an interdependence on the UK they don't wish politics to get in the way of.

 Eh, I've already seen comments in print that the UK-EU intel relationship would suffer should BREXIT become a reality. This one is 'wait and see' for me. It has too much potential to become bitter, with all the counter-productive behavior that accompanies such situations. One hopes cool heads will prevail.

Cheers

BW
--BWilson


There's a lot of pre-negotiation posturing by Tory politicians. The intel community and their level of relationships will be there long after the politicians have come and gone.

--SJ


I agree with SJ here, any fall out will beat a political level,not military level - although as SJ also pointed out, political will is a key component in the ability to mobilise military resources.
--kaii


I think it also important to note the LEVEL of example deployments. A Brigade versus battalions.

Spearhead - SAS plus a Commando or Light Infantry batt could be deployed in 48 hours . the tasking would be (a) delay Red forces and (b) establish beachhead/DZ. (Op Palliser vindicated this claim).
The JLF (joint landing force) would be the Brigade referred to - which is 3 Commando or 16 Air Assault.

The quality would make the difference.


 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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