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The current time is: 10/17/2017 1:52:32 AM
 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
AuthorMessage
Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/5/2017 6:08:09 PM
So over night we've had a terrorist siege in Melbourne. The dude (a Somali refugee) was part of a plot to attack the Holsworthy Army barracks but was aquitted, he was jailed for 3 years for a violent home invasion and was out on bail.

He has murdered a man, taken a woman hostage and given her the good old fashioned head butting and kicking, and then engaged in a gun battle with the cops injuring 3 of them before being killed.

I am wondering how long it will take before the bleeding hearts start harping on about backlash and hate crimes.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5934
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 5:44:16 AM
The "Bleeding Hearts" are another cult the populace could well do without in these troubled times-they are a menace to the proper course of justice and if not curbed substantially -another cult will rise up -Vigilanteism which can be just as dangerous.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5271

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 6:16:07 AM
What is a bleeding heart in the case described?

Domestic abuse does happen in Somali culture and yet family is everything to them.

There are Somali groups who try to educate their own people in Canada not only about the laws of the land but about the services available to women seeking to flee and to couples who are seeking help for marriage difficulties.

Spousal abuse is not within the sole purview of the Somalis. It happens far too often in white Canadian culture perpetrated by cowards who can trace their roots back to Europe.

I know because a member of my family was physically abused by her significant other. Fortunately she went to the police.

What the man in Melbourne did is a crime and he must be prosecuted to the full extent of Australian law?

Is there a problem in patriarchal societies with respect to the treatment of women. Yes, in some cases.

But I can recall the same sort of thing happening in some Italian immigrant homes in the '60's.

I also recall that the Italians were sure that their kids were going to hell because Canada told them that beating their kids was illegal. Those soft Canadian ways would be the end of the their children.

So let's make sure that all spousal abuse is prosecuted.


George

Larry Purtell
USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 483

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 6:52:50 AM

Quote:
The "Bleeding Hearts" are another cult the populace could well do without in these troubled times-they are a menace to the proper course of justice and if not curbed substantially -another cult will rise up -Vigilanteism which can be just as dangerous.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


I was wondering the same thing about private groups taking the law into their hands. When will the major Western countries start seeing death squads? I hope it never comes to that, but I have my doubts.


Larry
---------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 6:54:24 AM
She wasn't his wife, she was an escort who he called so he could have a hostage. She could be heard screaming in the background when he called 000 so he could shoot the cops who responded.

He was another one who despite being a refugee went back to Somalia for religions guidence.

The bleeding hearts are the first people who forget the victims and start thinking of the perpetrators and their supporters.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

Lightning
Glasgow, UK
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 442

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 10:25:11 AM

Quote:
The bleeding hearts are the first people who forget the victims and start thinking of the perpetrators and their supporters. --Riaindevoy


Are you sure the "bleeding hearts" aren't just keen to avoid civil strife that leads to untold misery and division?

Cheers,

Colin
---------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 3:38:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:
The bleeding hearts are the first people who forget the victims and start thinking of the perpetrators and their supporters. --Riaindevoy


Are you sure the "bleeding hearts" aren't just keen to avoid civil strife that leads to untold misery and division?

Cheers,

Colin

--Lightning


That is what they want, but that has to be weighed up against the terrorism and a wave of other violent crimes committed by teenage refugees which is causing misery and division that is all too familiar. It's like not treating cancer because the chemo is bad.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5271

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 5:29:44 PM
Riain, is Australia having a problem with legitimate immigrants from other parts of the world, that is, not refugees?

Cheers,

George

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Moderator


Posts: 1294

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/6/2017 9:50:12 PM
Larry, I'm with you. I get what Riain is saying, though I can't say I agree with him. I sense that "bleeding hearts" and "liberals" and "effete elitists" (remember Spiro Agnew's rant about them?) are being rolled into one big opprobrium that is now called "political correctness". And I think it's a huge mistake.

I'm fully comfortable with having laws against violence and/or terrorism. I support making Sharia law illegal whenever it conflicts with the law of the land. I think that any organization which preaches, advocates or supports hate should be shut down. At the same time, being born Arabic or Muslim simply is not evil. It's part of being human. When we forget that, or ignore that, we get into some difficulty.

Oregon right now is having difficulties surrounding this issue, in the recent killings of men attempting to protect young women. The key to the issue, it seems, is because a young woman covering her hair. Please note that particular specific: she wasn't preaching. She wasn't necessarily submitting to Sharia law. She wasn't preaching ISIS dogma. She wasn't (as far as I know) doing anything except travelling with a friend on public transit.

She also wasn't killed for her behaviour, but two others were, and a another remains in hospital with stab wounds.

Okay, I'm a bleeding heart. I mourn the loss of life of two good men who wanted to stop what must have been a frightening tirade. I'm sorry that two young women were faced with such rage. And ... I wonder what has driven a young, white man to the kind of rage that makes him kill. I wonder if anyone is looking at this white male citizen as asking what there is in his training, religion, upbringing or values that makes him hate with such intensity. IMHO, his behaviour isn't human, any more than the behaviour on London Bridge was human. And my brand of "bleeding heart liberalism" begins with what is human. Shame on me!

Larry, I'm assuming your comment is in reference to what is happening in the Philippines right now, but I'm not sure. Duterte's values are beyond frightening, and it bothers me that Mr Trump has praised him for his actions. I honestly don't expect to see vigilantes killing off drug dealers, users, carriers or profiteers in the US. Too many would die. And nobody wants to talk about the idea that the drug trade continues in part because US citizens demand drugs.

Sadly, I worry about vigilantes being sanctioned or accepted in the US depending on the "fright of the month". Seems to me that "those self-evident truths" dudes never expected folks who might want to kill blacks or latinos or Muslims or such to appear. Maybe such ugliness simply appeared impossible to the Founding Fathers. What a lovely thought!

I'm kind of proud to be a liberal. I'm kind of shocked to see what values and actions my views are linked with. But I'll admit that I can see vigilantes of various kinds becoming part of US social values. I sense that the US has, to some extent, lost the ability to think. And that opens everything up to negative values.

Cheers
Brian G

PS: Don't ask me to comment on the sub-human bastard who stole the backpack and wedding ring of one of those who died. That pushes my bleeding heart to the limit.



---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/7/2017 4:03:37 PM

Quote:
Riain, is Australia having a problem with legitimate immigrants from other parts of the world, that is, not refugees?

Cheers,

George
--George



That's something I've been giving some thought to, because I can't hold a belief if I can't justify it to myself and articulate it in argument. No, we have had a large immigration programme since the 40s and of course had tension when the source of migrants change but our current problems with crime and terrorism seem to stem from refugee intakes since the era of multiculturalism. There's the rub, its not that the refugees are the problem per se, its that the change from assimilation to multiculturalism has meant people from cultures that don't readily integrate haven't been made/persuaded/encouraged to drop their previous cultural habits. So our laws and habits which have grown around a cultural hegemony and assimilated by people ready and willing to do so are falling short when dealing with people unready and unwilling to voluntarily do so.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/7/2017 4:19:58 PM

Quote:
......................

I'm kind of proud to be a liberal. I'm kind of shocked to see what values and actions my views are linked with. But I'll admit that I can see vigilantes of various kinds becoming part of US social values. I sense that the US has, to some extent, lost the ability to think. And that opens everything up to negative values.

Cheers
Brian G

PS: Don't ask me to comment on the sub-human bastard who stole the backpack and wedding ring of one of those who died. That pushes my bleeding heart to the limit.




--brian grafton


Brian we were talking about the NY subway the other day and a mate who said when he first went to the US 2013 he was too afraid to use the subway. While we thought this was ridiculous I recalled the Guardian Angels who were a vigilante self-help group because the subway was a nightmare in the 80s and 90s which presumably when my mate, who is about 10 year older than me, would have formed his opinions. So I think vigilantism self-help isn't a new thing in the US or anywhere, nor is it necessarily a bad thing when governments are unwilling to act for political reasons.

It's interesting that your bleeding heart does have a limit, I'd suggest if you roll back far enough you'd find all of our limits at one place or another and I think/hope considerably further forward that most lefties would dare imagine.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Moderator


Posts: 1294

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/7/2017 9:14:01 PM
Riain, I have a buddy who just came back from a visit with his wife to Rwanda. He has nothing but praise for the Rwandan government's policies and impact, and for the decency which now exists in a country that was eating itself some 25 years ago.

He got an email from a friend saying, "Welcome back to civilization!" He roared! He couldn't see it as anything other than a joke. His friend was posting from England, but could have been posting from France, the US or a host of other places. Gotta love that civilization, donchathink?

Yep, my heart bleeds. I don't think it's because I'm a leftie. Hell, I'm not even sure what that means any more. I think it bleeds because human behaviour is, IMHO, going south. Not just political behaviour: human behaviour. I think we lie t

I don't think our culture is anything to hold up as a model. I don' think our values are sacrosanct, or that our civic models are anything near what others need. Above all, I have trouble assuming that "white" culture offers anything of value to other cultures.

Gotta go. Issues call me.

Cheers
Brian G
---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/8/2017 12:31:14 AM

Quote:
Riain, I have a buddy who just came back from a visit with his wife to Rwanda. He has nothing but praise for the Rwandan government's policies and impact, and for the decency which now exists in a country that was eating itself some 25 years ago.

He got an email from a friend saying, "Welcome back to civilization!" He roared! He couldn't see it as anything other than a joke. His friend was posting from England, but could have been posting from France, the US or a host of other places. Gotta love that civilization, donchathink?

Yep, my heart bleeds. I don't think it's because I'm a leftie. Hell, I'm not even sure what that means any more. I think it bleeds because human behaviour is, IMHO, going south. Not just political behaviour: human behaviour. I think we lie t

I don't think our culture is anything to hold up as a model. I don' think our values are sacrosanct, or that our civic models are anything near what others need. Above all, I have trouble assuming that "white" culture offers anything of value to other cultures.

Gotta go. Issues call me.

Cheers
Brian G
--brian grafton


I think Left and Right are becoming less relevant than the nationalist - globalist, for example I would be considered right wing because of my nationalist in-group preference but support the welfare system, subsidised university and universal healthcare which are traditionally leftie things.

Our culture may not be anything to hold up as a model or what others need, but it doesn't need to be, it just needs to suit us. As Homer Simpson profoundly said 'if you don't like it go to Russia'. However these ingrates, rather than taking their unrealistic and imagined grievances elsewhere, are suckling at the teat of our society and want to kill those who provide succour to them (ie the taxpayer and service providers). I don't think they should take the cash and not the culture.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1069

Re: Melbourne siege
Posted on: 6/8/2017 12:31:22 AM

Quote:
Riain, I have a buddy who just came back from a visit with his wife to Rwanda. He has nothing but praise for the Rwandan government's policies and impact, and for the decency which now exists in a country that was eating itself some 25 years ago.

He got an email from a friend saying, "Welcome back to civilization!" He roared! He couldn't see it as anything other than a joke. His friend was posting from England, but could have been posting from France, the US or a host of other places. Gotta love that civilization, donchathink?

Yep, my heart bleeds. I don't think it's because I'm a leftie. Hell, I'm not even sure what that means any more. I think it bleeds because human behaviour is, IMHO, going south. Not just political behaviour: human behaviour. I think we lie t

I don't think our culture is anything to hold up as a model. I don' think our values are sacrosanct, or that our civic models are anything near what others need. Above all, I have trouble assuming that "white" culture offers anything of value to other cultures.

Gotta go. Issues call me.

Cheers
Brian G
--brian grafton


I think Left and Right are becoming less relevant than the nationalist - globalist, for example I would be considered right wing because of my nationalist in-group preference but support the welfare system, subsidised university and universal healthcare which are traditionally leftie things.

Our culture may not be anything to hold up as a model or what others need, but it doesn't need to be, it just needs to suit us. As Homer Simpson profoundly said 'if you don't like it go to Russia'. However these ingrates, rather than taking their unrealistic and imagined grievances elsewhere, are suckling at the teat of our society and want to kill those who provide succour to them (ie the taxpayer and service providers). I don't think they should take the cash and not the culture.
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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