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The current time is: 11/17/2017 9:52:30 PM
 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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BWilson

top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 3438

Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/22/2017 6:01:11 AM

Quote:
Though the details remain murky and conflicting about what happened near the Nigerien village of Tongo Tongo on Oct. 4, 2017, the most consistent parts of the story suggest that the U.S. troops and their partners from Niger’s specialized Bataillon Sécurité et Renseignement (BSR), or Security and Intelligence Battalion, stopped to resupply and engage with locals.
[Read More]

 Practically invisible wars but deadly all the same.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1235

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/22/2017 9:33:37 AM
It`s a bit shocking that so many in the US seemed to be "shocked" that US Special forces were operating in Niger!

Then, the ever moronic media seem to think that full and public disclosure of US Special Forces operations should be made public and detailed.

Suffice it to say that US Special Operators are in nations all around the world. They help in intell gathering, training, coordination, and supply concerns for local forces...and, sadly, US Special Operators die in accidents, ambush....it is a dangerous enterprise to be involved in.

God rest those who died in this incident. But, a lot more would be imperiled if the morons in the media were able to print every aspect of what they are doing, where they are doing it...and how it is being done. The bad guys read news reports too.

What was it Sherman said....he would take all the newspaper reporters and have them shot as spies...were it not for the fact that he was convinced there would be news from hell by breakfast.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1901

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/24/2017 9:32:47 AM
This is a piece written by US journalist Nolan Peterson about the civilian-military divide in the US.

[Read More]

K
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1235

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/24/2017 5:01:36 PM
When I was a kid growing up, my dad was a veteran, the neighbor two houses up lost an arm in the Second World War. There were no less than six veterans who lived on the other side of the street. All, as my father, fought in that war. Most of the men my father knew in the construction business fought in it.

The physical-ed teacher and coach at my elementary school was with the 506th of "the screaming eagles" and had jumped into Normandy. When I and some of my fellow scouts wore US Military "greens" to class to honor our servicemen..our teachers didn`t give us a lecture on the evils of war or tell us not to wear them...in fact, one told us to ask "coach" about his service.

The principles of all three elementary schools I attended were veterans of that same war, or Korea. It wasn`t one percent...it seemed like everybody.

I find it disheartening that so many are ignorant of the sacrifice that goes on every damn day...for them. Every person should go to youtube and just watch some of the "homecomings" of the fallen. In addition to the casualty officer and honor guard, you`ll see many of the airport workers forming a guard of their own. And many of them salute the flag, not with a hand over the heart...but the full salute of a veteran. They know.

Too bad so many don`t.
Thanks for posting the article kaii.

Respects, Morris




---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

dick evick
Waco , TX, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 152

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/25/2017 10:06:37 AM
I too remember as a kid my Father and almost all my classmates fathers served in WW2.

Dick.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/25/2017 8:47:38 PM
I think that American citizens have the right to know whether their forces have entered the sovereign territory of another at the request of the government of that territory and if not, then to know why are they there.

And there is a problem if the Senate has no idea that 1000 soldiers are deployed to a country like Niger.

At least, there are powerful committees who oversee the military who should be up to speed on missions of this nature.


John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 523

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/25/2017 11:39:47 PM
Just because some Senators don't know doesn't mean the Senate and the appropriate "powerful committees" don't know. They approved $50mil a couple months back to pave the way for the deployment with the expansion of runways and the Pentagon does briefings regularly that most don't attend. And no the people don't have the right to know if knowing puts soldiers lives and the mission at risk, if the people know so does the enemy.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 7:02:18 AM
I said that if the government is deploying troops in other sovereign nations, that I think that the people should know that.

Apparently they have been in Niger since 2012.

1000 troops deployed to Niger is not a small extraction operation, is it?

Was there ever a statement made to the effect that the US, at the request of Niger, has deployed 1000 troops to assist in the eradication of terrorist elements? The details of that deployment may not be necessary but surely that deployment is.

Is it a combat mission, a training mission? Why shouldn't the people be aware of that information? It is their sons and daughters who have been sent there.

Or did the French ask for US help because of the problems they are having next door in Mali?

And you have reiterated my statement that government committees should know of these missions and they should have communicated that to the caucus and the minority leader, so that we don't have senators and representatives asking just what the hell is going on. They don't need the full details.


John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 523

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 1:36:28 PM
No I did not "reiterate" your statement. I told you that the "appropriate powerful committees" knew of the mission, that the entire Congress voted to approve funds for the mission and that the Pentagon gives regular briefings to Congress which many Congressmen and Senators fail to attend.

---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 2:49:39 PM
Ah so it is the fault of the elected officials that no-one seems to know what the hell is going on with this mission.

Do you know whether the US was asked to come in by the government of Niger?




John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 523

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 3:32:16 PM
I think the media is blowing the who knows what when thing out of proportion and most of the politicians are covering their ass. Or in other words the media is entertaining and the elected officials are dancing to their tune and you are buying into the drama hook, line and sinker in another attempt to make the US look bad. Same old, same old!
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1235

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 3:37:49 PM
You`ll have to ask Obama why we went in there. I know ISIS is in Mali. There are rumors they would like to get some control in Niger...the forth highest producer(by percentage) of Uranium in the world. It`s believed that the 12 man Special Forces team that was ambushed was actually trying to capture or kill an ISIS recruiter.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 4:24:49 PM

Quote:
I think the media is blowing the who knows what when thing out of proportion and most of the politicians are covering their ass. Or in other words the media is entertaining and the elected officials are dancing to their tune and you are buying into the drama hook, line and sinker in another attempt to make the US look bad. Same old, same old!
--John R. Price


That is just stupid John.

An investigation is under way because your government and the military are concerned that 4 men died and they want to know if procedures may be improved. They want to know what went wrong, if anything. It may turn out that it was all just bad luck. Some poor soldiers who were in the wrong place.

And you shamefully suggest that it is the media and incompetent and vengeful politicians who are making a mountain out of mole hill. How very Trumpian of you.

To suggest that I want to make the US look bad is, as I said, just stupid. There is a topic available for discussion. So discuss instead of playing the USA, USA, USA card or going after me.






George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 4:52:25 PM

Quote:
You`ll have to ask Obama why we went in there. I know ISIS is in Mali. There are rumors they would like to get some control in Niger...the forth highest producer(by percentage) of Uranium in the world. It`s believed that the 12 man Special Forces team that was ambushed was actually trying to capture or kill an ISIS recruiter.

Respects, Morris
--morris crumley


Mali is a hell hole. Over 100 UN peace keepers have been killed there as a result of "malicious acts". The Mali mission is redefining what peacekeeping is supposed to be.

I don't know what happened to the Mali mission but Canada was supposed to send troops there.

There are 10,000 UN peacekeepers in Mali. The French handle the combat mission.

Canada fell out of favour with the UN because it stopped participating in peace keeping missions during the Afghanistans war


Our new government wants to curry favour with the UN by getting involved in peacekeeping missions to a greater extent than it has since sending troops to Afghanistan on a combat mission.

The country was embarrassed when its bid for a security council position was turned down a couple of years ago. We had never been turned down before because we had always been one of the most active of peace keeping nations.

But the 600 or so troops that we were supposed to send to Mali have not been sent because the government is pondering whether Mali is the right mission.

It does seem right for us. We have a lot of French speaking troops who would be able to speak with the Mali and Niger troops and with the French forces present.

It was reported that the original delay in announcing the commitment was because our government wanted to consult with the new US administration. That doesn't mean that the US is calling our shots but we do have shared commitments with the US. While Canada dithered on acceptance, the leadership of the UN mission which had been reserved for a Canadian officer, was awarded to someone from another country.

So we have do troops in Ukraine and in Latvia but the Mali mission, a UN mission, is on hold.

I suspect that after our Minister of Defence, Sagit Singh spoke with James Mattis, that there may be other NATO commitments that will preclude a large UN mission.

So there are a lot of western troops in Africa right now. Canadian special forces and now regular troops have been training Niger's security forces.

I think that we should be informed of any mission that is not covert in nature.


Cheers,

George



John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 523

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 5:03:47 PM
You really do see what you want to see.

The investigation under way has nothing to do with which Congressmen knew what when and that is basically the questions you brought up and allegations you made. McCain has proposed stricter Congressional oversight on military deployments but that isn't a investigation. So basically you are mixing and matching again or not understanding how the US government works or the laws on the books.

I never said a word about "vengeful politicians." I said the media was blowing the which Senator and Congressman knew exactly what was happening and when it was happening in Niger out of proportion and that the politicians were covering their ass. Never brought Trump into the discussion all you in a effort to attack him and imply I'm one of his supporters therefore attacking me.

Not stupid in my book, insightful. And I wasn't playing the USA card in fact I was being rather disdainful of the state of US politics and media.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 10:06:30 PM
John I see that you accused me of trying to make the US look bad. You can't wiggle out of that one.

Your criticisms have no basis in fact. I have not made allegations but I chose to comment on your foolish criticism of the press and some politicians when you have no reason to do so.

Insightful commentary. Not when you are angry John or when you decide that you don't like someone.

At that point, you simply invent reasons to criticize.




morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1235

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/26/2017 10:36:26 PM
Mali is a fricken mess.

Going back into the past few years, the US Africa Command has been working to construct a beltway of drone air bases in equatorial Africa, including one at Niamey, Niger.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/27/2017 7:01:17 AM

Quote:
Mali is a fricken mess.

Going back into the past few years, the US Africa Command has been working to construct a beltway of drone air bases in equatorial Africa, including one at Niamey, Niger.

Respects, Morris
--morris crumley


The French have a large military representation in Mali. That includes some aid from allies including the US, UK, Canada, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands. I believe that the assisting nations are providing heavy lift, aerial refueling, surveillance aircraft

But I believe that the Mali mission is UN sanctioned. But the bad guys don't observe borders and they cross from Niger into Mali and back.

Does the US have the primary role in Niger and is the mission to assist the French troops while training the Niger forces?

Apparently, the US drone activities were requested by the French and they asked if the US could establish operations as quickly as possible.


Cheers,

George

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1901

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/27/2017 7:41:28 AM
This is an article showing how NATO and UN missons sometimes interlink, in that NATO resources are utilised for UN missions.

[Read More]

Mali is torn by tribal conflicts and regional power struggles. Niger has become more of a base for Boko Haram after the South Africans and Nigerians drove them out of Nigeria and they are trying to rebuild there..
---------------
A fool and his money are soon elected.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5513

Re: Dangerous missions
Posted on: 10/27/2017 9:16:24 AM
Thanks for that Kai. Interesting that the two agencies can work together at times when interests blend.

Sorry that I overlooked the significant Norwegian contribution to the fight in Mali.

I am getting the feeling that Canada will now ignore the UN request to increase its contribution to the Mali mission.

Cheers,

George

 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)    
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