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The current time is: 10/16/2017 10:03:55 PM
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AuthorMessage
kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 7:35:57 AM
The Royal Norwegian Navy has decided to go with the German U212 design to replace the 6 Ula class submarines currently in service. The 212 will be modified to carry the NSM cruise missile as well as other modifications to make it suitable to operate in the Arctic regions. Deliveries expected just after 2020. The Ula class was phased in in the late 80's (88-91) and has often been referred to as U210 design, as it is a modified 208 design from ThyssenKrupp.

At the moment the order will be for only 4 subs, which most experts say is not enough for the region, so it is expected that another two will eventually be ordered to maintain the critical mass of 6. On can hope at least...

The other alternative that lost out was the French DCNS design.

There are ongoing talks with Poland, who is looking to procure three new subs, about a joint procurement programme. This would make sense, since Poland already operates the NSM missile from mobile coastal batteries and would have an interest in similar modifications as Norway.
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5271

Re: New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 10:29:53 AM
What is the propulsion system, Kai?

BTW nice to see that one northern neighbour is upgrading its fleet.

Cheers,

George

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 11:13:18 AM

Quote:
What is the propulsion system, Kai?

BTW nice to see that one northern neighbour is upgrading its fleet.

Cheers,

George

--George


They are diesel electric George with an Air Independent Propulsion (whatever that means), way too small to be nukes.

They are currently also operated by Germany, Italy and Israel (Dolphin class). Greece, Turkey and South Korea operate a slightly different version, designated U214.

As mentioned, the Norwegian version will need to be upgraded to operate in Arctic waters as well as fire the NSM missile, so probably will get the designation U212B or even U216 in the final version. It will alsohave an anti-airmissile capability with the IDAS missile fired from the torpedu tubes, especially designed for taking out ASW helicopters.

[Read More]
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5271

Re: New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 11:57:56 AM
Thanks Kai, I don't understand the propulsion system either.

What has to be done to make them operable in Arctic Ice?

Your link indicates that this is a popular choice for a number of navies.



Cheers,

George

kaii
Edinburgh, UK
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1884

Re: New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 12:28:48 PM

Quote:
Thanks Kai, I don't understand the propulsion system either.

What has to be done to make them operable in Arctic Ice?

Your link indicates that this is a popular choice for a number of navies.



Cheers,

George
--George


Not quite sure what needs to be done George, as far as I understand the hull might be slightly longer on the Norwegian version/There are also things like heating systems to think about - when the Ula class was sent to operate in the Med for NATO operations, the crew found that it was badly suited to the warmer waters of the Med, and quite uncomfortable over longer periods.

Apparently the AIP makes the sub able to stay submerged for long periods, two weeks is the period mentioned in the article. Also,it is very quiet and very well suited for the Norwegian coast where bigger subs will struggle to get in among the islands and fiords, whereas smaller subs can easily hide.

good news all over, I just hope the final order will be at least 6 and not left at 4.
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A fool and his money are soon elected.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major


Posts: 1067

Re: New subs for the Royal Norwegian Navy
Posted on: 2/3/2017 3:54:41 PM
There are a couple of types of AIP for subs these day, the T212 uses a fuel cell which makes electricity from hydrogen and oxygen, but they all pretty much do the same thing in providing a small amount of electrical power for a prolonged period. In tactical terms what it does is allow much greater flexibility compared to diesel/electric alone. In a standard d/e the sub runs on batteries when submerged which have to be periodically recharged by schnorkeling at periscope depth. But like anything that uses batteries they last longer when not being drawn on so sub commanders creep around at 5 knots and schnorkel regularly to keep the battery as fully charged as possible in case the sub needs to run at 20 knots for attack and evasion. I think the battery charge at attack/evasion speeds runs out in some ridiculously short time like 4 or 5 hours. Of course schnorkeling makes underwater noise and a surface target for radar and a visible wake, so the great challenge for the sub commander is to not get caught keeping the batteries charged in order to have as fully charged batteries as possible.

What AIP does is allow the slow underwater cruising to be done without using the battery, so it is kept at full charge at all times with the full 4-5 hours of top speed in his pocket instead of finding himself in a dire situation with 50% charge and only able to run fast for 2 hours and then having to surface/schnorkel in proximity to the enemy.

Fascinating stuff!
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Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

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