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 Naval WWII    
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/26/2016 2:53:14 PM
One of the USN's largest most important WWII ships was sunk at the end of the Pacific War after delivering the Cargo that ended WWII! Sunk by a IJN Sub, the navy did nothing for over 4 days to find out why the USS Indianapolis, CA 35, was missing? It was one of the USN's most important capital ships at this time, who's mission was to transport the Atomic bomb, used to end the war. Yet incredably no one, in the Naval Hierarchy, took the time, to find out why she was missing, for over 100 hours!? In the mean time hundreds of sailors in the water were dying horrific deaths at the hands of blood thirsty sharks, lack of water & exposure! The survivors (what few that were left) from the INDY, were finally discovered after 4 days, by a Naval Seaplane, which the pilot luckily looked down ! The Navies answer as to who was to blame for this inexcusable missing ship, was the skipper of the Indianapolis! He alone was totally at fault, according to them! Captain Charles B McVay III, was made the scape goat and totally blamed & court-martialed! Later the Indy's poor skipper (he, by the way was the last heroic survivor pulled from the water!)much later he committed suicide! At least in 2001 the USN absolved McVay of any blame in this tragedy! Thanks a lot USN leadership, to this day those responsible for this inexcusable omission of any rescue attempt of the Indy, hasn't been found!? How do you explain the 1,200 crewmen on board, only just over 300 went down with the ship, and only 317 were ultimately rescued! That means that almost half the ships company needlessly died to the elements including horrific shark attacks! (As you may recall this episode was even discussed in the movie JAWS!) Makes you wonder how many other tragedies happened to other ships sank during WWII? Much to discuss here!? They say the excuse is it was a top secret mission? C-mon someone kept track??

Comments anyone, on this un-necessary tragedy!?
Websites and articles welcome!
Regards,
Dave

BTW there are also some great documentaries on the topic out there, perhaps someone could post one of these??
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/26/2016 3:41:50 PM
Guys,

Talk about a coincidence, I just googled USS Indianapolis, And saw the trailer for what promises to be the biggest historical movie of 2016! "The USS Indianapolis , Men of Courage!" staring Nicholas Cage and a whole host of stars!? They did call this "The Greatest tragedy in US Naval History!" So now we have the movie to discuss as well?

MD

BTW I was thinking to my self what a great movie this would make?
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 687

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/26/2016 5:03:24 PM
It wasn't that the Navy waited a long time to find out why she was missing, so much as they didn't know there was a problem until she was overdue at her destination. She was sailing without an escort, so there was no one to send word of her sinking.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

Mike Johnson
Stafford, VA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 495

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/26/2016 6:18:30 PM
It was not uncommon for cruisers to sail without an escort. Arguably, that was part of their mission.

There were certainly a lot of larger ships and much larger ships.

Personally, I feel the hype questioning whether the Navy let down this ship does a great deal of dishonor to the crew who did their duty. But, lots of ships were moving around at the time and some were lost.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/26/2016 11:43:21 PM
I recall there was a TV-movie made of the Naval Board of Inquiry aftermath of the loss, with the Skipper pretty much up for losing his ship & its company..

Complacency due to being at the 'end of the war'- but it wasn't, not quite & they sure paid the price..


wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/27/2016 4:32:08 AM
Starred Stacey Keach and the guy from the Waltons that played John-Boy.
Not a bad flick.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/28/2016 7:14:26 AM
Jim,

Still you would think that there would be some kind of contingency communications plan??

In wartime not to hear or plan to hear from a

important cruiser, like the Indy??? It just makes no sense??

Then to blame the whole disaster on the skipper of the ship!!!

Besides we aren't talking about the ship sinking!

The real disaster occurred because no one came to recue them,

for nearly a week! unforgiveable in my estimation!! But USN, Let's blame it all on Capt. McVay!??

Shameful, & irresponsible, What were the charges, "acting heroically in the face of the enemy,

and trying to rescue your crew under great odds"!??

Regards,
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/28/2016 7:31:00 AM
Dave-The Headquarters of Commander Marianas on Guam and of the Commander Philippine Sea Frontier on Leyte kept Operations plotting boards on which were plotted the positions of all vessels with which the headquarters were concerned.

However, for ships as large as the Indianapolis, it was assumed that they would reach their destinations on time, unless reported otherwise. Therefore, their positions were based on predictions, and not on reports. On 31 July, when she should have arrived at Leyte, Indianapolis was removed from the board in the headquarters of Commander Marianas. She was also recorded as having arrived at Leyte by the headquarters of Commander Philippine Sea Frontier.

Lieutenant Stuart B. Gibson, the Operations Officer under the Port Director, Tacloban, was the officer responsible for tracking the movements of Indianapolis.; The vessel's failure to arrive on schedule was known at once to Lieutenant Gibson, who failed to investigate the matter and made no immediate report of the fact to his superiors.

The Indianapolis sent distress calls before sinking. Three stations received the signals; however, none acted upon the call. One commander was drunk, another had ordered his men not to disturb him and a third thought it was a Japanese trap.

For a long time the Navy denied that a distress call had been sent. The receipt of the call came to light only after the release of declassified records years later-too late to save the Captain of this unfortunate ship.

Regards
Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/28/2016 7:44:45 AM
So did any of these officers responsible get even a hand slap? Or were they just let off the hook???

Maybe they had connections and were above punishment??

Just curious about USN justice?
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/28/2016 8:01:26 AM
Obviously not as-"For a long time the Navy denied that a distress call had been sent. The receipt of the call came to light only after the release of declassified records years later"-too late to save the Captain of this unfortunate ship." and to call to justice those complicit in the failure.

Regards
Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/28/2016 5:59:27 PM
Was this new information before or after McVays suicide??

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/29/2016 7:30:31 AM
The receipt of the call came to light only after the release of declassified records years later"-too late to save the life of the Captain of this unfortunate ship." and to call to justice those complicit in the failure.

Regards
Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/30/2016 2:25:02 AM
AFAIR, another unpleasant animal related WW II mass-death event also occurred - at Ramree Island Burma - in 1945..
..Nippon forces attempted to break out from British encirclement by cutting across tidal mangrove estuaries..
..but the big ol' saltie crocodiles who frequented this habitat, saw the fleeing soldiers as prey, & ~1000 were taken as such..

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/30/2016 3:21:34 AM
My father was a LS (Torpedo) and was aboard HMS Ameer (based Trincomalee)-a LL light carrier in the naval backup force to the troops who went ashore; and this horrifying story filtered back.

Regards
Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Dt509er
Santa Rosa, CA, USA
top 20
E-7 Sgt First Class


Posts: 469

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/30/2016 5:32:46 PM

Quote:
AFAIR, another unpleasant animal related WW II mass-death event also occurred - at Ramree Island Burma - in 1945..
..Nippon forces attempted to break out from British encirclement by cutting across tidal mangrove estuaries..
..but the big ol' saltie crocodiles who frequented this habitat, saw the fleeing soldiers as prey, & ~1000 were taken as such..
--James W.


An estimated 1,000 taken by crocs...Good Lord, thats almost incomprehensible!
---------------
"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..."

I take offense to your perception of being offended!

“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 5/30/2016 8:14:53 PM

Quote:
AFAIR, another unpleasant animal related WW II mass-death event also occurred - at Ramree Island Burma - in 1945..
..Nippon forces attempted to break out from British encirclement by cutting across tidal mangrove estuaries..
..but the big ol' saltie crocodiles who frequented this habitat, saw the fleeing soldiers as prey, & ~1000 were taken as such..
--James W.






Wow James,

I had to google this, to find out the facts, having never heard about it before? Well it seems it's unbelievably true! Guinness book of world records calls it the largest crocodile attack on record, nobody knows exactly how many but it had to be horrific number and a horrific way to go!? I don't know which is more terrifying sharks or crocks? Doesn't really mater I guess!?

Scary & Incredible!
MD


BTW websites & videos on this fascinating (either one) topic, welcome!?
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/2/2016 3:10:39 AM
Whilst the whole sinking was tragic and a GREAT deal of emphasis is given to the horrifying shark attacks, from my reading on the subject a large majority of the swimmers didn't have many incidents of shark attack at all or even sight any. From my hazy memory it seems to be mainly the larger group clusters of swimmers that experienced the attacks possibly the groups that jumped en mass on the abandon ship order and not distant groups or small parties the jumped early or prior to the ship going under and having moved on some distance.
Just my thoughts and not wanting to detract from the agony they all experienced spending so much time in the water.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/2/2016 6:30:20 AM
Again wazza-a pretty fair assessment; but it would be good- if you were able to put this issue beyond any reasonable doubt.A big ask I know!!

Regards
Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/3/2016 3:01:20 AM
Ummmmmm, I think the ships Doctor, his account makes mention of the small number of shark sightings compared to other survivors once they were all rescued and he got a chance to talk to everyone.
Best I can do at the moment but I am vigorously googling!!!

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6103
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/3/2016 4:55:35 AM
The ship's doctor's account should be good enough wazza-Thanks.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/5/2016 8:24:58 AM

Quote:
Ummmmmm, I think the ships Doctor, his account makes mention of the small number of shark sightings compared to other survivors once they were all rescued and he got a chance to talk to everyone.
Best I can do at the moment but I am vigorously googling!!!
--wazza




So it's another example of Hollywood taking liberties with the truth,

to build a terrifying story, for ratings!?
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/6/2016 2:45:35 AM
NO I don't think so MD.
I recall one account where they witnessed a particular aggressive Tiger Shark that would literally chew its way through the clinging groups of men.
Maybe Hollywood hasn't done the story 'enough' justice at all, on reflection?

The made for tv movie at least showed the salt water madness, the murder, the heroics and the cowardice of the tragedy.
I have my doubts of any war movie starring Nicholas Cage. I mean Windtalkers and all those ridiculous fire ball explosions?

To me the shark attack story overshadows a very complex story of survival by those struggling men.
Cheers

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 520

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/6/2016 8:00:44 PM
Were they trying to imply that the core for the atomic bomb was stowed below in a big wooden crate?

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/7/2016 3:05:22 AM
In the tv movie it was in a huge wooden crate on the deck of the ship, surrounded by armed marines.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/13/2016 8:58:18 AM
Who would of thunk it, now days it's common for people to hunt, & eat Sharks, & Gators!

pay backs are delicious??
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/14/2016 4:15:15 AM
Shark meat called 'hake' is used in our battered fish and chips here in oz.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/15/2016 5:59:28 AM

Quote:
Shark meat called 'hake' is used in our battered fish and chips here in oz.
--wazza


Wazza, I think you might be mistaking 'flake' ( shark) for 'hake' ( NZ 'hoki'- def' not shark)..

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 6/15/2016 8:11:46 AM
Guys,

Lots of restaurant chains in the states use shark, in their fish sandwiches, & fish, & chips, some do call it Hake?

Down south a lot of restaurants commonly serve gator, some in the form of what they call "Gator Bites!"?

bon appetite!
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 1/25/2017 10:21:26 PM

Quote:
It wasn't that the Navy waited a long time to find out why she was missing, so much as they didn't know there was a problem until she was overdue at her destination. She was sailing without an escort, so there was no one to send word of her sinking.
--Jim Cameron




Right you are Jim, listen to this survivor!?

[Read More]

MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 1/26/2017 1:54:31 AM

Quote:
Guys,

Lots of restaurant chains in the states use shark, in their fish sandwiches, & fish, & chips, some do call it Hake?

Down south a lot of restaurants commonly serve gator, some in the form of what they call "Gator Bites!"?

bon appetite!
MD
--Michigan Dave


Dave, are those 'farmed' or wild caught 'gators?

Over here crocs are 'farmed' for their belly skins, for use as fancy leather products, & the meat is sold as a ( largely pet-food) by-product.

The concern with shark-catch locally, is Asian liking for pricey 'shark fin soup' which involves fin-only 'harvest' & wastage of the rest...


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 520

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 1/26/2017 6:46:20 AM

Quote:
In the tv movie it was in a huge wooden crate on the deck of the ship, surrounded by armed marines.

--wazza

It was actually a metal crate that was welded to the deck on the fantail. The recent travesty, I mean movie, has it being lowered into a hold.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 2967

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 1/26/2017 8:08:14 AM
OP,

Is this the travesty, no you mean movie, you speak of??

[Read More]

MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant
Posts: 520

Re: The controversial, tragic, & terrifing loss of the USS Indianapolis!
Posted on: 1/26/2017 8:09:40 AM
They didn't have pictures of Indy?

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