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morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1303

"Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 10/24/2016 4:10:39 PM
A long time ago one of my uncles spent a few years as a park ranger at Cloudland Canyon State Park in Northwest Georgia. There was a man who lived on a farm in nearby Rising Fawn that I remember him telling me about.

His name was Desmond Doss and his incredible story of faith and of courage under fire has been made into a film coming out November 4. It is the first film directed by Mel Gibson in about ten years and it was recently given a ten-minute standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival.

One doesn`t need comic book heroes when there are real ones.

Respects, Morris
---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

Jon Zelazny
Los Angeles, CA, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 72
http://jonzelazny.com
Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 10/30/2016 4:01:22 PM
In 1999, I went to see PAYBACK, a remake of the classic Lee Marvin crime thriller POINT BLANK. Mel Gibson produced and starred, and it was well known around the studio that he barred writer-director Brian Helgeland from the editing room, and completed the film himself.

POINT BLANK was violent for 1967, but PAYBACK to me was sickening, with Gibson just wallowing in brutality, sadism, and violence against women. By the end of it, I decided he was a storyteller who got his rocks off by depicting violence for its own sake, and that I would not see any more of his movies. This was years before "sugar tits" and "Jews start all the wars."

In the following decade, he more than confirmed my suspicions with the ultra-violent PASSION OF THE CHRIST and the ultra-violent APOCALYPTO. Knowing from the trailer that HACKSAW RIDGE is the story of a pacifist, I was hopeful it was a story Gibson chose in acknowledgment of his prior excesses, and perhaps even as some reconciliation. No such luck. Early reviews all describe HACKSAW RIDGE as a first half that slathers on the Christian persecution, while the second half is a non-stop gore fest, "the most bloodthirsty story of a pacifist ever made."

I have a friend who served in the Army as a stateside Conscientious Objector during Vietnam, so I know something about the turmoil such men endure. The Desmond Doss saga sounds like a great subject for a movie, but I have zero interest in sitting through this version. Or anything else Mel Gibson puts his mind to.
---------------
Z

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 10/30/2016 10:16:38 PM
Well, Mel is considered a bit of a 'knob' here in Oz...... and you are right that there seems to be agendas to his films, whether religious or violent. He has made some comedy's and for an early look into his acting career 'Tim' isn't too bad a flick.

morris crumley
Lawrenceville, GA, USA
top 10
E-9 Sergeant Major
Posts: 1303

Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 10/31/2016 9:44:41 AM
Jon, I would agree that Gibson seems to relish violence and gore.

His battle scenes in Braveheart are "hack-fests" and bloody beyond the pale. And the history is quite loose,( in his depiction of the battle of Sterling, where`s the damn bridge that was the object of the tactical reasoning.) That said it was a really good film.

I have not viewed his depiction of the fighting on Okinawa, I am sure it is violent in the extreme. But the fighting on those islands in the Pacific was beyond belief. Anyone who saw Tom Hanks miniseries "The Pacific" can testify to the brutality that they had to portray. When you show American soldiers cutting out gold fillings of dead "Japs"...or throwing pebbles into the open head wound of a dead body during a brief respite...it`s hard to watch. But, as we all know...the enemy failed to obey the rules of war...and the marines played by the rules the Japanese chose. To make more powerful the case of a man who chose to not to take life but to save life, in the midst of such overwhelming inhumanity..you have to display the horror of that inhumanity.

A depiction of those battlefields that is sanitized just would not fly nowadays. If you watch the depiction of war in a film like "The Longest Day" and compare to "Saving Private Ryan" while the former still remains a powerful telling of the real men and events, the latter is more truthful of the action.

As to the "Christian persecution" Hollywood has proven over and over that they just love persecuting Christians. In series like Law And Order and the SUV offshoot, just as two examples, people of strong Christian faith are portrayed as shallow, one demensional, closet looneytoons and total jerks. The fact that the writers and producers of those shows, and many others, choose to constantly assault people of Christian faith is something I don`t understand. But it happens all the time. Doss was persecuted by his fellow soldiers. They threw objects at him when he prayed while in training camp...they wanted him out because they considered him "different", they had contempt for the guy, and suspicions of his "faith" until he proved them all wrong in some of the first battles they were engaged in.

But I understand your feelings about Gibson. I loved "Raging Bull" and "Goodfellows" and most all of Martin`s films...but after "The Wolf Of Wall Street"...which was excessive to the point of being almost pornographic, I don`t care to pay to see any more of his films.

Respects, Morris


---------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."

Jon Zelazny
Los Angeles, CA, USA
top 50
E-4 Specialist


Posts: 72
http://jonzelazny.com
Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 11/2/2016 1:56:05 AM
I never had a problem with Gibson as a movie star, nor was I offended by the violence in BRAVEHEART, which seemed appropriate for the time period and style of warfare, and in proper proportion to the rest of the story elements. I haven't seen it since it opened, so I'm not sure how I'd see it today.

I've been thinking about Morris's complaint that Hollywood disparages Christians. I can't speak to the shows he cited, but I think, historically, Hollywood was proud to court Christian audiences, at least from the inception of the Hays Code in the twenties until the end of the sixties, and most successfully in the Bible/Roman epic era, roughly QUO VADIS (1950) to THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (1964). The studio bosses back then understood that Christian audiences wanted Bible-inspired spectacle with a bit of titillation, so long as the Word always triumphed in the end.

I suspect there's been more of a disconnect since the 1980's. I'm sure today's money men would love to sell more tickets to the Christian market-- as Gibson did with PASSION OF THE CHRIST-- but too many creatives since the sixties simply lack the cultural foundation to properly reflect, explore, or care about Christian characters, issues, or beliefs.

Is there outright prejudice as well? Probably. It's not something I notice much, though one film that really struck me as weirdly non-religious was that Johnny Cash biopic. Anyone who knows about Cash and the Carter family knows their faith was a major influence in their lives and work, yet there's nary a mention of it in WALK THE LINE. What the hell were the filmmakers so afraid of? Losing Cash's new hipster fans from the 1990's? Even if they weren't Christians themselves, you'd think the writers would have seen the enhanced dramatic potential in Cash's personal struggles.

Finally, I love WOLF OF WALL STREET as an expose of American capitalism run amok, but I certainly understand how anybody could be completely turned off by it. Interestingly enough, Scorsese's upcoming movie is SILENCE, his long-nurtured passion project about Jesuit missionaries in feudal Japan. Perhaps he felt he had to atone for the "sin" of WOLF as well?

---------------
Z

wazza
Sydney , Australia
top 25
E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 353

Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 11/2/2016 3:07:40 AM
Still at the end of the day, we get to see a new war movie. Can't be too bad a thing all things considered?
There is still pre production work going on the Australian WWI flick '35th Battalion' but there are rumours going around that funding has become an issue.

James W.
Ballina, Australia
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 674

Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 1/13/2017 3:24:15 AM

Quote:
In 1999, I went to see PAYBACK, a remake of the classic Lee Marvin crime thriller POINT BLANK. Mel Gibson produced and starred, and it was well known around the studio that he barred writer-director Brian Helgeland from the editing room, and completed the film himself.

POINT BLANK was violent for 1967, but PAYBACK to me was sickening, with Gibson just wallowing in brutality, sadism, and violence against women. By the end of it, I decided he was a storyteller who got his rocks off by depicting violence for its own sake, and that I would not see any more of his movies. This was years before "sugar tits" and "Jews start all the wars."

In the following decade, he more than confirmed my suspicions with the ultra-violent PASSION OF THE CHRIST and the ultra-violent APOCALYPTO. Knowing from the trailer that HACKSAW RIDGE is the story of a pacifist, I was hopeful it was a story Gibson chose in acknowledgment of his prior excesses, and perhaps even as some reconciliation. No such luck. Early reviews all describe HACKSAW RIDGE as a first half that slathers on the Christian persecution, while the second half is a non-stop gore fest, "the most bloodthirsty story of a pacifist ever made."

I have a friend who served in the Army as a stateside Conscientious Objector during Vietnam, so I know something about the turmoil such men endure. The Desmond Doss saga sounds like a great subject for a movie, but I have zero interest in sitting through this version. Or anything else Mel Gibson puts his mind to.
--Jon Zelazny


I'll watch it..

& I found "Payback" a redemption of a kind, he re-earned my respect - by having a certain single-minded purity, after all the schlocky, smirking, overtly propagandist stuff he'd done..

South Park did do a hatchet job of surgical precision on Gibson's arcane religiosity-based foibles, noting the flagellation themes,
& general mayhem-type craziness that permeates.. ( just as they did on his oddly parallel colleague Tom Cruise)...

I wonder if viewing that dose of reality orientation caused them to have those public meltdowns..
Anyhow, credit where its due, both of them are capable of a decent performance ( & I bet M.G. loved T.C's performance in ' Tropic Thunder')..



Cardmines52
NYC, AK, USA
New User
E-2 Private
Posts: 1

Re: "Hacksaw Ridge"
Posted on: 3/21/2017 8:36:30 AM
Thanks for the sharing.

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