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The current time is: 12/12/2017 1:38:26 AM
 (1914-1918) WWI Battles    
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anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6095
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 3/29/2017 11:38:53 AM
Colin -I have already agreed you 1st para-so no argument there.


Quote:
Yet the stormtrooper tactics of the German army both failed to break the Allied lines and also failed to strengthen Germany's strategic position, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of casualties, many of whom were irreplaceable seasoned veterans.


Have to totally disagree with the above-they did break the lines of 5th Army and then some-but their losses were down to avid German generalship driving them on to destruction


Quote:
If there was a sea change, it wasn't due to the German innovations, but more to do with the refinement of combined arms tactics, coupled with the morale boost of ten thousand Doughboys arriving every day to boost the Allied ranks.


What had the Americans to do with the opening days of the Battle of Amiens; but yes their appearance was a morale booster- for the French; and yes we did copy the German tactics of stormtroopers; but we played a cannier hand-Generals Currie and Monash saw to that.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2595

Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 3/29/2017 12:25:29 PM
....avid German generalship driving them on to destruction

This strikes home. Right now, I'm reading Isabel Hull's book ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION.

It describes how German society was afflicted with a preponderance of influence exerted by the Military, to the extent that - instead of the army serving society - it was the other way round.

Wishful thinking prevailed at German High Command level, with catastrophic consequences.

I shall take this - downloaded onto my kindle device - when I travel down to Lambeth on the train tonight.

IF YOU GO DOWN LAMBETH WAY, ANY EVENING ANY DAY, YOU'LL SEE 'EM ALL, DOIN' THE LAMBETH WALK !

EVERY LITTLE LAMBETH GAL, WITH 'ER LITTLE LAMBETH PAL...YOU'LL SEE 'EM ALL, DOIN THE LAMBETH WALK !


That's how we won...singing damned silly little songs like that, and keeping our chins up, like all good little Tommy Atkins should !

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 6095
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 3/29/2017 12:46:18 PM

Quote:
That's how we won...singing damned silly little songs like that, and keeping our chins up, like all good little Tommy Atkins should !


Phil-it says it all-Tommy Atkins and the Bulldog Spirit

"Kaiser Bill is feeling ill,
The Crown Prince he's gone barmy.
We don't give a f--- for old von Kluck
And all his bleedin' army."

Tune--"The girl I left behind me"

Cheerful regards

Jim




















































---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

scoucer
Berlin, Germany
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 1957

Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 3/31/2017 5:26:55 PM
George,

Just a quick one. You are right about prussians being on the Pimple. The 79th Reserve Division. They were off my radar because they did not belong to the Sixth Army nor the Heeresgruppe Kronprinz Rüpprecht. They were directly under the Supreme Command. Enjoyed researching it - more later.

Trevor
---------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie

Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5690

Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 3/31/2017 7:03:56 PM
Thanks for that Trevor. Looking forward to what you dig up.

George

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5690

Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 4/8/2017 4:53:19 PM
I thought that this interview with a veteran of the Battle of Vimy Ridge was revealing.

The old soldier speaks of the importance of this battle to Canada and he offers some wise words on patriotism.

This video was filmed on the 70th anniversary of the battle.

[Read More]

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5690

Re: The Battle of Vimy Ridge--9--12 April 1917
Posted on: 4/8/2017 7:16:15 PM
I think that every country creates its own history in a way and parts are emphasized because that part shows the good in the country.

Myths are created and for Canada one of those may be that the nation was forged in battle at Vimy Ridge.

There is no doubt that this battle was an important piece of military business for such a young country.

There are those who feel that to emphasize this battle as the seminal moment in the history of a nation does a disservice to all those who strived to eke out an existence on the continent of North America and built cultures even as colonies of GB.

We are reminded that the country of Canada, nearly 50 years old at the time of Vimy was nearly torn apart by the Conscription Crisis of August of 1917.

There was rioting in Quebec and some loss of life. French-Canadians comprised over 25% of the population and they did not embrace this war, viewed as an imperial endeavour by the very nation that had conquered them.

So if a nation was established on Vimy Ridge, it was perhaps part of an Anglo myth.


That doesn't mean that we cannot honour the service and the lives of the men who fought and died on that ridge.

There were 8 sites in France and Belgium awarded to Canada as places where memorials could be raised.

Canada held a contest for sculptors with the plan to select several for each of the sites or a single design to be raised on all the sites.

Toronto sculptor, Walter Allward's design was the winner and he spent years in the design process and in the actual sculpting.

But Vimy Ridge was not the original site selected. The copy of the original contract between Allward and the Gov. of Canada states that he was to erect a monument in Belgium at the site of Hill 162. Hill 162 was part of the Battle of Mount Sorrel.

Many soldiers and others chimed in and finally Vimy Ridge was selected. Gen. Currie originally thought that Passchendaele would have been a better choice and after that he suggested that some of the battles of the last 100 days and in which his Corps succeeded in a number of battles of strategic importance would have been appropriate choices.

So Vimy it was and if not selected I think that Vimy would have faded from memory.

And so the connection between Vimy and nationhood were associated in the national psyche.

By 1936 when the monument was completed and dedicated, there were a lot of veterans of the battle who wanted to return. So even during the depression, vets and family members made the pilgrimage to Vimy Ridge to see the monument and hear it dedicated by their King Edward Vlll.

The crowd was estimated at 50,000 and among them were 6400 vets who had managed to find the money to make the journey.


The Monument

The Vimy Memorial consists of two spires or pylons and 20 allegorical sculptures attached. All are dedicated to peace. There are no guns, no helmets and no references to success in battle that I can recall.

Faith, justice, charity are represented in the sculpures.

The centre piece sculpture is a grieving mother, the Canada Bereft sculpture often called Mother Canada.

There is another called the Defenders and it features a man breaking his sword.

The plaster models that sculptor Allward used in the design process may be seen at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

Here is a close-up look

[Read More]


The monument is inscribed with the names of over 11,000 men who have no known graves. Allward didn't want any names on this monument but he was told by the government to find room for 20,000. Realizing that there was not sufficient room, about 7,000 names were inscribed at the Menen Gate in Belgium.

I can tell you that for a Canadian, this is a special place. You are warned to expect an emotional response and it is true. You cannot help but be emotional when you touch the names on the monument and realize that many of their bodies may be part of the land below the monument.


Nation builder or not, this is a worthy monument to the men of a young country who proved that they could do their bit and more.


Tomorrow is the big day. Canadians have travelled to Vimy to be there for the 150th anniversary of the battle.

This is a 15 minute video from CBC that explains why this was an important battle and just what the monument means.

[Read More]

 (1914-1918) WWI Battles    
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