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 (1914-1918) WWI Battles    
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anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 2:51:00 AM
The Hamel operation was under the command of Lieutenant General John Monash (his first as a Corps Commander), who stated:

"It was high time that the anxiety and nervousness of the public, at the sinister encroachments of the enemy upon regions which he had never previously trodden, should be allayed by a demonstration that there was still some kick left in the British Army. I was ambitious that any such kick should be administered, first, at any rate, by the Australians."

The attack would primarily take the form of an infantry assault, but with significant tank and artillery support. Monash wanted to attack as early as possible, to avoid light, decreasing enemy visibility and protecting the troops from fire for as long as possible.

The above poses the question-Why was it a textbook victory???


[Read More]

Regards

Jim

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Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
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Posts: 1072

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 3:35:54 AM
Monash avoided all of the mistakes of the previous years. In particular he set limited objectives and halted when the 4th AIF reached them which meant they didn't outrun their artillery and tank support or their communications and infantry heavy weapons.
---------------
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Phil andrade
London, UK
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Posts: 2475

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 3:41:37 AM
Brilliant all arms battle.

Artillery, aircraft, tanks and infantry all working in concert.

A contingent of US troops also deployed : a nice touch for the Fourth of July , carrying a symbolism that rendered the taste of victory all the more sweet.

Regards , Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Phil andrade
London, UK
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 2475

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 3:42:12 AM
Brilliant all arms battle.

Artillery, aircraft, tanks and infantry all working in concert.

A contingent of US troops also deployed : a nice touch for the Fourth of July , carrying a symbolism that rendered the taste of victory all the more sweet.

Regards , Phil

Double posted, apologies.
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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Posts: 5947
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 6:06:06 AM
Thanks guys-all contributing to "the bite and hold tactic""

Movements of German as well as Australian troops were marked on maps identical to those held by command below, and dropped down to motor bike riders who then dispatched the maps to the relevant section area.

Monash and battalion leaders had current information on the progress of the battle in minutes, compared with earlier laborious systems of communications.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 10:37:51 AM
Planning was conducted in strict secrecy. Dummy installations were created to throw the Germans off, harassing fire was maintained while troops were getting into positions, and no daylight movement of troops was allowed - nothing that would warn that an attack was about to take place.

Monash also asked for 18 planes to bomb Hamel, as well as older, noisier ones to distract attention from the noise of the tanks' whereabouts and movements.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
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E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 669

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 11:24:39 AM

Quote:
Brilliant all arms battle.

Artillery, aircraft, tanks and infantry all working in concert.

A contingent of US troops also deployed : a nice touch for the Fourth of July , carrying a symbolism that rendered the taste of victory all the more sweet.

Regards , Phil
--Phil andrade


One which Pershing was decidedly displeased over.
U.S. troops with the British for training were only to be used in combat in an emergency, and Pershing had specifically disapproved their use in the operation while at II Corps on July 2. He also spoke to Haig about it in Paris on July 3. Needless to say, he was surprised to learn that they (four companies from the 33rd Division) had been used after all. The explanation was that General Rawlinson (the division was assigned to his Fourth Army for training) said that if they were withdrawn, the operation would have to be put off, something only Haig could approve. Haig reportedly could not be reached.
Pershing regarded the otherwise minor incident as yet another example of the British disposition to assume control of U.S. units, and issued "instructions so positive that nothing of the kind could occur again."
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5947
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Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 12:15:43 PM
Rawlinson, knowing that Monash was a talented officer, decided to back his corps commander if Marshal Sir Douglas Haig did not countermand the decision by 7 p.m.

As it happened, Haig called just before 7, and he turned out to be very helpful. Citing the importance of the assault, he resolved the matter, saying, ‘The attack must be launched as prepared, even if a few American detachments cannot be got out before zero hour.’

Monash, who had planned the opening action to occur before daylight, went to bed early. In the early morning hours of July 4, his artillery commander, Brigadier W.A. Coxen, saw him pacing the drive. When the opening barrage thundered out, Monash looked toward the front, then turned to his office.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
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Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 12:42:01 PM
I believe that the Australian divisions were not up to strength, far from it. So the addition of the American companies was welcome and needed.

Years of battle including during the recent German Spring offensive combined with low enlistment levels and disease left the Australians short of men

Less welcome was the last minute decision to pull the Americans out of the Hamel attack.

The Americans were supposed to help alleviate the shortage.

Withdrawal wasn't welcomed by Monash and certainly not by the American soldiers who were anxious to get into it.

They had been training with the Aussies and the relationship between the two groups of men was excellent.

The Australians were hard men by this point, battle hardened. The Americans learned all they could only to be pulled out by Pershing.


Monash wanted as many Americans as he could get. He requested two thousand.

US Gen. Read was anxious to get his men some battle experience and he offered 10 companies. How large was an American company? I know that US divisions were quite large.

When Pershing heard about it, he didn't like it. Americans should fight with Americans under American command, he thought.

So he pulled the plug on July 2, 1918.

On July 3, 6 of 10 battalions were pulled out of the line.

Monash would have to reorganize his attack to reflect the sudden loss of manpower.

On July 3, late in the afternoon, Monash was told to pull the rest of the Americans out.

Monash told Rawlinson that he wanted to keep the Americans. At first Rawlinson said no but Monash was firm and Rawlinson backed him. I think that this was pretty brave of Rawlinson. He could have had the can tied to him for causing a rift between the US and GB.

The diplomatic problem went as far as Haig and he said that Monash should keep the Americans left, and go with them.

Was Pershing just ignored? Was he told that it was too late to get the message to the 4 remaining companies?


I understand Pershing's view. CDN General Arthur Currie is of the same view that Canadians would fight as Canadians and he demanded his troops back after Haig took them to plug holes during the Spring Offensive.

But I wonder whether Pershing was completely unaware that 10 companies of his troops were training with Australians and preparing to fight.

His last minute order to withdraw certainly was untimely.

So what were the repercussions in relations between Pershing and Monash, between Pershing and Rawlinson and between Pershing and Haig?


Cheers,

George





MikeMeech
UK
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E-5 Sergeant
Posts: 303

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 1:19:51 PM

Quote:
Planning was conducted in strict secrecy. Dummy installations were created to throw the Germans off, harassing fire was maintained while troops were getting into positions, and no daylight movement of troops was allowed - nothing that would warn that an attack was about to take place.

Monash also asked for 18 planes to bomb Hamel, as well as older, noisier ones to distract attention from the noise of the tanks' whereabouts and movements.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


Hi

It should be noted that by Hamel the Corps Commanders' receiving Tank Corps support got tank air support as a package. The Tank Corps and the RFC/RAF working out the problems of co-operation between themselves from experience of previous battles and various trials and experiments. The use of aeroplanes to cover the movements of tanks was first used in September 1916 and used basically continuously since then.
For Hamel the RAF squadron providing support for the Tanks was No. 8 Sqn. commanded by Major Trafford Leigh-Mallory, with FK.8 aeroplanes. The Hamel attack came a bit 'early' according to LM as he mentions that: "...it was a great pity that there was not longer than one month in which to prepare for the battles, because in so short a time it was only possible to get to know a comparatively small percentage of the officers with whom we had to work" (AIR 1/1671/204/109/26, 'History of Tank and Aircraft Co-operation'). Indeed each 8 Sqn. Flight was in the middle of trials and experiments with their respective Tank Brigades at the time (see AIR 1/1074/204/5/1665, 'No.8 Squadron, RAF Weekly Report, dated 5/7/18).
The 5th Tank Brigade took part in this attack and were supported by 'C' Flight No. 8 Sqn., four machines of this flight took part as did two machines of 'A' Flight and one of 'B' Flight. This was so all Flight commanders took part as did the Squadron commander. There were no casualties to personnel.
As I have researched air/tank co-operation, for an article, I have a fair amount of documentation reference what was undertaken in this battle. If there is any interest I could add some more detail from their reports.

Mike

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
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E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 669

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/2/2017 7:29:28 PM
U.S. rifle companies were quite large, about 250 men.

Pershing was certainly aware that U.S. troops were training with the Australians​ (and British), that after all being the arrangement, but not that they had been committed to the coming operation.

I honestly don't think that Pershing was ignored, so much as that Haig decided that it wasn't worth disrupting the operation for the sake of getting a few companies of U.S. troops out of the way. If Pershing ended up being annoyed, well, he'd get over it.

I would doubt that there were any lasting repercussions due simply to this incident.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

Riaindevoy
Geelong, Australia
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Posts: 1072

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 4:04:18 AM
How many casualties did the Americans suffer in the operation?
---------------
Vegetarian: the ancient tribal word for the villiage idiot; who was too stupid to hunt, fish and ride!

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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Posts: 5947
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Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 5:43:50 AM
Hi Riain

Allied losses amounted to around 1,400 killed or wounded. There were 1,062 Australian casualties (including 800 dead) and 176 American casualties (including between 13 and 26 killed) during the main attack and a further 142 casualties amongst the 15th Brigade during their diversionary assault around Ville. Around 2,000 Germans were killed and 1,600 captured, along with the loss of much of their equipment.

Regards

Jim
---------------
Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
London, UK
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Posts: 2475

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 6:16:11 AM

Quote:
Hi Riain

Allied losses amounted to around 1,400 killed or wounded. There were 1,062 Australian casualties (including 800 dead) and 176 American casualties (including between 13 and 26 killed) during the main attack and a further 142 casualties amongst the 15th Brigade during their diversionary assault around Ville. Around 2,000 Germans were killed and 1,600 captured, along with the loss of much of their equipment.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


Not 800 dead Aussies, surely, Jim ?

A couple of hundred, more like.

One fifth, or one quarter, of the casualties in that phase of the war were fatal.

I'll check with CWGC and let you know.

Edit : 278 Australian army deaths throughout France, from all causes, on 4th July 1918. Implies about 250 for the Hamel fight ?

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5294

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 6:33:33 AM
So there were more defenders killed than attackers in this battle. That's interesting.

This was a short battle, really a test run but I think that Monash's experiments with all arms attack showed that it was possible to attack without sustaining the ridiculous casualty rates of the early years of the war. There were ways to conserve the lives of the soldiers.

Having said that, the upcoming Last 100 Days was still costly and it was a war of greater movement.

This is a map from the Australian War Memorial. I am trying to find a map that shows the positions of the US platoons of the 33rd Div., but they were integrated into Australian formations.



Aussies and Yanks together. Any sharp eyes that can separate the American uniforms from the Australian?




I like this picture. It tries to show the all arms nature of the battle




Cheers,

George

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
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Posts: 5294

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 6:42:31 AM
Perhaps we could take Mike Meech up on his offer to describe his research into air and tank involvement during this battle.

What little that I have read indicates that the tanks including newer and faster Mark V's were used not only in combat but also to ferry supplies very quickly up to the front. I don't know whether the role of supply vehicle was by the new, fast tanks or by the older models.

From Australians on the Western Front


Quote:
Their carrier tank, in a number of journeys, had delivered 134 coils of barbed–wire, 180 long and 270 short screw–pickets for placing the wire, 45 sheets of corrugated iron, 50 petrol tins of water, 150 trench–mortar bombs, 10,000 rounds of ammunition, and 20 boxes of grenades.


I was surprised to discover that airplanes were making ammunition drops too.


Quote:
Twelve planes of No 9 Squadron RAF appeared over the battlefield about 6.30 am carrying ammunition while a host of other British planes appeared and engaged enemy ground positions well to the German rear. The ammunition carriers dropped their loads of two boxes of 1,200 rounds by parachute from about 800 metres. In all, 93 boxes were delivered to the infantry in this way and many units reported the experiment useful.



And yet for all the advanced communication systems in place, there was room for this:



Cheers,

George


anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 5947
http:// 82.44.47.99
Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 6:48:50 AM
You have to be correct Phil-Australian Dead cannot be more than 200-250 max.Serve me right for accepting such a ludicrous figure without checking.Could be the 800 was actually 80

Regards

Jim
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Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
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Posts: 669

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 10:52:26 AM
The troops in George's picture are Americans. The canteens and canteen cups are American.
Generally speaking, equipment is a better indication than uniforms. It wasn't unusual for U.S. troops serving with the British to be issued British uniforms if their own wore out or were damaged. Ammo belts and haversacks are a good indication of who is who.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5294

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 12:33:21 PM

Quote:
The troops in George's picture are Americans. The canteens and canteen cups are American.
Generally speaking, equipment is a better indication than uniforms. It wasn't unusual for U.S. troops serving with the British to be issued British uniforms if their own wore out or were damaged. Ammo belts and haversacks are a good indication of who is who.
--Jim Cameron


Thanks for that Jim. The caption that did not appear said that there were Americans and Australians in the photo but I couldn't see a difference.

So what make of rifle are those pointing to the left?

What is that larger barrel pointing to the right? I thought that it could be the cooling element on the barrel of a Lewis gun but I'm not sure.

Cheers,

George

anemone
DONCASTER S. YORKS, UK
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Posts: 5947
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Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 12:50:02 PM
The Armstrong Whitworth FK8 reconaissance aircraft was quite large by WW1 standards


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Regards

Jim
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Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
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E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 669

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/3/2017 1:33:06 PM

Quote:

Thanks for that Jim. The caption that did not appear said that there were Americans and Australians in the photo but I couldn't see a difference.

So what make of rifle are those pointing to the left?

What is that larger barrel pointing to the right? I thought that it could be the cooling element on the barrel of a Lewis gun but I'm not sure.

Cheers,

George

--George


Entirely possible some of the men in the photo are Australian. Hard to tell from the uniforms alone.
The rifles are British Short Magazine Lee Enfield's, the standard rifle of the BEF. American troops serving with the British were commonly issued British rifles, to ease ammunition supply. U.S. ammo belts could be used with British ammunition, so that caused no problems.
The larger weapon is indeed a Lewis gun, also issued to make ammo supply easier. The jacket around the aluminum cooling radiator is quite distinctive.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

wazza
Sydney , Australia
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E-6 Staff Sergeant
Posts: 342

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 2:51:42 AM

Quote:
The troops in George's picture are Americans. The canteens and canteen cups are American.
Generally speaking, equipment is a better indication than uniforms. It wasn't unusual for U.S. troops serving with the British to be issued British uniforms if their own wore out or were damaged. Ammo belts and haversacks are a good indication of who is who.
--Jim Cameron


Yes the majority are Americans but the fellow closest to us is definitely Australian.
Americans don't wear Australian rising sun flashes on their collars.
Photograph is in the Australian War memorial collection where you can see the uniform details a lot clearer.

MikeMeech
UK
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E-5 Sergeant
Posts: 303

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 7:46:05 AM

Quote:
Perhaps we could take Mike Meech up on his offer to describe his research into air and tank involvement during this battle.

What little that I have read indicates that the tanks including newer and faster Mark V's were used not only in combat but also to ferry supplies very quickly up to the front. I don't know whether the role of supply vehicle was by the new, fast tanks or by the older models.

From Australians on the Western Front


Quote:
Their carrier tank, in a number of journeys, had delivered 134 coils of barbed–wire, 180 long and 270 short screw–pickets for placing the wire, 45 sheets of corrugated iron, 50 petrol tins of water, 150 trench–mortar bombs, 10,000 rounds of ammunition, and 20 boxes of grenades.


I was surprised to discover that airplanes were making ammunition drops too.


Quote:
Twelve planes of No 9 Squadron RAF appeared over the battlefield about 6.30 am carrying ammunition while a host of other British planes appeared and engaged enemy ground positions well to the German rear. The ammunition carriers dropped their loads of two boxes of 1,200 rounds by parachute from about 800 metres. In all, 93 boxes were delivered to the infantry in this way and many units reported the experiment useful.



And yet for all the advanced communication systems in place, there was room for this:



Cheers,

George


--George


Hi

The actual supply tanks were older types I believe. The supplies they were to take forward were laid down in the pre-battle instructions, for example 'Administrative Instruction issued in connection with 4th Aust. Inf. Brigade Order No. 18' dated 30/6/1918 (AWM RCDTG1008436) list all the brigade's units supplies, plus the supplies carried by the Supply Tanks, one for the 13th Battalion and one for the 15th Battalion. It also states that: "Additional S.A.A. will be taken forward by Fighting Tanks and also by aeroplane."

We have to put the air supply of ammunition in the context of the total supply task, it was a useful addition but not the main source of supply. That said it is of interest. First we should remember it was not the first time air supply had been used, however, I believe it was the first time that ammunition had been dropped in these 'larger' quantities. This was done using Captain Wackett's (of 3 Sqn. AFC) design of dropping gear, modified 25 lbs. bomb rack fitted with square clips to take SAA boxes plus two sheet metal cans to take the parachutes (details available in AIR 1/1083/204/5/1704).
On the day the drops were undertaken by No. 9 Sqn. RAF, not 3 Sqn. AFC as the latter were engaged in Contact, Counter Attack and Artillery Patrols. No. 9 Sqns. Record Book records that the first drop was undertaken by Lts. Newton and Reynolds in RE.8 B21, taking off at 5.45 am and landing at 6.20 am. During this flight they dropped 2 cases off SAA, also coming under MG fire, they returned fire with 50 rounds from the Vickers and 100 rounds from the Lewis.
During the battle there was occasional failure of the bomb racks to release the cases.
The dropping points were marked on the ground by 6 ft. by 1 ft. white cloth strips, forward dumps with an 'N', and MG positions requiring ammunition with a 'V'. The ammunition dropping aircraft were marked with the underside of the lower plane painted black for a distance of 2 1/2 feet from the tip.
Other support aircraft from No. 3 Sqn. AFC were marked with a streamer from the right hand strut if on Counter Attack Patrol duties or with two small black flags, about one foot square, on the training edge of the lower plane. These details were contained in the Fourth Australian Division's 'Instruction No. 2 issued under Divisional Order No. 128. Aircraft.' dated 2nd July, 1918.
Tank support FK.8s tended to have a painted black line under the tail plane. All these markings were variations on what had been used since 1916.
It is of interest to note that the requirement of air dropping ammunition and petrol supplies to Tanks had been discussed in correspondence between Elles and Salmond during May 1918, it was considered that "Petrol, ammunition, etc., could be dropped, but the former only in small quantities. Very careful pre-arrangement would be necessary." (Letter Salmond to GHQ dated 29th may, 1918. The reality was that tanks tended to be taken out of action before running out of fuel or ammunition, returning to their own dumps.

Mike

MikeMeech
UK
top 30
E-5 Sergeant
Posts: 303

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 10:53:30 AM
Hi

Reference No. 8 Sqn. supporting the Tanks at Hamel here is an entry from the Squadron Record Book containing the report of Capt. West (later VC) and Lt. Haslam for there 2 hr. 5 min. flight (Tank Contact Patrol) from 4 am to 6.05 am on 4 July 1918, this gives an airman's view of part of the battle. West was Flight Commander of 'B' Flight, the mission was regarded as 'Successful':

"Behind a very effective smoke barrage tanks and infantry went over. The ones going over towards VILLERS BRETONNEUX & ST. QUENTIN ROAD did not seem to find much opposition, and got as far as the barrage. On having reached the objective they came back, the majority of the men of the tanks walking in the open by the tanks. A group making for HAMEL WOOD to HAMEL & strong points found more opposition. 4 tanks S. of HAMEL making for strong points in P10 were heavily shelled. Many German troops came out of their trenches running towards our lines. 4.35 am 1 tank P3c9.8. 4.40 am. 4 tanks at distances of about 70 yards in front of strong points P4b & d. 4.35 am (sic) 1 tank in centre of HAMEL where a house was on fire. 5 am. 3 tanks E. of HAMEL WOOD in P15. At 5 am. the tanks whose objective was by the ST. QUENTIN ROAD were coming back. 1 male tank put up a good show in P16b near the edge of the wood. He was fired on by a few field guns near a group of huts in CAILLY. 4 25 lb bombs dropped & MG fired from 800'. The action of the enemy against aircraft was very small. EA nil, and very few A.A. batteries fired. We met with a considerable amount of rifle & MG fire when crossing the ST. QUENTIN ROAD, and E. of CAILLY. 6 am. 7 tanks were stationary behind a ridge behind VAIRE WOOD and 2 more tanks seemed to be making for this place. 1 tank waved a red & yellow flag in P9d2.8. This at about 6 am. Even when flying below 200' we had difficulty in distinguishing the flags."

The 'flag' was supposed to be waved to indicate the tank was 'disabled', however, they were difficult to see from the air, as West points out. LM's 'History' states that: "The flags were consequently not used again for this purpose."

It should be remembered that the tanks followed the infantry in this battle, as they had in others, with a creeping barrage in front of the infantry. The heavy artillery concentrated on counter-battery work, which was 'un-registered' as at Cambrai. The mist aided the infantry result but gave the air support some problems, a few tanks also 'lost their way' because of the mist.

Mike

Jim Cameron
North Bellmore, NY, USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 669

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 11:06:04 AM

Quote:


Yes the majority are Americans but the fellow closest to us is definitely Australian.
Americans don't wear Australian rising sun flashes on their collars.
Photograph is in the Australian War memorial collection where you can see the uniform details a lot clearer.
--wazza


Agreed. He also seems to have some sort of shoulder sleeve insignia, which again would not be a feature of American uniforms.
---------------
Jim Cameron

Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Posts: 5294

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 11:08:26 AM
Thanks MIke. I love the reports from the airmen who were actually there.

How did the newer tanks differ from the older ones. I noticed that the flier mentioned a "male" tank. Were the male and female designation still used in the newer tanks?

Cheers,

George

MikeMeech
UK
top 30
E-5 Sergeant
Posts: 303

Re: Hamel-A Textbook Victory--4 July 1918
Posted on: 5/4/2017 11:54:27 AM

Quote:
Thanks MIke. I love the reports from the airmen who were actually there.

How did the newer tanks differ from the older ones. I noticed that the flier mentioned a "male" tank. Were the male and female designation still used in the newer tanks?

Cheers,

George
--George

Hi

Male (6 pdr. + MGs) and Female (all MG armament) were still produced in the Mk. V type. This had a more powerful engine than the Mk. IV, slightly thicker armour, weighed a ton more and was slightly faster. However, the engine radiator was inside the tank (for protection) but the ventilation was not adequate, which had some consequences for the crew.

Mike

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