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The current time is: 11/20/2017 2:23:39 PM
 (1939-1945) WWII Battles
AuthorMessage
Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
Posts: 2864
The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/4/2017 9:31:26 AM
The Japanese Military planned to take Port Moresby, and Guadalcanal were a plan to separate and defeat Australia and the US. Luckily counter measures by the Allies foiled these plans! Here is a excellent article from MHO member Paul S Teague on the subject!

[Read More]

Certainly some of the most fierce and completive fighting in the Pacific happened at this time! Certainly the issue was in doubt at this time early in WWII Pacific theater!

[Read More]

What say you?
MD

BTW MHO Articles are a great way to learn more history, I suggest checking them out on a regular basis!
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/4/2017 12:45:28 PM
Taking Morseby would have lengthened the supply line US-AUS. It wouldn't have cost either party the war.

wazza
Sydney , Australia
Posts: 351
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/4/2017 5:08:50 PM
The Japanese certainly wanted to isolate Australia and force her to surrender, not sure how serious a full on invasion was, or what they could achieve if they did land in the 'Top end' of Oz.

Similar to Napoleon in Russia, vast distances, little food or water. Poor roads and a hostile local population, or at the very least an army fighting for their homeland.

Would have been an interesting scenario to see occur.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/4/2017 7:22:28 PM
Japan's plans were rather grandiose.

wazza
Sydney , Australia
Posts: 351
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/5/2017 12:48:10 AM
Well, they had quite a successful start to their campaign of conquest.......

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/5/2017 5:34:38 AM

Quote:
Well, they had quite a successful start to their campaign of conquest.......
--wazza

And not a chance in Hell of keeping what they took. They wildly over-extended their empire and were left with a perimeter that was totally porous and forces that couldn't be maintained or reinforced.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
Posts: 2864
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/5/2017 10:01:42 AM
Yes OP

It was quite ambitious of the IJN to think they could take on the US, British Empire, China, & Russia, all at once??

Brave or stupid??
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/5/2017 11:45:18 AM
Desperate. Couldn't stop the war in China, couldn't win the war in China, but the loss of face at just walking away was impossible to bear. They talked themselves into a no-win scenario because they couldn't consider any other course of action.

A War It Was Always Going to Lose: Why Japan Attacked America in 1941 Hardcover – November 1, 2010
by Jeffrey Record (Author)

Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War http://ibiblio.org/pha/monos/

This a series of five monographs dealing with Japan's political and military strategy from the time of the Manchurian Incident to the outbreak of the Pacific War.

The information contained herein was compiled by Rear Admiral Sadatoshi Tomioka, former Chief of Operational Section, Imperial General Headquarters, from official documents as well as from private records.


Title Mono No
Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War, Part I 144
Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War, Part II 146
Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War, Part III 147
Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War, Part IV 150

Political Strategy Prior to the Outbreak of War, Part V 152

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
Posts: 2864
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/7/2017 7:51:01 PM
I don't know but if Japan had won and continued to hold New Guinea & the Solomon Islands,

it would have been much tougher on the Allies!?
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 1390
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/7/2017 9:51:07 PM
Wazza, want to share a bit more about Australia's predicament in those early years of the Pacific War? IIRC, it was trying to pry it's own active soldiers loose from British use of them in the NA and ME campaigns, without a lot of luck. And am I correct in saying that – whatever the precise terms of engagement – Oz had similar training differences between those designed for overseas service and those remaining at home for homeland defence?

I agree with Opana that this was a war that Japan couldn't win. I simply argue that it might have looked different to an Aussie or a native Singaporese or a Burmese or an Indian or an Indonesian at the time. Hindsight is wonderful, and usually pretty accurate. But by the fall of Singapore, the expansion of the Japanese Empire was astonishing, and there was little to suggest the expansion could be stopped. The RN, after the defeat of Singapore, retreated to Trincomalee. In effect, the Dutch navy ceased to exist. Japan had taken control of all European land in the Far East, including Indochina, British holdings in Siam and the Malay peninsula, the Dutch East Indies.

To be honest, I don't think the aim of IJN or other Japanese forces was to cut Australia off from the US. I think it was to take Australia, and after it New Zealand. It was to strangle the remnants of the British Empire in order to rid Asia of British rule. The US and both Oz and the Kiwis fell into military agreements because Britain had demonstrated how weak it was in Asia. But the US wasn't anything but a paper tiger at the time. Knocked out of their China Station; knocked out of Wake; knocked out of the Philippines; castrated at Pearl Harbor: not exactly a "knight in shining armour"!

Japan's primary error, IMHO, was a pre-war belief that US forces (or, from a different perspective, US government) would be unwilling to commit to a lengthy war. Cold-bloodedly, Japan could negotiate over Wake and the Philippines, and assumed that negotiations with an enemy defeated de facto would be successful.

Was the Japanese move a sensible one? Hard to say, though in hindsight they weren't up to the task. What other alternatives did they have? Some kind of assault against Siberian Russia, given the ongoing success of Barbarossa in the West? Might have made sense, and might have satisfied the loss of face Japan's Manchurian Army had suffered when defeated by the Russians in 1939. But Siberia met few other needs. Japan needed rubber, oil, food and other essential materials. These were found to the south. There were also racial and propagandistic issues in moving south.

There is every indication that many Japanese figures of importance (military, diplomatic and civilian) knew Japanese thinking was misdirected. The point is, they made their move and were incredibly successful. I think it important to keep the Pacific war within a temporal framework.

Cheers
Brian G
---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 5:34:57 AM
They were so successful they got themselves nuked.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 6:22:06 AM

Quote:
They were so successful they got themselves nuked.
--OpanaPointer


I'm not sure that anyone deserved that OP.

I would like to think that had the US known exactly what the consequences of dropping those weapons would have been, they would have reconsidered and taken another tact. It was known how powerful this weapon was but were the Americans surprised by the results when they saw them? I hope that they were and shocked sufficiently that they would not contemplate a war of nuclear weapons.


Given the noises emanating from the commander in chief these days, I think that it is cavalier to contemplate that another Asian country may, "get itself nuked" if it doesn't tow the line.

As well, the western view is that the aggressive and militaristic expansion goals by the Japanese led to their demise. In war, they bit off too much.

But did they have legitimate complaints about the western imperial powers who controlled vast areas of Asia.

Japan wanted to be top dog in that area of the world and were perfectly willing to inflict harm and damage on those in their way. And they did.

But did the Japanese and the other Asian nations have legitimate reason to be hostile toward the white nations in their midst?

Cheers,

George

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 7:29:10 AM
Where did I say they "deserved" it?

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 8:28:24 AM

Quote:
Where did I say they "deserved" it?
--OpanaPointer


That's what I felt was implied.

These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

Your comment "got themselves nuked" seemed to suggest that that was a natural consequence.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 8:38:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Where did I say they "deserved" it?
--OpanaPointer


That's what I felt was implied.

These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

Your comment "got themselves nuked" seemed to suggest that that was a natural consequence.

--George

You read what you wanted to read there, not what I said. Bad habit to get into.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 8:54:12 AM
OK, it seems that you think that your statement was clear with no intended or unintended meaning.

If so then there is no need to expand on your motivation for making the original statement in the manner that you did.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 8:55:41 AM
It was a simple statement of fact.

BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 9:09:00 AM
These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

 According to who? Why in the world would "these times" be any more sensitive than in the past, and what do "these times" have to do with operations in World War II?

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 9:13:22 AM

Quote:
These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

 According to who? Why in the world would "these times" be any more sensitive than in the past, and what do "these times" have to do with operations in World War II?

Cheers

BW
--BWilson

Just a rationalization, which is why I ignored it.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 9:32:58 AM

Quote:
These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

 According to who? Why in the world would "these times" be any more sensitive than in the past, and what do "these times" have to do with operations in World War II?

Cheers

BW
--BWilson


There is heightened tension over North Korea right now as you know. The Commander in Chief is viewed by some as having a rather twitchy finger.

I am somewhat perplexed that you disagree that the current stand-off with North Korea does not create greater sensitivity toward the possibility of nuclear war.

And so I felt that OP's comment was rather cavalier. Perhaps I am not the only one.

The actions in Aug. of 1945 have informed and impacted the thoughts of many people who grew up in that post war generation and who are concerned that the same thing may happen again. We watch the position of the Doomsday Clock with trepidation right now.

If my concerns that a nuclear exchange could develop out of problems with North Korea seem unfounded to you, they are still very real to me.

Cheers,

George

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
Posts: 2864
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 9:39:12 AM
Good point George!
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 10:35:36 AM
Maybe so, but that doesn't make your post about your assumptions about my possible innuendos at all sensible.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 11:16:57 AM

Quote:
Maybe so, but that doesn't make your post about your assumptions about my possible innuendos at all sensible.
--OpanaPointer


Then was it sarcasm? Were you talking about retributive justice? Logical consequence of starting a war that it could not finish?

Just curious.

Your original post wasn't vicious or mean but it was worded in such a way that I read it twice to determine what message you were sending.

Perhaps you could be a tad more voluble when you post lest you be misinterpreted again.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 11:21:35 AM
Please stop trying to dig yourself out of the hole you made.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 11:35:53 AM

Quote:
Please stop trying to dig yourself out of the hole you made.
--OpanaPointer


You must be kidding OP. I dug no hole nor will I apologize for my statements, if that is what you are waiting for.

I think that they are still valid and since you have given no explanation for what you said initially, I will continue to make assumptions.

Right now you seem intent on convincing yourself that I made an untoward comment. It was not an attack but in the face of such scanty commentary, one must fill in the blanks that you choose not to.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 11:40:33 AM

Quote:
nor will I apologize for my statements,

That's what I was waiting for.

BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 12:19:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:
These are sensitive times surrounding any discussion of nukes.

 According to who? Why in the world would "these times" be any more sensitive than in the past, and what do "these times" have to do with operations in World War II?

Cheers

BW
--BWilson


There is heightened tension over North Korea right now as you know. The Commander in Chief is viewed by some as having a rather twitchy finger.

I am somewhat perplexed that you disagree that the current stand-off with North Korea does not create greater sensitivity toward the possibility of nuclear war.

And so I felt that OP's comment was rather cavalier. Perhaps I am not the only one.

The actions in Aug. of 1945 have informed and impacted the thoughts of many people who grew up in that post war generation and who are concerned that the same thing may happen again. We watch the position of the Doomsday Clock with trepidation right now.

If my concerns that a nuclear exchange could develop out of problems with North Korea seem unfounded to you, they are still very real to me.

Cheers,

George

--George


George,

 That is current affairs and your personal political opinions. Take it to LFF. It does NOT belong in the World War II forum.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 2:16:11 PM

Quote:
According to who? Why in the world would "these times" be any more sensitive than in the past, and what do "these times" have to do with operations in World War II?


Asked and answered BW, right in the thread in which it was posed.

This whole conversation is a tempest in a teapot.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 2:47:47 PM
You make good tempests.

richto90
Bremerton, WA, USA
Posts: 403
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 2:57:33 PM

Quote:
You make good tempests.
--OpanaPointer


But in a very fragile teapot.

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 528
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 4:14:39 PM
deja vu all over again!
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/8/2017 5:02:01 PM
Feels like junior high. Pile on boys.

BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 1:00:24 AM

Quote:
Feels like junior high. Pile on boys.
--George


George,

 Quite to the contrary. The adult thing to do is for you to realize you went off-topic for the "WWII Battles" forum, and move your comments to LFF. And it is quite adult for others in this forum to not want LFF-type commentary here and ask you to take it the appropriate forum.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

George
Centre Hastings, ON, Canada
Posts: 5533
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 6:24:35 AM
People comment on anything that they wish and it is quite common for people to ask others to clarify.

Threads head off on tangents all the time and then pull back. People are challenged on their views. Their maturity level is not questioned.

This time, the tangent was longer than I expected or wanted but I will defend my position if challenged. I was and I was challenged multiple times and accused of rationalization.

No clarification of the initial comment was offered other than, "just stating a fact". Well, I do not appreciate the way that that fact was stated.

I found the initial comment to be rather glib and insensitive and I still do.

The exchange of comments between OP and me went from there. Examine the exchange.

I consider many of the tweet length responses after the first two to be baiting and indeed I took the bait.

Last word to you if you want it. I am finished here.




BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 6:30:19 AM
 Actually, MHO is organized into topic-oriented forums. People comment on anything they wish, but is expected that the comments be placed in the appropriate forum. Your comment about "these days" belongs in LFF.

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 11:38:07 AM

Quote:
They were so successful they got themselves nuked.
--OpanaPointer


 In "defense of Japan", though, foreseeing such an outcome was unlikely. Foreseeing an Allied counterattack is something else, though. Again, I believe the Japanese realized, after sinking no carriers at Pearl Harbor, they had to defeat the U.S. carrier force to have any chance of holding onto their vastly extended empire.

 A significant advantage for the U.S. were the inroads that were made into reading coded Japanese messages. Certainly was a factor at the Battle of Midway. After Midway and Guadalcanal, perceptive Japanese military leaders should have realized how the was going to end ... but I would guess Bushido got in the way of any notions of pulling back or offering to negotiate. A measure of how fierce that mentality was is that it took two A-bombs to break it.

Cheers,

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 11:53:15 AM
I didn't say they foresaw the outcome. I do think that they didn't see any other course than attack that was available to them that would allow them to save face. They couldn't leave China because it would dishonor the Japanese who had died there. They couldn't continue the war in China with the resources they had. They basically swan dived at that point, hoping a mattress would somehow appear under them.

BWilson
, Posts: 3449
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 12:08:07 PM

Quote:
I didn't say they foresaw the outcome. I do think that they didn't see any other course than attack that was available to them that would allow them to save face. They couldn't leave China because it would dishonor the Japanese who had died there. They couldn't continue the war in China with the resources they had. They basically swan dived at that point, hoping a mattress would somehow appear under them.
--OpanaPointer


OP,

 Understand. I am curious about your statement about the war in China. I had the impression that war was mostly static apart from occasional large battles. Why could Japan not have continued with that war as it was -- the impending shortage of oil ?

Cheers

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 12:14:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:
I didn't say they foresaw the outcome. I do think that they didn't see any other course than attack that was available to them that would allow them to save face. They couldn't leave China because it would dishonor the Japanese who had died there. They couldn't continue the war in China with the resources they had. They basically swan dived at that point, hoping a mattress would somehow appear under them.
--OpanaPointer


OP,

 Understand. I am curious about your statement about the war in China. I had the impression that war was mostly static apart from occasional large battles. Why could Japan not have continued with that war as it was -- the impending shortage of oil ?

Cheers

BW

--BWilson

They had less than two years oil if they continued war operations in China. Six years if they withdrew. They could give up in China or fight a war they probably couldn't win for oil to continue that war. The sad thing is they had told Showa that they only needed one more year to complete the conquest of China. They told him this in 1938, 1939, 1940, and 1941. He expressed some doubts but had no way to overrule the decisions of the Big Six ministers (the six senior ministers in his cabinet, Prime Minister, War, Navy, Foreign, Head of the Navy, Head of the Army) We should note that on Dec. 7th, 1941, the Prime Minister and the War Minister were the same person, an active duty General, Tojo Hidecki.

John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre, PA, USA
Posts: 528
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 12:50:46 PM
BW,

I don't believe that the Japanese didn't foresee/anticipate an Allied counterattack but that they would at least initially be able to stall it on their outer defensive perimeter and inflict enough casualties to break the political will of the Allies to continue the fight. In effect their premise was based on a wrong assumption that the Allies wouldn't pay the price in blood to win back what they conquered.

I don't know that the Allies would have given terms that allowed the Japanese any reason to give up after Midway and Guadalcanal. The oil and steal embargo was because of their war in China and occupation of Indochina which was done to gain natural resources they lacked domestically. I mean the whole point of their going to war was to obtain a uninterruptable stream of cheep natural resources for their economy and military and we weren't going to let them keep those conquests nor feed both the economy and Japanese military the resources they wanted.
---------------
A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country.
"to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"


OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/9/2017 1:04:40 PM
Oh, they were certain the Allies would respond, they just hoped they would have time to get what they needed and build up an insurmountable defense. I don't think the Army realized deep down that the Pacific was mostly "empty air".

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
Posts: 2864
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/15/2017 3:11:50 PM
op,

That's one thing about the Pacific the Ocean is so vast,

it's almost impossible to hold territory against good navies!?

What say you?
MD
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/15/2017 4:35:15 PM

Quote:
op,

That's one thing about the Pacific the Ocean is so vast,

it's almost impossible to hold territory against good navies!?

What say you?
MD

--Michigan Dave

IT's almost impossible to hold territory WITH good navies. If there had been a serious threat to our supply lines and rear areas immediately adjacent to the "front" we'd have had to have a much larger military structure. Fortunately, the Japanese were never willing to consider "logistics, logistics, logistics" as a valid strategy guide.

brian grafton
Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 1390
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/15/2017 9:02:21 PM
Opana, I tend to agree with you.

I assumed at the time you posted that you were responding to my comment: "The point is, they made their move and were incredibly successful."

But I also said: "I think it important to keep the Pacific war within a temporal framework." In late 1941, Britain, France, Holland and the US boasted control of much of the various Asias, either by conquest, treaty, control, trade or some other means. Six months later, white nations had lost their power bases. Britain had lost Hong Kong, the Malay States, and Singapore, and were being challenged in Burma. India, the jewel in the crown, was less than supportive of the Brits, and had citizens fighting against GB in sites as far apart as Burma and Germany. France and Holland, already non-existent states (except for governments-in-exile) lost Indochina and Indonesia. The US lost small atolls and the Philippines, though not Midway. Australia was under threat, and New Zealand, an even smaller nation but with a commitment to Britain, was in no better position.

I put that down as pretty good soldiering, to be honest. And that's why I said they were incredibly successful.

Did it last? No. But as you suggest (even if you meant it only ironically) the Bushido cult of the warrior became so fearsome that the use of nukes was seen as the "best" solution.

Cheers
Brian G
---------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.

"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

OpanaPointer
St. Louis, MO, USA
Posts: 504
Re: The Japanese plans to cut off Australia from America in WWII!?
Posted on: 11/16/2017 6:35:50 AM
I didn't suggest that the atomic bombs were the best solution. They were part of a total package. The fact that Gen. Marshall was to be given ten more bombs for use in the invasion of Japan tell us that the US was not certain that two would end the war. The Allies were faced with the possibility that the war would end when the last military man in Japan was dead.