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(1863) Battle of Gettysburg
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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows
PA USA
Posts: 899
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/4/2020 8:36:06 AM

Looking for some sources concerning the arrival times on July 1st for Cutlers and the Iron brigade. In the 1880's several members of the Iron brigade were adamant in articles published in the National Tribune that they were first in divisional march and fired the first infantry volleys on July 1. If Cutlers brigade was first on the field and opened the infantry fighting shouldn't the Iron brigade members have heard the firing approaching the battlefield. Also the 14th Brooklyn and 95th NY had been detached and left in the vicinity of the McPherson farm. It seems these two regiments would have been seen by the Iron brigade also. Could excitement and tunnel vision be the culprits?

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan
MI USA
Posts: 5711
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/4/2020 8:00:32 PM

Larry,

At 1st I thought you meant Custer"s Brigade!?

[Read More]

Sorry, my bad!?
MD

Also here is a fascinating video on surviving Confederate Soldiers in Jacksonville, FL. in 1914!

[Read More]

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London
 UK
Posts: 4347
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/7/2020 6:14:19 AM

Quote:
Looking for some sources concerning the arrival times on July 1st for Cutlers and the Iron brigade. In the 1880's several members of the Iron brigade were adamant in articles published in the National Tribune that they were first in divisional march and fired the first infantry volleys on July 1. If Cutlers brigade was first on the field and opened the infantry fighting shouldn't the Iron brigade members have heard the firing approaching the battlefield. Also the 14th Brooklyn and 95th NY had been detached and left in the vicinity of the McPherson farm. It seems these two regiments would have been seen by the Iron brigade also. Could excitement and tunnel vision be the culprits?

Larry


First Brigade, First Division , First Corps of the First Army of the Grand Republic ! Too many “ Firsts” here...let alone the First Day of the battle......no doubt there was a wish to have fired the “ First Shots” too !

The history of battles is dangerously susceptible to the impact of wishful thinking ; and, of all battles, is there any more enticing in this respect than Gettysburg ?

It must be said, though, that the authentic narrative of the Iron Brigade is so inspiring that no embellishment is necessary.

Regards , Phil

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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
Posts: 2596
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/7/2020 11:28:00 AM

The men of Cutler`s brigade would have heard the firing of Buford`s men as they went in...I doubt that men about to go into a fight could tell, by ear alone, if it was infantry volleys or cavalry volleys...cavalry guns or infantry artillery firing up ahead....or a mix of both before Buford withdrew.

Cutler`s left was being overlapped as Reynold`s located the Iron Brigade and started to order them to work.

I think it likely that, in the years after the war, men of the Iron Brigade started to leave out the "among" in the claim "we were among the first infantry to engage at Gettysburg."

Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Wayne Wachsmuth
Shippensburg
PA USA
Posts: 245
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/7/2020 2:47:03 PM

One of the early issues of Gettysburg Magazine had a good article on the controversy and showed conclusively that Wadsworth's people north of the pike (Cutler) had fired the first volley. Can't remember at this remove which volume but those with access should be able to find it.

Wayne
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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows
PA USA
Posts: 899
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/9/2020 9:04:20 AM

Thanks Wayne. I have most of the early issues of Gettysburg magazine. I'll check and see what I can find.

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
GregT
Three Rivers
MA USA
Posts: 114
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/9/2020 12:43:21 PM

Hi Larry.

I think your looking for Issue #2, Old Soldiers and War Talk by Lance Herdegen.

GregT
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Nick Spencer
IOW,United kingdom
 UK
Posts: 121
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/26/2020 9:38:43 AM

Quote:
Looking for some sources concerning the arrival times on July 1st for Cutlers and the Iron brigade. In the 1880's several members of the Iron brigade were adamant in articles published in the National Tribune that they were first in divisional march and fired the first infantry volleys on July 1. If Cutlers brigade was first on the field and opened the infantry fighting shouldn't the Iron brigade members have heard the firing approaching the battlefield. Also the 14th Brooklyn and 95th NY had been detached and left in the vicinity of the McPherson farm. It seems these two regiments would have been seen by the Iron brigade also. Could excitement and tunnel vision be the culprits?

Larry

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gettysburg-Campaign-Study-Command/dp/0684845695

Pages 269 are concerned with who fired the first volley, and the post war claims ( 1884 2nd Wisconson) are dealt with in note 47 to 50. Cutler at the time ( Nov 63 ) wrote 56th PA under Hoffman,fired first, before Iron brigade had arrived.

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Jim Cameron
Ossining
NY USA
Posts: 897
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/27/2020 6:08:09 PM

Quote:
One of the early issues of Gettysburg Magazine had a good article on the controversy and showed conclusively that Wadsworth's people north of the pike (Cutler) had fired the first volley. Can't remember at this remove which volume but those with access should be able to find it.

Wayne


Agree with Wayne that it has been demonstrated pretty conclusively Cutler's brigade engaged north of the pike before the Iron Brigade. Although even there an ongoing dispute lingered as to whether the 56th PA or 76th NY got in the first volley. Personally, I go with the 56th PA.
I think that much of this was a matter of the Union order of march, combined with Davis' regiments being relatively further east than Archer's, to the south of the pike. Archer may have been somewhat more delayed by Buford's cavalry than Davis.
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Jim Cameron Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.
Wayne Wachsmuth
Shippensburg
PA USA
Posts: 245
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/28/2020 3:37:52 PM

Downsizing to move into a retirement community has done away with much of my library so I'm relying on memory here but I seem to recall that elements of the Iron Brigade were on "picket" duty and spread along the general front of the bivouac area along Marsh Creek and by the time they had all been recalled and the brigade ready to march Cutler was well on the way and out of sight. Add to that, at first there was no rush to get to Gettysburg so no one was expediting up the road, that came later.

Wayne
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Jim Cameron
Ossining
NY USA
Posts: 897
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/28/2020 7:33:10 PM

A lot of people on both sides didn't seem to realize they were running late to the battle that morning.
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Jim Cameron Every time I go to Gettysburg, I learn two things. Something new, and, how much I still don't know.
Phil Andrade
London
 UK
Posts: 4347
Cutlers brigade/Iron brigade arrival times on the battlefield.
Posted on: 3/29/2020 5:33:33 AM

Quote:
A lot of people on both sides didn't seem to realize they were running late to the battle that morning.


XI Corps veterans were probably determined to argue that they were not running early from the battle.

A lot of Gettysburg controversy over time : the Confederate artillery firing prior to the PPT attack, the length of time taken for Longstreet to get ready on Day 2, etc.

All we need is a story about a pocket watch stopping a bullet and saving a life....it would make a change from a Bible !

Editing : Perhaps the name of a prominent rebel general - EARLY - had something to do with his record of command that day !

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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