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(1939-1945) WWII Battles
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Brian Williams
Atlanta
GA USA
Posts: 668

The Battle of Midway 1942
Posted on: 7/21/2019 7:28:31 PM

Really cool amateur youtube video on the battle with 3.2 million views. Incredibly well-done. Kudos.
Has more the 3.2 million views.
His approach is excellent. Put yourself in the shoes and make the decision that needs to be made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo

[Read More]
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan
MI USA
Posts: 5339

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/21/2019 8:23:39 PM

Hi Brian,

I had already seen this video before, & I agree it's very intriguing to look at things from the enemies perspective!

But it's great you posted it, MHO WWII students, can check it out!?

Endorsed by,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Williams
Atlanta
GA USA
Posts: 668

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/21/2019 9:22:10 PM

MD,

Check out his Pearl Harbor video:
[Read More]

Excellent video.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
Posts: 2254

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/22/2019 4:25:10 PM

Wow! Better than alot of stuff on History channel...a truly brilliant, simple, yet entirely detailed, look at what went on at Pearl...and part one of Midway is amazing.

Thanks for posting this!

Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan
MI USA
Posts: 5339

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/22/2019 5:54:08 PM

Quote:
MD,

Check out his Pearl Harbor video:
[Read More]

Excellent video.




Thanks Brian,

When dissected through this video, the IJN air attack on Pearl wasn't nearly as damaging as it could have been!?

[Read More]

The sleeping Giant has awakened!
MD

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Dogsofwar
Franklinville
NJ USA
Posts: 12

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/23/2019 6:42:35 AM

Yes, they missed the oil fields and the drydocks which allowed the U.S. to recover very quickly.
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
Posts: 9807

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/23/2019 7:55:49 AM

Quote:
Yes, they missed the oil fields and the drydocks which allowed the U.S. to recover very quickly.


Were those oil fields and the dry docks objectives for the Japanese? If not, why not?
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Dogsofwar
Franklinville
NJ USA
Posts: 12

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/23/2019 9:04:55 AM

The Japanese had planned a third wave to take out the oil fields and dry docks, but because they had been there so long, they become nervous about where the U.S. carriers were and called it off.
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/25/2019 11:57:33 PM

Quote:
The Japanese had planned a third wave to take out the oil fields and dry docks, but because they had been there so long, they become nervous about where the U.S. carriers were and called it off.


Actually the Japanese never planned on attacking any of the shore facilities other than the airfields. Dry docks, the repair shops, and the oil tank farm weren't even indicated on their aircraft charts.
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DT509er
Santa Rosa
CA USA
Posts: 768

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/26/2019 12:51:12 AM

The purpose of attacking the Midway airfield was to render it useless to US a/c while Japanese transports sailed in without the concern of attacking a/c during the unloading of troops. That need for a second attack was called by the air commander Lt. Tomonaga based on his assessment that the airfield remained useable, just as you mentioned RichT90, the need for another attack was intended to hit the airfield.
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." I take offense to your perception of being offended! “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/26/2019 1:00:14 AM

Quote:
The purpose of attacking the Midway airfield was to render it useless to US a/c while Japanese transports sailed in without the concern of attacking a/c during the unloading of troops. That need for a second attack was called by the air commander Lt. Tomonaga based on his assessment that the airfield remained useable, just as you mentioned RichT90, the need for another attack was intended to hit the airfield.


Sorry, I was responding to the comment about Pearl Harbor, not Midway. There were no dry docks or oil tank farms at Midway, although there were diesel and AVGAS tanks there.
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John R. Price
Wilkes-Barre
PA USA
Posts: 965

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/26/2019 11:47:26 AM

Rich,

Were the submarine facilities and supply, transport and cargo ships part of the target package for a 3rd strike?
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A battle long forgotten by our country in a war never understood by our country. "to satisfy our endless needs and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny and in the name of God"
Dogsofwar
Franklinville
NJ USA
Posts: 12

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/26/2019 2:47:34 PM

I don't know how we went from Midway to Pearl Harbor, but I've read many books about the attack on Pearl Harbor. Although the third wave was not in their original plans, many junior officers tried to get Nagumo to launch it.

Possible third wave:
Several Japanese junior officers including Fuchida and Genda urged Nagumo to carry out a third strike in order to destroy as much of Pearl Harbor's fuel and torpedo[nb 18] storage, maintenance, and dry dock facilities as possible.[103] Genda, who had unsuccessfully advocated for invading Hawaii after the air attack, believed that without an invasion, three strikes were necessary to disable the base as much as possible.[104] The captains of the other five carriers in the task force reported they were willing and ready to carry out a third strike.[105] Military historians have suggested the destruction of these shore facilities would have hampered the U.S. Pacific Fleet far more seriously than the loss of its battleships.[106] If they had been wiped out, "serious [American] operations in the Pacific would have been postponed for more than a year";[107] according to Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, later Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, "it would have prolonged the war another two years."[108] Nagumo, however, decided to withdraw for several reasons:

American anti-aircraft performance had improved considerably during the second strike, and two thirds of Japan's losses were incurred during the second wave.[109]
Nagumo felt if he launched a third strike, he would be risking three quarters of the Combined Fleet's strength to wipe out the remaining targets (which included the facilities) while suffering higher aircraft losses.[109]
The location of the American carriers remained unknown. In addition, the admiral was concerned his force was now within range of American land-based bombers.[109] Nagumo was uncertain whether the U.S. had enough surviving planes remaining on Hawaii to launch an attack against his carriers.[110]
A third wave would have required substantial preparation and turnaround time, and would have meant returning planes would have had to land at night. At the time, only the Royal Navy had developed night carrier techniques, so this was a substantial risk.[111]
The task force's fuel situation did not permit him to remain in waters north of Pearl Harbor much longer, since he was at the very limit of logistical support. To do so risked running unacceptably low on fuel, perhaps even having to abandon destroyers en route home.[112]
He believed the second strike had essentially satisfied the main objective of his mission—the neutralization of the Pacific Fleet—and did not wish to risk further losses.[113] Moreover, it was Japanese Navy practice to prefer the conservation of strength over the total destruction of the enemy.[114]
At a conference aboard his flagship the following morning, Yamamoto supported Nagumo's withdrawal without launching a third wave.[113] In retrospect, sparing the vital dockyards, maintenance shops, and the oil tank farm meant the U.S. could respond relatively quickly to Japanese activities in the Pacific. Yamamoto later regretted Nagumo's decision to withdraw and categorically stated it had been a great mistake not to order a third strike.[115]
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/26/2019 5:05:43 PM

I am curious what you are quoting from? Goldstein and Dillon? Or Prange?
Yes, there is evidence Genda tried to get a third strike inserted in the plan and then argued for it again on the day, but no such strike was incorporated into the plan.
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Dogsofwar
Franklinville
NJ USA
Posts: 12

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/27/2019 8:08:12 AM

I got the quote from Wikipedia, but it is mentioned numerous times online and in books.
And yes, I DID say the third wave was not in their original plans.
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/27/2019 12:00:42 PM

Quote:
I got the quote from Wikipedia, but it is mentioned numerous times online and in books.


The Wiki article references Harry Gailey's 1997 work, which is a one-volume history of the entire Pacific War rather than a detailed examination of the attack, as evidence that "Fuchida and Genda urged Nagumo" to execute a third wave attack. However, the actual evidence for them doing so or for just how detailed the argument was remains weak. Fuchida's memoirs are notoriously unreliable, but Genda did state he tried to get Nagumo to stay long enough in Hawaiian waters to execute more attacks. Whether they argued together or at different times is unclear, but it is clear that Nagumo refused.

Quote:
And yes, I DID say the third wave was not in their original plans.


And so did I, but after reviewing my old material on the attack I realized that is in fact not quite true. Genda's original plan included additional attacks on the base facilities as well as an invasion force, but both were initially rejected. After much urging, Genda did get Nagumo to insert into the attack order:

"Immediately after the return of the first and second attack units [the “waves” constituting the first attack], preparations for the next attack will be completed. at this time, carrier attack planes capable of carrying torpedoes will be armed with such as long as the supply lasts. If the destruction of enemy land-based air strength progress-es favorably, repeated attacks will be made immediately and thus decisive results will be achieved."

However, it is clear that Nagumo only intended to attack until the result he and Yamamoto desired, the destruction of a significant part of the battle line, was achieved. When the second wave landed and reported the loss of at least two or more battleships and damage to others, Nagumo ordered the return to Japan and by doglegging north and west, so taking them away from any chance of an attack the next day.

Significantly, Genda and others attest that it was impossible in any case to execute a third wave attack on 7 December, given the seas were too rough by that point. Given they remained rough for at least two more days, Genda's plan to execute attacks during the withdrawal could not have happened either. Finally, Genda never planned on attacking the oil tank farms, apparently believing them to extensive and dispersed to be worthwhile. He envisioned hitting the repair yards, machine shops, and the like, although given none of the pilots charts indicated where those were that would have been problematic.
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Dogsofwar
Franklinville
NJ USA
Posts: 12

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/29/2019 4:55:43 AM

Thank you for clarifying that. Like I tell the wife, you learn something new every day.
Where in Franklinville are you from? I'm on Porchtown Road.
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/29/2019 10:18:49 AM

Quote:
Thank you for clarifying that. Like I tell the wife, you learn something new every day.
Where in Franklinville are you from? I'm on Porchtown Road.


I'm not? The software change apparently decided to make my profile a mirror of yours, probably since my first reply since the change was a reply to yours?
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Brian Williams
Atlanta
GA USA
Posts: 668

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/29/2019 1:11:02 PM

Quote:

I'm not? The software change apparently decided to make my profile a mirror of yours, probably since my first reply since the change was a reply to yours?

That's strange. I can't seem to replicate it.
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RichTO90
Bremerton
WA USA
Posts: 508

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective
Posted on: 7/29/2019 3:38:55 PM

It is strange...I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out and then I had to go in and correct it on my profile.
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