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 (1939-1945) WWII
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
"Top 10" ~ "Best of ... " ~ or similar ....
12/3/2020 12:07:17 AM
The following is derived from a post and suggestion by another member on another thread ...
Michigan Dave
This day in World History! Volume II
Posted on: 11/23/2020 5:33:05 AM

Wherein he presented the following for consideration ~ discussion;
"Also here are the top 10 fighter planes of WWII, do you agree? Comments?

[Read More]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vB4of_ofGM
[Read More]

& you gentlemen may have something to say on these, the top 10 Bombers of WWII??

[Read More]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s-w4DkquTQ
[Read More] "

Both would appear to be rather subjective lists of the link author's choice, with rather limited quantitative or qualitative factors applied. Nor much in line with any sort of broad survey consensus. Having been involved with similar over the years on other forums, I'm going to take these on and provide some alternative considerations. --- in next post.
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
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12/3/2020 12:35:19 AM
In similar past "lists" there are usually a mix of qualitative and quantitative factors to consider ~score, in making up such "lists".

For the most part I'll restrain for now from comment upon such regarding specific aircraft, but will present them for consideration and further discussion. Think in terms of scoring from "0" (= how the heck did this get built and used) to "10" (best and most advanced design ever from that era). Most aircraft making it into the "Top 10/'Best of' " will score in a total of the upper two-thirds to three-quarters range of the following ten categories.

1) Years in Use and/or Service - Should speak for itself.
2) Years in Production - the longer produced the more likely acceptable and usable the design.
3) Post War (WWII) Use and/or Production - Sign of a workable design if still made and used in post-war era.
4) Numbers Built and Numbers of Users - The more made and the more Nations that used, the more likely this was a workable and acceptable design.
5) Durability - How much maintenance and refit needed, "hanger queen" or not?, how rugged and survivable ~ could it take damage and return to base, bring crew home?
6) Performance and Maneuverability - Did it do as designed to do and/or even better?
7) Pilot(aircrew) Preference - Did those whom flew it like it and want to, or did so with reluctance/reservations?
8) Combat Effectiveness/Results - Did the design do what it was meant to do, or even better? Especially if used in other roles than designed for?
9) Modifications/Upgrades/Improvements - How well did the design render effectively to improvements and adaptations in it's lifespan of use?
10) Capability and Results - Overall, did this design meet and/or exceeded expectations of the design and intended use(s)? Did it deliver acceptable "bang for the buck"?

There's a start. If others can think of other categories and want to present, go for it. I'd suggest this list provides a good start in trying to quantify and qualify any aircraft design on where it should fit on any list of Top~Best from that War.
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17thfabn
Ohio OH USA
Posts: 135
Joined: 2008
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12/5/2020 1:00:39 PM
Quote:
In similar past "lists" there are usually a mix of qualitative and quantitative factors to consider ~score, in making up such "lists".

For the most part I'll restrain for now from comment upon such regarding specific aircraft, but will present them for consideration and further discussion. Think in terms of scoring from "0" (= how the heck did this get built and used) to "10" (best and most advanced design ever from that era). Most aircraft making it into the "Top 10/'Best of' " will score in a total of the upper two-thirds to three-quarters range of the following ten categories.

1) Years in Use and/or Service - Should speak for itself.
2) Years in Production - the longer produced the more likely acceptable and usable the design.
3) Post War (WWII) Use and/or Production - Sign of a workable design if still made and used in post-war era.



I think the first three criteria are not good indicators of how good an aircraft is.

1) Years in service would give a plane like the the Bf-019 lots of points. By 1945 the Bf-109 was out classed by many aircraft.
2) Same as above.
3) Post World War II use. Aircraft design was changing rapidly post war. The USN kept many piston aircraft because early jet powered aircraft were not suitable for aircraft carriers. This gives added points to naval aircraft.
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
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12/7/2020 12:56:18 AM
Whatever ....

In the case of what would become known as World War Two (WW II), we see the major players starting out with combat aircraft inventories still dominated with large numbers of the peak of the bi-wing designs of the mid to late 1930's combined with some of the first mono-wing designs of the late 1930s-early 1940s, yet within six years time we are transitioned towards the earliest of jet-powered combat aircraft replacing the decades old piston powered designs.

Many types and designs, which remained in use and production, often for economic reasons as much as usable ones, were starting to be supplanted by the more advanced ones in the wings of development. Transition of tech and design was the operative "rule of thumb" through out these few years.

Underscores the adage that war is often the quickest and greatest accelerate of technological advances.
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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12/29/2020 5:14:31 PM
From another thread of just over a month ago:
QUOTE:" Also here are the top 10 fighter planes of WWII, do you agree? Comments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vB4of_ofGM
[Read More]

I'll leave to others for now to make the actual list as presented from other source above, in the OP. What follows is "my" list (10) based upon factors and issues also presented above in another post here, & "Comments";

1) Chance-Vought F4U Corsair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F4U_Corsair
[Read More]
This aircraft saw service for better part of 4+ decades, was capable of operating from aircraft carrier(CV) decks, had respectable ruggedness, weapons, and payload abilities. All around one of the best fighters, and fighter-bombers produced in that era. Could still be usable and a contender in many locales even today (IMO).
2) North American P-51 Mustang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang
[Read More]
A close contender to the above Corsair in range, capability, weapons, payload, etc. losing out only in not being CV capable. Remains one of the most desirable on the Warbird Circuit/Community.
3)Supermarine Spitfire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire
[Read More]
Beautiful design lines, excellent performance, only drawback the short legs/range. A classic and iconic mount of the era. Also adaptable to upgrades.
4)Focke-Wulf Fw 190

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
[Read More]
Could easily be bumped up a notch or more on this least, yet ...
QUOTE/EXCERPT:
The Focke-Wulf Fw 190 Würger (English: Shrike) is a German single-seat, single-engine fighter aircraft designed by Kurt Tank at Focke-Wulf in the late 1930s and widely used during World War II. Along with its well-known counterpart, the Messerschmitt Bf 109, the Fw 190 became the backbone of the Jagdwaffe (Fighter Force) of the Luftwaffe. The twin-row BMW 801 radial engine that powered most operational versions enabled the Fw 190 to lift larger loads than the Bf 109, allowing its use as a day fighter, fighter-bomber, ground-attack aircraft and to a lesser degree, night fighter.
5) Mitsubishi A6M Zero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_A6M_Zero
[Read More]
Range, maneuverability, lethal, and CV capable, combined with long service record, etc. all place the 'Zeke' among top contenders here.

....
For brevity sake, cutting at five here and pick up the other five in another post


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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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12/29/2020 5:51:31 PM
Picking back up on "Dave's Top/Best 10 of WWII Fighters":

6) Republic P-47 Thunderbolt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt
[Read More]
Another contender many might want to place higher on the list. The "Jug" was rugged, VERY Lethal, and had range and performance in league with the others here. Few pilots would have balked at going into combat mounted on the Jug, most would have leapt at the chance.

7) Messerschmitt Bf 109

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants
[Read More]
An iconic aircraft and image of the war, one that though eventually outpaced, remained viable and lethal to the end.
EXCERPT/QUOTE:
Due to the Messerschmitt Bf 109's versatility and time in service with the German and foreign air forces, numerous variants were produced in Germany to serve for over eight years with the Luftwaffe. Additional variants were produced abroad totalling in 34,852 Bf 109s built.

8) Lavochkin La-5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin_La-5
[Read More]
More the pinnacle of a design line, including the -3/-7/-9; the Lavochkin La's remain a stable and bsic example of the best of Soviet fighter designs of the era.
" The Lavochkin La-5 (Лавочкин Ла-5) was a Soviet fighter aircraft of World War II. It was a development and refinement of the LaGG-3, replacing the earlier model's inline engine with the much more powerful Shvetsov ASh-82 radial engine. During its time in service, it was one of the Soviet Air Force's most capable types of warplane, able to fight German designs on an equal footing.

9) Grumman F6F Hellcat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat
[Read More]
Both a capable fighter and fighter bomber, and one relatively quick and "cheap" to produce, this would be such an iconic part of USN CV airgroups that towards the end of the war the near majority of aircraft carried would be Hellcats.
" The Grumman F6F Hellcat is an American carrier-based fighter aircraft of World War II. Designed to replace the earlier F4F Wildcat and to counter the Japanese Mitsubishi A6M Zero, it was the United States Navy's dominant fighter in the second half of the Pacific War, outdueling the faster Vought F4U Corsair, which had problems with carrier landings. "

I've a tie for the next bracket since on the one hand we have a design that provided useful service throughout the war in nearly every Allied air force, balanced by a somewhat better design in range and performance use largely by the USAAF which is nearly equal iconic on this level. ...

10~11) Curtiss P-40 Warhawk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-40_Warhawk
[Read More]
" The Curtiss P-40 Warhawk is an American single-engined, single-seat, all-metal fighter and ground-attack aircraft that first flew in 1938. The P-40 design was a modification of the previous Curtiss P-36 Hawk which reduced development time and enabled a rapid entry into production and operational service. The Warhawk was used by most Allied powers during World War II, and remained in frontline service until the end of the war. It was the third most-produced American fighter of World War II, after the P-51 and P-47; by November 1944, when production of the P-40 ceased, 13,738 had been built,[5] all at Curtiss-Wright Corporation's main production facilities at Buffalo, New York.

P-40 Warhawk was the name the United States Army Air Corps gave the plane, and after June 1941, the USAAF adopted the name for all models, making it the official name in the U.S. for all P-40s. The British Commonwealth and Soviet air forces used the name Tomahawk for models equivalent to the original P-40, P-40B, and P-40C, while the name Kittyhawk for models equivalent to the P-40D and all later variants.
... "

10~11) Lockheed P-38 Lightning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning
[Read More]
" The Lockheed P-38 Lightning is an American single seated, piston-engined fighter aircraft that was used during World War II. Developed for the United States Army Air Corps, the P-38 had distinctive twin booms and a central nacelle containing the cockpit and armament. Allied propaganda claimed it had been nicknamed the fork-tailed devil (German: der Gabelschwanz-Teufel) by the Luftwaffe and "two planes, one pilot" by the Japanese.[7] Along with its use as a general fighter, the P-38 was utilized in various aerial combat roles including as a highly effective fighter-bomber,[8] a night fighter,[9] and as a long-range escort fighter when equipped with drop tanks.[10] The P-38 was also used as a bomber-pathfinder, guiding streams of medium and heavy bombers; or even other P-38s, equipped with bombs, to their targets.[11][12] Used in the aerial reconnaissance role, the P-38 accounted for 90 percent of the aerial film captured over Europe.[13][14]

The P-38 was used most successfully in the Pacific Theater of Operations and the China-Burma-India Theater of Operations as the aircraft of America's top aces, Richard Bong (40 victories), Thomas McGuire (38 victories) and Charles H. MacDonald (27 victories). In the South West Pacific theater, the P-38 was the primary long-range fighter of United States Army Air Forces until the introduction of large numbers of P-51D Mustangs toward the end of the war. ... "

....
I'll pick up at a later time with the (11)12~20 rest of this list of Fighters, plus with list of bombers and Attack/CAS; etc.
Domestic errands to attend for now ....
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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12/29/2020 6:24:17 PM
As time and energy avail, I plan to follow up with;
A) Top/Best 10 Bombers, Medium~Heavy; twin-multi engine; i.e. B-29, B-17, PBY, etc.
B) Top/Best 10 Bombers; single-twin engine; Attack/Light/CAS, i.e.; Sturmovik, Stuka, Avenger, etc.
C) Top/Best 10 Cargo/Utility aircraft; i.e.; C-47, C-45, Lysander, etc.

And maybe top/best 11-20 for some categories as well, ....
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DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 959
Joined: 2005
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12/30/2020 2:44:34 PM
"“I fought against all types of Soviet fighters, including those supplied under Lend-Lease, and the Yak-9 was the best,” Luftwaffe ace Gerhard Barkhorn said. "

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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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12/30/2020 3:39:05 PM
Quote:
"“I fought against all types of Soviet fighters, including those supplied under Lend-Lease, and the Yak-9 was the best,” Luftwaffe ace Gerhard Barkhorn said. "


Interesting.
The Yak series is part of my 12-20 list.
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DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 959
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12/30/2020 4:41:48 PM
Rating fighters, bombers, tanks, etc., is a daunting task but I do like your lists. IMO, the F6F stands out for its time and place of service, let alone its record as well as the Spitfire, Thunderbolt and Mustang.
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Killroy63
Pinson AL USA
Posts: 529
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12/31/2020 3:00:45 PM
Quote:


I think the first three criteria are not good indicators of how good an aircraft is.

1) Years in service would give a plane like the the Bf-019 lots of points. By 1945 the Bf-109 was out classed by many aircraft.
2) Same as above.
3) Post World War II use. Aircraft design was changing rapidly post war. The USN kept many piston aircraft because early jet powered aircraft were not suitable for aircraft carriers. This gives added points to naval aircraft.


I would tend to agree here.

The 1939-1945 timeframe saw a complete revolution in terms of aircraft technology.

In 1939, more than a few countries were still producing and fielding bi-planes as frontline aircraft. By 1945, many had jets in combat, and those who did not were at least in the advanced stage of testing them. Air combat in 1946 would have been, with regards to technology used, almost as radically different as air combat in 1918 was from, say, 1942.


George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 11529
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12/31/2020 4:03:02 PM
Interesting list. While it was a fighter-bomber I do think that the De Havilland Mosquito should be there. This plane served in many different roles. Is it fair to compare the Mosquito to the P-38 Lightning which was on the list? If comparing daytime dog fighting abilities alone, I would think that the P-38 would be the selected aircraft. Is it fair to say that the Mosquito could perform many more and varied tasks than the P-38?

I suppose that it depends upon which country the rating of aircraft originates but I have read that the Mosquito was the best photo reconnaissance aircraft of the war. The Spitfire XI was excellent in that role as well.

The wiki article quoted in David's list claimed that 90% of the photo-reconnaissance in Europe was take by the P-38. So I am confused. Did that claim refer to 90% of all US reconnaissance or all allied reconnaissance?

I also think that it is difficult to compile a "best of" list when the war was fought in phases with different needs as the war progressed. I guess that I am getting at whether there should be a "best of list" by year or something like that. So where would the Hawker Hurricane fit in the scheme of things?

George
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
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1/1/2021 4:31:40 PM


Buffalo Ace by Stan Stokes.
https://www.aviationartprints.com/aviation_art.php?ProdID=12490
[Read More]
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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1/1/2021 8:55:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
The following is derived from a post and suggestion by another member on another thread ...
Michigan Dave
This day in World History! Volume II
Posted on: 11/23/2020 5:33:05 AM

Wherein he presented the following for consideration ~ discussion;
"Also here are the top 10 fighter planes of WWII, do you agree? Comments?

[Read More]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vB4of_ofGM
[Read More]

& you gentlemen may have something to say on these, the top 10 Bombers of WWII??

[Read More]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s-w4DkquTQ
[Read More] "

Both would appear to be rather subjective lists of the link author's choice, with rather limited quantitative or qualitative factors applied. Nor much in line with any sort of broad survey consensus. Having been involved with similar over the years on other forums, I'm going to take these on and provide some alternative considerations. --- in next post.


Before continuing on, let's look at those two lists provided by "Michigan Dave" in the other thread and dragged over to here. I'll hold back on much commentary, or links since those will come later, but just mostly present those lists for context and comparison sake. However, both links are worth a view for either the video footage of current and restored aircraft as well as some of the archival images of others. For those not wanting to invest about a half hour of viewing, I'll list the ones shown below.

On the "Top 10 Fighters List";
1) Vought F4U Corsair
2) North American P-51 Mustang
3) Focke-Wulf FW-190
4) Supermarine Spitfire
5) Messerschmidt Bf-109
6) Messerschmidt Me-262 (?)1
7) Republic P-47 Thunderbolt
8) Lockheed P-38 Lightening
9) Lavochkin La-5/-7
10) Mitsubishi A6M Zero(Zeke)

On the "Top 10 Bombers" List:
1) Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
2) Boeing B-29 SuperFortress
3) Consolidated B-24 Liberator
4) Avro Lancaster
5) Tupolev Tu-2
6) Junker Ju-88
7) Illyushin IL-4
8) Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" (?)2
9) Heinkel He-111
10) Tupolev TB-3 (?)3
...............

OK, a few require some quick comment here;
(?)1 = Me-262; Admittedly the first combat deployed jet fighter aircraft, but the Gloster G-41 Meteor was also working it's way in, mostly chasing the V-1 Buzz Bombs, and the USAAF's Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star was also on verge of entry. Both the Lockheed and Gloster designs would see use fort several postwar years in numerous variants with the '262' would fad away.
(?)2 = The 'Nell" ??? No offense to Japan's efforts, but most of their bombers were a bit lackluster compared to those of other nations, only notable exception might be in the Mitsubishi G4M "Betty". Their flying boats(Emily and Mavis) were fairly respectable designs as well.
(?)3 = I'd like to think this might be some form of typo. In four-engined designs the later Petlaykov Pe-8 is the more modern and capable design, while the Illyushin Il-4 is also the more impressive and larger produced/used workhorse of the Soviet bomber inventory.

Oh yeah, the TU-2 while a good and capable design was out produced nearly 10 to one by the Pe-2/3 which would put that aircraft higher in the rankings, IMO. Though the Tu-2 would have a longer usage in postwar years.

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DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 959
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1/1/2021 8:58:30 PM
The Fins made the best use of the Brewster Buffalo compiling 13 aces in the Buffalo.
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
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1/1/2021 9:07:10 PM
David,

Thanks for bringing up the lists I posted on top 10 fighters, & top 10 bombers! Looking forward to what comments members might make on them!?

Thanks,
MD

BTW, Brian Grafton an WWII aircraft expert on them especially WWII Commonwealth planes, might have some comments!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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1/1/2021 9:27:44 PM
Quote:
Rating fighters, bombers, tanks, etc., is a daunting task but I do like your lists. IMO, the F6F stands out for its time and place of service, let alone its record as well as the Spitfire, Thunderbolt and Mustang.


Thanks and there's a point to note. Many aircraft on these list did excellent jobs for their "time and place" but were near the edge of usefulness as the war ended. Hence few would continue in production and/or use afterwards. So making a least is the balance of how they performed in their time versus how they would endure in the years afterward.

For the USN, the F6F Hellcat became a ubiquitous fighter~bomber type to point that by war's end many aircraft carrier airgroups were mostly Hellcats and a few Avengers(maybe). Of course by war's end, other types would show better retention qualities plus there were newer types such as the Douglas AD-1 SkyRaider which would out do the stable standby of the Hellcat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-1_Skyraider
[Read More]

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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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1/1/2021 9:47:55 PM
Quote:
Rating fighters, bombers, tanks, etc., is a daunting task but I do like your lists. IMO, the F6F stands out for its time and place of service, let alone its record as well as the Spitfire, Thunderbolt and Mustang.


Thanks!
For now I'm sticking to aircraft, that being what I best know. Will let items like tanks or other AFVs, and warships, to others to do and in other threads. Would like to keep this one focused on aircraft of World War Two - WWII.
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
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1/1/2021 9:57:22 PM
Quote:
Interesting list. While it was a fighter-bomber I do think that the De Havilland Mosquito should be there. This plane served in many different roles. Is it fair to compare the Mosquito to the P-38 Lightning which was on the list? If comparing daytime dog fighting abilities alone, I would think that the P-38 would be the selected aircraft. Is it fair to say that the Mosquito could perform many more and varied tasks than the P-38?

I suppose that it depends upon which country the rating of aircraft originates but I have read that the Mosquito was the best photo reconnaissance aircraft of the war. The Spitfire XI was excellent in that role as well.

The wiki article quoted in David's list claimed that 90% of the photo-reconnaissance in Europe was take by the P-38. So I am confused. Did that claim refer to 90% of all US reconnaissance or all allied reconnaissance?

I also think that it is difficult to compile a "best of" list when the war was fought in phases with different needs as the war progressed. I guess that I am getting at whether there should be a "best of list" by year or something like that. So where would the Hawker Hurricane fit in the scheme of things?

George

The Mosquito started out as bomber, so expect to see it covered in that list(s).
As for photo-recon, I'll leave that subject for later when I have more time to examine it.
As for the P-38, this has near always been one of my most favorite aircraft of WWII and I'm trying hard to fight my bias and be objective regards it. (Some times wonder if I might not be a re-incarnated pilot of P-38s from WWII era given my strong affinity toward this plane.)

FWIW, the P-38 was the mount of USA's/USAAF's top fighter aces; admittedly from the PTO, yet that was an environment where the best characteristics of the P-38 could/would shine. Excerpt;
...
The P-38 was used most successfully in the Pacific Theater of Operations and the China-Burma-India Theater of Operations as the aircraft of America's top aces, Richard Bong (40 victories), Thomas McGuire (38 victories) and Charles H. MacDonald (27 victories). In the South West Pacific theater, the P-38 was the primary long-range fighter of United States Army Air Forces until the introduction of large numbers of P-51D Mustangs toward the end of the war.[15][16]
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning
[Read More]



A Pair of Aces by Stan Stokes.
https://www.aviationartprints.com/aviation_art.php?ProdID=12130
[Read More]

BTW, here's a design feature(s) of the P-38 that has always fascinated me and one I've wondered why it wasn't tried on other multi-engine designs (the counter-rotating engines~props);
...
The Lockheed design incorporated tricycle undercarriage and a bubble canopy, and featured two 1,000 hp (750 kW) turbosupercharged 12-cylinder Allison V-1710 engines fitted with counter-rotating propellers to eliminate the effect of engine torque, with the turbochargers positioned behind the engines, the exhaust side of the units exposed along the dorsal surfaces of the booms.[33] Counter-rotation was achieved by the use of "handed" engines: the crankshafts of the engines turned in opposite directions, a relatively easy task for the V-1710 modular-design aircraft powerplant.

The P-38 was the first American fighter to make extensive use of stainless steel and smooth, flush-riveted butt-jointed aluminum skin panels.[34] It was also the first military airplane to fly faster than 400 mph (640 km/h) in level flight.[35][36]
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-38_Lightning
[Read More]
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G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
"Top 10" ~ "Best of ... " ~ or similar ....
1/1/2021 10:00:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
In similar past "lists" there are usually a mix of qualitative and quantitative factors to consider ~score, in making up such "lists".

For the most part I'll restrain for now from comment upon such regarding specific aircraft, but will present them for consideration and further discussion. Think in terms of scoring from "0" (= how the heck did this get built and used) to "10" (best and most advanced design ever from that era). Most aircraft making it into the "Top 10/'Best of' " will score in a total of the upper two-thirds to three-quarters range of the following ten categories.

1) Years in Use and/or Service - Should speak for itself.
2) Years in Production - the longer produced the more likely acceptable and usable the design.
3) Post War (WWII) Use and/or Production - Sign of a workable design if still made and used in post-war era.



I think the first three criteria are not good indicators of how good an aircraft is.

1) Years in service would give a plane like the the Bf-019 lots of points. By 1945 the Bf-109 was out classed by many aircraft.
2) Same as above.
3) Post World War II use. Aircraft design was changing rapidly post war. The USN kept many piston aircraft because early jet powered aircraft were not suitable for aircraft carriers. This gives added points to naval aircraft.


Then don't use if you want.

I was looking for a mix of factors to use/consider and ended up with ten which if using a score system of zero to ten can rate an aircraft from zero to one hundred. Such can be modified and if you want, do so. Also consider making your own list(s) if you don't like~agree with mine.
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
"Top 10" ~ "Best of ... " ~ or similar ....
1/1/2021 10:05:10 PM
Quote:
The Fins made the best use of the Brewster Buffalo compiling 13 aces in the Buffalo.


Says a lot about the quality of the user versus the quality of what they are using. !!!

Good~great pilots can do better with sub-standard aircraft than average or less can do with better. ;-)
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 959
Joined: 2005
"Top 10" ~ "Best of ... " ~ or similar ....
1/1/2021 10:24:46 PM
The Fins "upgraded" the F2A-1 Buffalo with armor plating behind and beneath the pilot and, "Finnish Brewsters had reflector sights and reliable armament of three heavy machine guns and one rifle-caliber mg. (later on four heavy MG's) and seat armour."

No doubt, the Buffalo was outclassed by the Japanese Zero in the Pacific but it seemed to have held its own in the battles between the Finns and Russians.



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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford

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