|
|
|
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows
PA USA
|
Posts: 1739
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
From the Rutland Weekly Herald. Rutland VT.
----------------------------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
|
Posts: 8067
Joined: 2006
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
Hi Larry
All of these articles about General Patterson, & not one gives his first name? Considering that, I believe there are 7 or 8 General Pattersons??
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows
PA USA
|
Posts: 1739
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
|
Quote: Hi Larry
All of these articles about General Patterson, & not one gives his first name? Considering that, I believe there are 7 or 8 General Pattersons??
Regards,
MD
Major General Robert Patterson.
----------------------------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
|
Posts: 908
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
Reading a biography of George Thomas (by C. J. Einolf)….and there is a brief discussion of Patterson’s unwillingness to engage Johnston. Argues that much of Patterson’s force were 90 day volunteers…that were near the end of their term of service…and were not willing to serve past 90 days. Apparently Patterson asked Scott if he could retreat back to the Potomac, so concerned was he that his small army was about to melt away. The biography does not say whether permission was granted….I assume not-:)
s.c.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
|
Posts: 3292
Joined: 2007
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
Steve, I just spent two days up at Chickamauga battlefield, Monday and Tuesday, and bought that very book on Thomas. I have gained a respect for General Thomas as time has gone by and I have studied more bits about him. I haven`t started to read it yet but am looking forward to it. Hope it is a good read.
Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
scoucer
Berlin
Germany
|
Posts: 3219
Joined: 2010
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
I am a great admirer of Thomas. He had served in all three branches of the service and was a teacher at West Point. A Virginian who was disowned by his family for siding with the Union and there was never any reconciliation. This meant he had no helpful family connections like other generals. He was foremost a soldier and distanced himself from the politics surrounding High Command. Significantly, before his death, he burned his personal papers as he did "not want strangers rummaging through his private life" so his opinions, observations and points of view were absent from post-war discussions and arguments. He was "methodical", determined to keep casualties as low as possible, for which his troops idolized him. It is to both Sherman`s and Grant´s discredit that they disparaged him as slow. Physically, he was slow. Fighting on the plains, he had got an arrow in the throat which made his speech often seem slow, short and without tone. More importantly, he had suffered a back injury that remained often painful for the rest of his life so he would often appear slow, stiff , grim-faced and phlegmatic.
Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie
Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
|
Posts: 908
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
|
Quote: Steve, I just spent two days up at Chickamauga battlefield, Monday and Tuesday, and bought that very book on Thomas. I have gained a respect for General Thomas as time has gone by and I have studied more bits about him. I haven`t started to read it yet but am looking forward to it. Hope it is a good read.
Respects, Morris
Morris,
Curious, did you use a guide, or do the two days by yourself? Did you spend any time in Chattanooga, ie. MIssionary Ridge?
I was one of a handful of MHOers that participated in a long ago MHO muster at Chickamauga. Got to meet the boss, Brian Williams (who I remember drove up without hiking boots, and our guided tramping involved hoping thru streams etc.). It was a LOT of walking!
I am a big fan of Thomas. Especially his unwillingness (is that a word?) to play politics. Which, in the CW, appears to have been rare quality-:)
Have five Thomas biographies....and my current read of Einolf's take on Thomas is a re-read. Several of the other bios on my book shelf are frankly a bit too "worshipping". Thomas had many admirable qualities, but he didn't walk on water-:)
My memory of my first read of Einolf was that he was much more balanced regarding Thomas' service during the CW....willing to point out Thomas' weaknesses and/or mistakes. So I would definitely recommend it. Second choice would be "Education in Violence". by Francis McKinney (written, I believe, in the 1950's)
s.c.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
|
Posts: 908
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
|
Quote: I am a great admirer of Thomas. He had served in all three branches of the service and was a teacher at West Point. A Virginian who was disowned by his family for siding with the Union and there was never any reconciliation. This meant he had no helpful family connections like other generals. He was foremost a soldier and distanced himself from the politics surrounding High Command. Significantly, before his death, he burned his personal papers as he did "not want strangers rummaging through his private life" so his opinions, observations and points of view were absent from post-war discussions and arguments. He was "methodical", determined to keep casualties as low as possible, for which his troops idolized him. It is to both Sherman`s and Grant´s discredit that they disparaged him as slow. Physically, he was slow. Fighting on the plains, he had got an arrow in the throat which made his speech often seem slow, short and without tone. More importantly, he had suffered a back injury that remained often painful for the rest of his life so he would often appear slow, stiff , grim-faced and phlegmatic.
Trevor
Trevor,
Gotta say, your one paragraph did a very good job of summing up Thomas...if you don't mind a compliment, you write very well!
Yes, Sherman used Thomas as a scapegoat for his own slow progress during his Atlanta campaign. And I guess Grant believed him. IMO, pretty sleazy on Sherman's part. Certainly tainted my opinion of Sherman.
And a part of me struggles to understand "why" Grant basically lost his shit in December of '64, when Hood (stupidly) was in front of Nashville. Grant was always VERY quick to forgive the failings of his favourites i.e. Sherman (who had a long list of tactical failures...), McPherson and Sheridan. Why he would cut Thomas essentially zero slack stupefies me. Though I suspect what happened between the two men at Chattanooga might have been a contributing factor......And then after Nashville, Thomas never really held a command again....his patched together force used at Nashville spread to the winds
s.c.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
|
Posts: 3292
Joined: 2007
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
Thanks for that reply Steve. I have spent a great deal of time on the field of Chickamauga through the years. But, circumstances kept me away for a decade, ( actually more), so I wanted to go back. This time I took advantage of the cell phone NPS tour, something that did not exist before on my other visits. I spent the most time in the Snodgrass- Horseshoe sector and the magnificent defense of that critical terrain by Thomas ( with significant aide from Granger`s decision to trash his orders and bring his "reserve Corps" to the sound of the fighting. Had he not climbed a haystack and determined that "Bragg is throwing his full force against Thomas" at the time it had not yet happened...who knows how things would have gone.) There are many placards dedicated to, not just divisions or brigades, but to so many small units, survivors of regiments that Thomas rallied there.
Thomas had faults, as you have said, but the plan for utilizing Snake Creek Gap in the 64 Atlanta Campaign was his idea...and Sherman gave it to McPherson...who blew it!
I have always suggested a parallel between Thomas and Longstreet. Thomas destroyed his private papers by having them burned...Longstreet lost his in a fire at his home in Gainesville. Both were unfairly relegated to a back-burner status by jealous commanders who tried to diminish them. And, at Chickamauga, both men had their day. I totally agree with you about how shameful Sherman and Grant treatment and low regard for Thomas was. At Peachtree Creek, Thomas was grand...cool and in charge, sound deployments, personally directing his artillery to smash the Confederate attack.
It does diminish Grant that he overlooked so many failures and outright mistakes made by Sherman, yet held the man who saved the bacon for the whole army at Chickamauga in less than favored status.
Back to the tour, I have had one guided tour of the field many years back, but I just prefer to walk the field, actually see the terrain, and think about what happened there without the lesson -plan tour.
Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Phil Andrade
London
UK
|
Posts: 6379
Joined: 2004
|
|
|
|
General Patterson's blunder
|
Morris,
That story has an Antietam counterpart. When AP Hill’s division arrived in the nick of time to mount a counterattack against the yankees who’d come within an inch of winning the day, some of the rebels were attired in jackets they’d taken from the enemy at Harpers Ferry.
The green yankees were bewildered and failed to fire effectively until it was too late.
Artillery played its part in friendly fire incidents too.
At Culp’s Hill at Gettysburg in the morning fighting of the third day, the Union gunners attained a deadly advantage over the rebels, which did much to repulse the confederate attacks. One of the union regiments was mistakenly hit, and when he saw some of his soldiers being killed or wounded, the commander- who’d just seen one of his men lose both his arms to a yankee “ short” - sent a runner with a message to the offending battery threatening to order the regiment to charge those guns if they didn’t rectify their aim.
Editing: wrong thread, sorry. Thank goodness I’ve never been responsible for directing soldiers in battle!
Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"
"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
