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Brian Grafton
Victoria
BC Canada
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Posts: 4720
Joined: 2004
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The Arctic route
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Found this article from the “Barents Observer”:
[Read More]
Given that lengthier voyage (+3,200nm) over the Suez route, and the trans-shipment decision at Vladivostok, I thought the Russian choice was more than just curious. Thoughts, anyone?
One thing that struck me is that simply by making use of the Russian polar route on a routine basis Russia is establishing precedents. I get that they’re using the Russian route, but they’re still making a case for a stronger year-round presence in the region, with expansions in weather research stations, more numerous atomic icebreakers, and perhaps a more numerous, more flexible fleet of atomic-powered cargo vessels.
Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.
"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
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GaryNJ
Cumberland
NJ USA
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Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
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The Arctic route
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Brian,
What route would be shorter from China, Japan, and South Korea to Europe over Russia or through Canadian waters in the north?
Gary
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route
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Brrrrrrrrrr!!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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Brian Grafton
Victoria
BC Canada
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Posts: 4720
Joined: 2004
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The Arctic route
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Quote: What route would be shorter from China, Japan, and South Korea to Europe over Russia or through Canadian waters in the north?
Gary, good question. I don’t have a good answer.
The reactor that is the focus of this particular shipment was, IIUC, being shipped from St Petersburg to Bangladesh, via Murmansk and Vladivostok. Shipment to Japan, or North or South Korea, would be hundreds – maybe even a thousand – of nms shorter. And by polar configuration, if Murmansk can remain ice-free, it might be an attractive destination. IIRC, Murmansk has increasingly effective rail links to the south. Someone like Kai would have to address how well-connected Trondheim and/or Narvik are by comparison.
Three points, which I raise but cannot answer:
1. At present, I believe Russian efforts to keep a north-east passage open are more energetic and more effective than any effort being made by Canada, the US or Denmark. Just thinking insurance purposes alone, right now the Russian route is more attractive. Distance, I assume, is sometimes less important than risk factors.
2. Because of basic government control mechanisms, it is still possible for Russia to operate at least some transportation by the NE passage at a loss. I don’t believe this is possible in the west, at least at present.
2 IIUC, there are huge efforts by both Russia and China to generate land links from Asia to the west. In fact, there was I believe a recent article (again, in the “Barents Observer”) concerning a container being shipped from somewhere in Asia to Murmansk by rail and road, and then being loaded aboard ship to ship to the US east coast.
You are noting trade from Asian to European markets, fo course. What I would wonder is whether the Suez route is still the most viable from much of East Asia to Europe, assuming landing cargo in Italy or France.
As a child, I had a globe (all that British Empire pink or red was a boost at the time!) that has long since been lost. Maybe it’s time once more to get a globe which allows distances such as we’re talking to be calculated.
Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.
"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
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Posts: 13378
Joined: 2009
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The Arctic route
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Note the Transpolar sea route takes ships straight over the pole which no country is supposed to own. It also takes ships away from the ports of call along the Northern Sea Route along the Russian shore. It is my understanding that the "ownership" of the waters off the Russian shore are not in dispute. They are Russian up to 200 nautical miles and so Russia will be able to charge fees for services and will regulate traffic along this route.
The Northwest Passage runs through the Canadian Arctic Archipelago but sovereignty over these waters is in dispute. Canada claims the water as internal Canadian waters and if so travel through these waters which pass by islands occupied by Inuit who also hunt in these water, would be under Canadian jurisdiction and control.
The US has disputed Canada's claim and says that the waters are an international strait and that all shipping may pass without notification of Canadian authorities.
As to which route from Europe is shorter, the Northern Sea Route or the Northwest Passage, it appears that the Northwest Passage is shorter but the bigger question is which route is more easily navigated and for how much of the year. I believe that the Northern Sea Route will be ice free before the Northwest Passage. One prediction is that the Northern Sea Route will be ice free for two months of the year by 2030, increasing to three months by 2040. Siberian Rivers deposit water into the sea that makes the Russian waters more temperate.
The Northwest Passage will take a lot longer to clear and the absence of deep sea ports probably means that the Russian route will see expanded use before the Canadian route.
However, the Northern Sea route is actually marginally shorter than the NW passage dependent upon which European port is the start or end point. The further south that those Euro ports are or if they are in the Med, the less attractive the northern routes become.
Quote:One of the noteworthy strengths of both routes is the shorter distance between Asian and European ports. For example, a cargo ship going from Shanghai to Rotterdam would have to travel 10,500 nautical miles using the Suez Canal route; via the Northern Sea Route, on the other hand, it would only be 8,500 miles or 8,700 on the route through northern Canada. This reduction in the distances would translate into shorter voyage time, taking up to a week less.
[Read More]
Cheers,
George
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route, also latest on the exploration of the Franklin Expedition
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It has been a long summer season in the north of Canada! What's the latest on the Exploration of the Franklin Expeditions recently found ships!?? Videos & articles welcome!?
Thanks,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route, & latest finds from the Franklin Expedition from Parks Ca
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Quote:Found this article from the “Barents Observer”: [Read More]Given that lengthier voyage (+3,200nm) over the Suez route, and the trans-shipment decision at Vladivostok, I thought the Russian choice was more than just curious. Thoughts, anyone? One thing that struck me is that simply by making use of the Russian polar route on a routine basis Russia is establishing precedents. I get that they’re using the Russian route, but they’re still making a case for a stronger year-round presence in the region, with expansions in weather research stations, more numerous atomic icebreakers, and perhaps a more numerous, more flexible fleet of atomic-powered cargo vessels. Cheers. And stay safe. Brian G
& what's the latest on the Parks Canada search on the Franklin Expedition ships?? Anyone?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route, also latest on the exploration of the Franklin Expedition
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Quote: It has been a long summer season in the north of Canada! What's the latest on the Exploration of the Franklin Expeditions recently found ships!?? Videos & articles welcome!?
Thanks,
MD
Well? Any news??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route, also latest on the exploration of the Franklin Expedition
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D
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
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Posts: 13378
Joined: 2009
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The Arctic route, also latest on the exploration of the Franklin Expedition
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Quote:Quote: It has been a long summer season in the north of Canada! What's the latest on the Exploration of the Franklin Expeditions recently found ships!?? Videos & articles welcome!?
Thanks,
MD Well? Any news??
MD, the 2023 archeological season has ended and Parks Canada says that it will be weeks before they will comment upon new discoveries.
You may be interested in this web site. It contains information, pictures and dioramas of the dive sites as prepared by Parks Canada. Note that it is not a Parks Canada site but used information provided by PC.
Examination of HMS Terror and HMS Erebus will go on for years as the yearly window in the Arctic to engage in archeological research of this nature is very short.
[Read More]
Cheers,
George
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon
MI USA
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Posts: 8091
Joined: 2006
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The Arctic route, also latest on the exploration of the Franklin Expedition
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Thanks George,
Your right about the great website on the Franklin Expedition, it had to be one of the most horrific, & tragic episodes of Arctic Explorations & again for what?? Again I invite any MHO'ers who have a interest in this historic happening, still evolving today to check out your website!?
A prime example of fascinating history which in modern times is coming to the fore front!?
Regards,
MD
BTW can Brian W., raise & post the original thread on this fascinating topic, I can't seem to find it?? Anyone? Or new video's or websites on these great historical events?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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