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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/4/2023 9:07:07 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Some good pics from this youtube video: [Read More]

Dan




Thank you, Dan. Great photographs.

This was a difficult battle and a great deal of bravery was exhibited. 8 Canadian soldiers were awarded the VC and 4 British soldiers were as well.

Cheers,

George




Hey George, & Dan,

Both of you had great pictures, on the British Canadian helmets, verse the German Helmets, it would seem the Germans headgear formed more protection of the head & neck area? Why the rimmed helmet by Commonwealth Forces? I believe even American soldiers took this British designed helmet? Why did the good guys use this helmet?

I don't get it??
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/4/2023 9:10:45 PM
Hey guys, here are some of the early December events! Moved from previous page. Comments?

12-2,

1804 Napoleon takes the Crown from the Pope, Luis II, & crowns himself emporer of France! How would you interpret this??

1823 the Monroe Doctrine goes into effect, basically saying you better not mess with the Western Hemisphere or you'll face the wrath of the US! Look out!? Comments??

1859 John Brown is hanged for taking Harper's Ferry to start a slave uprising!? Would you say he was a criminal or a hero? How does history remember him?? Anyone?

1854 the Senate votes to censor JP McCarthy for his Red Scare tactics! What do you think of him, & his fear mongering??

1993 Pablo Escobar killed in shoot out! Hat say you about this drug trafficer!? Why was he so powerful, & above the law? Comments?

12-3,

1854, in Victoria, Oz Diggers clash with government forces over gold fields! How did this play out? Who were the Diggers?? Anyone from Oz here to help??

1984 Gas leak in India 20,000 die! Who was to blame? Anyone??

12-4,

1093 New Arch Bishop of Canterbury, what's the big deal with Canterbury's leaders? Can someone explain this, you hear it in English litature, & history? Help us our??

1533 Ivan the Terrible named Grand Prince of Moscow! Why is he called the Terrible? Anyone??

1679 English Philosopher, Thomas Hobbes dies! How did he see things? What's his take?? What say you?

1918, Woodrow Wilson founds the League of Nations, then the US doesn't even join? What's up with that?? Comments on why??

12-5,

1484, the Pope condemned Witchcraft! How superstitious they were back then!?? Why the hysteria? Comments?

1901 Walt Disney born, is there a Disney land property outside the US? Where? & why was Disney World in Florida threatened?? Anyone?

1839 George Armstrong Custer was born! Was he a great Cavalry Officer?? What's his legacy?? What say you?

1952 A deadly fog covers London killing thousands!? How could this possibly happen?? Comments?

1913 Nelson Mandela dies how did he change South African social standards!? Was he a great man?? What say you?

2017 why is Russia banned from the Winter Olympics?? Anyone??

Lots to discuss here!
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
12/4/2023 9:46:33 PM
1679 English Philosopher, Thomas Hobbes dies! How did he see things? What's his take?? What say you?

First, think of his length of life – a topic we’ve raised in this forum; enhance that with the events (social, political and intellectual) he experienced. 

He was 91 years and 8 months when he died. He was born in 1588, the year of the Spanish Armada in the 30th year of Elizabeth I’s reign. He lived under six different sovereigns and some of the 11 years of the Protectorate (largely under Oliver Cromwell). He felt the need to leave England both for employment and out of fear of prosecution, but also felt the need to return to England for the same reasons. He was for some time in danger of being charged with heresy, and in the last 25 years of his life his writings could not be published in England. This was not, I suggest, a quiet, relaxing life.

Educationally, he was tutored by Robert Latimer. Proving a good pupil, he entered studies at Oxford in 1601, studying logic and mathematics in a scholastic format,which he quickly rejected. Scholasticism was not meaningful to him, yet Scholasticism would last in some fields of study at both Oxford and Cambridge for a further 50-60 years.

He earned his living as a tutor to aristocracy, but his place in history is as a philosopher. Not, IIUC, a popular philosopher. But one whose thoughts and works were formidable. His confrontations with Descartes were a meaningful part of the pan-European discussions in various disciplines such as astronomy, medicine, morals and philosophy.

While Hobbes’ studies and writings are now recognized as introductions to modern political philosophy, most folks know him by his description of man’s life in nature: it is, Hobbes argues, “solitary, nasty, brutish and short.” Nature itself was seen as a chaotic state, and man was destined to create a world in which nature is controlled sufficiently to generate and perpetuate society. Hobbes explores upon what the nature of such a controlled society should be based.

It was not a new idea, of course. Just as an example, the same concept is explored in Edmund Spenser’s Faerie Queene, published in the 1590s. Spenser came to different conclusions than Hobbes, but from a different reality. 

So much more can be said, of course. In some way, he paved the way for Locke, Hume, Berkeley and other political philosophers, which should be reason enough to respect his significance.

Cheers
Brian G


----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 7:34:18 AM
Quote:
Both of you had great pictures, on the British Canadian helmets, verse the German Helmets, it would seem the Germans headgear formed more protection of the head & neck area? Why the rimmed helmet by Commonwealth Forces? I believe even American soldiers took this British designed helmet? Why did the good guys use this helmet?


Considering that the British forces started the war without any helmets at all, the Brodie helmet was a marked improvement in protection. Soldiers were dying or injured from shrapnel falling on them even if in trenches and so the Brodie protected from the top. I believe that the Brodie was modified in 1916 and soldiers were issued with the Mark 1. It had a better harness inside but I'm not knowledgeable enough to see the subtle differences between the two.

Brodie



Mark 1



The difference seems to be in the rim and the liner.

A Mark II was issued in 1936 again with an improved liner and chin strap.


A Mark III was developed during WW2 and issued to British and Canadian troops in time for D-day. As I recall, there weren't sufficient numbers of Mark III's for all of the Canadians so some had the new helmet and some kept the Mark II. I don't know if the situation was the same for the British.

Mark III



EDIT: Canada had to return all of the Mark III's issued to the British at the end of WW2. These hadn't been purchased.

Canadian forces reverted to the Mark II or 1 versions and wore them in Korea. Canada had purchased these stocks.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 9:02:04 AM
Hi George,

Nice post on the Brodie helmets & their improvements, I can see how they would help protect the head against shrapnel, vertical protection, but it would seem to leave the lower head & neck areas open for bullets, horizontal protection lacking?? The German helmet would be better head protection from rounds fired horizontally, ground level? Rifle, gun fire?? Maybe Phil or others can weigh in??

But I don't know??
Regards, & thanks,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 9:22:51 AM


Hi Brian,

Great understanding on Thomas Hobbes, his times, politicil, philosophy, he certainly wrote a excellent treatise on it with, " Leviathan", 1651. His times were volatile! But I wonder what he would think of our politics, & our current state of affairs!?

Worth having a pint over, & discussing!?
From a knowledgeable chap like you!?

Cheers, & thanks!
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 9:59:55 AM
Quote:
Hi George,

Nice post on the Brodie helmets & their improvements, I can see how they would help protect the head against shrapnel, vertical protection, but it would seem to leave the lower head & neck areas open for bullets, horizontal protection lacking?? The German helmet would be better head protection from rounds fired horizontally, ground level? Rifle, gun fire?? Maybe Phil or others can weigh in??

But I don't know??
Regards, & thanks,
MD


Do you know what, Dave ? As soon as the British army adopted steel helmets, there was a significant increase in the number of head wounds being admitted to hospitals. That sounds absurd, doesn’t it ? The reason, of course, was that those men who were admitted with head wounds would never have made it to hospital when they were wearing those old soft hats.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 3:11:40 PM


The American Expeditionary Force did not have a helmet for its troops when it entered WW1 in 1917. The decided to use the British style helmet. This selection was made because of, "the immediate availability of 400,000 ready-made helmets from England, the simplicity of manufacture from hard metal, and the superior ballistic properties."

These would do until the US began to make its M-1917 which was the British helmet with modifications.

[Read More]


Now who were these men in the photo at the top of this page? They are also Americans, black Americans, and members of the 369th Infantry, a reserve regiment. There were two other combat regiments made up of black Americans. But the US forces were not integrated and when the French indicated they wanted some help the AEF decided to lend these black soldiers to France.

General Pershing had originally intended to incorporate the black divisions into the US order. He was in heated arguments with the British and French about dispersing his soldiers to the armies of the other two countries. He was opposed to this type of amalgamation. But there was the problem of racial prejudice and partly so as to avoid the problem of blacks and whites serving together, he agreed to let black divisions join the French forces.

And that is why they are wearing the French, "Adrian" helmet with otherwise American uniforms. Are those French weapons in the photo below?



Now I have seen photos of returning black soldiers wearing the US, Brodie style, helmet so perhaps not all black divisions fought with the French. That, I do not know.

Cheers,

George
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/5/2023 5:09:04 PM
"Harlem Hellfighters" comes to mind.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 10:18:04 AM

12-5, today in world history! Any new topics

1484, the Pope condemned Witchcraft! How superstitious they were back then!?? Why the hysteria? Comments?

1901 Walt Disney born, is there a Disney land property outside the US? Where? & why was Disney World in Florida threatened?? Anyone?

1839 George Armstrong Custer was born! Was he a great Cavalry Officer?? What's his legacy?? What say you?

1952 A deadly fog covers London killing thousands!? How could this possibly happen?? Comments?

1913 Nelson Mandela dies how did he change South African social standards!? Was he a great man?? What say you?

2017 why is Russia banned from the Winter Olympics?? Anyone??

A bit to discuss here!
Regards,
MD


BTW great discussion on WWI helmets, didn't realize our African American dough boys wore French Helmets, of course then they were segregated!?? What say you?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 10:46:40 AM
Mandela was born in 1918.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 1:21:54 PM
[quote\2017 why is Russia banned from the Winter Olympics?? Anyone??

They cheat, Dave.

The winter Olympics were held in Sochi, Russia in 2014. Russia engaged in a state sponsored doping scheme that allowed Russian athletes to compete without getting caught for using PED's.

At doping control, Russians inside would pass the urine of a Russian athlete with "dirty urine" through a small window to another Russian agent who would then pass a "clean urine" sample inside. The Russian tester would take the new urine and test it as though it was the urine from the athlete in question.

All of this was exposed by a whistleblower.

But the IOC still allowed many Russians to compete in the next Olympics. They just couldn't fly the flag of their country. The investigators who had uncovered the scheme were appalled as were many athletes who were awarded their medals years after once some of the Russian athletes were disqualified.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 2:24:21 PM
On Dec. 6, 1917 the SS Mont Blanc collided with the Norwegian vessel SS Imo in Halifax harbour. The Mont Blanc was carrying 2925 metric tons of explosives. Gun cotton, benzol, TNT, and picric acid were all destined for France to support the war effort. When Imo crashed into Mont Blanc, the collision led to the ignition of a few grains of picric acid.

There was an explosion in the harbour. That and the man made storm surge that rose 18 m higher than the high water mark travelled into the city for three city blocks. 1600 buildings were destroyed. People were swept out to sea and drowned.

The resultant explosion was the largest ever in the world in the pre-nuclear age.

The air waves created by the explosion blew many buildings down and fires resulted from that. It was estimated that the air mass that moved out from the explosion of Mont Blanc was travelling at "13,320 miles per hour – twenty-three times the speed of sound”.

Mont Blanc's hull was thrown in the air and vaporized in the fireball. The 1,140-pound anchor shank flew through the air approximately 3.78 km, landing at Armdale, while the ship’s 90 mm gun landed over 2 km away at Albro Lake, Dartmouth.

More than 6000 people were immediately homeless in winter. 2,000 were killed.

The people of Boston responded quickly and trains with goods and medical staff were dispatched.





This 518 kg anchor shank from Mont Blanc was found over 3.78 km away from the harbour. It had landed in a park where it is on display still.




[Read More]

Mont Blanc's gun found near a lake north of Halifax on the Dartmouth side of the harbour



Cheers,

George

DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 3:34:47 PM
Quote:
1952 A deadly fog covers London killing thousands!? How could this possibly happen?? Comments?

Regards,
MD


"The weather in November and early December 1952 had been very cold, with heavy snowfalls across the region. To keep warm, the people of London were burning large quantities of coal in their homes. Smoke was pouring from the chimneys of their houses.

Under normal conditions, smoke would rise into the atmosphere and disperse, but an anticyclone was hanging over the region. This pushes air downwards, warming it as it descends. This creates an inversion, where air close to the ground is cooler than the air higher above it. So when the warm smoke comes out of the chimney, it is trapped. The inversion of 1952 also trapped particles and gases emitted from factory chimneys in the London area, along with pollution which the winds from the east had brought from industrial areas on the continent."


In other words, a natural high pressure weather system pushed air downwards trapping man-made pollution from chimneys and smoke stacks creating a poisonous atmosphere.

Dan
----------------------------------
"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 9:43:55 PM
December 7, 1941

[Read More]

excellent source on Pearl Harbor!
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/6/2023 9:54:09 PM
12-6,

King Henry VI was born in Berkshire, we always hear about Henry VIII, how was this and other king Henry's as monarchs of England? Anyone??

1534 Pizzaro's men are taking over Quito, Ecuador from the Incas!? Did the world lose great civilizations because of the Spanish? What say you??

1865 Georgia becomes the 26th state to outlaw slavery! What took them so long??

1917 Finland declared independence from Russia! The countries of Scandinavia are certainly brave to stand up to the Soviets! What say you??

Also as you we use Encyclopedia Britannica as our source for daily events, so feel free to go to their website!?

Dec.7, 1941 Pearl Harbor Attack, comments, & websites! Anyone??

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 1:33:35 AM
The odd bit on Pearl Harbor: https://ibiblio.org/pha/
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 9:25:27 AM
Quote:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/ Scroll down for material directly related to the raid.

OP


Hi OP,

It was you who suggested this website last year on 12-7.

MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 9:30:35 AM
December, 7,

12-7, besides the attack on Pearl Harbor, the following occurred!?

1787 Delaware becomes the 1st state to ratify the Constitution! Now some higher ups are saying lets do away with the Constitution! Crazy?? What say you!?

1917 the US declares war on Austria-Hungary! At this time they were becoming fully involved in WWI. What say you? Better late than never??

1972 NASA's last flight to the moon! We haven't been back! Why??

2020 Chuck Yeagar passes away at 97, Comments on what he meant to aviation? Anyone???

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 9:44:46 AM
I spent a few years accumulating references for the Naval History and Heritage Command. They, of course, have a lot more material on their site. They have hundreds of thousands of photos that haven't be cataloged yet. Purdue gave me their copy of the Pearl Harbor Attack Hearings so the work study kids wouldn't have to go to the attic so often.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 10:34:40 AM
Quote:
1972 NASA's last flight to the moon! We haven't been back! Why??

Regards,
MD


Because there is nothing there.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 12:17:39 PM
Looks like a solid object to me.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/7/2023 6:05:51 PM
Quote:
On Dec. 6, 1917 the SS Mont Blanc collided with the Norwegian vessel SS Imo in Halifax harbour. The Mont Blanc was carrying 2925 metric tons of explosives. Gun cotton, benzol, TNT, and picric acid were all destined for France to support the war effort. When Imo crashed into Mont Blanc, the collision led to the ignition of a few grains of picric acid.

There was an explosion in the harbour. That and the man made storm surge that rose 18 m higher than the high water mark travelled into the city for three city blocks. 1600 buildings were destroyed. People were swept out to sea and drowned.

The resultant explosion was the largest ever in the world in the pre-nuclear age.

The air waves created by the explosion blew many buildings down and fires resulted from that. It was estimated that the air mass that moved out from the explosion of Mont Blanc was travelling at "13,320 miles per hour – twenty-three times the speed of sound”.

Mont Blanc's hull was thrown in the air and vaporized in the fireball. The 1,140-pound anchor shank flew through the air approximately 3.78 km, landing at Armdale, while the ship’s 90 mm gun landed over 2 km away at Albro Lake, Dartmouth.

More than 6000 people were immediately homeless in winter. 2,000 were killed.

The people of Boston responded quickly and trains with goods and medical staff were dispatched.





This 518 kg anchor shank from Mont Blanc was found over 3.78 km away from the harbour. It had landed in a park where it is on display still.




[Read More]

Mont Blanc's gun found near a lake north of Halifax on the Dartmouth side of the harbour



Cheers,

George



Hi George,

You can't make this stuff up, that's incredible! It's hard to believe that a ship would have almost 3,000 metric tons of TNT, & other explosives!? Who would even want to serve on such a ship?? With such a powder keg, you would have thought they would have been more careful?? What did the post disaster inquiry find, & blame??

Incredible!
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 6:00:49 AM
Quote:
Looks like a solid object to me.


Yeah, but there is nothing there worth stealing.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 8:20:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Looks like a solid object to me.


Yeah, but there is nothing there worth stealing.

Trevor

Hopefully it will be our launching point to explore the rest of the solar system. And maybe as a life boat. Now that we've found water up there the prospects are more open.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 8:56:44 AM
History from 7-10, December, yesterday?

12-7, besides the attack on Pearl Harbor, the following occurred!?

1787 Delaware becomes the 1st state to ratify the Constitution! Now some higher ups are saying lets do away with the Constitution! Crazy?? What say you!?

1917 the US declares war on Austria-Hungary! At this time they were becoming fully involved in WWI. What say you? Better late than never??

1966, The US, & the Soviets sign a treaty, no nuclear weapons in outer space!? Comments on this? Actually on the 8th!

1972 NASA's last flight to the moon! We haven't been back! Simply, there's nothing there???

2020 Chuck Yeagar passes away at 97, Comments on what he meant to aviation? Anyone?

& today, 12-8 check these out!?

1542 Mary Queen of Scots was born, 6 days later she is the Queen of Scotland!? Say what? Yeah sure 6 days old & she's the Queen!? Do you believe it? I don't!!! Comments anyone??

1914 The Naval Battle off the Falkland Islands the RN destroys a German Battle Squadron! Why in WWI were they fighting way down there?? Anyone?

1941 the US, & Britain declare war on Japan, how did the 1st year go? Anyone??

1980 John Lennon shot in NY City! Who would want to kill one of the Beatles! Sick!? What say you?

2016 Astronaut John Glenn dies at 95, later he becomes the senator from Ohio! Comments on his life?

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 9:22:30 AM
Quote:
1917 the US declares war on Austria-Hungary! At this time they were becoming fully involved in WWI. What say you? Better late than never??


Hi Dave,

The year of 1917 was mostly an acclimatization and training year for the AEF. US troops had been arriving in France shortly after the US declaration of war in April of 1917.

The troops engaged in training exercises led by the French and British. As the troops became ready, they were introduced to front line combat. I believe that the first US troops to enter the trenches did so in October of 1917.

They were involved in supportive roles for British operations and in more defensive operations with the French. Gen. Pershing was adamant that his force would fight together but these operations in supportive roles were critical. The AEF was playing catch-up at this point and the French, British and Commonwealth forces and others had paid a heavy price in blood to develop tactics that had a better chance of winning and survival.

The AEF began to take on more important roles as 1918 dawned. They were involved in operations along the Marne in July of 1918 that assisted in stopping the German advance during the Spring Offensive.

With the start of the final 100 days the AEF took on more major roles at St. Mihiel and at Meuse-Argonne. And the AEF began to experience the losses that the other allies had been receiving for over 3 1/2 years. The AEF saw 52,000 killed in the time that they were active in WW1

I think that it is a fair assessment to say that the AEF would have had to take on a more prominent role had the war continued into 1919.

AEF operations and casualties by battle in WW1

Quote:

November 20-December 4, 1917-The Battle of Cambrai: three regiments of US Army engineers are attached to support the British 3rd Army's attack at Cambrai. Casualties: 77

March 21-April 6, 1918-The Somme Defense: three regiments of US Army engineers and four aero squadrons are attached to support the British 5th Army's defense against the German Army's ‘Michael Offensive' in northern France.

April 9-27, 1918-The Lys Operation: three regiments of US Army engineers and one pursuit squadron are attached to support the British Army's defense against the German's ‘Georgette Offensive' in Flanders.

May 27-June 5, 1918-The Aisne Defensive Operation: the American 2nd Infantry Division, 2nd Field Artillery Brigade, 4th Marine Brigade and smaller units were attached to the French Army for the defense against the German Army's 'Blucher-Yorck Offensive'.

May 28-31, 1918-The Battle of Cantigny: the American 1st Infantry Division contributes to the French counter-attack resulting in the capture of Cantigny. Casualties: 5,163

June 3-June 4, 1918-The Battle of Chateau-Thierry: the American 2nd Infantry Division and 2nd field Artillery Brigade support the French counter-attack that captures Chateau-Thierry. Casualties: 1,908

June 6-26, 1918-The Battle of Belleau Wood: the American 7th Infantry Regiment, 4th Marine Brigade and the engineers of the 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divisions support the French Army by their successful capture and defense of Belleau Wood. Casualties: 8,400

June 9-June 13, 1918-The Battle of Montdidier-Noyon: the American 1st Infantry Division contributes to the French counter-attack by their capture of Montdidier-Noyon.
June 26-July 3, 1918-The Battle of Vaux: the American 2nd Infantry Division support the French counter-attack with the capture of Vaux. Casualties: 7,588

July 15-18, 1918-The Champagne-Marne Operation: the American 26th, 3rd, 28th and 42nd Infantry Divisions and the 369th Infantry Regiment with the French 6th, 5th and 4th Armies successfully defend against the German 'Friedenstrum Offensive' and launch a counter-attack on July 18th. Casualties: 7,317

July 18-August 6, 1918-The Aisne-Marne Operation: the American 1st, 2nd, 26th, 3rd, 28th, 4th, 42nd and 32nd Infantry Divisions are organized into the American I and III Corps that participate with the French 10th, 6th, 9th and 5th armies in the Franco-American offensive that marks the beginning of the German Army's retreat from France. Casualties: 38,490

August 7-November 11, 1918-The Oisne-Aisne Operation: the American III Corps Headquarters, corps troops, 28th, 32nd, 77th Infantry Divisions and the 370th Infantry Regiment are attached to the French 10th, 6th and 5th armies and contribute to the French counter-attacks over four months that cause the Germans to retreat and to ask for an armistice. Casualties: 2,767

August 19-November 11, 1918-The Ypres-Lys Operation: the American 27th, 30th, 37th and 91st Infantry Divisions are attached to the Belgian, French 6th and British 2nd armies in support of the allied offensives in Flanders that forced the retirement of the German Army from Flanders. Casualties: 2,043

October 24-November 4, 1918-The Vittorio Veneto: the American 332nd Infantry Regiment, 331st Field Hospital and a motor truck train are attached to the British 31st Division in support of the allied counter-attack against the Austro-Hungarian Army in northern Italy.

August 8-November 11, 1918-The Somme Offensive: the American 27th, 30th, 33rd, 78th and 80th Infantry Divisions are organized as the American II Corps and fought with the British 4th Army in eight engagements in Belgium and in northern France at the Battles of Bellicourt, Montbrehain and the Selle River. Casualties: 15,034

September 12-16, 1918-The St. Mihiel Operation: the American First Army that consisted of the American I, IV and V Corps with the support of the French II Colonial Corps successfully reduced the St Mihiel salient by attacking and forcing the German Army to retreat from the Salient. Casualties: 8,600

September 26-November 11, 1918-The Meuse-Argonne Offensive: the American First Army that consisted of the American I, III, IV and V Corps with the support of the French Fourth Army launches its largest operation that led to the retreat of the German Army and their asking for an armistice ending American operations and the war. Casualties: 110,508


Cheers,

George


scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 10:01:32 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Looks like a solid object to me.


Yeah, but there is nothing there worth stealing.

Trevor

Hopefully it will be our launching point to explore the rest of the solar system. And maybe as a life boat. Now that we've found water up there the prospects are more open.


OP, I wish I had your optimism.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 11:21:17 AM
NASA, the Chinese, ESA, the Russians, all have early plans for exploiting the Moon. It's not rocket science. Not any more, anyway. ;-)
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 1:54:07 PM
Quote:
12-7, besides the attack on Pearl Harbor, the following occurred!?


Dave, we should not forget Philippines, Guam, Wake Island, Singapore, Malaya and Hong Kong. The Japanese hit all of these places in an 8 hour period. This was all well co-ordinated.

Cheers,

George

OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 2:29:35 PM
Indeed. The action in the Pacific started at Khota Baru.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 6:30:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
12-7, besides the attack on Pearl Harbor, the following occurred!?


Dave, we should not forget Philippines, Guam, Wake Island, Singapore, Malaya and Hong Kong. The Japanese hit all of these places in an 8 hour period. This was all well co-ordinated.

Cheers,

George




Good point George,

And all of these were horrific in their own right! I think.of the soldiers involved, & how they were not properly supported or led. How tragic surrendering to the IJA was! Different cultures with different codes for warfare!
Horror stories abound on how they were treated!? At least at Pearl they weren't taken prisoner!?

What say you??
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 8:20:59 PM
Sakamaki was captured after his sub went aground, he was unconscious. The five crews were honored by Japan, or at least nine of them. Sakamaki was a non-person right then. Don't know his history after the war.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 8:21:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
1917 the US declares war on Austria-Hungary! At this time they were becoming fully involved in WWI. What say you? Better late than never??


Hi Dave,

The year of 1917 was mostly an acclimatization and training year for the AEF. US troops had been arriving in France shortly after the US declaration of war in April of 1917.

The troops engaged in training exercises led by the French and British. As the troops became ready, they were introduced to front line combat. I believe that the first US troops to enter the trenches did so in October of 1917.

They were involved in supportive roles for British operations and in more defensive operations with the French. Gen. Pershing was adamant that his force would fight together but these operations in supportive roles were critical. The AEF was playing catch-up at this point and the French, British and Commonwealth forces and others had paid a heavy price in blood to develop tactics that had a better chance of winning and survival.

The AEF began to take on more important roles as 1918 dawned. They were involved in operations along the Marne in July of 1918 that assisted in stopping the German advance during the Spring Offensive.

With the start of the final 100 days the AEF took on more major roles at St. Mihiel and at Meuse-Argonne. And the AEF began to experience the losses that the other allies had been receiving for over 3 1/2 years. The AEF saw 52,000 killed in the time that they were active in WW1

I think that it is a fair assessment to say that the AEF would have had to take on a more prominent role had the war continued into 1919.

AEF operations and casualties by battle in WW1

Quote:

November 20-December 4, 1917-The Battle of Cambrai: three regiments of US Army engineers are attached to support the British 3rd Army's attack at Cambrai. Casualties: 77

March 21-April 6, 1918-The Somme Defense: three regiments of US Army engineers and four aero squadrons are attached to support the British 5th Army's defense against the German Army's ‘Michael Offensive' in northern France.

April 9-27, 1918-The Lys Operation: three regiments of US Army engineers and one pursuit squadron are attached to support the British Army's defense against the German's ‘Georgette Offensive' in Flanders.

May 27-June 5, 1918-The Aisne Defensive Operation: the American 2nd Infantry Division, 2nd Field Artillery Brigade, 4th Marine Brigade and smaller units were attached to the French Army for the defense against the German Army's 'Blucher-Yorck Offensive'.

May 28-31, 1918-The Battle of Cantigny: the American 1st Infantry Division contributes to the French counter-attack resulting in the capture of Cantigny. Casualties: 5,163

June 3-June 4, 1918-The Battle of Chateau-Thierry: the American 2nd Infantry Division and 2nd field Artillery Brigade support the French counter-attack that captures Chateau-Thierry. Casualties: 1,908

June 6-26, 1918-The Battle of Belleau Wood: the American 7th Infantry Regiment, 4th Marine Brigade and the engineers of the 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divisions support the French Army by their successful capture and defense of Belleau Wood. Casualties: 8,400

June 9-June 13, 1918-The Battle of Montdidier-Noyon: the American 1st Infantry Division contributes to the French counter-attack by their capture of Montdidier-Noyon.
June 26-July 3, 1918-The Battle of Vaux: the American 2nd Infantry Division support the French counter-attack with the capture of Vaux. Casualties: 7,588

July 15-18, 1918-The Champagne-Marne Operation: the American 26th, 3rd, 28th and 42nd Infantry Divisions and the 369th Infantry Regiment with the French 6th, 5th and 4th Armies successfully defend against the German 'Friedenstrum Offensive' and launch a counter-attack on July 18th. Casualties: 7,317

July 18-August 6, 1918-The Aisne-Marne Operation: the American 1st, 2nd, 26th, 3rd, 28th, 4th, 42nd and 32nd Infantry Divisions are organized into the American I and III Corps that participate with the French 10th, 6th, 9th and 5th armies in the Franco-American offensive that marks the beginning of the German Army's retreat from France. Casualties: 38,490

August 7-November 11, 1918-The Oisne-Aisne Operation: the American III Corps Headquarters, corps troops, 28th, 32nd, 77th Infantry Divisions and the 370th Infantry Regiment are attached to the French 10th, 6th and 5th armies and contribute to the French counter-attacks over four months that cause the Germans to retreat and to ask for an armistice. Casualties: 2,767

August 19-November 11, 1918-The Ypres-Lys Operation: the American 27th, 30th, 37th and 91st Infantry Divisions are attached to the Belgian, French 6th and British 2nd armies in support of the allied offensives in Flanders that forced the retirement of the German Army from Flanders. Casualties: 2,043

October 24-November 4, 1918-The Vittorio Veneto: the American 332nd Infantry Regiment, 331st Field Hospital and a motor truck train are attached to the British 31st Division in support of the allied counter-attack against the Austro-Hungarian Army in northern Italy.

August 8-November 11, 1918-The Somme Offensive: the American 27th, 30th, 33rd, 78th and 80th Infantry Divisions are organized as the American II Corps and fought with the British 4th Army in eight engagements in Belgium and in northern France at the Battles of Bellicourt, Montbrehain and the Selle River. Casualties: 15,034

September 12-16, 1918-The St. Mihiel Operation: the American First Army that consisted of the American I, IV and V Corps with the support of the French II Colonial Corps successfully reduced the St Mihiel salient by attacking and forcing the German Army to retreat from the Salient. Casualties: 8,600

September 26-November 11, 1918-The Meuse-Argonne Offensive: the American First Army that consisted of the American I, III, IV and V Corps with the support of the French Fourth Army launches its largest operation that led to the retreat of the German Army and their asking for an armistice ending American operations and the war. Casualties: 110,508


Cheers,

George







Hi George,

Great informative post. That's quite a year of involvement by the US in WWI. Nice list of all the battles they were involved in. (1917-1918) The AEF helped throw the balance the Allies way! Certainly many of the other Allies may have played a bigger role, & paid a bigger price!? Its just suddenly a new fresh nation comes along. The situation sounds simular in WWII, but the US played a much bigger role in throwing the balance of power the Allies way!? In no way am I belittling the great part & sacrifices, each of the other Allies played!?

What say you?
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/8/2023 9:17:01 PM
Quote:
Hi George,

Great informative post. That's quite a year of involvement by the US in WWI. Nice list of all the battles they were involved in. (1917-1918) The AEF helped throw the balance the Allies way! Certainly many of the other Allies may have played a bigger role, & paid a bigger price!? Its just suddenly a new fresh nation comes along. The situation sounds simular in WWII, but the US played a much bigger role in throwing the balance of power the Allies way!? In no way am I belittling the great part & sacrifices, each of the other Allies played!?

What say you?
Regards,
MD


Dave, the allies who had been at war since 1914 were carrying the battle to the Germans in 1918. Indeed, the presence of the AEF certainly helped and certainly the Germans weren't pleased to learn of the US declaration of war in 1917. That may have encouraged them to engage in an all out attack during the Spring Offensive of 1918.

But I need to be clear. The US had not yet risen to the level of importance in this war that it likely would have had the war continued into 1919.

The US saw 52,000 killed from the over 40 divisions that eventually assembled in Europe.

The British had over 70 divisions and saw over 418,000 deaths.

The French had 110 under strength divisions by the end of the war and saw 1.3 million combat deaths.

Now the British death total probably includes the deaths of Commonwealth soldier but to put the US involvement in perspective, let us look at the number of combat deaths of the Australians and the Canadians.

The Australian contribution to the war effort was 5 divisions and about 110,000 men. In their four years of combat, they received over 61,000 combat deaths which is more than the AEF took during the war.

The Canadians Corps consisted of four beefed up divisions totalling a little over 100,000 men. Now I have read many different figures to indicate the number of combat deaths from different sources but the lowest figure that I have read is 61,000 deaths with a high figure of 66,000.

Record keeping and more recent discoveries of new sources often see these numbers revised.

In that list of AEF actions during WW1, you will note the very high number of casualties taken in its final major battle at Meuse-Argonne. That is more reflective of what awaited the AEF had to war continued for another year. Those US soldiers would have been thrust into many more higher risk situations as they were at Meuse-Argonne when they took on a major role.

Over one million US soldiers participated in that battle and 26,000 were KIA. Nearly half of the AEF combat deaths in WW1 occurred in this one bloody battle.

Such a crazy and costly war. There probably would have been many more battles just like this if the Germans had not been forced to seek an armistice prompted by defeats like this one at Meuse-Argonne. BTW, Meuse-Argonne took place from Sept. 26 and ended with the armistice on Nov. 11. Think of that. 26,000 Americans lost their lives in that short period of time.

I also must say that I too do not offer this to belittle the efforts of the AEF but I felt that need to point out that many countries had been hard at combat in this war long before the US arrived and took many more casualties.

I hope that my KIA figures are accurate. Perhaps Phil would care to comment as he keeps on top of these figures more than I do.

Cheers,

George
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
12/9/2023 3:19:54 AM
George,

You’ve given us an excellent rendition and really helped to put the figures into perspective.

The 418,000 British deaths you mentioned is very understated. The total of British deaths on the Western Front, including Dominion, Indian and Colonial contingents, came to roughly three quarters of a million, of whom more than four fifths were from the British Isles themselves. I hesitate to use the title United Kingdom, because Ireland’s status at that time has always confused me.

These include deaths from all causes: illness and accidents as well as combat. The British medical statistics meticulously compiled 677,515 killed in action or died from wounds or gas from a total of just over 709,000 deaths from all causes in France and Flanders , including Commonwealth contingents. Nearly 96% of all fatalities were deaths in battle: a remarkable feature which differentiates this war from others. There was still squalour and disease, but the appalling relentlessness, scale and intensity of fighting rendered this war uniquely bloody.

As for the US record, the 52,000 to 53,000 combat deaths represented only two thirds of all fatalities in theatre. The toll of disease was higher than it was for the British, in relative and absolute terms, and that does not allow for thirty plus thousand Americans who died from disease at home.
Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
12/9/2023 8:38:46 AM


On 12-8, yesterday,

1542 Mary Queen of Scots was born, 6 days later she is the Queen of Scotland!? Say what? Yeah sure 6 days old & she's the Queen!? Do you believe it? I don't!!! Comments anyone??

1980 John Lennon shot in NY City! Who would want to kill one of the Beatles! Sick!? What say you?

2016 Astronaut John Glenn dies at 95, later he becomes the senator from Ohio! Comments on his life?

Today, 12-9, below!

1868 the worlds first traffic light is in London! Boy I sure hate Rotories, I'm like Chevy Chase in European Vacation, once in, I can't get out!? ☺ Ill take a traffic light any day! What say you??

1958 the John Birch Society is in full swing!? I don't get it? What, & who are they? Johnny Cash wrote a humorous song about them!? ? What's up with these guys? Anyone??

1998 the UN declares anti semitisim the same as racism!? Did it help? Doesn't seem like it? Comments?

1929 Robert Hawke Prime Minister of Australia is born! Was he a good bloke?? Any Aussie comments??

Regards,
MD


----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/9/2023 9:01:29 AM
Quote:
George,

You’ve given us an excellent rendition and really helped to put the figures into perspective.

The 418,000 British deaths you mentioned is very understated. The total of British deaths on the Western Front, including Dominion, Indian and Colonial contingents, came to roughly three quarters of a million, of whom more than four fifths were from the British Isles themselves. I hesitate to use the title United Kingdom, because Ireland’s status at that time has always confused me.

These include deaths from all causes: illness and accidents as well as combat. The British medical statistics meticulously compiled 677,515 killed in action or died from wounds or gas from a total of just over 709,000 deaths from all causes in France and Flanders , including Commonwealth contingents. Nearly 96% of all fatalities were deaths in battle: a remarkable feature which differentiates this war from others. There was still squalour and disease, but the appalling relentlessness, scale and intensity of fighting rendered this war uniquely bloody.

As for the US record, the 52,000 to 53,000 combat deaths represented only two thirds of all fatalities in theatre. The toll of disease was higher than it was for the British, in relative and absolute terms, and that does not allow for thirty plus thousand Americans who died from disease at home.
Regards, Phil


Duly noted, Phil. Those are important clarifications that I did not report.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
12/9/2023 9:18:38 AM
Quote:
1868 the worlds first traffic light is in London! Boy I sure hate Rotories, I'm like Chevy Chase in European Vacation, once in, I can't get out!? ☺ Ill take a traffic light any day! What say you??


MD, if you're talking about round-abouts, I will take those over traffic lights at any time. Traffic lights annoy the hell out of me especially in small towns where they may not have installed sensors to indicate whether any cars are waiting for a left hand turn, as an example. In my small town there is a single set of traffic lights where four former rural roads come together. They are programmed so that only one of the four positions on the grid may travel at any one time. That's because the roads are offset. But when there is no traffic those lights go through the programme, (east bound, then west, then north, then south). Hard to explain without a photo.

If you have the land or space to construct a roundabout , then the authorities should do it. I think that they are much safer than traffic lights even if they are multi-laned.

Currently there is a roundabout being installed about a kilometre from my home. There is a bad intersection there where a secondary highway (max speed 80 kph) is crossed by a rural road. The rural road is busy and there have been many accidents as the people trying to cross the highway decide to take chances when highway traffic is busy. There are no street lights, just stop signs.

So the roundabout will likely see the north-south traffic on the highway forced to slow at the roundabout before continuing in those directions. The east-west traffic from the rural road will enter the roundabout safely and then exit on the other side to continue on the rural road or to enter the highway. I am looking forward to it because that intersection scares me.

Now I have experienced the roundabouts in Britain and found them to be pretty easy to manage although I think that there was a big one in Oxford that saw me going round and round a few times until I worked my way out to the outside exit lane.

Most of the problem was attributable to the fact that the car manufacturer had put the steering wheel on the wrong side and I was shifting the manual transmission with my left hand.

Cheers,

George
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