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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2022 8:30:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey guys,

Sorry I've gotten behind in posting daily history, been busy being busy!!

Reposted these history events, see if you want to comment, on any more!?? Anyone?

So here is 6-27 in history,

1787 Englishmen Edward Gibbon finishes, The rise & fall of the Roman Empire! Has anyone actually read it?? Big text, kind of put me off?? How about you??

1844 Joseph Smith of the Mormons is murdered by a mob in Carthage, Illinois! Was this religiously motivated??
Geeze even then people were racially, religiously, & sexual preference oriented & bias?? Why can't we be tollerant, moderate, & just live & let live!? We are so angry & polarized?? What say you??

1917 Greece declares war on the Central Powers! Why so late?.& were they a serious player in WWI!? Comments?

6-28 These events happened! Comment on any!??

1712 Jean Rousseau, the man who inspired the French Revolution was born! What did he do to stir every one up.?? What say you??

1838 Victoria is crowned Queen of the then British Commonwealth!? Would you say she was their most influential monarch??

1880 Ned Kelly Bush Ranger was killed in a shootout with police! I thought Rangers were good blokes!? Why would the Police gun him down!?? Anyone? Perhaps Ozers??

1894 the US Congress declares Labor day a holiday!? What say you? End of summer, A good time for a holiday!??

1914 the Assassination of the Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, starts WWI! How was this purely bad luck for the poor Arch Duke!? & how can 1 guys death cause a world war??? Anyone??

1919 the Treaty of Versailles is signed! Didn't they lay the blame on Germany!? & this was a major factor leading to WWII!?? What say you??.comments anyone??

2007 the Bald Eagle is removed from the list of endangered species! What say you? Are there many in your neck of the woods?.Anyone??

& finally today 6-29, these occurred!?

1534 Jacques Cartier land on Prince Edward Island! Is this the beginning of New France??

1767 the Townsand Acts piss of the Colonists again! is this justified!? Crown beware!!?? Comments??

On this day, in 2003 & later 2020, Rich actors like Katherine Hepburn, & then Rob Riener, die at 96, & 98 respectively! Do you think wealthy people live longer?? Bob Hope was 100!?? Anyone??

lots to discuss!
Regards,
MD

Hi Brian, & George,

Nice posts on the Bald Eagles, I believe that every time you see 1 you add a day to your life! At our ages its good to go Eagle watching!!?

6-30 in history! Comments, anyone??

1859 A guy known as Blondin crosses Niagara Falls on a tight rope! I bet quite a few Canadians, & Americans have since tried!? What say you??

1936 Author Margaret Mitchell published "Gone with the wind"! What say you about this novel on the Civil War in the South!? Stereo typed, or somewhat accurate!?? Anyone? I kinda liked the movie. How bout you??

1960 Zaire declares independence from Belgium! Why was this country, & territory such a horrific powder keg!? Anyone? & how did a little country like Belgium get it in the 1st place?? Comments??

1966 National Organization for Women (NOW), is founded! Many wouldn't like what's going on with their rights now?

1986 Gay rights are questioned by the Supreme Court, something that's bound to come up again soon??

1934, the night of the long knives, where Hitler, & the SS kill many opposing Germans! What say you? Didn't this show how horrific the Nazis would become?? Anyone??

Go for it! Again left these topics out there to still comment on!?
Celebrate! Yeah!!!!!
MD


Hi everyone,

Big holiday in N. America, this weekend is big, today is Canada day, 1867, perhaps our friends from the great white north could share it's history, & their best celebrations of it?? Anyone? BTW Happy Canada Day, It's great to have such friendly nation to our north!!!!!

& of course it's Independence day, 7-4, in the US! Hopefully we will remain a Democracy for years to come? Land of the free? What say you?? Anyway have a great holiday WE! Please keep up this thread, I'll be up north at our cottage, bad internet area, until Monday!? So pitch in if you can!?

Also 7-1-1863, the 1st day of the Battle of Gettysburg! & the Unions best day on 7-4, when they won both Vicksburg, & Gettysburg! Please comment on these great battles, & what was important about them!? Anyone??

Also today in history 1997, The British Commonwealth gives up the colony of Hong Kong, peacefully! How did this happen? Would it have possibly been taken by force if the Brits kept it?? Anyone?

Beer, BBQ, fireworks! Alright!!!!!!!!
MD

BTW MHO'ers from other countries, when is your big celebration days!? We want to know??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2022 12:30:29 PM
Quote:
Also today in history 1997, The British Commonwealth gives up the colony of Hong Kong, peacefully! How did this happen? Would it have possibly been taken by force if the Brits kept it?? Anyone?


The British Commonwealth did not cede Hong Kong to China but the UK did and it was a negotiated deal that was signed in 1984 between the UK and China. It was agreed that the UK would lower its flag and that Hong Kong would become part of China but the island would operate under a different set of rules to that of mainland China. Hong Kong would be permitted to retain much of its democratic system and its laws based judiciary. So a multi-party democracy developed along with an independent judiciary.

Note that in 1842, GB had taken over Hong Kong. Many of the world's imperialists were active in China, compelling a weak Chinese government and military to allow them to operate in economic zones as if those zones were colonies. By 1898, the British sought to expand their territory to include part of the mainland opposite the island. These were called the New Territories and it is this British controlled territory that was attack by the Japanese initially at about the same time as the Pearl Harbor raid. Hong Kong island fell on Christmas Day, 1941. Other than those four years of Japanese occupation, HK had been under British control since 1842.

But in 1898, Britain signed a 99 year lease on the New Territories and promised that they would leave the New Territories at the end of that period.

And Britain did try to extend the deal beyond 99 years, citing other treaties that assured British interest in Hong Kong but China would have none of it. Britain suggested that China assume sovereignty while Hong Kong remained under British administration. Again China said no.

In fact, China announced that if it did not receive an agreement to transfer sovereignty of Hong Kong (the New Territories plus the Island), it was prepared to take over unilaterally.

The changeover was set for 1997, one hundred and one years later and in a formal ceremony, the UK departed from the New Territories.

Fast forward 30 years and it is clear that China has abrogated its responsibilities to honour the "one country, two systems" agreement. The treaty stipulated that Hong Kong would have 50 years under the "one country, two systems" rule.

Britain was a great colonial power, an imperial power and it has gradually divested itself of these colonies, allowing many to declare independence. Financially, having carried the burden of fighting two costly wars in the 20th century, the UK was in no position to maintain an empire.

And there were countries, including the US that were happy to see the demise of the British Empire.

Was the UK naive to think that the Chinese would honour a agreement in perpetuity when the deal was only to cover 50 years? Perhaps.

So now that the Chinese Empire seeks to expand by claiming islands of democracy like Taiwan and Hong Kong, to change their system of governance, to cancel freedoms, and by seeking to influence other nations across the world through its "belt and road" policy, who is able to stop them?

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2022 3:04:07 PM
Quote:
Big holiday in N. America, this weekend is big, today is Canada day, 1867, perhaps our friends from the great white north could share it's history, & their best celebrations of it?? Anyone? BTW Happy Canada Day, It's great to have such friendly nation to our north


Indeed it is Canada's 155th birthday and we celebrate a return to normal celebrations in small towns across the country and in the big cities.

Not only has the pandemic impacted celebrations but the way that Canada thinks about itself had been challenged with the revelations surrounding the treatment of First Nations in our colonial past. Specifically, we think about the little kids who died in government sponsored if not government run, residential schools. And so for me, I am conflicted as I am very proud of what this country has accomplished and its values and I know that it is difficult to reconcile those feelings with the knowledge of the abuses inflicted upon FN's throughout the settlement period of Canada's history.

This country was founded by British colonies, Canada (The United Provinces of Canada, formerly Upper and Lower Canada) and Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. The concept had been bandied about for years but it is remarkable that the disparate colonies valued their independence and their association with Great Britain.

A final impetus toward Confederation came during the US civil war. The US, angry with Britain for its tacit approval of the existence of the Confederate states had made numerous threats during the war that Union forces should cross the border to seize the remaining British colonies. These threats arose from time to time since the US War of Independence but the US had not invaded since 1812.

The fact that Confederate spies based in the Canadian colonies were organizing and undertaking operations against the Union made the US very angry. Of course, there were Union spies in Canada too.

The Trent Affair nearly lead to warfare between Britain and the US as Britain would not tolerate the boarding of a British vessel by a US warship. Feeling that war was possible and listening to the threats by US politicians including the much despised Secretary of State, William Seward, Britain despatched thousands of troops to North America.

It was perhaps the existence of the mighty RN on station in Halifax, Bermuda and Jamaica that deterred the Americans though Lincoln seemed adverse to the conduct of two wars at once. Meanwhile, there was pressure in Britain from some politicians to reduce its international commitments. Some of these "Little Englanders" would not have objected to the loss of the British colonies to the US.

And so the British suggested strongly that an amalgamation of the colonies would serve to protect the existence of these colonies in the face of US threats. With that of course was the suggestion that the new Canada would have to assume greater responsibility for its defence.

With Sir John A. Macdonald of the United Province of Canada as the driving force, four of the British colonies agreed to form a confederation from July, 1, 1867 with the full approval and encouragement of the British government.

We are still here and, I think, doing quite well. We have problems that we need to address but on the whole this is a wonderful place to live. And I am thankful to be a citizen of this nation, proud to be so.

As I write, thousands of people have gathered in Ottawa to party and bask in the joy of being a citizen of the nation. There is a small vocal minority who have co-opted the use of our flag to show up to protest vaccine mandates for federal workers (I think, who knows?). It grates upon me to see these people attempt to disrupt the festivities once again but they do have that right so long as they remain peaceful and don't violate any laws.

Happy Canada Day to my fellow Canucks on the forum and to all our friends as well.

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2022 7:42:59 PM
Thanks, George. Happy Canada Day to you and to all MHOers of our ilk.

I hardly have time to write, but wanted to note that on this day in 1690 William III of England – much better known as William of Orange – defeated forces loyal to the deposed King James II in a major battle in Ireland. Known as the Battle of the Boyne, after the river near which it was fought, it sealed the fate of the House of Stuart as monarchs of the dual kingdoms of England and Scotland. It is still celebrated (on occasion with considerable rancour) by Protestants in Northern Ireland.

There would be two further attempts by the Stuarts to regain the monarchy, one by the “Old Pretender” (James) in 1715 and a second by the “Young Pretender” (James’ son Charles – best known as Bonnie Prince Charlie) in 1745. Neither was successful.

IMHO, William of Orange will always be a controversial but under-rated figure. He was in his day respected (he was elected effectively as a ruler of five Lowlands states. He was a clever and effective soldier (he held off the French forces attempting to overpower the Protestant Stadts). Yet for most folks, he is the husband of Mary, daughter of Charles II, who was offered the thrones because she was a staunch Protestant.

Gotta go. Heading out for dinner at a restaurant famous for refusing to cater to the requests of Harry and Meghan!

Cheers,
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/2/2022 10:04:27 PM
Phil, I didn’t have a chance to respond yesterday, when you posted:Quote:
Brian,

Was Hitler under pressure to purge his party of some of the most conspicuously plebeian elements in order to secure support from the Officer Corps, which retained its aristocratic character ? I’ve read that Hitler never forgave this, and nurtured a profound grudge which might account to a degree for some of his actions in the war.


Talking of wars, today [ed.: 1.07] in 1863 and 1916 marked the opening of two huge battles ; Gettysburg and the Somme

I don’t know quite how to answer this, in that I don’t know whether it was the Officer Corps, the industrial sector, or the NSADP itself which most felt the need to purge such a huge, violent element from the party once it came to power. While I’m certain that the purging of the leaders of the SA would equally have found favour with the industrial sector and the Officer Corps, for various reasons, there was also trepidation within the Nazi Party that the SA was a threat because of its size, propensity to violence, and increasing sense of grievance.

Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote, “mere things are in the saddle and ride mankind.” I sense that there was real fear amongst Nazi leaders that those 400,000 SA men might reject Nazi political control in favour of an ongoing condition of social violence. So however impactful the Officer Corp’s distaste may have been, or whatever demands may have been made by the industrial sector, there was a compelling need for Hitler and his cronies to render the SA headless, and then begin to redirect the energy SA groups had in abundance.

As well, of course, the militancy of the SA remained a large part of the Nazi credo. Horst Wessel, e.g., was a member of a recognized militant group of SA in Berlin. He died as a result of a confrontation (I believe with Communists) in 1930, but he was turned into a martyr for the Nazi cause by our friend Joseph Goebbels; the “Horst-Wessel-Leid” – written by Wessel in 1929 – became and remained a co-anthem of the Third Reich until 1945. Below is an attempt at a link to a rendition of the Horst-Wessel-Lied, sung by a Cathedral choir in 1936. Trigger the bar offering 3:21 of sound. If my link doesn’t work, I recommend you track it down just to hear the power of the work. With luck, you’ll also find a closed-caption transliteration into English.

[Read More]

My point, I guess, is that the Nazi party needed the sense of militancy to maintain the urgency of its beliefs. Hence the proliferation of uniforms. Hence the Hitlerjugend and the Bund Deutscher Mädel. Some kind of “cult of the warrior” was vital to Nazism.

Just some thoughts, Phil. Hi to Lynn.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/2/2022 10:21:26 PM
On this day in 1644, the “Battle of Marston Moor” led to a decisive victory over the Royalists of Charles I by Parliamentary forces known at the time as “Roundheads”. Cromwell’s “New Army” would soon replace Roundheads as this first part of the English Civil war continued.

I offer this note with recognition of the ongoing battles of the “English Civil War”, but also in memory of John Barratt, a scholar of the period and former member of MHO. John disappeared more than 10 years ago. He was a great correspondent, a fine historian, and a person of wit and subtlety. I still miss him.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2022 8:17:48 AM
Quote:
I offer this note with recognition of the ongoing battles of the “English Civil War”, but also in memory of John Barratt, a scholar of the period and former member of MHO. John disappeared more than 10 years ago. He was a great correspondent, a fine historian, and a person of wit and subtlety. I still miss him.

Cheers
Brian G


[Read More]

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1064
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
7/4/2022 1:37:41 PM
Brian Grafton said:

On this day in 1644, the “Battle of Marston Moor” led to a decisive victory over the Royalists of Charles I by Parliamentary forces known at the time as “Roundheads”. Cromwell’s “New Army” would soon replace Roundheads as this first part of the English Civil war continued.

I offer this note with recognition of the ongoing battles of the “English Civil War”, but also in memory of John Barratt, a scholar of the period and former member of MHO. John disappeared more than 10 years ago. He was a great correspondent, a fine historian, and a person of wit and subtlety. I still miss him.

Cheers
Brian G
Hi Brian,

As Trevor showed, John is still busy writing away. I’m sure you could reach out to contact him if you like. I too miss him and others who have since moved on from the forums.

Cheers,

Colin

P.S. this is my first post on the new forum, Brian W supplied me with the test link. It looks really smart!

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"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/4/2022 6:37:46 PM
Colin, I have already attempted to follow up using Trevor’s link. I have “friended” him on Twitter, but expect little; his last post I there was 2018, as far as I can see.

John and I became (I thought) quite close; we were in private correspondence at least weekly for more than a year. I wrote reviews for three of his books. For me, it’s both a personal and an MHO loss.

I too have been trying the new forum layout. It looks cleaner than the current format, and I like the flag identifiers. That seems to becoming a new standard on a lot of sites these days. I’ll admit I’m having trouble finding how to generate a new post, or even how to reply to a post, but know those issues will be worked out. In fact, I may have just figured it out while typing this post!

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2022 10:33:39 AM
Hey guys,

Thanks for keeping up with the posts! Sounds like most had a good holiday!? We're starting with 7-3, to 7-5 today for new events, comment or post on any , or something new!?

7-3-1608 Samuel Champlain founds the Canadian city of Quebec, any websites on it's history? Anyone?

1856 the US admits Kansas as A state! What was the phrase "Bloody Kansas", about? Comments??

1863 the Battle of Gettysburg is settled, in your opinion, why did the Union win!??? What say you??

7-4, in history! Comments??

1802 the US military Academy is opened in West Point! How was it threatened, early on?? Anyone??

1826 Thomas Jefferson, & John Adams, both die on the 4th of July! 50 years after the Declaration of independence!
Very ironic what say you??

1884 the Statue of Liberty is dedicated to the US from France!? Why???

1946 the Philippines are declared independent! See the US is not always imperialistic!? Comments??

7-5 in history!?

1810 PT Barnum starts a circus! My son & many other kids didn't like it, when they heard animals were mistreated!?

1859 US Captain Brooks claims the Midway Islands to the US!? Were they occupied by natives?? You never hear of it? Is the US still imperialistic? Anyone??

1865 the US Secret Service is started!? Does your country have anything similar!? Anyone??

1950 Jewish people declared citizens in returning to Isreal! What was the problem with this!?? What about the other peoples living there!?? Comments, anyone??

What say you??
Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2022 12:48:40 PM
Quote:
1946 the Philippines are declared independent! See the US is not always imperialistic!? Comments??


US imperialism was evident in the seizure of the Philippines, MD. The Spanish-American war, a US victory, gave the US several new territories including Philippines. That war was predicated upon disagreements between Spain and the US over Cuba and when a US ship exploded in Havana harbour, the US declared war. And after the peace treaty was signed in 1898, the US gained Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines. And it retained interest in Cuba for decades and still does for that matter although a sort of independence was established in Cuba but not in the Philippines.

There were politicians and citizens who were not pleased that the US decided to keep not only the Philippines and other Spanish possessions. The US had fought for independence against a power that it considered to represent the evils of imperialism and so to become an imperialist seemed to fly in the face of the ideals upon which the US was founded. The US Anti-Imperialist League mounted a campaign to discourage the US from becoming an imperialist nation.

The Filipinos had anticipated that with the defeat of Spain that they would gain their independence. In fact, they had declared their independence 5 months before the US defeated Spain, but the US annexed the Philippines anyway with the co-operation of the Spanish governor based in Manila. The Filipinos who had been fighting Spain then continued the rebellion against their new masters beginning in 1899.

At the beginning of the conflict, the Filipino rebels controlled nearly every part of the country except Manila but by 1902, they had been defeated by US forces. Rebels continued to fight for years after the surrender though.

And this war wasn't pretty. There are historians who accuse the US of engaging in a genocide in the Philippines. US promises of an independent Philippines in the future were dismissed by the rebels as just talk.

Cheers,

George

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2022 1:35:09 PM
Quote:
7-3-1608 Samuel Champlain founds the Canadian city of Quebec, any websites on it's history? Anyone?


Europeans had been fishing around Newfoundland and the Gulf of St. Lawrence for years before the French sent Jacques Cartier up the St. Lawrence River in 1535, where he encountered Iroquoian people living in a village called Stadacona on the site of what would eventually be Québec City. Cartier found about 1000 people living there.

Indigenous people had been living on this site periodically for centuries. It's strategic importance could be seen by the Europeans. The First Nations farmed here and fished and hunted.

Cartier spent a winter there and went home. He returned in 1541 and stayed for another winter at a point of land called Cap Rouge, not far from Stadacona. Cartier took a lot of ore home, thinking that he had found diamonds and gold but he found nothing of value.

Another French man named Roberval returned in 1542 and spent one winter at Cap Rouge. The French essentially gave up on Canada for a few decades, not realizing the riches that were there. Both the Cartier and Roberval attempts to settle were failures.

But in 1608, Samuel de Champlain established a settlement at Stadacona. He had been travelling in the area from 1603. The Iroquois had left but other tribes had taken their place. Champlain's colonization attempt wasn't a smooth one but the French did stay and until 1759, the city was controlled by the French.

[Read More]

This video is an oldie produced by the National Film Board of Canada. It shows its age in the use of the name "Indians" rather than "First Nations". Still it gives a decent overview of Champlain's contribution to North American history.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2022 8:25:36 PM
A few days ago we were having a discussion about Philippe Pétain, WW1 hero and the head of the French government based in Vichy, France during WWII.

While France must reconcile its respect for the man and his efforts during the Great War with the fact that he collaborated with the Nazis in WWII, it seems that the man's reputation can still rouse some to anger when his name is mentioned.

I refer to Mount Philippe Pétain which is a mountain in the Canadian Rockies which was named after Marshal Pétain in 1919, just after WW1. The mountain straddles the inter-provincial border between the Canadian provinces of British Columbia and Alberta.

A man and his son have been fighting for years to have the name of this geographic feature changed because they did not wish to see the name of a collaborator and enemy of Canada on any mountain anywhere in Canada.

The CBC article below notes that after the Dieppe raid in which nearly 1000 Canadians were killed that Pétain sent a telegram to the Nazis to congratulate them on their victory at Dieppe. Pétain denied this at his trial.

The mountain is no longer named after Philippe Pétain but the father who petitioned to have the name changed did not live to see his wish fulfilled. There is a Mount Foch nearby. I wonder whether Foch would approve of the name change.

I am not sure of how I feel about this. We are very busy changing the names of streets and parks who bear the names of former heroes who have been discovered to have been associated with some of the more sordid aspects of our history like slavery or the subjugation of the First Nations. How will future generations learn the full story of these people and their influence on the development of Canada. Pétain too was a war hero and fully deserving of the praise that he received during and just after WW1.

[Read More]

Old topic I know but perhaps interesting to some.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2022 12:22:45 AM
Phil, good, complicated unanswerable question. I sent a long answer last night (I think). Seems to have not taken.

I sense that this might have more to do with placating the huge corporations whose money and support were both needed to advance the values and schemes of the Nazi government. Undermining the ascendency of both SA conduct and potential would release men from radical street values to availability of committed bodies for both the military and for industry.

And, as well, the SA were much to large to be allowed to continue with the program of increased radicalization and violence which was a good weapon during the early 30s as the Nazis saw the value of uniformed thugs breaking up rivals’ meetings but a badly-controlled power who might follow the whims of SA leaders rather than Hitler.

Cheers
Brian G

PS: see PM

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
peters
Melbourne, Vic.  Australia
Posts: 1
Joined: 2012
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2022 4:59:28 AM
Quote:

1880 Ned Kelly Bush Ranger was killed in a shootout with police! I thought Rangers were good blokes!? Why would the Police gun him down!?? Anyone? Perhaps Ozers??


Hi Mich.

Ned was the wrong sort of ranger - as you could guess- bushrangers were outlaws and in this case Ned and his gang has previously ambushed and killed 3 police officers looking for them. When the police finally trapped the gang Ned was wearing 1880's style body armour including helmet [Read More] In the shootout that followed an Officer got behind Ned and shot him in the legs. He lived and was tried for murder and hung. There is a lot of backstory relating to Irish immigrants, corrupt police etc.

Peter (first time doing this hope it works tried earlier but I think I stuffed it up:)
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2022 7:17:33 AM
It worked Peter and welcome to the forum.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2022 3:18:10 PM
Quote:
Hey guys,

Today in history events not commented on yet????

7-3 in history,

1856 the US admits Kansas as A state! What was the phrase "Bloody Kansas", about? Comments??

1863 the Battle of Gettysburg is settled, in your opinion, why did the Union win!??? What say you??

7-4, in history! Comments??

1802 the US military Academy is opened in West Point! How was it threatened, early on?? Anyone??

1826 Thomas Jefferson, & John Adams, both die on the 4th of July! 50 years after the Declaration of independence!
Very ironic what say you??

1884 the Statue of Liberty is dedicated to the US from France!? Why??? Did they deserve it?

7-5 in history!?

1810 PT Barnum starts a circus! My son & many other kids didn't like it, when they heard animals were mistreated!?

1859 US Captain Brooks claims the Midway Islands to the US!? Were they occupied by natives?? You never hear of it? Is the US still imperialistic? Anyone??

1865 the US Secret Service is started!? Does your country have anything similar!? Anyone??

1950 Jewish people declared citizens in returning to Isreal! What was the problem with this!?? What about the other peoples living there!?? Comments, anyone??

What say you??
Regards,
MD


7-6 historical happenings!? BTW thanks for yesterday's replies, they were excellent!!!


1535 In England Thomas More loses his head over something Henry VIII did!? Why so harsh on the guy? No freedom of speech back then??

1777 British Gen Johnny Burgoyne takes Fort Ticonderoga!? Wasn't it impregnable? How did he do it? What say you??

1885 Louis Pasteur makes a anti rabies vaccine! Did he discover any other Vacines or medical helpers??

1995 the Serbs, massacre over 7,000 Bosnian Moslems! Worst mass killings ever?? Were they ever punished?? Anyone??

Just a few, any others??
Carry on!!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2022 8:36:57 PM
Quote:
1777 British Gen Johnny Burgoyne takes Fort Ticonderoga!? Wasn't it impregnable? How did he do it? What say you??


Fort Ticonderoga was considered an important asset by the British and the Americans because of its position at the southern end of the critical water highway route called Lake Champlain. This lake and the others that link with it provided the easiest access to the Montréal area in Canada and of course, into the heart of New York State.



When the French dominated this area, they built Fort Carillon on the site that would be renamed Fort Ticonderoga. In 1758, during the French and Indian War, the British suffered a major and bloody defeat at the hands of the French under Montcalm when they tried to attack and seize Fort Carillon.

In 1775, the rebels seized the fort, now called Ticonderoga.

And in 1777, the British attacked the fort and the high mountains surrounding it. They rebels had elected not to send sufficient numbers to defend the fort. The British managed to drag artillery on one of the mountains near the fort and when the rebels realized that they were there, their commander elected to retreat.

And they left with whatever they could carry but left behind some cannon. The rebels boarded boats and headed down the lake. Some headed east by land.

The fort was taken without a fight and the British chased the rebels and engaged in several skirmishes on the days to follow. There were very few casualties on either side.

The Continental Congress and George Washington were extremely upset that this key position had been surrendered without much of a fight. The rebel forces were outmanned however and that is why they elected to leave the fort.

It was an important victory for the British because it opened up the Hudson River valley to the British forces, demanding a response.

The British had hoped that this victory would allow them to split the rebel forces and to isolate or wall off the New England rebels.

But the rebels harassed Burgoyne's force and eventually beat him at Saratoga and that brought the French into the fight which was a major factor in securing the rebel victory.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/7/2022 8:30:25 PM
On this day in 1896, the Kingdom of Hawaii was annexed by the US. The annexation was no by agreement, but was a hostile take-over. This was an act of Imperialism, and IMHO this act was an act of colonialism hardly different from any take-overs by the British, French, Netherlands or other powers. It was, in effect, the beginning of a century of US imperialism, justified by cries of economic, political, territorial or doctrinal necessity.

IIUC, the annexation was approved by the US Congress based on two apparent needs:
1.  Because of the beginning of the Spanish-American War, the US deemed it necessary to require a Pacific naval/military base for “defensive purposes”.
2,  The Dole family, together with other US families building economic empires, felt they were too restricted by the terms under which the Kingdom of Hawaii had permitted them entry.

Just to push a bit, but while honestly wanting to understand, in what ways are the US hostile take-overs of Hawaii, and later the Philippines, different from the British taking Hong Kong in 1841? The French assuming control of Vietnam? 

Cheers,
Brian G









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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2022 4:09:09 PM
7-8 in history, the following events happened,,,

1497 Vasco da Gama sails to India! How did he do financially on this venture?? Anyone?

1889 John l Sullivan won the Heavy Weight Boxing Championship over Jake Kilerain in get this? 75 rounds!??? This has to be a misprint!? 75 Rounds! ? I would think they would hang it up, if they knew it would go 75 rounds? Anyone with the details??

1947 Roswell, NM extraterrestrial incident! Did they really have aliens body, and space craft? Or a hoax!? What say you??

Gen.. Douglas MacArthur is named Allied Commander in Korea! He did he do a good job?? Anyone?

2011 last Space Shuttle mission! Why did they cease?? Comments??

New events, anyone??
MD

BTW nice map & post on Fort Ticonderoga George!

& Brian, Not justifing the US annexing Hawaii but considering its only10% native Hawaiians living there, & its almost 40% Asians, what would of happened if the US (25% caucasians' not sure of US breakdown on this) left It alone?? Anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2022 5:57:53 PM
The US was an eager expansionist country from its inception. Part of the reason that it rebelled against Britain was because the British, through adoption of the Quebec Act had curtailed US expansion into the Ohio Valley. Some of the leaders of the rebellion, including Washington were land speculators with interests in the Ohio Valley even though the British did not want any of their colonists to cross the mountains to the Ohio area.

Once an independent state, the US eagerly gobbled up any available land in North America either through purchase in a sweetheart deal (Louisiana) or by flooding territories with people and then supporting the eagerness of those people to join the union. (Texas, Oregon).

With the rest of the world using its colonial empires to further economic ends, the US was late to the party but took control of Spanish possessions after the S-A war. And they already had economic interests in China as did many other European nations.

The US also felt the need to establish a naval presence and later, a dominant naval presence in the Pacific Ocean. Hawaii had been annexed in 1898. Guam was taken in 1898, during the S-A war. The US paid a large sum to Spain to gain control of the Philippines but the Filipino rebels did not roll over and the US had to fight a bloody war to subdue them.

And finally (I think) in 1903, the US, not without a threatening posture toward Canada, was granted the Alaska/Canada border that it demanded. So as the US entered the 20th century there was a flurry of expansion and consolidation.

Brian asked whether US imperialism was any different from that of Britain or other European nations. I think that all were motived by economics and by security concerns. And they all felt that they were superior examples of the human race and so racism was a factor in the annexation or seizure of colonies.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2022 8:50:03 PM
Quote:
Gen.. Douglas MacArthur is named Allied Commander in Korea! He did he do a good job?? Anyone?

Truth in advertising: I’m not a MacArthur fan. Please keep this in mind when reading my post.

MacArthur was, in effect, military ruler in Japan at the time, but his military sway extended to South Korea (where the US maintained troops – albeit garrison-type troops) representing Western support of South Korea. On 25 June 1950, with the invasion by North Korea, he was the most senior western officer on active duty in Asia.

I’m not sure MacArthur did such a great job. It took a long time for the troops he commanded to bring the North Korean attack to a halt, which does not suggests he could motivate his troops. The Inchon landings were well executed and highly successful, but in truth there was nothing brilliant in the concept or the execution.

As to military assessment, even Harry Truman seems to have been more sensible than MacArthur. Sure, have to accept that in the US the military serves the administration. That’s as it should be, IMHO. But there are avenues by which the military can offer assessments and render advice. IMHO, MacArthur’s reading of Communist China’s potential responses to US nuclear strikes, and his apparent disregard of potential Soviet retaliation needed to be listened to. Truman listened, and rejected MacArthurs assessment. That should have been “end of story”. That MacArthur allowed the disagreement to be discussed openly was a grave error, and would cost him his position.

I’m not certain that Harry Truman had the ideas, leaders or troops to win the kind of limited war that continued after MacArthur was dismissed. Clearly, the “Bug-out from the Yalu” suggests not, just as the rout following the 25 June 50 invasion suggests MacArthur led troops he left unprepared for a potential war situation.

Had MacArthur carried the day with his strategies to end the Korean War, I am convinced the entire world would look very different today, and in no positive way for the West.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2022 9:31:57 PM
Quote:
7-8 in history, the following events happened,,,

1497 Vasco da Gama sails to India! How did he do financially on this venture?? Anyone?

1889 John l Sullivan won the Heavy Weight Boxing Championship over Jake Kilerain in get this? 75 rounds!??? This has to be a misprint!? 75 Rounds! ? I would think they would hang it up, if they knew it would go 75 rounds? Anyone with the details??

1947 Roswell, NM extraterrestrial incident! Did they really have aliens body, and space craft? Or a hoax!? What say you??

Gen.. Douglas MacArthur is named Allied Commander in Korea! He did he do a good job?? Anyone? Bri. says no!?

2011 last Space Shuttle mission! Why did they cease?? Comments??

New events, anyone??
MD

BTW nice map & post on Fort Ticonderoga George!

& Brian, Not justifing the US annexing Hawaii but considering its only10% native Hawaiians living there, & its almost 40% Asians, what would of happened if the US (25% caucasians' not sure of US breakdown on this) left It alone?? Anyone??


7-9 a couple of events.

1540 Henry VIII's 4th wife Anne of Cleves has a religious ending to her marriage! Why?? Anyone??

British Gen Braddock in the battle of Monogahela, 2/3 rds of his army is killed by French & Indians, lucky for America, George Washington survives! What say you?? What happened?

Surely more happened on this day? Anyone??
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2022 8:02:11 AM
Quote:
British Gen Braddock in the battle of Monogahela, 2/3 rds of his army is killed by French & Indians, lucky for America, George Washington survives! What say you?? What happened?


The essentials of the battle are that a British and colonial force which was much larger than the French and Indian force was soundly defeated en route to the French Fort Duquesne, which Braddock hoped to seize.

There were a number of British and French forts to the south of Lake Erie and none were more important than Fort Duquesne which oversaw the forks of the Ohio where the Ohio, Monongahela and Allegheny Rivers meet. The site of Fort Duquesne would eventually become the city of Pittsburgh. With the encouragement of the English colonies, many of whose citizens had land interests in the Ohio Vallley, General Braddock decided to take the fort.

Braddock spent a good deal of time in building a road to get to Fort Duquesne. He hoped that this would be a supply road once the fort was in British hands.

The small French force and its Indian allies knew that Braddock was on his way and the French commanders decided that it would be best to confront Braddock's force before they reached Fort Duquesne. And this they did. They did not fight conventionally but made use of the trees and geography to snipe at the British.

Braddock insisted that his troops would fight as gentlemen and so kept encouraging his officers to reform his panicked troops into the lines that were effective on European battlefields. In the early stages of the French and Indian War, the British experienced defeats partly because of their insistence on the use of ineffective tactics. They would learn to incorporate the tactics of irregular or guerrilla warfare as the war went on and eventually lead to the defeat of the French.

So the French successfully disrupted the attack. The British thought that they had been ambushed but historians have determined that when the battle was joined it was more by happenstance. The French had not had time to establish an ambush so when the two sides met, they began to fight and the British did not adapt to the French and Indian tactics.

Time and again the British officers had to reform their lines as the troops buckled. When General Braddock was shot from his horse, the will to fight disappeared and the retreat began. Apparently, Col. Washington was effective in organizing a controlled retreat. Cannon and supplies were destroyed and they left.

Ironically, the French side was too small to pursue as the British force was still much larger.

Many of the officers on the British side would eventually betray their country and join the American revolutionary side. Some of them actually owned land (see edit) in the Ohio Valley upon which the fighting occurred and so they had a vested interest in removing the French from the territory. The French and their Indian allies were a roadblock to expansion from the east side of the Allegheny Mountains and that is why the colonists wanted the British to remove the French who, with their allies, would brutally attack any attempts at settlement.

EDIT: In 1754, Virginians who agreed to join the colonial regiment to fight the French were promised land in the Ohio Valley as a reward for service. They did not receive these lands until after the revolution. My post may have indicated that the Ohio Valley was settled land. It was not, in 1754.

Ironically, the British discouraged settlement beyond the mountains as they did not have the troops to support the new territory and they felt that the First Nations deserved a large reserve of "Indian" land in the Ohio Valley.

A map of some of the forts in the area. Note that Washington, also a land owner and speculator in the Ohio Valley, had made several forays into the valley. He had been defeated at Fort Necessity in July of 1754 and had been accused of assassinating a French envoy at the Battle of Jumonville Glen, May 28 of 1754. This was the spark that lead to all out fighting of the French and Indian Wars.



Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2022 11:34:08 PM
I will not make a post out of the 60th anniversary of the release of Bob Dylan’s “Blowin’ In the Wind”. But I believe the release of this song signalled the onset of change for a generation of North American teens and young adults.

Most popular music is by nature ephemeral – popular, but ultimately vacuous. Dylan went far beyond pop music, starting with “Blowin’ In the Wind!”. Like Leonard Cohen, he gave voice to the inherent universalist in all of us. They will be remembered.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 6:48:23 PM
7-10 in history, these events happened!?

1553 Lady Jane Grey becomes Queen of England for only 9 days!? How can this be?? Anyone??

1925 the famous Scopes Monkey trial in Tennessee occurs!. What happened & what does this say about many religious people in the US & its legal system? at this time?? Anyone!?

1965 the Rolling Stones have the #1 hit, I can't get no satisfaction, what effect did the Stones have on rock music!? What say you??

1973 the Bahamas become independent from the British Empire! How could the Brits let go of this tropical paradise!? Comments??

1985 Why don't the Japanese Whaling vessels like Greenpeace?? & why would the French sink their ship the Rainbow Warrior!? Who's side are you on in this conflict of monetary gain verse conservation of saving a species?? Anyone?

MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 6:52:47 PM
Quote:
And last but not least, this happened!?

1962 Telstar communications satilite is launched! Any idea how many are up their today?? What is GPS anyway??

Surely some other important things happened? Anyone??

Stay tuned!
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 7:58:10 PM
https://www.n2yo.com/satellites/?c=&t=country
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 8:53:48 PM
Quote:
1973 the Bahamas become independent from the British Empire! How could the Bits let go of this tropical paradise!? Comments??


It was the will of the Bahamian people. They negotiated with Britain for that independence and Prince Charles delivered the papers to the Bahamian government to acknowledge that they were a fully independent nation. And so their status evolved from colony to independent state. Maintenance of a colonial empire was passé by the middle of the 20th century and Britain recognized the right of their former colonies to self determination.

I believe that Queen Elizabeth II is the Queen of the Bahamas and the head of state. The head of government would be the Bahamian PM. It probably seems odd to some that former colonies of the UK, "borrow" Queen Elizabeth to be their monarch but the arrangement has worked well for many of those colonies.

The Bahamas were a slave island under the British until abolishment of slavery in 1834. It was also a haven for Loyalists and their slaves who were forced to leave the United States after the Revolutionary War.

The population is largely descended from African slaves though there is a significant group of people with European roots. Descendants of Loyalists are scattered about the Bahamas.



Loyalist Ancestry Envy: scroll down to read the article about the Loyalists who fled to the Bahamas. Some were former British officers but others left New York, Massachusetts and the Carolinas to seeking safety in these islands.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 9:23:08 PM
George, thanks for the comment on Bahamas. You do this kind of thing very well indeed!

Never been to The Bahamas, but had a couple of extended visits to Barbados in the early 1980s. Another British colony, and one which, by 1961, became an independent constitutional monarchy, with Elizabeth II as titular monarch. IIUC, Barbados has recently declared itself a republic, replacing the Queen as head of state with an elected president. Slowly, the colonial ties are dissolving. During a recent “royals” tour – ill-considered, IMHO – William and Kate faced criticism, demands and tensions, because they were being presented as the future of monarchy while – increasingly – the monarchy is seen increasingly as a negative force. Nonetheless, the centre of the Capital is known as Trafalgar Square, and two fo the three sides of the square include Canadian institutes. That made me uncomfortable.

Oddly, I was assumed to be a “white Bajan” on both my visits. Tightly curled hair and slightly broad nose may explain that, and I don’t mean that insultingly.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 9:56:23 PM
Quote:
https://www.n2yo.com/satellites/?c=&t=country



Hi guys,

Could some one make op's site a "read more"? My tablet can't seem to do it??

Thanks,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1228
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/10/2022 11:26:47 PM
https://www.n2yo.com/satellites/?c=&t=country
[Read More] ?

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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/11/2022 10:06:26 AM
Quote:
George, thanks for the comment on Bahamas. You do this kind of thing very well indeed!

Never been to The Bahamas, but had a couple of extended visits to Barbados in the early 1980s. Another British colony, and one which, by 1961, became an independent constitutional monarchy, with Elizabeth II as titular monarch. IIUC, Barbados has recently declared itself a republic, replacing the Queen as head of state with an elected president. Slowly, the colonial ties are dissolving. During a recent “royals” tour – ill-considered, IMHO – William and Kate faced criticism, demands and tensions, because they were being presented as the future of monarchy while – increasingly – the monarchy is seen increasingly as a negative force. Nonetheless, the centre of the Capital is known as Trafalgar Square, and two fo the three sides of the square include Canadian institutes. That made me uncomfortable.

Oddly, I was assumed to be a “white Bajan” on both my visits. Tightly curled hair and slightly broad nose may explain that, and I don’t mean that insultingly.

Cheers
Brian G



Hello Brian, I have visited the Bahamas. My in-laws had been convinced to buy a time-share on one of the islands and they allowed us to use it once. I do not know what happened to the facility other than it was destroyed in a hurricane. The value of the time share?? Who knows? It and the investment have disappeared.

I found the people to be very friendly but there were also many hustlers trying to flog stuff on the streets or offering to "braid ya hair?" while on the beach. Not my hair though. Not enough of it.

We had taken a walk just off the property of the time share and at dusk, people suddenly emerged. A fellow came up to us and wanted to sell us a flower or rather a seed pod of some kind. He had a long scar on his cheek that looked like a beer bottle cut. I said "no thank-you" and he came up to me, nose to nose, and demanded that I buy. I was with my wife and daughter so I was preparing for a little self-defence when my daughter reached between us and gave the guy a US dollar. He left and we hustled back to our room.

Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth because we weren't in a bad part of a city but in a park area adjacent to our complex.

It's funny how that stays with me as all other experiences and contacts with the locals were positive.

That was many years ago and I understand that at the time, the Bahamian economy was in trouble so people were having a tough go of it.

But the air, the beaches, and the coral reefs were fantastic. And the land was flat, flat, flat. I wonder whether the rise in sea levels will impact this nation of many islands.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/11/2022 10:10:35 AM
Hi Brian,

Thanks for the read more, also in checking on 7-11 in history a few interesting history topics occured, check these out, & comment on the following, anyone??

1804, The duel between Aaron Burr & Alexander Hamilton ends in the death of Alexander Hamilton, yes the guy on US currency! What away to settle disputes!? I hear that Andrew Jackson may have been involved in over 100 duels!?
Even Mark Twain got invoved! Any good websites on the history of dueling?? What say you about this barbaric behavior? & they called themselves gentlemen!? What say you gentlemen!!??

1863 the New York Draft Riots occurred were they about the draft or racially motivated? Any websites or comments on it?? Anyone?

1914 Babe Ruth played his 1st game, was it a lively era to hit homers? What say you?? I recently visited Cooperstown, it was really cool! Anyone else visit it? Comments on the Babe!? Anyone?

1955 the US Air force Academy opens in Colorado, Can US and Canadian aircraft fly over each others airspace?? Anyone?

Summers about half over, to fast??
MD

PS Also George, never make yourself an easy mark, your not the 1st to be confronted after dark in the Bahamas!??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/11/2022 2:17:32 PM
Quote:
1955 the US Air force Academy opens in Colorado, Can US and Canadian aircraft fly over each others airspace?? Anyone?


I presume that you're talking about military aircraft and not commercial flights, MD.

My response would be that any foreign military aircraft or aircraft involved in scientific pursuits would have to apply to the federal government for permission and it has to be done several days in advance.

However, I have read that people in the city of Sarnia, not far from you MD, are up in arms because aircraft from Selfridge Air National Guard Base routinely buzz that city with A-10 Warhogs. The mayor of Sarnia has spoken to the Canadian government and the best that he received was an apology from the base commander in the US.

Apparently, the military aircraft about to enter the other country's air space simply makes a quick call to let the other side know that it is friendly aircraft who will appear in that air space. This applies to CDN and US military only, of course.

The Canadian federal government has said that a special relationship related to our joint defence measures allows Canadian aircraft to enter US air space and US aircraft to enter Canadian air space. This stems from a 2009 agreement.

Many Canadians are upset by the increased military posture by the US on the Great Lakes because they have armed their USCG vessels and are not upset by US aircraft flying over Canadian cities. The people are more concerned with our sovereignty than the federal government it may seem to some.

Now NORAD responds to incursions to the airspace of Northern Canada and to Alaska. RCAF aircraft usually respond to incursions by the Russians if it happens near Canadian airspace and the US handles Alaska. But recently there were some problems at a US base in Alaska and the RCAF was asked to cover for a couple of days. Our North American defence is deeply integrated.

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/11/2022 7:56:26 PM
1955 the US Air force Academy opens in Colorado, Can US and Canadian aircraft fly over each others airspace?

Fair question. I think George has got most of it quite right. Flights are allowed, but not automatically approved by either side. As well, I believe there are Canadian concerns about US a/c carrying certain ordnance. usually – I expect – ignored or covered by some kind of “Trojan Horse” provision. Keep in mind too that there are times when various mutual defense pacts provide access over allied territory. Some years ago, IIRC, when F-15s (Help! Might have been F-16s) started breaking up in mid-air, and a squadron was withdrawn from service out of Alaska, CF-18As out of Comox BC took over standard patrol duty over Alaska. On the negative side, during the ugly emotions between the US and CA in 2002(?), CP-140 Auroras (out of Abbotsford, BC) were flying along the sea border between the two countries with rather alarming frequency.

Most of the time, I spot US military a/c flying at high altitude to the west of Vancouver Island. These are heading to or from Alaska, or may be heading to whatever Asian bases the US still maintains. If I wish, I can sometimes watch USCG operations between Victoria and Port Angeles, but most of this air activity is by chopper and the sound never reaches me. Other US a/c stations in the area do cause disturbances for Victoria area residents, but turning money into noise is gonna bother somebody.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/12/2022 9:14:08 AM
Quote:
Hi Guys,

7-11 events, not yet commented on??

1804, The duel between Aaron Burr & Alexander Hamilton ends in the death of Alexander Hamilton, yes the guy on US currency! What away to settle disputes!? I hear that Andrew Jackson may have been involved in over 100 duels!?
Even Mark Twain got invoved! Any good websites on the history of dueling?? What say you about this barbaric behavior? & they called themselves gentlemen!? What say you gentlemen!!??

1863 the New York Draft Riots occurred were they about the draft or racially motivated? Any websites or comments on it?? Anyone?

1914 Babe Ruth played his 1st game, was it a lively era to hit homers? What say you?? I recently visited Cooperstown, it was really cool! Anyone else visit it? Comments on the Babe!? Anyone?

MD



Thanks for not shooting down USAF fighters over Canadian air space!

7-12 in history includes,

1543 Henry VIII marries his final wife Catherine Parr! Gee Henry should have gone for eight, like his title!? Comment?

1862 US Institutes it's famous "medal of honor" do other countries have something similar!?? What say you??

1920 Lithuania beats the Russians, in warfare! Say what?? Anyone?

1979 the Chicago White Sox have a demolition of disco records promo on their BB field! Badly damaging it, so my Detroit Tigers were given a forfeit victory!? These days the Tigs will take a victory anyway we can get it!? BTW did you hate disco too??


Lets go disco!! 😎
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/12/2022 5:55:02 PM
Quote:
1862 US Institutes it's famous "medal of honor" do other countries have something similar!?? What say you??


I should think that most countries with a military have some sort of honours system to recognize meritorious conduct.

The British have awarded the Victoria Cross as the highest honour available to any soldier of any rank who displays, "the most conspicuous bravery, a daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty, in the presence of the enemy."

Canada and Australia have devised their own honours system but their highest award is the Canadian Victoria Cross or the Australian Victoria Cross. The criteria to determine whether a person has qualified is worded in a similar way to that of the British description.

The US Medal of Honor and the Victoria Cross date from about the same time period. The US initiated this award during the civil war in 1861 while the Victoria Cross is dated to the Crimean War in 1854.

But there is a great difference in the number of VC's awarded as compared to the Medal of Honor. 1378 VC's have been awarded. 3 were double winners, while 3, 512 Medals of Honor have been awarded. Of these 19 were double recipients.

The Congressional Medal of Honor Society explains the criteria assessed before the Medal of Honor is awarded and says that it:

Quote:
"is authorized for any military service member who ‘distinguishes himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty.

“’While engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States;

“’While engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or

“’While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party’."


So pretty much similar in description.

I know that the Canadians who fought in Afghanistan were perplexed that no Canadian VC's were awarded while a number of people were awarded the Cross of Valour, which is one level below the VC. I have read some of the citations and certainly brave deeds were done but the veterans claim that the military was very shy about awarding a VC, not wanting to appear to be recommending them too frequently or eagerly. Perhaps growing pains that go along with the establishment of Canada's own VC were experienced. At least one of the Cross of Valour awards is being reviewed to determine whether it was actually worthy of a VC.

Cheers,

George




Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/12/2022 8:50:34 PM
Hi George,

Thanks for the Victoria Cross, & Medal of Honor comparison. It sounds like the medals need some witnesses and someone of note must nominate the recipriant!? What's the proper method to these honors being nominated??

Thanks,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/12/2022 11:05:56 PM
George, isn’t there a rather cynical saying that, if a soldier lived through an act of great bravery he should not be deemed eligible for the VC? I’ve never seen that written down, but I’ve heard it mentioned on numerous occasions.

Any person I know of who has spent even a short time studying VC recipients ends up questioning some awards while being stunned by the feats of other VCs. My personal favourite (for WW2) is the award to a Sergeant from New Zealand: Quote:
Sergeant James Allen Ward, RNZAF (attached to RAF)

Date of action: 7 July 1941 (over The Netherlands)
Date of award: 5 August 1941

James Ward was the first New Zealand airman to win the VC. The Whanganui-born schoolteacher joined the RNZAF in July 1940 and left for Great Britain to serve with the RAF after completing his pilot training. He earned his VC while returning from a raid on the German city of Münster on 7 July 1941. When his Vickers Wellington bomber was set alight by an enemy fighter plane, Ward climbed out onto the burning wing (several thousand feet in the air) and smothered the fire. Although he was unable to block the leaking petrol pipe that was feeding it, the fire eventually burnt itself out and the badly damaged bomber limped back to base. Two months later, Ward was killed when he remained at the controls of his burning aircraft after it was hit by flak over Hamburg.


The official citation for his award makes his feat much more grandiose sounding, replete with “regardless of personal safety” and “heedless of the danger” and the like. That’s not needed in this case. James Allen Ward took a fire axe and stepped outside the hull of a Wimpy, chopping holes in the wing for footholds, at a speed of approximately 130 kts+, in order to get closer to an aviation-fuelled engine fire, to chop away the cowling.

MD, if I’m not mistaken, the US Congressional Medal of Honor went through a period of relative debasement at some point during the ACW, being granted for relatively trivial actions. In fact, IIRC many awards were rescinded during a reassessment of the award’s significance. Am I wrong in this?

Cheers,
Brian G

Gotta emphasize one of George’s points. This is an all-service, rank-blind award. But it is also a combat award, and because of that limitation led (during WW2) to the creation of the George Cross, which was awarded for conspicuous acts of bravery by those not in the armed services. I believe one of the first recipients of the George Cross was a young woman (at Ventnor?) who refused to leave her post in front of a radar screen even as the CH location was under attack.

B
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