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Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6510
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/22/2022 5:28:45 PM
Helluva scrap in the Atlanta Campaign in 1864.

The Battle of Atlanta.

Months of manoeuvre and fighting culminated in this big showdown.

A bold southern plan miscarried.

Gone with the wind !

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/22/2022 6:14:14 PM
Reposted on the new page, for all MHO to view, & comment on!?


Quote:
Hi George,

Great responses on 3 of the events! Since you are of Scottish decent have you traced it back to a certain Clan?? Also Operation Atlantic was a little more complicated than I st thought thanks for the maps, & article! Isle Royale geographically probable should be part of Canada, but really the victim in losing this land was the 1st Nations!?
What say you??

7-21 in history, comments anyone??

1861 the 1 st battle of Bull Run, can you say picnic!??

1899 Ernest Hemingway was born! Interesting author, where would you rate him? Why did he commit suicide?? What say you about Ernest & his legacy!?? Comments, anyone??

1925 the courts rule the teaching of Evolution is outlawed!? Do you see the courts even today backing religious minorities, points of view?? Comments?

2011 NASA ends the Shuttle program! Why? & was it a success?? What say you?

Bring it on!?
MD


Checking 7-22 in history here's a few events, did I miss anything? Comments??

1812, the Duke of Wellington defeats the French & 40,000 soldiers! Why did he have Napoleon's number? & what made him a good commander!? What say you about the Duke??

1943 Gen. George S Patton took Solarno in Sicily!? What was the conflict with Monty all about?? Anyone?

1992 drug trafficker Pablo Escobar escapes police! Who do you get your drugs from!???

2011 Terrorists attack Oslo, 77 people are killed!? What was their motive? Anyone??

Regards,
MD



Hi Phil,

In response to your battle of Atlanta post; I just finished reading "Sherman, fighting prophet", by Lloyd Lewis, Uncle Billy was not the destructive general towards the South, that he was made out to be!? But Uncle Billy could flat out general!!! Atlanta is an example of both!?

Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/23/2022 8:39:05 AM
Again,

I'll be heading up north for the rest of the WE, with limited internet access, hope someone can hold up the fort!?

Here are some happenings from today in history, comments, or new topics? Anyone??

1885 US Grant, dies at age 63, was he a better general or president? What say you??

1903 Ford Motor Company turns out it's1st car! How will the model T revolutionize transportation?? Did Canada also get these Ford cars??

1945, Marshall Petain is convicted of Treason, & gets life imprisonment!? Any modern day treason going on recently? Anyone??

1952 in Egypt a Coup over throws King Farouk I, & his government!? Any modern day Coups occurring recently!? What say you??


Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/23/2022 11:39:51 AM
Quote:
1945, Marshall Petain is convicted of Treason, & gets life imprisonment!? Any modern day treason going on recently? Anyone??


Are we allowed to speak of the events being investigated by the Jan. 6 committee?
Or is that just what MD was talking about?

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/23/2022 12:05:44 PM
Quote:
1903 Ford Motor Company turns out it's1st car! How will the model T revolutionize transportation?? Did Canada also get these Ford cars??


In the infancy of the gas fired automobile industry, Canada had a number of small companies. The first mass produced Canadian automobile was made by the Le Roy Manufacturing Co., in 1899. Le Roy was out of business by 1907.

Henry Ford moved into Canada in 1904 shortly after setting up in Detroit. The Ford Motor Company of Canada was established in 1904 just across the Detroit River in Walkerville. The company had taken over the Walkerville Wagon Works. Walkerville was a small town that has been absorbed by the City of Windsor, just to the south of Detroit.

Ford wanted access to Canada but also Great Britain and the Empire for the sale of his cars and this could be accomplished with a company in Canada. A Canadian named Gordon McGregor convinced a group of investors to invest in Henry Ford's Company. With that the Ford Motor Company of Canada got hold of all Ford patents and most importantly the right to sell Ford cars to the British Empire. Many of the investors were Americans and that included Henry Ford who owned 13% of the new Canadian company.

The Ford Motor Company of Canada proceeded to operate subsidiaries in Australia, New Zealand, India and Southern Africa.

Canada actually placed tariffs on US built cars to protect the Canadian companies involved in the industry. But in 1965, the US and Canadian governments signed the Auto Pact which gave US companies access to the Canadian market with the proviso that jobs would be created. Since that time the auto industry has become a fully integrated North American industry with parts and fully assembled autos made in both countries and in Mexico too.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/23/2022 2:50:01 PM
Quote:
Hi George,

Great responses on 3 of the events! Since you are of Scottish decent have you traced it back to a certain Clan??


Hi Dave,

Yes I believe that I know my clan. It is Clan Gordon. Beyond that I do not know too much of the history of my Scottish ancestors. I find it difficult enough to keep up with Canadian and North American history.

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/23/2022 8:24:51 PM
George, much as I hate to say it, I don’t think we should raise the Jan 6 Committee hearings. I hope MD is not suggesting such a topic be raised; I doubt we could get two posts written before we would see a re-infestation of the toxic commentary that almost engulfed us a short time ago.

MD, did you have any specific occurrence or procedure in mind? I believe, e.g., that Volodymyr Zelenskyy’ government has raised issues of treason in the months before the war and since the battles began. I believe charges of treason may laid against Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, and perhaps against Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak and Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi, but I honestly can’t remember the exact terms of the charges.

Cheers,
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/24/2022 1:37:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Hi George,

Great responses on 3 of the events! Since you are of Scottish decent have you traced it back to a certain Clan??


Hi Dave,

Yes I believe that I know my clan. It is Clan Gordon. Beyond that I do not know too much of the history of my Scottish ancestors. I find it difficult enough to keep up with Canadian and North American history.

George



Hi George,

I guess some sites like Ancestry. Com, for a fee will do a DNA sampling of your true percentages on your background descent's nationalities?? My daughter had one done & it came out nothing like we told her that her background was??

go figure??

MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/24/2022 4:45:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi George,

Great responses on 3 of the events! Since you are of Scottish decent have you traced it back to a certain Clan??


Hi Dave,

Yes I believe that I know my clan. It is Clan Gordon. Beyond that I do not know too much of the history of my Scottish ancestors. I find it difficult enough to keep up with Canadian and North American history.

George



Hi George,

I guess some sites like Ancestry. Com, for a fee will do a DNA sampling of your true percentages on your background descent's nationalities?? My daughter had one done & it came out nothing like we told her that her background was??

go figure??

MD


My son took a DNA test and confirmed that he/we may trace our DNA back to Scotland and northern Europe. But the British Isles were invaded by a number of groups and so it is likely that we carry DNA from multiple sources.

However, I knew my grandparents and knew that they came from Edinburgh and Stirling and I listened to their stories of their brothers, sisters and aunts and uncles. DNA profiles and ethnicity may overlap but are not the same thing.

I have thought of taking a DNA test, just for fun. However, there are some in this world who would use this information to determine racial purity. That is not what these DNA companies intend but there is an element out there who would like to prove their racial superiority. Sad.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/24/2022 9:08:54 PM
On this day in 1567, Mary Queen of Scots was forced to abdicate in favour of her one-year-old son James (by Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley). He became James VI of Scotland.

Who was Mary? She was the only surviving child of James V of Scotland by Marie of Guise. James V was the son of James IV of Scotland by Margaret of England. Margaret was a sister of Henry VIII of England. Thus, there was a potential claim to the throne of England, which Mary was at least putatively keeping open should Elizabeth I die without issue.

Instead, she ran afoul of the Scottish nobility when her husband, Lord Darnley, died in mysterious circumstances in 1567 and she married the main suspect in his murder, the Earl of Bothwell, within the year. Both she and the Earl of Bothwell (who was acquitted of complicity in Darnley’s death) were imprisoned, and Mary was forced to abdicate.

A year later, Mary escaped from her prison on Loch Leven and gathered an army to support her in her claim to the Scottish throne. This attempt failed, and she sought haven in England.

This created problems, because Mary Queen of Scots was Catholic in a still shakily Church of England country. She became a threat to both Elizabeth I and to the C of E, and so was placed under house arrest. When, in 1586, a plot against Elizabeth was discovered, Mary was found to be complicit in the plot and was sentenced to death by beheading. The sentence was carried out on 8 Feb 1587. Mary was 44.

Her son, James VI of Scotland, would become Elizabeth’s heir; on her death he would retain his position of James VI of Scotland, but would also become James I of England, the first of the Stuart dynasty of rulers.

Just in case anyone is looking for a road map through a tumultuous century and more of British history.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 9:17:05 AM
Hey guys,

Well it's Christmas in July, do you like or dislike that term??

Anyway 7-25 in history,

1814 the US invades Canada, near Niagara Falls, can you imagine no Canadian Falls!?? I always like to stop at Tim Horton's at the edge, & grab a coffee, & get this a "butter tart donut"! ? Go Canadian Falls, eh!!? What happened? What say you??

1868 Wyoming becomes a territory! Today does it have to much political clout, considering it's mostly unpopulated?

1898 The US invades Puerto Rico!? This can't be the US would never attack a smaller state? Then today in 1952 they become a US territory? Does PR today, want to become a US state in these times?? Comments??

1965 Bob Dylan switches to an electric guitar! Do you approve?? Anyone on how influential BD was to rock!??

2,000 A Concord Jet crashes outside of Paris killing all!? Was this plane type flawed & unsafe!?? Comments?

Any other new topics??

Stay safe,
MD

BTW Brian, good synopsis on Mary Queen of Scots. Since George, & I were discussing Scottish Heritage, I guess from my daughters DNA test, I'm part Scot too??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 3:50:50 PM
Quote:
1868 Wyoming becomes a territory! Today does it have to much political clout, considering it's mostly unpopulated?


If indeed Wyoming does have too much clout it is because of the structure of the US government. Every state is permitted to have two senators, I believe. So that is equal representation. The House of Representatives has proportional representation and that makes it far more democratic as an institution.

But why did the founders determine that in a bicameral congress that one of the houses would be a place for states to discuss issues on an equal basis? Was it because the founders were part of the wealthy elite who felt that it would be necessary to place constraints on the will of the House of Representatives whose members could be comprised of lower class citizens. So was it necessary to view the Senate as a place of sober second thought?

I wonder whether the founders were concerned that they would not receive support for a union from states with small populations if they felt that they would be dominated by the larger states.

It strikes me that there are a number of states with small populations who may thwart the will of the majority even though their total population is nowhere near that of the two or three largest states combined. California has over 60 times the population of Wyoming and yet the two senators from Wyoming could effectively thwart the will of the people of California and other large states, especially in a 50/50 Senate.

The problem is exacerbated by effectively, a two party system. I had to check some data but the 50 Senators on the Democratic side represent nearly 42 million more people than do the 50 Senators on the Republican side. And the Republicans do better in the smaller population states while the Democrats do better in the larger population states.

As I watch events unfold in the US Congress it seems that legislation, effective and meaningful legislation (read progressive if you like), must be watered down into some sort of mush otherwise it doesn't have much hope in passing in the Senate.

Cheers,

George
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 6:36:50 PM
BrianG,

As someone who loves history trivia ( especially about food), it was Mary Queen of Scots who introduced from France, originally from Spain, a cure for "sea sickness" ( mar malade ) made from oranges. It became very popular.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 7:37:47 PM
Trevor, delightful little bit of trivia! Thank you so much! I have a number of foodie friends with whom I’ll share that morsel.

Can you tell me if, when one buys marmalade, the distinctions between Scottish and English marmalades are more than a mere national distinction? Different ingredients; different ratios; different levels of sweetness? This may just be a nice way of asking whether Scots have tried to remain as proprietorial about their spreads as they are about their whiskeys (deliberate spelling).

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 8:42:17 PM
Quote:
1814 the US invades Canada, near Niagara Falls, can you imagine no Canadian Falls!?? I always like to stop at Tim Horton's at the edge, & grab a coffee, & get this a "butter tart donut"! ? Go Canadian Falls, eh!!? What happened? What say you??


The US invaded British North America once again on July 3/4, 1814. They had tried before and had been forced to leave.

But this time they invaded with 3500-5000 men (I have seen various estimates) under Major General Jacob Brown. They actually crossed the Niagara River well above the falls and immediately seized Fort Erie which guarded the entrance to the river from Lake Erie. Brown was supposed to advance up the Niagara Peninsula to Lake Ontario where his army would meet the US navy squadron on Lake Ontario. From there they could attack British forces at Burlington Bay at the west end of Lake Ontario and then attack York (AGAIN) and Kingston, where the British naval squadron was based.

On July 5, 1814, Brown's force, all dressed in grey, met the British forces under Major-General Phineas Riall at Chippawa creek. They were in grey because the army had been unable to find suitably coloured uniforms in good time. I believe that cadets at West Point wear grey today to honour these men. Thanks to the efforts of Winfield Scott, the US army was a far more professional force than it had been in 1812 and 1813.

This is a map of the two major battles on the Niagara Peninsula in 1814, Chippawa and Lundy's Lane



The Americans were headed for Lake Ontario and specifically Burlington Heights. British General Riall moved to meet them and did so at Chippawa. Riall was outmanned but committed to battle and so did the Americans. It was a European style of battle and while it only cost both sides about 300 men killed and wounded, it did establish that the Americans could fight well and they won this battle. Riall was forced to retreat and he went all the way back to Fort George on Lake Ontario.

The Americans moved up to Queenston Heights where they had been defeated in 1812 during their first invasion of the Niagara Peninsula. Maj.-Gen. Brown was waiting for the USN Commodore Chauncey to sail from his base at Sacket's Harbor to engage the British from Lake Ontario. He was supposed to bring supplies as well. Even though the US had a more professional army, co-ordination between the navy and the army was not strong and Chauncey was adamant that he would not be a toady or an adjunct to the army. Chauncey decided that he would not participate.

Of course Chauncey, was outgunned by the British naval squadron on Lake Ontario at this stage of the war and he was waiting for a larger ship to be launched. The two navies never did have a show-down on the lake. But the upshot was that Chauncey did not support the July attacks by the army on the Niagara Peninsula.

Maj. Gen. Brown decided after a two week wait that he did not have the strength to meet the British again and he retreated to Chippawa.

Meanwhile the British had sent a brigade to the other side of the Niagara River and had attacked Lewiston, NY and Fort Schlosser. This alarmed Brown as his lines of communication would have been cut by the loss of these two places.

The overall British commander Gordon Drummond arrived with more troops and First Nations warriors and Drummond followed Brown's retreat. Concerned about the British action at Fort Schlosser, Brown ordered Winfield Scott to advance and engage the enemy.

This set the stage for the bloodiest battle of the War of 1812, the Battle of Lundy's Lane which began about 6 PM on July 25, 1814.

This is the wrong place to describe this battle but it continued in the dark and past midnight with multiple attacks and counter attacks. British General Riall was wounded and his stretcher bearers got confused and carried him to the American side where he was made POW.

British commander Gordon Drummond was wounded in the neck.

This was a battle that was fought at close quarters and desperately. The bayonet was employed liberally and so close were the lines of men that when a volley of musket fire was unleashed, the enemy could see the faces and eyes of their opponents as the powder flashed in the middle of the night.

American General Winfield Scott was severely wounded and his shoulder was shattered. Gen. Brown was so severely wounded that he instructed Brig. Ripley to take charge and to withdraw. The Americans left the field but the British were so beaten up and weary that they could not pursue. The Americans were not going to be resupplied and so they headed all the way back to Fort Erie on Lake Erie.

British Gen. Drummond would later write, "The enemy abandoned his camp, threw the greater part of his baggage, camp equipages and provisions into the rapids and having set fire to Streets Mills and destroyed the bridge at Chippawa, continued his retreat in great disorder towards Fort Erie."

Drummond was inaccurate as the Americans, well beaten up themselves, still retreated in good order.

Casualties:

Britain reported 84 killed; 559 wounded; 235 missing. No mention of FN losses

The US reported 171 killed; 572 wounded; 117 missing.

Tactically, this battle was a draw though some historians contend that the Americans fought a superior battle. Strategically, this one goes to the British because they stopped the American advance up the Niagara Peninsula.

This video describes the commemorations of the 100th anniversary of the battle that took place at Drummond Cemetery which was the actual site of the battle. This took place on July 25, 1914 and both sides were present at Lundy's Lane and both spoke of the 100 years of peace that had followed the War of 1812. Ironically, the Canadians would soon be at war again, declaring war on Aug. 4 as WWI began.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/25/2022 9:03:52 PM
MD notes: “1965 Bob Dylan switches to an electric guitar! Do you approve?? Anyone on how influential BD was to rock!?” 

I am mainly a jazz lover, but there are some few exceptions to that rather tight personal music focus. I greatly admire Leonard Cohen’s incredible lyrical complexity; I’m entranced by the vocal purity of Karin Alyson; I’m in awe of the range and versatility of Bob Dylan as writer, musician and even vocalist. And I have no idea of how to answer your question.

To be honest, I don’t know what you mean by “rock”. More, I don’t know if Dylan’s decision to incorporate “electric” meant as much as it seemed to at the time.

IIRC, Dylan’s songs took root long before he did, through folks like Peter, Paul and Mary and Joan Baez and even Pete Seeger. There was, at the time (running from about 1957 to 1963), an odd kind of “folk” culture growing in North American music, initiated perhaps the Kingston Trio (who sang a number of ACW ballads, together with some social satire [“The MTA“]) and expanding to include some black work songs and gospel, Caribbean calypso, and  increasingly, as folk music festivals proliferated, more work songs of the ‘thirties (Woody Guthrie, Cisco Houston, Leadbelly). IMHO, this died the day JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald.

I’m not sure when Dylan’s first album was released. I think it was early 1963. It was, for the most part, an album of traditonal song covers which introduced Dylan’s signature sound at the time. But IMHO – going by memory –  even then Dylan was carving out his niche. “Hollis Brown” echoes centuries of “folk” inevitability, with a touch of brilliance in the guitar work; “House of the Rising Sun” takes blues (and work songs) to a new place, largely because of Dylan’s voice (though he probably “borrowed” the chording from someone else.

There were at least two acoustic albums, IIRC, before Dylan did electric. More, there was a nuclear threat (missile crisis), an assassination, and growing civil unrest. By this time, Dylan was an icon of folk and protest music (“A Hard Rain’s Gonna Fall” was the song of the Cuban Missile Crisis, IIRC).

The death of JFK was, for many, the death of “Camelot”. Domestic issues were getting ugly, and the folk movement wished to support equal rights. So when Dylan went “electric”, it was seen as an abandonment of the relevance of folk/protest music “for the cause”. Dylan was vilified. He was seen as a sell-out, a deserter.

Personally, I hope Dylan had no impact whatsoever on rock music (particularly some of the more egregious sub-sets). It would be hard to believe his skills didn’t affect later musicians to some extent, but I certainly can’t hear a single trace of Dylan’s influence in the inane crap offered by young pop divas, who seem to have sold the world on the idea that vocal range is more significant than a single meaningful phrase.

Cheers.
Brian G



----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
7/26/2022 11:19:06 AM
Quote:
Trevor, delightful little bit of trivia! Thank you so much! I have a number of foodie friends with whom I’ll share that morsel.


Can you tell me if, when one buys marmalade, the distinctions between Scottish and English marmalades are more than a mere national distinction? Different ingredients; different ratios; different levels of sweetness? This may just be a nice way of asking whether Scots have tried to remain as proprietorial about their spreads as they are about their whiskeys (deliberate spelling).


Cheers
Brian G

Sorry Brian, I can´t say. I haven´t bought english or scottish marmalade for decades. And since Brexit it isn´t even available. When I buy marmalade it is spanish. When I buy jam it is usually german, danish or turkish. I´ve found the best honey in the world is bulgarian.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6510
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/26/2022 5:12:57 PM
Quote:
BrianG,

As someone who loves history trivia ( especially about food), it was Mary Queen of Scots who introduced from France, originally from Spain, a cure for "sea sickness" ( mar malade ) made from oranges. It became very popular.

Trevor



Brilliant, Trevor, thanks.

Always wondered about the provenance of that word.

I’ll always think of that poor, beheaded Queen whenever I spread my toast.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
7/26/2022 7:44:56 PM
Wasn´t it Dylan´s contact with the Beatles that persuaded him to move over to electric instruments ?

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/27/2022 12:43:33 AM
Quote:
Wasn´t it Dylan´s contact with the Beatles that persuaded him to move over to electric instruments ?


Trevor, you may well be right. I am by no means a music critic or historian. I haven’t been a “pop” music fan since the early Elvis years; I moved to folk music with the rise of the Kingston Trio, and found that my interest expanded to English ballads and work songs. Dylan, for me, was a brilliant addition to that trend. To me, he went electric because his songs and his issues moved him beyond the range of acoustics to express his views.

Compare, e.g., “Hollis Brown” (recorded 7 Aug 1963) with “Highway 61 Revisited” (recorded in various sessions from June-Aug 1965; released 30 Aug 1965:

[Read More]

A bleak story. A solid ballad written (and sung) along pretty traditional lines, but reducing the final stanza to two simple lines of inevitability: “Somewhere in the distance/There’s seven new people born. …”

[Read More]

Dylan using outrageous sound techniques: this is electric gone insane, gone “carny”, almost turning the sacrifice of Isaac into parody. But the two songs deal to some extent with the same bleak choices humans must make.

It’s possible that John or Paul or even George offered Dylan a tip about electrifying. It just doesn’t ring true to my understanding of Dylan. What went on in this period? Dylan’s music from the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oct-Nov 1962) was getting darker; in April 63 he recorded “Masters of War”, a song as much of rejection as of protest; IIUC, it it still the only time Dylan wished death on anybody, and it reflects a darkness not found on his first album. But 1963 brought the death of JFK and the inauguration of LBJ. The assassinations of MLK and RFK came in the spring of 1964; the Gulf of Tonkin lie came in (I believe) August, and the election of LBJ to his first full term in November assured the escalation of the war in Vietnam. Pretty bleak times for everybody.

I’ve always sensed that songs like “Hollis Brown” and “Masters of War” depicted Dylan at an emotional nadir, and that his incorporation of electronic devices helped him write for a new, more fragmented, less self-satisfied society. Electrification gave his music an edginess for a tenser time; electronic distortion (as in Highway 61 Revisited) allowed him to add an element of the absurd to his arguments when only parody (almost, but not entirely, like Monty Python was doing visually) could capture the absurd lack of focus on traditional values in the US.

Whew! That turned into a soap box sermon I hadn’t planned. Sorry! But if I’ve gone this far, let me offer a song from the late 1950s that impacted my life. It’s about a mine collapse in Canada’s Nova Scotia province, written by the great Ewen MacColl, a British singer of work songs. He was married to Peggy Seeger, Pete Seeger’s sister, and his best known ballad was his wedding song to her: “The first time ever I saw your face.”

This song, known by many names, has Ewan and Peggy singing the song Ewan wrote. I hope someone will take the time to listen to a Canadian workers’ tragedy.
[Read More]

Now I’ve used up all my tokens for free rides.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/27/2022 8:53:34 AM
Brian,

Your off a little on your history facts, both Martin Luther King Jr. & Robert F. Kennedy were gunned down in 1968, not 1964. Not being to critical, I wish I had a dime for every date I've gotten wrong!?

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/27/2022 6:11:02 PM
Sorry about that, folks. MD, thanks for pointing it out. I knew they had both died in an election year, but  clearly missed the mark by four years.

I’m not entirely certain how substantially this impacts my argument that I see a link between the changes in Dylan’s music and events of the time, though it clearly removes two major traumatic events as drivers.

Cheers, 
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/28/2022 9:49:56 AM
Hey guys,

Checking today in history, feel free to comment on the following!? Anyone?

7-28, the following events, any others? All comments welcome!??

1794 the reign of terror ends in France! Why were the French so revolutionary!? Anyone??

1909 the Wright Brothers release their 1st war plane!? Any comments on it & WWI warplanes??

1953 the Korean War ends! Is it really finished?? Situation in Korea? Anyone??

1914 WWI begins!? What set it off really!? What say you??

Regards, & Comments??
MD

& A couple more for good measure!?

1759 Johan Sebastian Bach dies! Who was your favorite classical composer? Anyone??

1868 the 14th Amendment passes giving equal rights to all Americans! Do we sill have a lot to do to achieve this??
What's the problem?? What say you??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/28/2022 2:08:49 PM
Quote:
1794 the reign of terror ends in France! Why were the French so revolutionary!? Anyone??


MD, you guys gave them the idea.

The middle class and poor of Europe were demanding change and particularly to be rid of the vestiges of the feudal system.

Economic downturns made the middle class and poor, the bourgeoisie, more angry and anxious of change. They wanted more say in government.

As well, France was a centre of Enlightenment and its philosophers and philosophers from other countries encouraged the people to think about the economy and the social contract. And I believe that more people were educated in the 100 years before the French revolution than ever before and therefore able to understand and to think about the musings of the philosophers.

I do think that the participation in multiple wars had placed a great financial burden on the monarchy. Among those wars were the French and Indian Wars, and the American Revolution and so it was decided that it was time to tax the rich. And the wealthy nobility of France protested paying tax. The King was fearful of overtaxing the rich.

In 1789, the King did call for a meeting of the nobility, the clergy and the commoners (3 Estates) to discuss reforms but the nobility and the clergy were determined to maintain the status quo with respect to their relationship with the commoners, and refused to allow the commoners to participate in the new society fully. This increased the anger and resentment of the commoners. In its list of grievances the representatives of the commoners had asked for more representative government and the two other estates were loathe to surrender power.

When the meeting of the Estates-General broke down, the commoners met by themselves and agreed that civil unrest would be the order of the day. The government continued to meet as riots broke out in the streets.

And on July 14, 1789, the mobs stormed the Bastille as rumours circulated that the army was about to take control. Mobs also invaded the homes of government agents like tax collectors and looted. Members of the nobility began to flee the country.

By August, feudalism had been abolished and the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen was declared.

It took a few months before things turned ugly because the new constitution still gave the KIng, veto power.

In Aug. of 1792, the radical revolutionaries arrested the King and his family. A new parliament was established and it abolished the monarchy. The Reign of Terror had begun. Anyone suspected of being against the revolution could be charged and executed.

Louis XVI was convicted of treason and crimes against the state and in 1793, he was executed. Maire Antoinette was executed less than a year later.

Most revolutions seem to be violent. Revolutionaries in the 13 colonies and in France and in Russia all used violence to advance their agendas. And it seems that their are factions among the revolutionaries who cannot agree on the means to effect change so there is often infighting as one faction or the other attempts to assume control.

Off the top of my head and in modern times I can only think of the separation of Czechoslovakia into the two states of Czechia and Slovakia as a non-violent revolution. That was a peaceful transition called the Velvet Revolution and it occurred in 1989, two hundred years after the French Revolution. I don't suppose that it was really a rebellion as both sides agreed to the process of divorce from one another.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/29/2022 11:10:36 AM
Quote:
Hey guys,

Checking 7-28 in history, feel free to comment on the following!? Anyone?

7-28, the following events, any others? All comments welcome!??

1794 the reign of terror ends in France! Why were the French so revolutionary!? Thanks on the reply George! The US needed French help in our Revolution, but they didn't need ours!?? Comments?

1909 the Wright Brothers release their 1st war plane!? Any comments on it & WWI warplanes??

1953 the Korean War ends! Is it really finished?? Situation in Korea? Anyone??

1914 WWI begins!? What set it off really!? What say you??

Regards, & Comments??
MD

& A couple more for good measure!?

1759 Johan Sebastian Bach dies! Who was your favorite classical composer? Anyone??

1868 the 14th Amendment passes giving equal rights to all Americans! Do we sill have a lot to do to achieve this??
What's the problem?? What say you??


& 7-29 in history!?

1588 the Spanish Armada is off England! Without the big storm would The Spanish won?? Comments?

1981 Princess Di. marries Prince Charles! What say you about the Royal match?? Anyone?

1958 NASA is formed! Successful?? Or not? Anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/29/2022 3:17:54 PM
Quote:
1981 Princess Di. marries Prince Charles! What say you about the Royal match?? Anyone?


Unfortunately when a prince or princess marries, he or she doesn't necessarily have a final say in the matter of the selection of a bride or groom. The Royal family must approve of the selection and the prospective candidate will undoubtedly be vetted for skeletons.

Diana was considered to be from a family of sufficient noble stature that she would project the correct image. She may have dated but was not considered overly experienced. She could pass muster as a chaste woman. She was only a teenager.

But Charles it seems was not truly in love with this woman. Rather he was in love with his current consort, Camilla. And Camilla Shand was from a wealthy family but a family that was not considered to be of sufficient nobility to marry a prince. And she had also had many dating partners though nothing out of the ordinary but she would project the image of a woman with life experiences. That was grounds for disqualification by the royal family.

Charles was not ready to wed and even though he seemed to have affection for Camilla, he could not and would not ask her to marry him. So she got married to a man named Parker-Bowles.

When it was time to marry Charles had dated many women but he seemed to like Diana who was only 19 when she married him. He was 32 I believe. She fit the image and as it turns out, it was a poor decision to marry Charles whose heart was with Camilla. His extra-marital affair with her was the subject of tabloids for years.

Fast forward to the marriage of Charles' son, William, to the beautiful Kate Middleton who was a commoner though a fairly wealthy one. She projected a good image and while we may never know for sure, the couple seems to love each other. Perhaps the family learned a lesson from the Charles and Diana debacle.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/30/2022 10:54:00 AM
Hi George,

Thanks for the tabloid up take on Princes Di., & Prince Charles! I always thought Princess Diana was the classier of the 2!? Too bad the Paparazzi had to follow her at all costs!? Shows how much I follow this stuff, I didn't know to much about Camillia, & that creepy Charles!? How are they perceived by the Commonwealth!? Comments? Anyone??

Regards, & keep reporting!
MD

1921, BTW today 7-30 in history 2 Canadian scientists isolate insulin, thus saving thousands of diabetics!? Who were they & how are they viewed by their country??

1945, the ship that delivered the 2 Atomic bombs, the USS Indianapolis was sank by a Japanese Submarine, with it's secret mission it wasn't reported missing, so hundreds of sailors were eaten by sharks!? What say you about this terrifying event!? Who was to blame?
Anyone??

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/30/2022 12:11:13 PM
Quote:
1921, BTW today 7-30 in history 2 Canadian scientists isolate insulin, thus saving thousands of diabetics!? Who were they & how are they viewed by their country??


Banting and Best. Banting and Best. The names were driven into our brains as school kids because the discovery of insulin did indeed save thousands of lives across the world.



Dr. Frederick Banting was a surgeon and Dr. Charles Best was a medical student at the time. They did their research work at the University of Toronto. I should add that J.B. Collip was involved in the research and the research was supervised by Dr. Macleod.

Scientists across the world had been trying to isolate the secretions of the pancreas. In 1889 two German scientists had discovered that if you removed the pancreas from a dog, it immediately became diabetic. Another German scientists, Paul Langerhans had discovered specialized cells in the pancreas that secreted a substance into the body. They became known as the Islets of Langerhans.

But the problem had been to find a way to isolate the secretions from the pancreas. Without those secretions, patients had no way to metabolize carbohydrates and they became very ill. The treatment of choice was to starve the patient. That would keep the blood sugar level lower but the patient slowly starved to death.

As mentioned, Fred. Banting was a surgeon and not strictly a research scientist. He was giving a lecture on the function of the pancreas and began to muse about isolating the secretions. He wondered whether cutting off the means of egress from the pancreas by the secretions would lead to a build-up of those secretions within the pancreas.

He went to the University of Toronto and convinced Dr. Macleod to give him lab space and dogs to work with. He was also given a lab assistant who happened to be Charles Best. Apparently there was a coin flip to determine which graduate student would work with Banting. They started their research in May of 1921.

Banting and Macleod did win the Nobel prize for medicine as Dr. Macleod was involved in teaching them how to do effective research and how to prepare the extract of secretions from the dogs that they operated on. He taught them how to inject properly the refined secretions into other dogs who had been made diabetic.

By the summer time they had injected dogs whose pancreas had been removed with the secretion that they had called "isletin" and were excited to see that those diabetic dogs had an immediate reduction in blood sugar levels.

Not being biochemists or researchers, Banting had a biochemist added to the team. This was James Collip who devised a method to extract isletin more consistently and effectively and importantly, as a less toxic extract Other researchers at U of T. determined how to extract in larger quantities.

In 1922, human trials began. They injected a 13 year old boy named Leonard Thompson who was on his death bed. It took two trials and the boy made spectacular progress. His blood sugar dropped and it was Collip's extraction process that removed toxins from the extracts that was one of the keys to success

Other test subjects received the extract which was now called insulin. There was an extensive team of scientists behind this discovery and unfortunately when it was time to award the Nobel prize, there was some jealousy and anger among members of the team.

Initially, the Nobel people recognized Banting and Macleod. Banting didn't like that and decided to split his money with Charles Best. Macleod then decided to split his with Collip. Banting conceded that others on the team had been helpful and necessary but it was he and Best who had discovered the insulin.

The discovery of insulin is one of the most important scientific discoveries that lead to thousands of people world wide being able to manage a disease that could have killed them.

Note that in 1923, US patents on the production of insulin were issued to Banting, Best and Collip. They sold those patents to the University of Toronto for one dollar each. They had decided that they did not want to profit from their efforts and wanted to be sure that everyone would be able to afford insulin who needed it.

I am not sure why low cost insulin is not the norm especially in the US but I believe that the original patents expired not long ago and the newer and more complex insulins are "owned" by someone else.

We don't see that type of generosity as much today in the world of corporate scientific discovery. Joseph Salk, the discoverer of the polio vaccine is another who comes to mind.

[Read More]

Note: most of this is a synopsis of an article from the Canadian Encyclopaedia with additions from my memory bank.

Cheers,

George









Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/30/2022 9:47:45 PM
Quote:
Hi George,

Thanks for the lesson on the development of insulin by those Canadians!

1921, BTW today 7-30 i hey MHO'ers lets get more ivolved!??

1945, the ship that delivered the 2 Atomic bombs, the USS Indianapolis was sank by a Japanese Submarine, with it's secret mission it wasn't reported missing, so hundreds of sailors were eaten by sharks!? What say you about this terrifying event!? Who was to blame?
Anyone??



& for the last day in July the following occurred! Any new topics??

1667 the Dutch give up New Amsterdam to the English! New York! Why couldn't the Dutch compete for colonies like other nations!? Anyone??

1965 JK Rowling's is born this author is now a billionaire! Is her works on Harry Potter that good!? Comments?

2006 Fidel Castro turns over the Cuban Government to his brother! Have things in Cuba changed at all!? Anyone?

1971 NASA 1st uses the Lunar Rover! Has space travel actually benefited the human race?? What say you!? Best new technology really useful???

A penny for your thoughts!
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/31/2022 7:50:40 AM
Quote:
1667 the Dutch give up New Amsterdam to the English! New York! Why couldn't the Dutch compete for colonies like other nations!? Anyone??


But they did compete if you like and colonized countries all over the world but especially in Africa. They were especially powerful in the late 1600's but we know that Dutch colonies were attacked and seized in the Pacific as late as 1941, by the Japanese. (see Dutch East Indies)

Netherlands was a significant economic rival of Great Britain and sometimes that lead to armed conflict. The Netherlands was an economic powerhouse.

As for New Amsterdam and Manhattan Island, the Netherlands ceded it to GB during the second Anglo-Dutch War. But it was a bloodless seizure. The RN sailed into New Amsterdam harbour and demanded a surrender and got it in 1664. In 1673, they took it back but a 1674 treaty returned it to the British.

Will someone tell me how influential the Dutch were in the time that they had colonized New Netherlands? I am thinking about architecture and language and customs in the New York City area.


Note that the Netherlands also attempted to interfere in the American Revolution and the British declared war against them in 1780. After the Dutch wars, Netherlands and GB had become allies so the actions of the Dutch during the American Revolution were somewhat of a betrayal. Netherlands was supposed to have been neutral and was profiting from sales during the revolution.

But it was selling arms to the American rebels and also to France so Britain went to war against them and seized their Caribbean colonies. The Dutch banks also extended loans to the rebels. The British war against the Netherlands lasted longer than the war against the rebels in the 13 colonies. The Netherlands war ended in 1784.

The Dutch Empire was in decline and declined even more after the American Revolution. I don't think that they had the military power including a large enough navy to maintain control of their colonies.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/31/2022 7:54:24 AM
Quote:
2006 Fidel Castro turns over the Cuban Government to his brother! Have things in Cuba changed at all!? Anyone?


Well they are still there despite a decades long attempt by the US to exact retribution from the Cubans for having the temerity to toss a US backed dictator and to take control of their own future.

I cannot imagine that Cuba is a threat to the US and it is possible to deal with the Cubans to establish compensation for those people who saw their assets forfeited to the Cuban state after the revolution.

It is time to end the embargo and then to assist the Cubans to improve their economic and hopefully their political situation.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/31/2022 6:16:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
1667 the Dutch give up New Amsterdam to the English! New York! Why couldn't the Dutch compete for colonies like other nations!? Anyone??


But they did compete if you like and colonized countries all over the world but especially in Africa. They were especially powerful in the late 1600's but we know that Dutch colonies were attacked and seized in the Pacific as late as 1941, by the Japanese. (see Dutch East Indies)

Netherlands was a significant economic rival of Great Britain and sometimes that lead to armed conflict. The Netherlands was an economic powerhouse.

As for New Amsterdam and Manhattan Island, the Netherlands ceded it to GB during the second Anglo-Dutch War. But it was a bloodless seizure. The RN sailed into New Amsterdam harbour and demanded a surrender and got it in 1664. In 1673, they took it back but a 1674 treaty returned it to the British.

Will someone tell me how influential the Dutch were in the time that they had colonized New Netherlands? I am thinking about architecture and language and customs in the New York City area.


Note that the Netherlands also attempted to interfere in the American Revolution and the British declared war against them in 1780. After the Dutch wars, Netherlands and GB had become allies so the actions of the Dutch during the American Revolution were somewhat of a betrayal. Netherlands was supposed to have been neutral and was profiting from sales during the revolution.

But it was selling arms to the American rebels and also to France so Britain went to war against them and seized their Caribbean colonies. The Dutch banks also extended loans to the rebels. The British war against the Netherlands lasted longer than the war against the rebels in the 13 colonies. The Netherlands war ended in 1784.

The Dutch Empire was in decline and declined even more after the American Revolution. I don't think that they had the military power including a large enough navy to maintain control of their colonies.

Cheers,

George


George,

Your right! Actually the Dutch forces really took it to the British in some of the battles of the Boer Wars!?

MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/31/2022 8:15:41 PM
Quote:
George,

Your right! Actually the Dutch forces really took it to the British in some of the battles of the Boer Wars!?

MD


Not really the Dutch. The Boers were descendants of Dutch and they were not people with military training. They were farmers and they spoke Afrikaans which was a mix of Dutch, indigenous language and a few other influences that I don't recall.

If I recall correctly the Cape Colony and the Transvaal, with many Afrikaans people, were actually under British rule by the time of the Boer War.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
8/1/2022 8:58:14 AM
So George,

The Boers were kind of like American Colonists, they were to the Dutch, as the Colonists were to the British!? & they both fought the Red Coats!?

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
8/1/2022 10:34:13 AM
Quote:
So George,

The Boers were kind of like American Colonists, they were to the Dutch, as the Colonists were to the British!? & they both fought the Red Coats!?

Regards,
MD



I suppose that that is one parallel but I think that the political and economic conditions that precipitated conflict were different.

Both Britain and the Netherlands had subjugated areas of Africa but the Boers living in Cape Colony and the Transvaal were self governing. I had said that they were under British rule but Britain had direct control of two other colonies in southern Africa.

But gold and diamonds motivated Britain to bring more colonists to southern Africa and they annexed the Boer Republic in 1877. The Boers rebelled and won back their republic in 1881.

So Britons continued to move to southern Africa but the Boers refused to grant any political status to anyone that wasn't Boer. They called the newcomers to the territory "uitlanders". And they did not want the indigenous people to have any rights at all.

EDIT: Note that Britain increased its influence in Boer territories by encouraging immigration. And when there were sufficient numbers of Britons (especially Scots) living in southern Africa, Britain offered military protection and later, intervention. I note a similar parallel to the tactics employed by the US when it was in expansion mode. Immigration to territories was encouraged and then supported. We need only look to Texas, Florida and Oregon to see that the tactic was employed well and successfully.

That was part of the motivation to go to war for the British but gold and diamonds were an important incentive as well. The world economy was on the gold standard and so gold mines in the Transvaal were something that the British wished to control.

Britain began to expand its military presence and the Boers told them to stop. They did not and war ensued.

So the reasons for war were somewhat different than that of the 13 colonists who were also of the same ethnicity as the people of Great Britain. They were in rebellion against their sovereign.

The Boers were of a completely different ethnicity and were not British subjects.

There is one obvious parallel. The indigenous people of southern Africa and of North America were the losers in this European expansion.



Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
8/2/2022 12:39:34 AM
On 1 Aug 1714, Anne – Queen of England, Scotland and Ireland – died without issue. This brought to an end the House of Stuart’s hold on the monarchy, which had begun with the accession of James 1 (James VI of Scotland) in 1603.

The Stuart period was tempestuous but culturally enriching. In 111 years, there were six monarchs, a civil war, the beheading of a king, an eleven-year interregnum under Oliver Cromwell, the collapse of Presbyterian control, a reinstatement of Kingship and all it entailed, and a “Glorious” revolution. We gained the King James Bible, the poetry of John Donne and the Metaphysical poets, and the thunderous prose and exalted poetry of John Milton.

Anne, whose death falls on this day, was the second daughter of the Duke of York, younger brother of Charles II, who would become – for a brief three years – James II but would be driven from the throne for his Catholicism. They were the only two offspring (of eight) to reach adulthood.

The elder daughter, Mary, was raised Protestant and married William of Orange in the Netherlands. William III of Orange invaded England (by request), driving James II (yes, his wife’s father) into exile and bringing William and Mary to the throne. Officially, they were William III and II and Mary II. Their marriage provided no children reaching adulthood, and when they died the only Stuart left was Anne, the younger daughter now married to Prince George of Denmark.

Anne had all the makings of a good Queen. But she had health issues which led to increasing obecity, As well, she was unlucky in bearing children; after 17 pregnancies, she had no living child at her death.

Her death in 1714 would lead to the invitation from Parliament to George of Hanover to become King of England. IIUC, he spoke no English and had no interest in living in England. He had one positive character, however. He was Protestant.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6510
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
8/2/2022 8:39:11 AM
Brian,

It’s a singular fact of the national narrative that all three Kings of England who were named William died after falling from a horse !

I like your post : as you say, a tempestuous era of conflict and change, with cultural impact to match.

Recently a film about Queen Anne was doing the rounds, with Olivia Coleman in the starring role.

It was quite a lurid depiction, with some emphasis on the squalor and licentiousness of the times.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
8/2/2022 8:28:24 PM
Hmm, Phil … and the Duke of Cambridge plays polo!

I’ve heard of the film about the court of Anne. The social media commentary on implications of rampant lesbian inference aside, I’ve heard it is basically a paean of the female fashion for sensual display. In all honesty, I thought that the influence of Charles II and his brother James II (two truly licentious courts) was dying by Anne’s time. But Pope’s “Rape of the Lock” first appeared in 1712, and in fuller form in 1714. Clearly, a certain level of sexually outrageous behaviour existed despite social denial. Pope was a magnificent satirist; his mock-epic “Rape of the Lock” was mocking the requirement of appearance in the reign of Anne compare to the reality of conduct.

Another royal oddity: a monarch’s touch was thought to cure what was called “The King’s/Queen’s Evil”, (now described as Scrofula). Samuel Johnson, in 1711 or 1712, was touched for the “Evil” by Anne. Without success.

Cheers,
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
8/3/2022 4:08:31 AM
Quote:
Brian,

It’s a singular fact of the national narrative that all three Kings of England who were named William died after falling from a horse !


Regards, Phil


And the two named Charles didn´t have a good time.

Trevor

Edit: Brian, love these posts about Kings and Queens.
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
8/3/2022 8:30:23 AM
I agree Trevor,

Brian should be teaching a College course on British Monarchy! Can you say Professor Grafton!?

8-3, in today's historical events, include, Comments & new posts welcome!?

1492, Columbus sailed the Ocean Blue! On this day he set sail! Why is he gone from a children's hero to a villain??

1583, Sir Humprey Gilbert landed in St Johns Newfoundland, & claimed it for England!? I guess he just ignored the 1st Nations who already were there!? Also I believe the Vikings were the 1st Europeans there!? What say you??

1914 Germany declares war on France during WWI. The French have a bad location located right at the crossroads of Western Europe!? At least they fight for the good guys!? Comments??

1921 8 Chicago White Sox are banned for life for throwing the 1919 World Series!? what say you to The Black Sox scandal?? Anyone??

1936 Jessie Owens, shows Hitler at the Berlin games that Aryans may not be so superior!? What say you about the 1936 Olympics, & Jessie Owens!? Anyone??

1940 Lithuania becomes part of the Soviet Union! Were they coerced!? How secure as A country are they now??

1958 the Atomic submarine Nautilous goes under the North Pole! Did they have Canada's & other northern countries permission? Comments, anyone?

1992 Clint Eastwood, wins Academy Award for the western Unforgiven! What's you favorite Eastwood quote or movie!? What say you??

Go ahead make my day!
MD

Also George, great post on why the British wanted South Africa!? Resources like gold & diamonds could drive their motivation!?? Who exployted this area the most?? Comments?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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