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George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 1:36:18 PM
Quote:
1997 French Canadian General Dollard Menard passes away! Anyone know about this guy??


War hero. Lt. with the Royal 22nd (The Vandoos) in 1936. Sent by Canadian Army to India to work with British forces there.

By 1942 he was a Lt. Col. with another Québec regiment, Les Fusiliers de Montréal. This regiment, if my memory is correct, was the reserve unit waiting offshore during the debacle that was Dieppe, Aug. 19, 1942.

When the commander of the operation determined to commit his reserves, Lt. Col. Ménard was wounded as he landed. He continued to command and was wounded a total of five times. He was using wireless telegraphy while under fire by MG and mortar and artillery to marshal his forces and to keep them alive. He dragged his wounded body to an elevated area to scout for a more favourable position and he was wounded once again.

His men carried him to a barge upon the evacuation signal and he continued to command from there. He was directing the defence against airplane attack and telling his men how to protect themselves.

As it turns out, Lt. Col. Ménard was the only commanding officer of all of those who had landed at Dieppe to return to Britain. The rest were either killed or captured.

Ménard went home to Canada where he was used to encourage enlistment in Québec. There was a recruitment poster with Ménard featured on it to appeal to the men to enlist.

The head lines mean, "What it takes to win".


In 1943 he was part of the Canadian force involved in the Kiska operation.

By 1956 he was a Brig. Gen. in charge of 2nd Brigade of the army. He was a stickler for the use of French as the language of command in all of the French-Canadian regiments.

I don't know whether he was disenchanted in 1965 but he ended his army career then.


But he became more famous or infamous during the referendum to consider Québec's separation from Canada when he said in 1980 that Quebeckers should vote "Yes" for something called sovereignty-association. This was a term devised by the separatistes to confuse the voters.

But because of his stance, Ménard came into conflict with other former French-Canadian senior officers (former Chiefs of Staff) in the Canadian army who criticized him for his stance. Ménard sued both former Gen. Jean Allard and Gen. Jacques Dextrase for libel, claiming that they had maligned his character.

Ménard claimed that he had been ridiculed by the other two. Some of the comments by Dextrase indicate that he felt sorry for Ménard who was under some stress following a brain injury. Of note, the Yes side of the referendum decided not to use Ménard as a high profile supporter. I don't think that the old war horse was as mentally competent to have been of much use.

Pretty sad because we had a decorated war hero in Ménard in disagreement with other war heroes over the issue of Québec sovereignty. Jacques Dextrase was also a war hero with DSO and bar earned in NW Europe. He also commanded the Vandoos in Korea where he was acclaimed for the stubborn refusal of his Vandoos to quit when surrounded near Hill 355. Dextrase became Chief of the Defence Staff and later of the Canadian forces.

General Jean Allard was also a war hero and he also became Chief of the Defence Staff after the war. He commanded the Vandoos in Italy during WW2. In Korea he commanded the 25th Canadian Infantry Brigade. He was awarded a DSO and two bars for his WW2 efforts. Jean Allard, if anything, had more awards and recognition than Dextrase. Both had outstanding careers.

But the two men were not enamoured with Ménard's stance on separatism. The war between the three men was called, in the press, the Battle of the Generals.

In the end, the court case was settled out of court. That's what Quebec separatism does to this country. Clearly it is divisive and in this case pitted war heroes against one another.



Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 2:49:19 PM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-14, in history?
cheers,
MD

Hey guys,

Check out today in history, for example, see below events, also. Moving this to the new page!!

In 1129 the Knights Templar gains approval, what's with these guys? Are they the big deal history seems to make of them? What say you??

1799 Eli Whitney receives a government contract for10,000 muskets! Why Whitney? I never knew he had anything to do with these guns? Anyone know? He will invent the Cotton Gin which really leads to a lot more slaves in the South! Actually another cause of the Civil War!? What say you? Anyone??

1861 Fort Pickens in Pensacola, FL. falls into State hands, the Fort will remain held by the Union throughout the war even though the main land stays Confederate! Great history site, I've been there several times! Questions on how this fort was tough for the Tens to take? Anyone?

1864, Gen. PT Sherman begins his march to the sea, was he a terrorist or just a good general taking it to the South!? What say you??

1911, Roald Amundsen lands in Antarctica heading to the South Pole! Why did he succeed & Robert Falcon Scott fail!? Was it worth lives just to reach the pole 1st? Tragic!? Comments, anyone??

& 1997 French Canadian General Dollard Menard passes away! Anyone know about this guy??

What say you, about these things???
Regards,
MD


BTW Thanks George, & Brian for filling us in on BC history!!!


& George, thanks for the above post, I didn't know anything about General Menard, until your post!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 3:09:18 PM
Bad post.


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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 8:22:28 PM
George, thank you for that brief history. Canada is never kind to its old soldiers, and honours all regardless of rank with less than recognition or generosity. Menard seems to be a glaring example. He seems to have been highly respected by his troops, particularly during the Dieppe Raid. He was clearly of martial temperament, and I praise him (though I disagree with him) for his insistence on the use of French in the francophone regiments.

I’m also surprised at how many issue remain unanswered by an admittedly brief search. A few questions I couldn’t find comments on through that search:
1. Did Menard ever command English-speaking regiments. You point out his position as B-Gen of 2nd army, but I’m thinking hands-on command? And I’m wondering it his stance of French use for francophone regiments was a strong earlier in his career. The question is not just whether or not his stridency impacted his career to 1942, but whether it had an impact of his post-Dieppe career.
2. Do you know what his involvement in Kiska was? Do we know what the hell a francophone warrior like that was doing on the Wet Coast in the first place?

Please believe I am not attacking if I ask whether you are being disingenuous in saying, “I don't know whether he was disenchanted in 1965 but he ended his army career then.”? If nothing else, given the principles he held, I can see him saying he had served under a flag which included the Fleur-de-lis, but would not serve under a flag which did not recognize its country’s roots.

George, your understanding of and assessment of the Separatist movement are, I know, fare different than mine. And while I can’t fault your logic when you say: “That's what Quebec separatism does to this country. Clearly it is divisive and in this case pitted war heroes against one another.”, I think that anglo expectations of inclusion demeaned, debased and attempted to debase the francophone culture that was particularly rich and alive in PQ, was equally divisive. I also agree that to see this spill over into the military is disturbing. Since when did our military have the right to take sides in political debate?

Lots more that could be said about this extension from Ménard.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 9:23:55 PM
Hello Brian,

Question #1

I read your post with interest and I can only speculate that Ménard must have commanded or "worked with" English speaking troops when he was posted to India and worked in the infantry, tanks and cavalry. He was sent by Canada to gain experience. He participated in the Waziristan campaign. Ménard was a graduate of the Royal Military College in Kingston but I do not know whether RMC offered classes in the French language as it does today.

During WW1, the Canadian Corps did nothing to encourage participation by French-Canadians. Sam Hughes hated the French, and hated Catholics. He had given no thought to the fact that there were men at Valcartier for whom French was not only their primary language but their only language. Many of these volunteers actually headed home because they could not understand what was going on.

Ménard was posted initially to the Vandoos which was a French speaking regiment and later commanded Les Fusiliers de Montréal at Dieppe. He felt that the language of command within these units should be French when on parade or drilling. I really do not know whether the Canadian Army of WW2 ever experienced confusion or errors because the French-Canadian units worked in French among themselves. Their officers were bilingual as were many of the men by WW2.

His post WWII career appears to have been successful. According to wiki he became the CO of the East Sector of Québec from 1958 to 1962. After that he was posted to Army HQ in Ottawa where he worked until retirement in 1965. That would have been a 29 year military career and he was 52 years of age at retirement. I haven't read anything about his reasons for retiring and perhaps should not have speculated.


Question #2: Kiska

As we know, the attack on Kiska was undertaken by the US and by Canadian draftees, the Zombies. Canada had been receiving some pressure from the US even before the war to allow US planes to fly over to Alaska, something that Canada was reluctant to allow. Canada was also concerned that the Japanese could attack our Pacific coast and in discussions with the Americans, it was revealed that Canada could not count on the protection of the USN and that it was quite likely that in the event of war, the US would seek and perhaps demand air bases in BC.

And so there were broad national goals for Canada in the provision of troops for the defence of the Aleutians. The first was to improve relations with the US which had expressed concern about Canada's efforts on the west coast. Secondly, the government was desperate to boost the morale of the home troops, the Zombies and to change the national perception of them as shirkers. Thirdly, the government was trying to encourage the draftees to "go active" which would allow for their deployment to Europe. I'm not sure how sending them to fight would encourage that response but there you have it. And fourth, Canada was very concerned that by allowing the construction of the Alaska Highway that its sovereignty was in peril and despatching troops to the NW of North America would establish that we were there and ready to defend.

For some of the same reasons it was considered very important to include some French-Canadians in the Aleutian operations as this group of all of the reluctant volunteers, took the most heat from the rest of the country.

The operation in the Aleutians was called Greenlight and so Canada initially selected the Canadian Fusiliers, Winnipeg Grenadiers, and Rocky Mountain Rangers along with artillery and ancillary units to participate. Subsequent discussion led the high command to determine that it would be wise to include some French-Canadians in the operations so that the whole country was represented.

And so Le Régiment de Hull was added for relief purposes. LRH was the only francophone unit in Pacific command and they had been on coastal duty in BC since 1942. 80% spoke no English at all and a lack of bilingual instructors hampered their training. The were not rated very highly. But the US wasn't sure that they wanted an extra CDN battalion and had to be convinced.

Once accepted, the CDN army had to find suitable French-Canadian officers. The officers of LRH were rated as too old and too soft. The officer charged with bringing LRH up to snuff was told that he could request the transfer of any French-Canadian officer that he wanted. Lt. Col Dollard Ménard was selected and he came in and fired any officers that he did not deem fit to command and he declared that the language of command and instruction for LRH would be French.

Most of this I gleaned from an old article from Canadian Military History.

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Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2022 10:10:14 PM
Guys,

Speaking of Canadians in the Aluitians, What happened on August 15 1943 in the retaking of Kiska Island!???

How could this happen?
Who's to blame?

MD

To be fair, friendly fire incidents in WWII like this, were to numerous to count!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 9:10:13 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-15, in history?
cheers, & stay safe, & please comment!

For example in 1535 King Henry the VIII declares himself head of the Church of England, so much for the division of church & state! What was that all about??

1539 Elizabeth I crowned Queen of England! Where does she rate as far as successful Queens go?? Anyone?

1945 the Mahattan Project take their 1st pictures of Nuclear Implosion at Los Alamos, see the 1st read more above for the fascinating photo! What say you about how this will impact the world! Comments?

1970 Muammar Quad a for if proclaimed Premier of Lybia! Why did the West despise him!? What ultimately happened to him & his regime?? What say you??

1998 NASA announces John Glenn 76 will be the oldest Astronaut to fly in Space, what a life Glenn lead! Comments??

BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??

What say you? about these fascinating topics?
Regards,
MD

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 9:50:36 AM
Quote:
BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??


Dave, I had never assume that the post was critical of Canadians in particular. Were you assuming that all of the friendly fire incidents were committed by Canadians soldiers? I have always assumed that in the confusion men were shooting at air and could have been hitting men from their own regiment.

I mean, I do not know who killed whom. The invasion force was just over 34,000 strong and of those 5,300 were Canadians and the Canadians were all wearing US kit. I believe that 34 Americans and 4 Canadians lost their lives. Not all of the deaths were caused by rifle fire. Some stepped on Japanese mines. Others were killed by booby traps.

One Canadian was wounded by MG fire coming out of the fog. A CDN officer died when he stepped on a mine. Three other Canadians were killed by booby traps or ammunition accidents. I don't know where and how the Americans died.

There were no Japanese on the island. They had effected a remarkable escape when USN vessels in the area were preoccupied with radar blips that concerned them.

The US troops landed on Aug. 15, 1943 and the CDN 13 Mountain Brigade came ashore the next day.

Interestingly, the First Special Service Force commandos were also involved in this operation and it was the first group landed.

It was foggy when Operation Cottage began and allied soldiers were shooting into the fog at ghosts. They thought that they were being sniped at by Japanese. The sounds of battle in the fog made them nervous and unfortunately, men were killed by their own.

Note that all troops looked the same as the Canadians wore US uniforms including US helmets, over their Canadian battle dress.



This map shows where the various allied units landed. Note that the Devil's Brigade led all forces into Kiska at both landing sites. We can see that the bulk of the US forces landed well away from the Canadian forces.




Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 2:37:42 PM
Hi George,

I guess my problem with this happening is that the commanders of both invasion groups had the battle plans of each other! Also this is a modern war generally speaking, so communications had to be quite efficient. And as you say both groups had US uniforms on. So how could they open up on each other? It also would seem air reconisence would have told them the Japanese were gone? I wonder if any officer saw repercusions??

Any info on this?
Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 3:13:01 PM
Hi MD,

Operation Cottage was all one invasion group under US command. There were two major landing areas but I do not know whether the two groups came together at any time.

I understand that when the fog rolled in, it was impossible to see. And there was a lot of noise from artillery and MG and rifle fire. Men felt as though they were being sniped at. I don't believe that they fired at men that they could see but at ghosts in the fog.

As well, some men stepped on mines or tripped booby traps left by the Japanese. This would add to the tension and the noise of battle. These men had been told that they were in for a tough fight. I suppose that they felt that every explosion was evidence of Japanese presence.


Prior to this invasion, the US bombed the hell out of Kiska when the Japanese were present. But I do not know how the successful evacuation of over 5,000 Japanese soldiers took place without the allies finding out. Apparently, the Japanese evacuation fleet of two cruisers and six destroyers slipped in, in the fog, and removed all the men and they did so in less than an hour. This was on July 28.

The CDN and US forces were in preparation for the invasion at that time. That happened a little over two weeks later and no-one noticed that the Japanese were gone. Certainly, it was embarrassing.

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The event was best summed up by the army's commanding general in Alaska, Simon B. Buckner, who said, "To attract maximum attention, it's hard to find anything more effective than a great big, juicy, expensive mistake.”


The Kiska battle site is well preserved because there are no people there. The US National Parks Service has preserved evidence of the Japanese occupation and it was quite extensive including sod covered accommodation and gun emplacements. US and CDN forces stayed for a few months to discourage the Japanese from coming and there is evidence of their short time there.

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Cheers,

George

EDIT: The following article describes the brilliant and stealthy evacuation by the Japanese navy. The fleet had a bit of luck but it did evade USN blockade vessels and did navigate through the fog to find their way to Kiska. The luck came when USN vessels sailed away in response to radar blips. Good fortune smiled on the Japanese, I guess.

And the allied air forces continued to bomb the vacated island right up until the US/CDN invasion. Perhaps the weather was so bad that the air crew could not detect any activity on Kiska.

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Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 7:39:40 PM
On this day in 1759 the British Museum – established by Act of Parliament in 1753 – opened to the public. It became one of the great museums of the world, and remains so to this day. Its collections are extensive and increasingly well presented. One of the original copies of Magna Carta is there; so are the Elgin Marbles (now called the Parthenon Marbles, IIRC) and the Rosetta Stone. It is a place which I recommend to anyone interested in the relics of history.

Is it suitable to be include in this forum? I dunno. I think so, if only because it set a precedent followed by nearly every western country. Historically – and here I’m speculating to some extent – I assume museums grew out of the new sciences of the 1600s, which flourished with the return to the throne of Charles II in 1660. Think of the Royal Society, established by Charles. Think of the astronomical observations of Halley and Newton. Or of another branch of science, antiquities, which involved the collection of arcana from the past, sometimes simply by great expenditure and sometimes by personal travel and exertion.

The creation of the British Museum by parliamentary act confirmed the value and need for a repository for artifacts. More, it suggested this was sufficiently important that such artifacts fall under the protection of the Crown. The BM established a pattern which would radiate into other fields across Britain but in equal measure across the nations of the western world. National libraries; national galleries; national natural history museums; national war museum; the list can go on. But the spirit, I believe, is one that defines western culture and what has been western educational and cultural values.

I didn’t raise the BM without all this in mind. It is a great museum, but it is of historical significance because it established many standards by which subsequent museums – national or private – catalogue, control and display their holdings.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2022 8:34:19 PM
On this day in 1951, Ilse Koch, wife of the Commander of Buchenwald, Karl Koch, was sentenced to life in prison for “crimes against humanity” involving her treatment of prisoners held in Buchenwald. In truth, she was brought to trial because of sadistic tendencies, which she appeared to share with her husband. Her husband, in fact, was arrested by his own SS superiors for “exceeding authority” in treatment of prisoners, and was executed in 1944. They must have been quite a couple!
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I don’t know why, but right now I’m feeling horribly cynical about all this. Here are two people with a sexual penchant most folks reject, and some think inhuman. They are assigned a job most folks would reject, and some would think inhuman. They took advantage of both their position(s?) of authority (did she have any official status at Buchenwald, or was she just “the colonels wife”?) over their inmates.

In the case of Karl, his excesses drove even the SS to arrest, try and execute him. That was in 1944. I’m assuming the US forces captured Ilse Koch at a later date. Was she still associated with Buchenwald when that KZ was liberated, or did they go hunting for her? Dunno.

But in my current cynicism, I wonder whether she was condemned for her sexual deviation or for her attraction to decorative lampshades. In an amoral world, neither is verboten, but I would assume the sexual deviation would be more acceptable than causing death to attain the lampshades.But she was not apprehended by troops known for their amorality; they were part of DDE’s “Crusade in Europe”.

Nuff said. Stay safe.
Brian G

PS: IMHO, Ilse was never called the witch of anything. She was known as the “Bitch of Buchenwald”. d

B
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2022 10:28:34 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics, check out 1-16, in history!?
cheers,
MD

For example in 27 BC, Augustus Caesar in named ruler of Rome, by the Senate,.Anyone on Ancient Rome, & how this lead to the foundation.of it's history?

,1493 Columbus returns from his 1st trip from the New World, was he a friend to the natives?? What say you?

1581 English Parliament passes laws against Catholicism! Why did England hate Catholics??

1919 Prohibition is passed by Congress! How did it go over?? Comments?

1945 Hitler moves into his last ditch bunker in Berlin! What is the most likely story of what happened to him? Did he perish there, or escape!? What say you??

1960 Gordie Howe becomes the leading scorer in NHL history! Comments on what made Howe so good? Has anyone passed him in Scoring? ?

Any other new history?? Anyone?

.

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2022 11:28:54 AM
Quote:
1919 Prohibition is passed by Congress! How did it go over?? Comments?


Wonderfully well in Canada for a while. Better still for the French islands of St. Pierre et Miquelon off the shore of Newfoundland.

Liquor was transported across the line quite easily especially on the Great Lakes. The run from Windsor to Detroit was popular.

And for the French, they would transport French liquor from the two islands to bootlegger boats moored off the east coast of the US.

Here is an article that was published in 1920 in the Toronto Star Weekly. The title is "Canuck Whiskey Pouring into the United States".

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Some may be interested in the reporter working for the Star who wrote this piece. Ernest Hemingway was a reporter for the Toronto Star from 1920-24. By the age of 22, Hemingway was the Toronto Star's European correspondent.

Cheers,

George

Steve Clements
Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 910
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2022 2:44:39 PM
MD,

Wrong date for Mr. Howe. He actually scored his 545th goal in 1963. Perhaps ironically, it was against the Canadiens (the goalie was Charlie Hodge).

I lived in Montreal in 1963, and the race to eclipse Richard’s scoring record was a big deal at the time.

s.c.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2022 7:15:58 PM
Quote:
1919 Prohibition is passed by Congress! How did it go over?? Comments?

I agree with George. It was a profitable business across the country, though better where larger communities were involved. There was active bootleg trade across the Strait of Juan de Fuca from Victoria to the Port Angeles area (perhaps hauling illegal navy rum rations), and there were shipments from the delta islands south of Vancouver into the US. I think there was some traffic from Sidney BC (20 miles north of Victoria) into the US San Juan Islands as well.

There are stories galore, of course. One of my uncles was supposted to have crewed on a runner out of Steveston, fishing community just south of Vancouver. This makes some sense, of six surviving brothers, only one (my father) didn’t choose to make his living from the sea. But it other ways it makes no sense. The uncle in question was born in 1913, so could only have been involved in the last year or two at most (he left school at 15, in 1928).

The cross-border smuggling continues to this day, of course, though I believe it it typically a swap of drugs of choice these days.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2022 8:18:28 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check 1-17 for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Hey guys,

Cool correspondence from Hemingway George, Who's going to argue with him!? He spent a great deal of his early days in Michigan! Also Brian thanks for telling us how BC was involved in bootlegging, Here in West Michigan gangsters used to pick up shipments off Like Michigan from Canada! What would of the US done without our neighbors to the North?

Today in 1773 James Cook becomes the 1st explorer to cross the Antarctic Circle. What an adventurous life he lead!? Comments on all the accomplishments of Cook??


1827 the Duke of Wellington is appointed the Supreme allied commander, what's your take on the Duke? How was he able to defeat the so called genius commander, Napoleon Bonaparte??
What say you??

1912, Explorer Robert Falcon Scott arrive s at the South Pole finding that A unseen had already been there! Check out the sad picture the party seems to already know their fate!? Comments on this tragedy, why would these men risk their lives, & for what? Not sure I get it?

1966 Martin Luther King Jr. was speaking in Chicago! Today in the US its MKL Day, With Black Lives Matter. How far has Civil rights come in this country, & for that matter Canada, & others?? What say you??

Any other topics?


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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2022 7:16:24 PM
d
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2022 9:21:28 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check for 1-18 topics.?
cheers,
MD

1535 Conquistador Francisco Pizarro founds the City of Lima , Peru. Comments on how a small group of Spaniards could conquer a whole Inca Empire!?

1644, Pilgrims in Boston see a UFO! Seriously? Comments? Well they did believe in witches after all!??

1788 the 1st group of convicts, 736 of them arrive in Botany Bay, Australia! Does this explain the rowdiness of Aussies! What say you??

1865, the battle of Ft. Moultrie, begins, vital fort at the entrance to Charleston Harbour, A impressive located fort. Having been there, the history of the fort is impressive! Any questions??

1943 the seige of Leningrad is broken the Germans lose! Form a Soviet perspective, they won WWII! How accurate is that!? Comments on who was the #1 Allied Nation to most influence victory in WWII!?? Comments anyone?

Hopefully more of you will keep this daily thread going! I will be making my annual sojourn down south after a year off, be gone almost 2 months, hopefully I can dodge bad weather, & major traffic, & of course covid! Leaving Friday, so could use a little help with this daily thread!??

Happy trails to me!
MD

.

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2022 9:46:28 PM
MD, have a wonderful break from Northern Michigan weather, and don’t give a thought to the rest of us poor bastards doing our daily shovelling and dressing in multiple layers rather than just one!

Seriously, have a great break from SAD. I hope you might check in once in a while.

in the mean time, you note: Quote:
1644, Pilgrims in Boston see a UFO! Seriously? Comments? Well they did believe in witches after all!??

Nope. Uhuh. don’t buy it. If the Pilgrims (and were they still called Pilgrims 24 years after landing?) saw something, it would have been an omen, not a UFO. The link between a man and his God was incredibly immediate for most puritans (and the US Pilgrims were a simple combination of puritans from the Low Countries and England), so any unexplainable event in the heavens would typically be seen as a message from God.

Even in England, during the self-scourging after the restoration of Charles II, most of the population were prepared to see events in the sky as omens or warnings, or, at least, announcements. The concept of alien beings (other than angels or demons, which fit within Christian values of he time) was simply not in the cards.

You mention witches, but they were simply crones who chose the satanic path for certain powers of control. They were outliers – widows, or spinsters, or other outre beings – who could be held accountable for happenstance. Punishing a witch was no different from attempting to see natural issues as God’s will.

I don’t know when the first UFO was introduced, but I suspect it was probably after WW2. lt was not, I am certain, in 1644.

Cheers. Stay safe (you’re going in to vaccine lunacy territory IMHO). And have a great break!
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 9:52:44 AM
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.? Any new topics?? Anyone?
cheers,
MD

Thanks Brian,

Your right about going into the Covid fire! I have all 3 Covid shots, so hopefully we're ok!?

Stay safe,
MD

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 10:26:54 AM
Hi Dave,

Have a good time. Are you travelling by car? Seems a little bit safer, Covid-wise, if you are.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 12:37:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check for 1-18 & 1-19 topics.?
cheers,
MD

1535 Conquistador Francisco Pizarro founds the City of Lima , Peru. Comments on how a small group of Spaniards could conquer a whole Inca Empire!?

1788 the 1st group of convicts, 736 of them arrive in Botany Bay, Australia! Does this explain the rowdiness of Aussies! What say you??

1865, the battle of Ft. Moultrie, begins, vital fort at the entrance to Charleston Harbour, A impressive located fort. Having been there, the history of the fort is impressive! Any questions??

1943 the seige of Leningrad is broken the Germans lose! Form a Soviet perspective, they won WWII! How accurate is that!? Comments on who was the #1 Allied Nation to most influence victory in WWII!?? Comments anyone?

Hopefully more of you will keep this daily thread going! Checking out some sites in the Carolinas & Georgia, be gone almost 2 months, hopefully I can dodge bad weather, & major traffic, & of course covid! Leaving Friday, so could use a little help with this daily thread!??

Looking for some history &
warmer weather down south!
MD

.


Hi George,

We are traveling by car, & it is a concern going down there, possible ice storm in the Virginia's & Carolina's on Fri. & Sat. Just when we are traveling, hoping for the best! I'll keep ya posted, when I can!?

1-19 in 1915 the 1st air raid by a blimp bombing over England, by the Germans, 4 people killed! Anything else on blimp attacks? I can't see t hem being to devastating!? Comments? Anyone?

Later!

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 1:24:35 PM
Quote:
We are traveling by car, & it is a concern going down there, possible ice storm in the Virginia's & Carolina's on Fri. & Sat. Just when we are traveling, hoping for the best! I'll keep ya posted, when I can!?


Well, let's hope for good driving conditions. I got caught in a snow storm in West Virginia a couple of years ago. So many people without snow tires were in the ditch but we were fine.

And there is always that beautiful moment heading south when you realize that the outside temperatures have soared and you need A/C in the car. Peace and contentment for anyone who lives in snow country.

Have fun.

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 6:40:24 PM
On this day in 1977, President Ford granted a pardon to one of those who collectively were known as “Tokyo Rose”.

[Read More]

I have mixed responses to “Tokyo Rose” and to the impact of such propaganda resources. The Germans chose to use “Lord Haw Haw”, generated by a collection of voices but largely attributed to one William Joyce. Did the Allied Forces in the PTO and ETO respectively have equivalent voices? Did their broadcasts succeed in their intent? Were their trials post-war fair and accurate? Did some of the people broadcast out of fear? Is there an indication that any of the speakers hoped to undermine the intention of the broadcasts?

I’d love to hear responses to this!

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2022 7:58:14 PM
Hi Brian,

My late father John, WWII Pacific theater vet, said him, & the troops, thought Tokyo Rose, was hilarious! So I don't think she was effective at rile-lng the troops up, or getting in their psyche, if that was her intent!?

MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
MikeMeech
 UK
Posts: 528
Joined: 2012
This day in World History! Continued
1/20/2022 2:33:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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1-19 in 1915 the 1st air raid by a blimp bombing over England, by the Germans, 4 people killed! Anything else on blimp attacks? I can't see t hem being to devastating!? Comments? Anyone?

Later!



Hi

The German Airship (these were large rigid airships not 'blimps') raids during WW1 killed 557 and injured 1,358 people (183 and 516 of them in London), cost of damage £1,527,585. Aeroplane raids killed 857 and injured 2,058 (487/1,444 in London), cost of damage £1,434,526. (statistics from Appendix I of OH 'War in the Air' Volume V).

Mike
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/20/2022 6:41:51 AM
Thanks , Mike :

Do those figures allude to civilian victims only ; or do they include military personnel who were killed in Chatham or Folkestone when their barracks were hit ? I can’t remember where these military casualties were incurred, but for some reason I assume that they might have been bases near dockyards.

Regards, Phil



----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
MikeMeech
 UK
Posts: 528
Joined: 2012
This day in World History! Continued
1/20/2022 8:47:00 AM
Quote:
Thanks , Mike :

Do those figures allude to civilian victims only ; or do they include military personnel who were killed in Chatham or Folkestone when their barracks were hit ? I can’t remember where these military casualties were incurred, but for some reason I assume that they might have been bases near dockyards.

Regards, Phil





Hi

All casualties appear to be included. I presume you are referring to the raid on Shorncliffe and Folkestone on 25th May 1917 by German aeroplanes (they were supposed to be heading for London but due to a cloud bank they dropped their bombs just after crossing the coast). Page 21 of WitA Vol. V, has more detail stating that at Shorncliffe (and Cheriton) killed 17 Canadian soldiers and wounded 93, while casualties at Folkestone were 16 men (incl. one soldier), 31 women and 25 children killed, and 31 men(incl. 8 soldiers), 48 women and 12 children injured.

Mike
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/20/2022 1:18:39 PM
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Brian,

Sorry about Missing your
meaning on Tokyo Rose, if President Ford pardoned them it's not the WWII one!

Hi Mike,

Your right, I didn't realize how effective Zepplins were in WWI, thanks for pointing it out!

Check the read mores above for new topics?

Heading out to the Carolinas first daylight! Looking forward to you guys picking up the slack!?

Again thanks guys!.

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/20/2022 8:49:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks , Mike :

Do those figures allude to civilian victims only ; or do they include military personnel who were killed in Chatham or Folkestone when their barracks were hit ? I can’t remember where these military casualties were incurred, but for some reason I assume that they might have been bases near dockyards.

Regards, Phil





Hi

All casualties appear to be included. I presume you are referring to the raid on Shorncliffe and Folkestone on 25th May 1917 by German aeroplanes (they were supposed to be heading for London but due to a cloud bank they dropped their bombs just after crossing the coast). Page 21 of WitA Vol. V, has more detail stating that at Shorncliffe (and Cheriton) killed 17 Canadian soldiers and wounded 93, while casualties at Folkestone were 16 men (incl. one soldier), 31 women and 25 children killed, and 31 men(incl. 8 soldiers), 48 women and 12 children injured.

Mike



If I am not mistaken, the Canadian boys were buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery and there was a ceremony held in which school children placed flowers on the graves of the Canadians. I wish that I could find where I read it but I believe that "Canada Flower Day" (not sure if that's what it is called) is still an annual fixture. What a tight bond must have formed between the local folks and these men from overseas.

There were thousands of Canadians stationed there from Feb. 15, 1915 until sent to France. Apparently, they could stand on the shore and hear the sounds of artillery fire only 20 miles away. Must have been a strange feeling.



I also believe that May 25, 1917 was not the only day that soldiers and civilians in the Folkstone and Shorncliffe camp area died by Gotha bombers or by Zeppelin.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/21/2022 9:59:15 PM
Jan 21, 1976 saw the first commercial flight of the Concorde. A remarkable aircraft inaugurated an all-too rarified form of travel for all too short a time. Initially, the Concordes of Air France flew from Orly to Rio de Janeiro, while the British Concordes flew Heathrow to Bahrain, but trans-Atlantic flights to the US soon followed.

Was this an historical event, or merely one of many moments where a quiet, unnoticed shift in man’s story takes place. Am I making too big a deal of this inaugural flight?Love some thoughts on it, particularly from anyone who ever flew on one of these outrageously costly machines.

I only know two people (a couple) who flew Concorde. They had been bumped from 1st-class seats Heathrow to Vancouver, and were promised seats into New York on Concorde the next day as recompense. To this day, the man remembers both his seat number and the incredible buzz of the flight.

At the same time, the Concorde was essentially a costly error by futurists and others who misread the future of travel rather dramatically. Initial talks between Britain and France began in 1956, with design and implementation beginning in 1962. For timeline comparison, PanAm entered the 707 to commercial service in 1958. In 1960, it took an elapsed time of 21 hours to fly from Vancouver to Halifax. I know that, because I made the flight. But although there were air flights from North America to Europe, they were prohibitively expensive. Most travellers crossed the Atlantic by ship: it took four+ days, but was considered a major part of the travel experience.

IIUC, there was a debate – possibly introduced because of the DeHavilland Comet entering commercial flight in 1952 – over the future of travel. Air travel had always been expensive compared to ocean travel, going back to travel between the wars. As I understanding it, during debate in the 50s and early 60s, one side arguing that air travel would increasingly become more exclusive, used largely by diplomats and senior government officials (with some few business moguls) and the other believing that more people would travel if they didn’t have to spend a large portion of their vacation on transportation. This side of the market felt that a bulk carrier would reduce passenger flight cost considerably, and could be acceptably uncomfortable for a relatively short period of time. Wiki notes: Quote:
After introducing the 707 in October 1958, Pan Am wanted a jet 2+1⁄2 times its size, to reduce its seat cost by 30% to democratize air travel. In 1965, Joe Sutter left the 737 development program to design the 747, the first twin aisle airliner.


To be honest, I think we all know who got it right. It wasn’t the Concorde group. But I sense the “bulk packagers” have pushed things to the limit. Any time longer than six hours in any jet is now hazardous to a traveller’s health, and it will be interesting how this is dealt with. Also, the time benefits of short- or middle-distance flying have been eaten away by various health and security issues: often time in the departure lounge is as long as the flight time.

These are, of course, my views based on my less than expert understanding. I’d love alternate discussion, or insulting rejection, or whatever. I guess I think the first flight of the Concorde was significant, because it gave life to one vision of the future that didn’t prove viable.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1064
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/23/2022 4:28:43 PM
On this day in 1879, around 140 British and colonial forces defended the mission station / army hospital at Rorke’s Drift on the Natal / Zululand border.

Despite King Cetshwayo forbidding his forces from crossing into Natal (for fear of provoking a larger British response to the crisis), Zulu Impis attacked the disparate forces under the nominal command of Lt John Chard (although in practice it was seasoned veteran Assistant Commissary Dalton who did the tactical planning), who were hastily entrenched behind lines of mealie bags and biscuit boxes. The British forces kept up a fierce, tight firing line and despite numerous attacks by the Zulus, they were able to hold their ground and fend them off.

Many Victoria Crosses were handed out that day, being the single biggest outlay of VCs in one engagement in British military history. The last British survivor of the battle was Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne (later Lt Colonel Bourne), who died on VE Day in 1945.

The action at Rorke’s Drift spawned the classic movie ‘Zulu’, which I believe needs no introduction here.

Cheers,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/24/2022 9:28:33 AM
Quote:
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Hi Y'all,

Made it ok to the Carolina Coast, looking at the Atlantic, as I type, still kind of cold 36 degrees F, this morning, but nothing like all the snow & cold in the Great Lakes area.

Checking out 1-23 in history, We see Today in 1948 gold is discovered in California, what gold rush was the most lucrative? Comments anyone?

1892 in Uganda French Missionaries attack English Missionaries! What are they going to do throw bibles at each other!???

1915 the British & German Fleets fight off Dogger Bank, UK. Why is it in WWI naval engagements the German surface fleet gave the RN such a hard time! What say you??

1935 1st canned beer produced! Which way do you prefer your beer, cans or bottles, or just out of the keg??

1943 Hitler orders his troops in Stalingrad to fight to the death! Boy his generals hate that order! What say you about Hitler as A military leader??

Gotta go breakfast calls.

MD


BTW Brian,
How could the concord fly when it's nose was bent down??

Colin,
I always loved the movie Zulu! One of the better history movies IMHO!?

Hey guys, any other new topics???

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/25/2022 10:36:23 AM
Guys,

Today 1-25 in history;

1787 Shays Rebellion! Who was Daniel Shay, & what was he rebelling about? Anyone?

1840 Charles Wilkes discovers Antarctica as A continent! How could he prove this ??

1863 Hooker replaces Burnside! Did this help the Union at all?? Comments?

1865 Confederate warship CSS Shenandoah is in Australia! It will sink more Union vessels than any other Reb Raider! Any websites or comments how??

1918 Russia becomes Soviet Union! Why did the turn to Communism? What say you?

1942 Rommel winning in N.Africa! How did what happened on the Isle of Malta turn that around ? Anyone?

1955 Panama & US agreement reached! On the Canal was this agreement coerced? Anyone?

1981 Iran hostage crisis, how did we finally free them?? What say you?

Help answer these questions,
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/27/2022 9:04:59 AM
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check 1-27 for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Hey guys!

Where is everybody???? Hardly any posts lately, hey post something even if it's short!??????

Up north It must be terribly cold?? here in South Carolina it was 27F this morning!? How cold is it in your neck of the world? Anyway here is today in history!

1820 the Russians discover Antarctica! That's surprising, how many nations today have bases in Antarctica? Comments anyone!?

1825 the greedy racist US government institutes the trail of tears! Do you agree with that statement?? What say you?

1870 Manitoba & the NW Territories incorporated in Canada! How significant was this to a growing Canada??.Anyone?

1941 Peru warns the US of a possible attack on Pearl Harbor! How could they know 10 months before it happened?? What's your take on this?? Comments??

1943 1st USAF attack on Germany was this to much for the Luftwaffe to overcome, with the RAF already.bombing them big-time? What say you?

1944 the Russians win the Siege of Leningrad! Was this the turning point of WWII in Europe? Or was it other events? What say you??

1945 Russian Troops liberate Auschwitz! How horrific this must have been! Comments on on perceptions on discovering these death camps!?

1965 Apollo 1 tragic fire! How could this happen on the ground in a training situaton? What say you??

Plenty to discuss here, please pitch in! Let's get active again!?

Any new topics?
Regards, stay safe!
MD


.

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/27/2022 12:07:41 PM
Quote:
1870 Manitoba & the NW Territories incorporated in Canada! How significant was this to a growing Canada??.Anyone?


The Dominion of Canada was formed in 1867 by a confederation of four provinces. And the new government of Canada sought to expand to the west before the Americans determined to move north and make claim.

In 1870 Canada purchased the vast Hudson's Bay Co. tract called Rupert's Land. That tract encompassed about 3,861,400 square kilometres (1,490,900 square miles).



Manitoba, as you can see from the map was only a postage stamp in the vast Northwest Territory in 1870. BC was still a separate colony and would be for another year. Provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan did not exist. Today, Manitoba is a very large land mass as most Canadian provinces tend to be. It extends north to Nunavut Territory and NE to Hudson Bay. For reference, that makes Manitoba just a little smaller than the US state of Texas.



So why was Manitoba granted provincial status in 1870?

It was seen as the only means to resolve the differences between Canada and the people of the Red River Colony and the people known as Métis. The Métis are a new culture resulting from the union of European fur traders and First Nation's people. They had been farming along the Red River and there were about 10K of them.

With the purchase of Rupert's Land and the encouragement of immigration into that territory, other settlers began to arrive and there was conflict between them and the Métis. The Métis were concerned that their way of life which included the buffalo hunt, their French language and their Catholic faith would be under threat.

Led by Louis Riel, a rebellion ensued in 1870. Riel was demanding that Manitoba be created as a province and in the end, that is what happened. Métis language and religious rights were guaranteed in the Manitoba Act and thousands of acres of land were set aside for the Métis people.

Now Manitoba had no business in aspiring to provincial status at that time. It could not support itself financially. But this was the price to be paid by Canada if it hoped to settle it's west and northwest. The deal also included hefty provincial subsidy to make the fifth province viable.

The deal was flawed however and Riel, exiled in the US, made a return and in 1885 a second rebellion took place. This one was farther to the west in what would become Saskatchewan. Not happy with their lot in the new province of Manitoba, many Métis migrated west and determined to fight for the rights that they felt were not upheld in Manitoba. The second rebellion, the North-West Rebellion was a more bloody affair.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/27/2022 11:58:01 PM
As MD notes:Quote:
1945 Russian Troops liberate Auschwitz! How horrific this must have been! Comments on on perceptions on discovering these death camps!?
This makes today International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Sadly, in my part of the world, I saw no recognition of the event or the day.

Two thoughts on what should be a day of deep introspection for every living human being.

First, can it be said that the huge complex under the name of Auschwitz was “liberated”, or only that it was overrun? Not because it was Soviet troops who arrived rather than western ones, but because I would think the vast majority of those found alive were never “liberated”, but only released alive. Auschwitz has become so much more than an extermination factory; it is both symbol and monument to the two extremes of degradation. We all know it was not the only camp, and there were horrors specific to camps less well-known than Auschwitz.

Secondly, although again I saw little recognition of Holocaust Day in my home town, I see it as one day when we must consider the failures of the human race. People did this to people. The anniversary of the Wannsee Protocol occurred mere days ago, when people just like MHO members sat down and devised an industrial program to kill fellow humans for their faith, their language, their sexual orientation, their colour, their politics. This should be seen as a day of human culpability; to whatever God or values we hold sacred, we should be offering mea culpas. Didn’t happen in my home town.

Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 8:53:10 AM
Quote:
Quote:
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cheers,
MD

Today in history 1099, the 1st Crusade is in full swing with attacks in Syria, what say you about warfare over religion!?

1521 King Charles V opens a diet of Worms! It had to be awful for him unless he's like a Robin or Fish!? Any comments on the diet??

1547 A 9 year old succeeds Henry Henry VIII as king of England! How did this kid king do? Brian, what say you?

1864 in the CW the Battle of New Bern, NC. Who won & how important was this battle? Any CW posters, comments??

1865 Confederate President Jefferson Davis names 3 peace officers, did he hold out hope for a peaceful exit from the Union still?? What say you on how close the Confederacy, would come to a diplomatic end to the CW with independence for the South!? Comments, anyone??

1944 683 RAF Bombers attack Berlin! Greetings to the Fuhrer! How successful was this attack!? Anyone??

1973 Bloody Sunday in N. Ireland! Any posts on it's history of what occurred there? Anyone??

1822, Alexander Mackenzie's birthday,on this date, he was the 2nd Priminister of Canada, what kind of leader was he?? Comments?

Comments on the above events?
Anyone?? Or new events?

Cheers,
MD

BTW, George,

Thanks for the Canadian NW territory history lesson! BTW, The US also once had NW territory, Michigan was part of it!?

Brian,

Your right, it is a sad horrific tragedy, & terrible reflection on humanity, that this could possibly happen!?


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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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