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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 6:18:00 PM
Thanks George,

For the detailed breakdown of minorities, I would have thought with the US's recent problems our percentage of moving to Canada would be greater than 2%!?

But that's ok!
Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 6:34:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey guys, moved this to our new page for discussions!? Anyone??

Moving on to October, on the 1st, these events occurred! Comments!?

331 bce, ( what does bce, stand for??) Alexander the Great, & his army defeated the Persians! Why were the Greeks always able to beat Persia!? What say you??

1553 Mary I is crowned Queen of England, does she deserve to be called Bloody Mary! Anyone?? Also as far as the drink bloody mary, the spicier the better??

1946 22 of 24 Nazis convicted of war crimes! Was this just?? Comments??

1949 Communist China is established! They today are making artificial islands!? What do you think of that!? Why??

Moving on!
MD


Forgot to post some history from today 10-2's events! Comments??

1780 John Andre is executed as A spy! Did he take the fall for Benedict Arnold! They tried to take West Point!

On 10-3,

1862 the Union wins the battle of Corinth, MS.! Why did the Union win so much in the west!??

1952 the British have the bomb! How do they rate as A Nuclear power? Could they give the bomb to say Canada?

Germany is reunited in 1990? What took so long?? Anyone?
!
Also 10-2,

1869 Mahatma Gandhi, is born! Do you see any parallels with his life, & Martin Luther King Jr.'s? Anyone?

& today 10-4,

1853, the Crimean War begins! Who won! & can anyone post the Charge of the Light Brigade!? Love that poem! ?

Any new posts?? Anyone?
Thanks,
MD

Also from 10-2, A couple more events!?

1935 Italy invades Ethiopia! Why?? What say you??

& Don't forget to seize the day!!

1836 Charles Darwin returns to England, stating we evolved from.ape like humanoids! Do you buy this? Comments?

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 7:27:28 PM
This, for me, is the closing hours of Good Buddy Day.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 8:14:14 PM
OP,

That's a 10-4!!!

MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 9:30:48 PM
Quote:
1952 the British have the bomb! How do they rate as A Nuclear power? Could they give the bomb to say Canada?


Does Canada want nuclear weapons? The answer is no and we could have had them long ago when the US sent BOMARC missiles to be established at bases across Canada. Those missiles were supposed to be nuclear tipped. If memory serves, they were initially equipped as such and then rejected by Canada.

But we also have to understand that Canada was engaged in nuclear research during WWII and a research lab was established in Montréal in conjunction with the British.

EDIT: If you wish you may google George Laurence who was a research physicist at the Canadian National Research Council. He was experimenting with slow neutrons in 1940. Laurence was in communication with British and US researchers.

Canada has also developed its own nuclear reactor system and has sold them to other countries. What we have not done, is use our nuclear knowledge to build a weapon. And even if we did, how would we deliver it? We gave up on our rocketry programmes decades ago.

Cheers,

George

EDIT: Britain has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and should not send weapons to other countries. That treaty recognizes only 5 countries that should have nuclear weapons, the US, UK, China, France and Russia. We all know that a few others have somehow acquired weapons.

As well, Canada has no need for nukes as we are under the nuclear umbrella of the US. That gives me cold comfort as the US would like us to allow an anti-ballistic missile system to be installed in Canada. That way incoming nukes have the chance to be destroyed before they reach US air space which of course is Canadian airspace.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/4/2022 10:07:28 PM
On this date in 1582 the calendar based on the calculations of Pope Gregory XIII – the Gregorian or New Style calendar – was proclaimed as a replacement for the Julian calendar. It was adopted by much of Catholic Europe in following years, but in England it was not adopted until September, 1752, 169 years later. By that time, an adaptation was needed to align dates with other nations, so September 2, 1752 – overnight – transitioned to September 14, 1752.

Certain elements of British society were vastly upset, and demanded their lost days. When I was younger, I found their plea funny. Now I feel some sympathy for them; they had little understanding of the correlation of human terms to natural realities, and felt cheated.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/5/2022 11:42:41 AM
Hi Brian,

Speaking of the Gregorian Calendar, what about the great music in the Gregorian Chants!! ☺

Cheers,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/6/2022 6:19:21 PM
Hey MHO'ers,

10-6, today in history, A few events are listed below! Any others?? Anyone??

105 bce the Romans are defeated by Germanic Tribes!! Prior to this, the Romans were almost unbeatable!? What happened? How did these so called barbarians win!? Anyone??

1892 Alfred Lord Tennyson great English Poet passes away! You recall "the charge of the light Brigade"! A fav. of mine!? Any others, or facts about Tennyson to post? Comments!?

1976 Chairman Mao dies! What was his influence on Red China! Anyone??

1981 Egyptian President Anwar Sedat is assassinated!? How did this effect the situation in the Middle East!? Why would Muslims kill him?? Did Isreal react in anyway?? What say you?? Is the middle east still a powder keg?? Comments?

1914 Thor Heyerdahl is born he believed the Pacific Islands were colonized from South America, using a raft called the Kon Tiki, he tried to prove it? Was he right or wrong!? What say you? Any good websites on it? Or Comments!?

Regards,
MD

BTW 8 days ago Hurricane Ian hit Florida, & then other areas of the SE United States, for some it will take months, even years to get back their homes! Really global warming is making our weather more hostile, don't you think?!! What say you!??



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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/6/2022 7:24:20 PM
Do we have confirmation from the weather people that the weather is getting more hostile. I've sat through a few hurricanes and they seemed like the end of the world until they were gone.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 9:09:59 AM
Quote:
Do we have confirmation from the weather people that the weather is getting more hostile. I've sat through a few hurricanes and they seemed like the end of the world until they were gone.


Hi OP,

What do you think of Global Warming?

Just curious?
MD

BTW Other MHO'ers what do you think? Is it a hoax? Or a reality??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 12:06:50 PM
Quote:
Hey MHO'ers,

10-6, today in history, A few events are listed below! Any others?? Anyone??

105 bce the Romans are defeated by Germanic Tribes!! Prior to this, the Romans were almost unbeatable!? What happened? How did these so called barbarians win!? Anyone??

1892 Alfred Lord Tennyson great English Poet passes away! You recall "the charge of the light Brigade"! A fav. of mine!? Any others, or facts about Tennyson to post? Comments!?

1976 Chairman Mao dies! What was his influence on Red China! Anyone??

1981 Egyptian President Anwar Sedat is assassinated!? How did this effect the situation in the Middle East!? Why would Muslims kill him?? Did Isreal react in anyway?? What say you?? Is the middle east still a powder keg?? Comments?

1914 Thor Heyerdahl is born he believed the Pacific Islands were colonized from South America, using a raft called the Kon Tiki, he tried to prove it? Was he right or wrong!? What say you? Any good websites on it? Or Comments!?

Regards,
MD

BTW 8 days ago Hurricane Ian hit Florida, & then other areas of the SE United States, for some it will take months, even years to get back their homes! Really global warming is making our weather more hostile, don't you think?!! What say you!??





Checking 10-7, in today in history, we see these events, comments or ad your own topics from today's history? Thanks!

1571 The Christian Navy defeats the Ottoman Turkish Navy in the Battle of Lepanto! Anyone have the scoop on what type of ships & technology was used in this naval fight?? What significance did it have on the area?

1765, the colonies stamp act congress meets! Did the colonies have legitimate complaints! What say you??

1780 the Patriots defeat Loyalists at the Battle of Kings Mountain! Was this a turning point in the Revolutionary War in the south? Any good websites on it, or comments??

1949 The German Democratic Republic is formed was it a true democracy!? What say you?? We notice Democratic Republic is used by other Communist Regimes, like Vietnam, Korea, China, ect!? Are they misnomers?? Comments as to why?? Anyone?

Seize the day!
MD

Also on 2001 in answer in part to 9-11 attacks the Afghan War starts! What's your perception on this?? Anyone?


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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 1:57:32 PM
I will just echo OP. In addition, I would say that attempts to tie one "weather event" to global warming is a shallow exercise. In the aftermath of Katrina we saw a constant drumbeat of " we are going to see more and more destructive storms destroy our gulf coasts....only to have nearly a decade of relative calm with no such large and horrific storms.

Weather is weather. When we have unusually harsh cold weather, it does not mean the globe is cooling because of man...and other weather events do not prove the other. It`s weather.

Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 6:14:15 PM
Thank you Morris! ☺
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1527
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 6:48:23 PM
1949 The German Democratic Republic is formed was it a true democracy!? What say you?? We notice Democratic Republic is used by other Communist Regimes, like Vietnam, Korea, China, ect!? Are they misnomers?? Comments as to why?? Anyone?

Seize the day!
MD

Hi MD:

It was also on this day 1989 that the East German government and citizens would officially celebrate for the last time the founding of East Germany. As we all know, the Berlin wall and Iron Curtain where months away from falling, millions of peoples would be freed from Communist oppression.

[Read More]



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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/7/2022 8:21:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey MHO'ers,

Perhaps Lord Tennyson''s greatest poem, A line used by Sir Robert Scott in his death tent!
"Made weak by time & fate! "To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield!" From his poem Ulysses! What a poem! What a line! What say you? Could someone post the whole poem!??

Thanks!
MD

1892 Alfred Lord Tennyson great English Poet passes away! You recall "the charge of the light Brigade"! A fav. of mine!? Any others, or facts about Tennyson to post? Comments!?



Checking 10-7, in today in history, we see these events, comments or ad your own topics from today's history? Thanks!

1571 The Christian Navy defeats the Ottoman Turkish Navy in the Battle of Lepanto! Anyone have the scoop on what type of ships & technology was used in this naval fight?? What significance did it have on the area?

1765, the colonies stamp act congress meets! Did the colonies have legitimate complaints! What say you??

1780 the Patriots defeat Loyalists at the Battle of Kings Mountain! Was this a turning point in the Revolutionary War in the south? Any good websites on it, or comments??

1949 The German Democratic Republic is formed was it a true democracy!? What say you?? We notice Democratic Republic is used by other Communist Regimes, like Vietnam, Korea, China, ect!? Are they misnomers?? Comments as to why?? Anyone?

Seize the day!
MD

Also on 2001 in answer in part to 9-11 attacks the Afghan War starts! What's your perception on this?? Anyone?

PS. Thanks for your responses!



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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
10/8/2022 6:55:36 AM
Alvin York

On October 8, 1918, United States Corporal Alvin C. York reportedly kills over 20 German soldiers and captures an additional 132 at the head of a small detachment in the Argonne Forest near the Meuse River in France. The exploits later earned York the Medal of Honor.

Born in 1887 in a log cabin near the Tennessee-Kentucky border, York was the third of 11 children in a family supported by subsistence farming and hunting. After experiencing a religious conversion, he became a fundamentalist Christian around 1915. Two years later, when the United States entered World War I, York was drafted into the U.S. Army. After being denied conscientious-objector status, York enlisted in the 82nd Infantry Division and in May 1918 arrived in France for active duty on the Western Front. He served in the successful Saint-Mihiel offensive in September of that year, was promoted to corporal and given command of his own squad.

The events of October 8, 1918, took place as part of the Meuse-Argonne offensive—what was to be the final Allied push against German forces on the Western Front during World War I. York and his battalion were given the task of seizing German-held positions across a valley; after encountering difficulties, the small group of soldiers—numbering some 17 men—were fired upon by a German machine-gun nest at the top of a nearby hill. The gunners cut down nine men, including a superior officer, leaving York in charge of the squad.​

As York wrote in his diary of his subsequent actions: “[T]hose machine guns were spitting fire and cutting down the undergrowth all around me something awful…. I didn’t have time to dodge behind a tree or dive into the brush, I didn’t even have time to kneel or lie down…. As soon as the machine guns opened fire on me, I began to exchange shots with them. In order to sight me or to swing their machine guns on me, the Germans had to show their heads above the trench, and every time I saw a head I just touched it off. All the time I kept yelling at them to come down. I didn’t want to kill any more than I had to. But it was they or I. And I was giving them the best I had.”

Several other American soldiers followed York’s lead and began firing; as they drew closer to the machine-gun nest, the German commander—thinking he had underestimated the size of the enemy squadron—surrendered his garrison of some 90 men. On the way back to the Allied lines, York and his squad took more prisoners, for a total of 132. Though Alvin York consistently played down his accomplishments of that day, he was given credit for killing more than 20 German soldiers. Promoted to the rank of sergeant, he remained on the front lines until November 1, 10 days before the armistice. In April 1919, York was awarded the highest American military decoration, the Medal of Honor.

scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/8/2022 9:19:44 AM
Quote:
1571 The Christian Navy defeats the Ottoman Turkish Navy in the Battle of Lepanto.


Not so much about the Battle of Lepanto but one of those historical quirks and sense of place where historical events have happened and a sense of historical imagination..

Back in the 90`s I used to visit a friend living in the old town of Regensburg in Bavaria. I was fascinated by the first visit to find a plaque outside the house saying that here was born John of Austria, victor of the Battle of Lepanto. Didn´t interest my friend much.

Just to add further, when you walked out of the apartment you are standing at the spot where Marshall Lannes, during the battle of Regensburg in 1809, proclaimed " Before I was a Marshall, I was a grenadier" and led the storm against the Citadel.



Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
10/9/2022 7:56:08 AM
During the Battle of Britain, the German Luftwaffe launches a heavy nighttime air raid on London. The dome of St. Paul’s Cathedral was pierced by a Nazi bomb, leaving the high altar in ruin. It was one of the few occasions that the 17th-century cathedral suffered significant damage during Germany’s nearly ceaseless bombing raids on London in the fall of 1940.

According to tradition, a Roman temple to the goddess Diana once stood on Ludgate Hill at the site of St. Paul’s Cathedral. In 604 A.D., King Aethelberht I dedicated the first Christian cathedral there to St. Paul. That cathedral burned, and its replacement was destroyed by Vikings in 962. A third cathedral was destroyed by fire in 1087 and was replaced by a grand Norman structure that was completed in the 13th century. In the 16th century, the fourth cathedral fell into disrepair and was damaged by fire, and further harm was done during the English civil wars of the 17th century. In the 1660s, the English architect Sir Christopher Wren was enlisted to repair the cathedral, but the Great Fire of London intervened, destroying Old St. Paul’s Cathedral in 1666.

In the aftermath of the fire, Wren designed a new St. Paul’s Cathedral, with dozens of smaller new churches ranged around it like satellites. The cathedral was Wren’s masterpiece, featuring a baroque design and a prominent, stately dome. Wren himself set down the foundation block in 1675 and in 1710 put the final stone in place. When the architect died in 1723, he was buried with great ceremony in St. Paul’s. An inscription near his tomb reads, Lector, si monumentum requiris, circumspice–Latin for “Reader, if you seek a monument, look about you.” Many other notable British citizens later joined him in St. Paul’s crypts, including the military heroes Lord Nelson and the Duke of Wellington.​

St. Paul’s Cathedral became an inspiration to the British people during World War II. In the Battle of Britain, the Luftwaffe attempted to bomb Britain into submission by pounding London and other major cities, but St. Paul’s miraculously escaped major bomb damage, even as historic buildings nearby were reduced to rubble. Images of St. Paul’s framed by smoke and fire became a symbol of Britain’s indomitable spirit. Civilian defense brigades, including the St. Paul’s Fire Watch, protected the structure from fire, and at one point an unexploded bomb was removed at great risk from the roof of the cathedral. Despite the damage caused on the night of October 9, 1940, the cathedral survived the Blitz largely intact. In 1944, St. Paul’s bells rang out to celebrate the liberation of Paris, and in 1945 services marking the end of the war in Europe were attended by 35,000 people.​
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/9/2022 5:09:52 PM
Hi NYG,

It's almost unbelievable that 17 soldiers mostly Sargent York, would capture 132 Germans! I also liked the movie with Gary Cooper, my dad met Mr Cooper in WWII when he visited the troops in the Pacific! He even gave him a riding stick he made, My late father, John was with the 1st US Cavalry!

Thanks & regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 9:28:30 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hey MHO'ers,

Just bringing these undiscussed topics to the new page, comments??

Checking 10-7, in today in history, we see these events, comments or ad your own topics from today's history? Thanks!

1765, the colonies stamp act congress meets! Did the colonies have legitimate complaints! What say you??

1780 the Patriots defeat Loyalists at the Battle of Kings Mountain! Was this a turning point in the Revolutionary War in the south? Any good websites on it, or comments??

1949 The German Democratic Republic is formed was it a true democracy!? What say you?? We notice Democratic Republic is used by other Communist Regimes, like Vietnam, Korea, China, ect!? Are they misnomers?? Comments as to why?? Anyone?

On 10-10 these 2 events happened!?

1970 Fiji gained independence from Great Britain! Back in history the Fijians had competitions with Tonga, the losers would get eaten! Seriously!? Comments?

1979 NHL Wayne Gretsky gets his 1st goal NHL goal! Was he the greatest offensive scorer in NHL history!? Anyone??

Any other events on this day in history?? Sorry getting my dates out of order!?

Regards,
MD

10-7, Also on 2001 in answer in part to 9-11 attacks the Afghan War starts! What's your perception on this? Why could no outside army defeat the Afghans? Anyone?




10-8-1871 the Great Chicago fire wipes out the city! Supposedly started by a cow! Has your city suffered from a great fire? Early on fire departments were left wanting!? Comments?

10-9 in history, the following occurred!

1635 Roger Williams banished to Rhode Island from Massachusetts Colony because of religious differences! Talk about freedom of religion!? Do you think religion is to involved in government!? What say you??

1888 the Washington Monument is dedicated! Why does it have2 types of bricks!? Anyone?

1940 Beatle John Lennon is born, why would anyone kill a musician like him?? Comments?

& 10-10 in history, the following

1845, the US Naval Academy is formed! When do you think the USN finally caught the RN!?

10-12, is Columbus Day! Take a Viking to lunch!? ☺

MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 10:46:58 AM
Quote:
1845, the US Naval Academy is formed! Do the British, & other countries have noted Naval.Academies?? Anyone?


I know that the British have Britannia Royal Naval College at Dartmouth. It dates from 1863.

But before that, the British had established the Royal Naval Academy at Portsmouth in 1733. That became the Royal Navy College in 1806.

France established its École Navale (translated as Naval School) in 1830.

Even Canada has its Royal Naval College of Canada, established in 1910 which coincides with the establishment of the RCN.


I would guess that many others of the world's navies have some sort of academy or college to train officers although some may choose to send candidates directly to sea to learn on the job. I think that the Brits tried that when they closed the Royal Navy College but later decided that that was not the best way to train officers, hence the Britannia Royal Naval College was created.

Other than the RCN history, I had to look the other information up.

Like this:

Established in 1817, Norway trains its officers at the Royal Norwegian Naval Academy.

So the practice seems quite common remembering of course that many of the European navies had been operating long before the USN and would have established their training methods earlier.

Cheers,

George

scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 11:20:12 AM
Quote:
BTW Trevor what army are those soldiers with the tall hats from? They couldn't be to practical for warfare??


Napoleonic French.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 11:54:18 AM
On October 10, 1944, 800 Romani children, including more than a hundred boys between 9 and 14 years old, are systematically murdered.

Auschwitz was really a group of camps, designated I, II and III. There were also 40 smaller “satellite” camps. It was at Auschwitz II, at Birkenau, established in October 1941, that the SS created a complex, monstrously orchestrated killing ground: 300 prison barracks; four “bathhouses,” in which prisoners were gassed; corpse cellars; and cremating ovens. Thousands of prisoners were also used as fodder for medical experiments, overseen and performed by the camp doctor, Josef Mengele (“the Angel of Death”).

A mini-revolt took place on October 7, 1944. As several hundred Jewish prisoners were being forced to carry corpses from the gas chambers to the furnace to dispose of the bodies, they blew up one of the gas chambers and set fire to another, using explosives smuggled to them from Jewish women who worked in a nearby armaments factory. Of the roughly 450 prisoners involved in the sabotage, about 250 managed to escape the camp during the ensuing chaos. They were all found and shot. Those co-conspirators who never made it out of the camp were also executed, as were five women from the armaments factory—but not before being tortured for detailed information on the smuggling operation. None of the women talked.

Romani people, too, had been singled out for brutal treatment by Hitler’s regime early on. Deemed “carriers of disease” and “unreliable elements who cannot be put to useful work,” they were marked for extermination along with the Jews of Europe from the earliest years of the war. Approximately 1.5 million Romani people were murdered by the Nazis. In 1950, as Romani people attempted to gain compensation for their suffering, as were other victims of the Holocaust, the German government denied them anything, saying, they "have been persecuted under the Nazis not for any racial reason but because of an asocial and criminal record.” They were stigmatized even in light of the atrocities committed against them.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 5:34:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
BTW Trevor what army are those soldiers with the tall hats from? They couldn't be to practical for warfare??


Napoleonic French.

Trevor


Hi Trevor,

You wonder why would Napoleon's French Soldiers wear such a cumbersome head gear? What beneficial purpose could it possibly serve?? Anyone?? I don't see how they could even keep them on their heads in an action packed battle??

Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 6:16:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
BTW Trevor what army are those soldiers with the tall hats from? They couldn't be to practical for warfare??


Napoleonic French.

Trevor


Hi Trevor,

You wonder why would Napoleon's French Soldiers wear such a cumbersome head gear? What beneficial purpose could it possibly serve?? Anyone?? I don't see how they could even keep them on their heads in an action packed battle??

Regards,
MD


MD,

They were called Shakos and every army wore them during the Napoleonic wars.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 7:25:45 PM
I believe that the US army wore shakos during the War of 1812



I recall reading somewhere that the shakos were uncomfortable and hot to wear but it was felt that it made the soldier look taller.

Cheers,

George
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
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This day in World History! Continued
10/10/2022 10:29:51 PM
And in the Mexican-American war




Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 6:53:30 AM
On October 11, 1776, a British fleet under Sir Guy Carleton defeats 15 American gunboats under the command of Brigadier General Benedict Arnold at the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain, in what is now Clinton County, New York.

Although nearly all of Arnold’s ships were destroyed, it took more than two days for the British to subdue the Patriot naval force, delaying Carleton’s campaign and giving the Patriot ground forces adequate time to prepare a crucial defense of New York.

One year earlier, during the Patriots’ unsuccessful campaign to take Canada, Carleton, the royal governor general of Canada, had managed to escape Patriot General Richard Montgomery’s early successful attacks during the summer and autumn. He snuck into Quebec City, organized 1,800 men for the city’s defense, and prepared to wait out the Patriot siege. The Patriots, facing a deadline as their troops’ enlistments expired at the end of the year, fired arrows over the city walls on December 7. The arrows carried letters demanding Carleton’s surrender. When Carleton did not acquiesce, the Americans began a bombardment of the city with Montgomery’s cannon on December 8. They then attempted a disastrous failed assault on December 31, in which Montgomery was killed and Arnold seriously wounded. The action around Valcour Island was the final stage of Carleton’s effort to drive Arnold from Canada, once and for all.



Arnold was considered a Patriot hero for his bravery in the siege of Quebec, and earlier during the Patriot capture of Fort Ticonderoga, New York, on May 10, 1775. Arnold, however, did not feel that he had received sufficient accolades for his efforts, and, while serving as commander of West Point in 1780, agreed to surrender the important Hudson River fort to the British for a bribe of £20,000. The plot was discovered after British spy John Andre was captured while carrying incriminating papers, forcing Arnold to flee to British protection. He then joined the British in their fight against the country that he had once so valiantly served.

Arnold died in London in 1801. To Americans, his name is still synonymous with the word “traitor.”
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George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 8:34:22 AM
Quote:
On October 11, 1776, a British fleet under Sir Guy Carleton defeats 15 American gunboats under the command of Brigadier General Benedict Arnold at the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain, in what is now Clinton County, New York.

Although nearly all of Arnold’s ships were destroyed, it took more than two days for the British to subdue the Patriot naval force, delaying Carleton’s campaign and giving the Patriot ground forces adequate time to prepare a crucial defense of New York.

One year earlier, during the Patriots’ unsuccessful campaign to take Canada, Carleton, the royal governor general of Canada, had managed to escape Patriot General Richard Montgomery’s early successful attacks during the summer and autumn. He snuck into Quebec City, organized 1,800 men for the city’s defense, and prepared to wait out the Patriot siege. The Patriots, facing a deadline as their troops’ enlistments expired at the end of the year, fired arrows over the city walls on December 7. The arrows carried letters demanding Carleton’s surrender. When Carleton did not acquiesce, the Americans began a bombardment of the city with Montgomery’s cannon on December 8. They then attempted a disastrous failed assault on December 31, in which Montgomery was killed and Arnold seriously wounded. The action around Valcour Island was the final stage of Carleton’s effort to drive Arnold from Canada, once and for all.



Arnold was considered a Patriot hero for his bravery in the siege of Quebec, and earlier during the Patriot capture of Fort Ticonderoga, New York, on May 10, 1775. Arnold, however, did not feel that he had received sufficient accolades for his efforts, and, while serving as commander of West Point in 1780, agreed to surrender the important Hudson River fort to the British for a bribe of £20,000. The plot was discovered after British spy John Andre was captured while carrying incriminating papers, forcing Arnold to flee to British protection. He then joined the British in their fight against the country that he had once so valiantly served.

Arnold died in London in 1801. To Americans, his name is still synonymous with the word “traitor.”
====================================================================================================================================================



Perspective and frame of reference are everything, aren't they?

First, the insurrectionists headed up the Richelieu Valley in 1775 with orders to seize Québec. They took a while to subdue a couple of British installations on the Richelieu River and then headed into Montréal. The goal was to encourage Les Canadiens to join the glorious rebellion.

But Montgomery's seizure of Montréal was a ham fisted and arrogant attempt to subjugate the Montréalers. The first thing that they did was to close all of the Roman Catholic churches and used some of them to shelter their horses. So immediately they lost any support from the RC clergy who held great sway over the populace.

They announced that anyone who spoke ill of the insurrection would be exiled and quickly sent about 200 people away.

They tried to pay the shopkeepers with Continental script and those shopkeepers wanted none of that and so the rebels pilfered.

They brought smallpox with them. So poorly was this invasion handled that the Continental Congress despatched Ben Franklin to salvage the situation. He assessed what had gone on and determined that it would be easier to buy Quebec than to conquer it.

The assumption was that the Canadiens would leap at the chance for retribution against their British conquerers but the Québec Act of 1774 which expanded the size of the colony also guaranteed the people the right to practice their faith as they wished. So that act, considered so egregious by the insurrectionists, was embraced by Les Canadiens who saw their future as more solid if they aligned with the British. To do otherwise would see their fate determined by the anti-Catholic Protestant rebels from some of the 13 colonies.

Guy Carleton's forces had to retreat from the Montréal area but the rebels pounced on the fleet of boats that were to transport Carleton and his troops to Québec City. The original poster said that he "snuck" into Québec implying of course that he lacked courage. I dispute that.

Yes, he was nearly captured but managed to sail downstream to Québec where he assumed command on Nov. 19. Fortunately, the citadel had been well prepared for siege.

The two pronged attack on New Year's Eve by the rebels in a driving snowstorm was an abysmal failure. As mentioned, Brig. Gen. Montgomery was killed while Major-General Arnold was wounded.

Arnold had arrived before Montgomery. Arnold had driven his force of about 700 men through the Maine forests and they were a willing though tired group when they arrived. Montgomery arrived from the west with 300-400 men.

Arnold did penetrate the Lower town but he was wounded in the ankle and taken from the field of battle. Montgomery was killed by musket fire along with many of his men as they attempted to storm the other side of Lower Town. 60 rebels died and 426 were wounded.

The men on Montgomery's side tried to rally but the British sent 500 soldiers to attack and forced them to surrender. I believe that about 400 rebels were taken prisoner.

Now under Arnold's command, the rebels attempted to maintain their siege but the fortress had been well prepared for this and in May when the ice went out, the mighty RN with thousands of British soldiers under Gen. Burgoyne arrived, the rebels decided to end the siege. They were pursued by the British and in a final battle at Trois Rivieres were defeated.

And I believe that that was the last time that the rebels attempted to take the British colonies that did not wish to join the insurrection.

The great patriot Benedict Arnold finally realized the error of his ways and returned to his duty as a British officer. Montgomery, also a British officer was killed.

George
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 9:25:33 AM
The comment was what happened on this date in 1776.

For a newly free country, the fact that the Americans captured Montreal was significant enough. Plus the march of Arnold through the wilderness of Maine showed the fortitude of the American soldier. That fortitude was put on display in 1777 at Fort Stanwix and at Bennington and at Saratoga.

From my perspective, this makes, in 2 wars, 3 attempts by the Brits to invade the fledging United States via the Lake Champlain- Hudson River-Mohawk River corridor.. And 3 times they were turned back or forced to surrender.

Benedict Arnold was a traitor to the United States. Just another mercenary the Brits used to quell a revolution by freedom seeking people.
George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 12:50:16 PM
Absolutely remarkable NYGiant. Such hoo-rah hubris. The attack on Montréal was accomplished with little action on the part of the rebels.

The Continental Army was supposed to take Fort St. John on the way to Montreal via the Richelieu valley but they were unsuccessful initially and forced to lay siege.

Initially, Ethan Allen was despatched by Gen. Montgomery to try pick up some recruits to help lay siege and eventually take Fort St. John. He found a few and joined with another group led by Major John Brown and together they decided to take Montréal. Guy Carleton got wind of the plan to attack Longue-Pointe on the island upon which the town of Montréal sat.

Carleton attacked Allen's group at Longue-Pointe and many of them scattered and ran. It's fine to talk about the intrepid freedom fighters but you must acknowledge when they don't show quite as much fortitude. Ethan Allen was captured and sent to England.

There were no casualties for the British. A number of rebels were killed but the number is unknown.

But Montgomery's forces did take Fort Chambly and Fort St. John surrendered. At that point, Carleton decided to withdraw his forces and to head for Québec City as he had insufficient numbers to defend the town.

Montgomery arrived at an island near Montréal and then headed into the town to talk to a citizen's committee. They, with little choice, surrendered the city without a fight.

Benedict Arnold was probably the best fighting general that Washington had but he made a tactical error in heading through the Maine wilderness. It was a 482 km trip, in winter and his 1100 men were poorly clothed. It was ill planned and foolhardy.

Many died and many became diseased. Add in desertions and Arnold arrived with about 500 men so it is one thing to tout the will of freedom loving men but the fact is that many could not handle the stress of this trip and many just decided not to complete it.

And a brilliant victory by the British and French-Canadian militia ensued.

George
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 4:15:32 PM
The American Army at that time was inexperienced. Poorly trained, if trained at all, and poorly supplied.

Fact is, they stopped the Brits in 1776 at Valcour Island, and in 1777 stopped the Brits at Saratoga, the turning point of the American Revolution.

2 brilliant American Army and American Navy victories.

Add to that the defeat of the Brits at Fort Stanwix....and thats another invasion stopped by the Americans.

George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 5:01:42 PM
Quote:
The American Army at that time was inexperienced. Poorly trained, if trained at all, and poorly supplied.

Fact is, they stopped the Brits in 1776 at Valcour Island, and in 1777 stopped the Brits at Saratoga, the turning point of the American Revolution.

2 brilliant American Army and American Navy victories.

Add to that the defeat of the Brits at Fort Stanwix....and thats another invasion stopped by the Americans.




It was a civil war and so the British were not invading another country. From their perspective they were trying to quell unrest in their own territory.

I really wish that you were just a bit more analytical and sanguine in your approach to US history. You seen to revel in taking the mickey out of others.

How near run was this revolution? If the French had declined to lend support, would the result have been any different?. Just wondering. I don't have the answers.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 5:26:54 PM
Our Independence Day is July 4th 1776. So, were were independent when the Brits invaded the fledging country.

We call that speculation , as to what would have happened if the French had not lended support.


George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 8:37:07 PM
Quote:
Our Independence Day is July 4th 1776. So, were were independent when the Brits invaded the fledging country.

We call that speculation , as to what would have happened if the French had not lended support.




That's a bit of a specious argument.

July 4 is the declaration day. That doesn't mean that the country was recognized as independent and certainly not by the British rulers of the 13 colonies. I think that Morocco was the first country to recognize the new country but that was in 1777.

Why were the Confederate States not recognized as a country when they seceded? The US lobbied hard to make sure that that did not happen. Still Britain and France recognized the CS as belligerents. Did that legitimize the Confederate states?

I am going to suggest that the declaration of independence would have meant nothing had the British won. The 13 colonies had to win the war to validate the declaration. And of course, they did that.

The speculation on French involvement is valid because the French land forces and navy were critical to the success of the insurrection. So could the 13 colonies have won without them?
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/11/2022 9:42:40 PM
Our Independence Day is July 4th...celebrated every year. By issuing the Declaration of Independence, adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, the 13 American colonies severed their political connections to Great Britain.


A Rebellion is the term used where the object of the movement is completely to overthrow and supersede the existing government. Insurrection refers to a movement which seeks merely to effect some change of minor importance to prevent the exercise of governmental authority w/ respect to particular matters or subjects. In actuality, the American revolution was a rebellion and not an insurrection.
Phil Andrade
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 2:40:24 AM
New Zealand’s worst day : October 12th, 1917.

The New Zealand Division was repulsed in an action which epitomised all the most notorious aspects of WW1.

The fighting occurred in the Passchendaele sector of the Ypres Salient in vile conditions.

The Kiwis were cut down and large numbers were left dying in the quagmire that the battlefield had become.

The NZ Division had already suffered heavy casualties in severe fighting in the Salient eight days earlier, but on that occasion objectives had been achieved and the loss of life was attended by significant success.

This time, failure was complete and the blow devastating.

The number of New Zealand dead that day rivalled the loss that Canada was to suffer at Dieppe a generation later. But the population of New Zealand was only one million.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 6:48:46 AM
General Robert Edward Lee, the commander of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, dies at his home in Lexington, Virginia. He was 63 years old.

Lee was born to Henry Lee and Ann Carter Lee at Stratford Hall, Virginia, in 1807. His father served in the American Revolution under George Washington and was later a governor of Virginia. Robert Lee attended the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and graduated second in his class in 1829. He did not earn a single demerit during his four years at the academy. Afterward,Lee embarked on a military career, eventually fighting in the Mexican War (1846-48) and later serving as the superintendent of West Point.

When the Civil War broke out in 1861, Lee sided with the Confederacy and spent the first year of the war as an advisor to Confederate President Jefferson Davis. He assumed command of the Army of Northern Virginia when Joseph Johnston was wounded in battle in May 1862. Over the next three years, Lee earned a reputation for his brilliant tactics and battlefield leadership. However, his invasions of the North, at Antietam in Marylandand Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, ended in defeat.



After Lee surrendered his army at Appomattox Court House, Virginia, in 1865, he returned to Richmond, Virginia, and an uncertain future. With his military career over, he accepted the presidency of Washington College in Lexington, Virginia. Under his leadership, the struggling institution’s enrollment increased from a few dozen to more than 300 students. He contributed to faculty stability, revamped the curriculum and improved the physical condition of the campus. Lee suffered a stroke on September 28, 1870, and lingered for two weeks before passing. The school changed its name to Washington and Lee College soon after he died.

===============================================================================================================================================


A traitor to the United States.

George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 7:38:12 AM
Quote:
Our Independence Day is July 4th...celebrated every year. By issuing the Declaration of Independence, adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, the 13 American colonies severed their political connections to Great Britain.


A Rebellion is the term used where the object of the movement is completely to overthrow and supersede the existing government. Insurrection refers to a movement which seeks merely to effect some change of minor importance to prevent the exercise of governmental authority w/ respect to particular matters or subjects. In actuality, the American revolution was a rebellion and not an insurrection.


Thank you for those definitions. And so the insurrection in Massachusetts morphed into a full on rebellion. Would traitors to their country cover both of those distinctions.

My point NY was that a declaration means absolutely nothing unless the other side agrees. In this case, the British did not accept the declaration, nor did most of the world. The world waited to see what would happen in North America.

By winning in battle, the 13 colonies gained their independence. Without that, the declaration is meaningless.
Phil Andrade
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 8:11:31 AM
Quote:
General Robert Edward Lee, the commander of the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, dies at his home in Lexington, Virginia. He was 63 years old.




A traitor to the United States.



Does memory serve me, if I recall a comment by George Templeton Strong that was broadcast on that ground breaking TV documentary series The Civil War more than thirty years ago ?

Let me try and recite it :

I always said they should have hanged General Lee.
It’s all the worse that he was a good man of fine character. That’s the trouble with good men : they do so much harm in the world.


Did I get that right ?

Regards, Phil


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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
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