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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 10:06:30 AM
Hey Guys,

I really like how a fair amount of you have taken ownership of this thread, this day in world history! It is a great thread for continued & new discussions because of the revolving subject matter! Plus you can discuss new or past subjects on world history!?

By all means, carry on!
Regards,
MD

BTW Phil about the Kiwi's worse day, just curious were they lead by Kiwi officers?
What do you think went so horribly wrong in the attack??

Also with regards to Lee being a traitor, I believe the best course of action was taken
by the Union brain trust, to allow officers, & men to be treated in a consilatory manner!?

What say you?? Anyone?

Also today in history, in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue! Was his so called discovery of America, the beginning of the end for Native Americans?? Comments anyone?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 10:12:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hey MHO'ers,

Just bringing these undiscussed topics to the new page, for comments??

Checking 10-7, in today in history, we see these events, comments or ad your own topics from today's history? Thanks!

1765, the colonies stamp act congress meets! Did the colonies have legitimate complaints! What say you??

1780 the Patriots defeat Loyalists at the Battle of Kings Mountain! Was this a turning point in the Revolutionary War in the south? Any good websites on it, or comments??

1949 The German Democratic Republic is formed was it a true democracy!? What say you?? We notice Democratic Republic is used by other Communist Regimes, like Vietnam, Korea, China, ect!? Are they misnomers?? Comments as to why?? Anyone?

On 10-10 these 2 events happened!?

1970 Fiji gained independence from Great Britain! Back in history the Fijians had competitions with Tonga, the losers would get eaten! Seriously!? Comments?

1979 NHL Wayne Gretsky gets his 1st goal NHL goal! Was he the greatest offensive scorer in NHL history!? Anyone??

Any other events on this day in history?? Sorry getting my dates out of order!?

Regards,
MD

10-7, Also on 2001 in answer in part to 9-11 attacks the Afghan War starts! What's your perception on this? Why could no outside army defeat the Afghans? Anyone?




10-8-1871 the Great Chicago fire wipes out the city! Supposedly started by a cow! Has your city suffered from a great fire? Early on fire departments were left wanting!? Comments?

10-9 in history, the following occurred!

1635 Roger Williams banished to Rhode Island from Massachusetts Colony because of religious differences! Talk about freedom of religion!? Do you think religion is to involved in government!? What say you??

1888 the Washington Monument is dedicated! Why does it have2 types of bricks!? Anyone?

1940 Beatle John Lennon is born, why would anyone kill a musician like him?? Comments?

& 10-10 in history, the following

1845, the US Naval Academy is formed! When do you think the USN finally caught the RN, in naval dominance!?

10-12, is Columbus Day! Take a Viking to lunch!? Was Columbus's discovery the beginning of the end for Native Americans?? Anyone??

MD


Bring on some new topics! Anyone?? Here's one, in 1810 the 1st October fest is celebrated in Munich, Germany! Do think the Germans have the best beer!? If not which country does? What's your fave.? Anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 10:14:07 AM
The defeated Confederacy was treated in such a manner, that allowed the KKK and Jim Crow Legislation to take hold for 100 years. Newly freed slaves and generations of Black Americans were denied their rights under the US Constitution.

And they are still being denied their rights.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 1:49:49 PM
Quote:
1845, the US Naval Academy is formed! When do you think the USN finally caught the RN, in naval dominance!?


The USN became larger than the RN in the middle of WWII. Whether that equates to dominance, I don't know.

George
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 5:49:28 PM
The Lend-Lease Act enabled a struggling Great Britain to continue fighting against Germany virtually on its own until the United States entered World War II late in 1941. And we sold GB destroyers. Roosevelt transferred ten Lake-class Coast Guard cutters to the Royal Navy in 1941. The United States Coast Guard vessels were ten years newer than the destroyers and had greater range, which made them more useful as anti-submarine convoy escorts
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 6:51:24 PM
According to

Register of Ships of the U.S. Navy, 1775-1990: Major Combatants by K. J. Bauer (Author)
Greenwood (1991), Edition: First American Edition, 376 pages

the USN had over 160 WWI built destroyers. We didn't miss the ones we sent to Britain. The USN donations were assigned to coastal patrol duty, freeing RN gunslingers on convoy and interdiction duty.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 8:38:26 PM
Great Britain had the support of Commonwealth forces but I would agree that it and the Commonwealth nations were alone against Germany.

The transfer of the sloops and the destroyers came with a hefty price. Britain had to grant 99 year, rent free leases on British territory for the USN or USAF to use.

Bases on Newfoundland, the Bahamas, Jamaica, St. Lucia, Trinidad, Antigua, British Guiana and Bermuda were part of the deal.

This was a very good deal for the US I think, though the transfer of any vessels at that time in the war was appreciated at the other end.

At least 9 of the 50 four stackers transferred actually served with the Royal Canadian Navy. There were problems with them including limited range. The US was politely informed that the old destroyers needed refits. Shortly after, the Coast Guard cutters were transferred.

However, in late 1940 any armed vessel was better than nothing at all and so the 4 stackers filled a hole.
And a few of them served the RCN well.

EDIT: Unfortunately, some were not serviceable and were withdrawn from service.

[Read More]

Perhaps the most important part of the destroyers for bases deal was the fact that the US would assume responsibility for protection of Bermuda and would pay to expand the bases on the island. The US would provide protection and the RN could then transfer ships from this station to where they would be needed.

The deal indicated that the US would protect the western hemisphere if necessary though prior to the war FDR had already promised that the US would never stand idly by if a foreign power attacked Canadian territory.

Cheers,

George


Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/12/2022 8:52:45 PM
MD, you ask: “Also today in history, in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue! Was his so called discovery of America, the beginning of the end for Native Americans?

Since there are something like 8,000 statues to Columbus in a land he never sighted, and since he has been targeted by certain groups to carry the can for all the ills of the US, you probably already know what I’m about to say.

I assume by “Native Americans” you are talking of the indigenous peoples of what we called at the time the “New World”, from the Inuit/Aleut of the north to the Caribs to the Incans, Mayans, Aztec and other Indic folks from present-day Mexico to present-day Chile and Argentina. IIUC, only a very few groups of Caribs on certain Caribbean archipelagos. And yes, word is that he treated them badly.

Now, what constituted the old and new worlds. Where did Iceland and Greenland, for instance, both with settlements – and Iceland with a functioning government – by the early 11th century, fit in? Were Norse contacts with those places the first contacts with the New World? And how were they treated? I don’t remember any discussion of them in the Eddas. On the other hand, we have some indication of the destruction of tribes indigenous to Newfoundland, where the Norse also established a settlement.

Point is, whenever New World indigenous peoples and Europeans met, Europeans usually ended up attempting to kill their hosts. Not always, of course. the French tended to form treaties with local natives, so they would only attempt to kill tribes their allies were fighting. The Pennsylvania colonists, many of them Quakers (as Sir William Penn himself was) seemed open to friendly interactions with local indigenous tribes.

How to describe the coincident assault on native groups from Newfoundland to Argentina by Europeans from Scandinavia to Spain? I dunno. Christian intolerance? Greed? Arrogance?

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 7:06:29 AM
On October 13, 1775, the Continental Congress authorizes construction and administration of the first American naval force—the precursor to the United States Navy.

Since the outbreak of open hostilities with the British in April, little consideration had been given to protection by sea until Congress received news that a British naval fleet was on its way. In November, the Continental Navy was formally organized, and on December 22, Esek Hopkins was appointed the first commander in chief of the Continental Navy. Congress also named four captains to the new service: Dudley Saltonstall, Abraham Whipple, Nicholas Biddle and John Burroughs Hopkins. Their respective vessels, the 24-gun frigates Alfred and Columbus, the 14-gun brigs Andrew Doria and Cabot, as well as three schooners, the Hornet, the Wasp and the Fly, became the first ships of the Navy’s fleet. Five first lieutenants, including future American hero John Paul Jones, five second lieutenants and three third lieutenants also received their commissions.



Admiral Hopkins, as he was dubbed by George Washington, was first tasked with assessing the feasibility of an attack on British naval forces in the Chesapeake Bay. After sailing south with his meager force of eight ships, Hopkins decided that victory in such an encounter was impossible. He sailed to the Bahamas instead, where he attacked the British port of Nassau, a decision for which he was relieved of his command upon returning to the continent.




During the American Revolution, the Continental Navy successfully preyed on British merchant shipping and won several victories over British warships. This first naval force was disbanded after the war. What is now known as the United States Navy was formally established with the creation of the federal Department of the Navy in April 1798.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 12:47:26 PM
The Continental Navy was nearly destroyed by the RN.

The French provided support to the Continental Navy even before officially declaring an alliance.

Only 11 of 65 Continental Navy ships were left at the end of the war.

My question is whether this navy was an additional force to the fleet of privateers that plagued British shipping.

It was the French fleet and the desire of France for a little pay-back that ultimately made the difference at Yorktown.

EDIT: I found this site that describes the fate of the ships of the Continental Navy. The total number does not add up to 65 which is the number cited in a wiki article. Don't know why they don't match.

[Read More]

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 1:38:28 PM
Quote:
Hey Guys,

As previously stated, I really like how a fair amount of you have taken ownership of this thread, this day in world history! It is a great thread for continued & new discussions because of the revolving subject matter! Plus you can discuss new or past subjects on world history!? You might wonder why I do this? Well I was a history teacher, & as you know old teachers never die we just lose our class!!?? ☺

By all means, carry on!
Regards,
MD

BTW Phil about the Kiwi's worse day, just curious were they lead by Kiwi officers?
What do you think went so horribly wrong in the attack??

Also with regards to Lee being a traitor, I believe the best course of action was taken
by the Union brain trust, to allow officers, & men to be treated in a consilatory manner!? So NYG basically who am I to argue with Abraham Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, & other noted leaders!??

What say you?? Anyone?

New posts 10-11 to 10-13 comments, anyone?
10-11, below!?

1531 The Swiss Reformation is in full swing, remember William Tell, the dude with the crossbow!? Or was he just fabricated??

1899 the Boer War between Great Britain & the Afrikaners begins, who instigated this war, who was the good guy? Anyone with websites or comments??

2002 George W Bush is given Carte Blanche with regards to War with Iraq, because of 9-11!? What resulted because of this? What say you??

& on 10-12, the USS Cole was attacked by suicide bombers 17 sailors were killed!? How could this happen to a USN warship! Where is security? Anyone??

10-13, A few other notable events, below, comments??

1792 the cornerstone laid for the White house! Why would the British later try to burn it down!? Very uncivilized! Don't you think? Anyone??

1925 Margaret Thatcher is born, was she a good PM for the UK!? Why did many Irish not like her?? What's your take on how she was as a PM leader of Great Britain? including her part in the Falklands War??

1943 Italy declares war on Germany!? Say what?? I thought these 2 were the ultimate Axis buddies!? Comments, anyone!?

1946 the 4th French Republic becomes fact! What were the 1st 3?? Comments?

1972 a Uguayrian Soccer Team crashed in the Andes Mountains! How were they able to survive for months in inhospitable, lifeless terrain!? Anyone?? Wasn't there also a book or movie on it??

1988 the shroud of Turin is found by radio carbon dating, not to be Christ's burial shroud!? Just how does Radio Carbon Dating work?? Could someone post a website on how it works? Or post on it?? Anyone?

Seize the day!?
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 2:16:00 PM
Let's see now...
The US Navy stops cold an advance of British troops from Canada in 1776.

Bonhomme Richard defeats the Serapis, once the Americans began to fight.





George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 3:41:25 PM
Battle of Valcour Island 1776

The rebel army had been defeated at Québec and retreated to Fort Ticonderoga on Lake Champlain. British commander Guy Carleton built a fleet to take his men down Lake Champlain.

The nascent Continental Navy was destroyed by Guy Carleton's vessels on Lake Champlain. Led by Benedict Arnold, the rebels attempted to attack the British fleet. The RN response was heavy and severe with many rebel ships damaged.

Arnold fled toward Fort Ticonderoga and burned some of his own vessels to keep them out of British hands. The British were upset that the quarry had escaped as they were prepared to destroy it completely.

Arnold made it to Crown Point but decided that he could not defend it and he abandoned the fort to the British.

Carleton decided that it was too late in the year to continue the campaign as the winter was approaching and so he withdrew to winter quarters.

Arnold's sacrifice bought a little time and the British felt that had they had their ships ready for this fight a few weeks earlier that they could have altered the course of the rebellion.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 4:03:59 PM
Oct. 13, 1961

A political party in the province of Saskatchewan, Canada called the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (CCF) tabled a bill in the legislature to provide universal medical insurance. This was the first legislation of its kind in North America.

The leader of the CCF was a reedy voiced preacher by the name of Tommy Douglas. Tommy had spent most of his life concerned that the people were not well served by a health care system that had the potential to bankrupt them. Douglas had been planning for this moment since 1944 and when his party came to power, he had already completed the studies and the pilot projects that led him to believe that universal health care was feasible.

Doctors were averse to this legislation and upset that they would become employees of the government. They wanted to maintain status as private businessmen who would bill the government on a fee for service basis. The medical association in the province went on strike for 23 days in 1962 until Tommy Douglas' government agreed to allow them to work on a fee for service basis.

The rest is history I guess. The people in the rest of the provinces looked with envy at Saskatchewan and gradually all provinces introduced universal coverage. The plans, and there are different plans in each province, are not as comprehensive as some plans in other parts of the world but what we do have is no charge health care at the point of service.

By 1984 the federal government had enshrined the concept of universal coverage in the Canada Health Act which describes a policy that is supposed "to protect, promote and restore the physical and mental well-being of residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services without financial or other barriers."

The act also lays out the terms and responsibilities of the provinces if they wish to receive federal support for their health care programmes. That ensures some continuity across the country despite that fact that each province administers its own plan. There is no national health care plan as in the UK.


In 2004 the CBC aired a programme called "The Greatest Canadian". Not really a scientific process as the nomination process allowed for athletes and pop stars to make the long list.

But voting by the public was clear and Tommy Douglas was selected as the Canadian who has had the most profound impact on Canadian history.

Tommy Douglas, Canada's socialist Father of Universal Health Care.



To be sure there were many other Canadians who were important to our development. This populist poll however indicates the importance that Canadians attach to the concept of universal health care administered in a single payer system.

Cheers,

George




NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 4:42:06 PM
The American defense of Lake Champlain stalled British plans to reach the upper Hudson River valley. The battle-season was getting late as the first snow began to fall on October 20 and his supply line would be difficult to manage in winter, so Carleton decided to withdraw north to winter quarters; Arnold's plan of delay had succeeded.

How did that 1777 campaign to split New England from the rest of the United States work out? Arnond had something to do with that too, didn't he?
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 4:44:37 PM
Quote:
1792 the cornerstone laid for the White house! Why would the British later try to burn it down!? Very uncivilized! Don't you think? Anyone??


The American forces invaded Canada and at times were fond of burning public and private property.

On April 27, 1813, 16 US ships appeared outside the capital of Upper Canada. The town of York (now Toronto) was invaded and pillaged and public legislative buildings were burned. When the undermanned British troops decided to retreat they blew up a magazine and the explosion killed many Americans including Zebulon Pike. The British protested this form of warfare but with the death of Pike, the Americans may have sought some retributive justice.

In December of 1813 the American attempt to seize the Niagara Peninsula had gone badly. The US forces had confined themselves to Fort George which they had captured in the spring of 1813. The American commander McClure decided to leave Upper Canada once again when he heard that the British were about to attack, but also determined that it would be wise to torch the nearby town of Newark (now Niagara-on-the-Lake). They forced people from their homes and left them standing in the snow on a cold December night, in a snowstorm.

One woman in her sick bed was carried, in the bed, and plunked in the snow to watch her home burned to the ground.

Women and children including infants stood and watched as their homes were torched. One woman's infant child was baptized that night but the child died that evening in the cold before British troops arrived.

In response the British would cross the Niagara River and burn everything that they saw from Lake Ontario down to Buffalo.

And later they would torch Washington. Were they motivated by the burning at York or at Newark? Take your pick

George
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 5:30:26 PM

1792 the cornerstone laid for the White house! Why would the British later try to burn it down!? Very uncivilized! Don't you think? Anyone??

Very uncivilized! But the Brits were still upset at the loss in the American revolution.

A fledging country defeats the greatest military power in the world.




Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 9:03:41 PM
George, interesting post concerning Tommy Douglas and the CCF. The birth and growth of the CCF makes an amazing Canadian story. My parents were staunch CCFers through the 30s and 40s; only when my father moved from labouring to sales did he switch to the Liberals. It is worth noting, IMHO, that while the CCF grew into a culturally socialist party largely led by church ministers, the same can be said of the right-wing parties (Social Credit; Reform) born in western Canada, beginning at about the same time. They transferred to national politics less effectively, until Reform changed its name to Canadian Alliance (remember Stockwell Day?) and then proposed a union with the Progressive Conservatives, The result was a much more right-wing Conservative party.

I assume the pic you offer is from the 1961 convention; I’m guessing that the banner reads something like “The New Party/Convention”. I note the “peace” button on his right lapel. He’s being himself, even though I believe he was unhappy with the changes taking place as the CCF turned into the NDP. The linking of the CCF with the CLC saved the only major socialist party in Canada, but at the replacement of western-rooted cultural values with the more eastern Canadian values of unionized labour.

I am a great Tommy Douglas fan, and I was an NDP member until I too realized how different the Party became because of its union with Organized Labour. Thank god he made the jump from provincial to federal politics, so he could bring the Saskatchewan health model to federal attention. I don’t know any other politician of the time who might have carried it off.

Canadians are proud of their “universal health system”. For the most part, with reason. But the system is growing weaker and less universal, and we don’t seem to want to recognize that – perhaps drawing from Forster’s 1906 masterpiece – the machine is stopping.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/13/2022 10:07:57 PM
MD, what is your interest in the Turin Shroud?

You ask: “1988 the shroud of Turin is found by radio carbon dating, not to be Christ's burial shroud!? Just how does Radio Carbon Dating work?? Could someone post a website on how it works? Or post on it?? Anyone?

IIRC, carbon dating is a useful but limited tool which works only through certain periods of time. And – always – there was a ± factor determined by the half-life of the carbon isotope. So I’m not even sure carbon dating would be the tool that was used to date the shroud so relatively precisely.

At any rate,  I doubt any readings of the Turin shroud which don’t fit Christian acceptance will be rejected, or challenged, or consigned to the realm of miracles. Which is, to some extent, the basis of the aura of the Shroud of Turin.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6509
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 2:28:37 AM
Brian,

That fraudulent shroud has one attribute that excites my interest : it’s depiction of the wounds of crucifixion are, according to archeological evidence, accurate.

The entry point of nails into the gap between the wrist bones, for example, are consistent with the method of execution. A forgery would have gained more credence by depicting the wounds in the palms of the hand, which is how most people imagine Jesus was nailed up to the cross.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 7:33:38 AM
Over time, carbon-14 decays in predictable ways. And with the help of radiocarbon dating, researchers can use that decay as a kind of clock that allows them to peer into the past and determine absolute dates for everything from wood to food, pollen, poop, and even dead animals and humans. Creating reliable chronologies, however, is challenging, largely due to contamination from modern root systems. Radiocarbon ages derived from bulk sediments are difficult to link exactly to past environmental changes or events because they are mean ages of an unknown mix of carbon sources.

We Catholics and the Catholic Church neither formally endorses nor rejects the shroud, and in 2013 Pope Francis referred to it as an "icon of a man scourged and crucified". Like the Rosary, it can be used to focus and concentrate on our prayers.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 11:42:10 AM
Quote:
MD, what is your interest in the Turin Shroud?


You ask: 1988 the shroud of Turin is found by radio carbon dating, not to be Christ's burial shroud!? Just how does Radio Carbon Dating work?? Could someone post a website on how it works? Or post on it?? Anyone? IIRC, carbon dating is a useful but limited tool which works only through certain periods of time. And – always – there was a ± factor determined by the half-life of the carbon isotope. So I’m not even sure carbon dating would be the tool that was used to date the shroud so relatively precisely.[/span]

Hi Brian,

My interest is 2 fold,

1. Could the shroud possibly be in the time frame of Christ's life?

2. How does Radio carbon dating actually work? Is it an accurate measurement of historical time frame??

That's it!
Cheers,
MD

BTW Phil, & NYG, in part answered these points! Still not totally answered?? Any other opinions??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 12:03:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey Guys,

As previously stated, some events not commented on yet!?

New posts 10-11 to 10-14 comments, anyone?
10-11, below!?

1531 The Swiss Reformation is in full swing, remember William Tell, the dude with the crossbow!? Or was he just fabricated??

1899 the Boer War between Great Britain & the Afrikaners begins, who instigated this war, who was the good guy? Anyone with websites or comments??

2002 George W Bush is given Carte Blanche with regards to War with Iraq, because of 9-11!? What resulted because of this? What say you??

& on 10-12, the USS Cole was attacked by suicide bombers 17 sailors were killed!? How could this happen to a USN warship! Where is security? Anyone??

10-13, A few other notable events, below, comments??

1925 Margaret Thatcher is born, was she a good PM for the UK!? Why did many Irish not like her?? What's your take on how she was as a PM leader of Great Britain? including her part in the Falklands War??

1943 Italy declares war on Germany!? Say what?? I thought these 2 were the ultimate Axis buddies!? Comments, anyone!?

1946 the 4th French Republic becomes fact! What were the 1st 3?? Comments?

1972 a Uguayrian Soccer Team crashed in the Andes Mountains! How were they able to survive for months in inhospitable, lifeless terrain!? Anyone?? Wasn't there also a book or movie on it??

Checking 10-14 in history, as NYG posted, in 1066 the battle of Hastings, decides in part, the future of England!
Saxons verse Normans, How did the invaders win?? Anyone?

1644 William Penn founds the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania! Just what is a Commonwealth compared to just a state or colony? What say you?? How many states are also Commonwealths?? Anyone?

1806 Napoleon wins the Battle of Jena! Did he have a method to win most battles in this timeframe?? What was his strategy? It seems in future battles other commanders like RE Lee used it?? Comments??

1926 Winnie the Pooh, is created! My kids have always like this classic! Now it's my Grand Kids who are being introduced!? History repeating itself!? ☺

1944 the Desert Fox Erwin Rommel is forced to take his own life! Why did Hitler kill off his best generals? (88 of them) was he his own worst enemy?? Was he somewhat mad!? Did he have both orrs in the water? Was he dealing with A full deck? Was he all there?? Were his lights on but nobody was home? What kind of fruitcake was he? Anyone?????

1947 test pilot, Chuck Yeager breaks the sound barrier! Could some one explain the science behind this?? Comments?

1964 MLK Jr is very active in Civil Rights using peaceful means! Why even today has this been unsuccessful? Just what is the drawback to delaying equality? Specifically, if you could pinpoint it? Just what group is holding equality back??? What say you?? Comments anyone??

Peace, & Seize the day!?
Regards,
MD

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6509
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 1:51:27 PM
The Turin Shroud had been exposed as a fake, IMHO.

Whoever made it must have possessed hair raising knowledge of the wounds of crucifixion.

Perhaps some man - voluntarily or otherwise- actually underwent the horrific ordeal in order to provide what looked like an authentic relic.

I can believe that in the Apocalyptic fervour of medieval times, such a ruse was resorted to in order to further the status of some religious order : the Templars come to mind.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 8:22:31 PM
Hi Phil,

There seems to be a fair amount of biblical archeologists out there! Trying to prove things like the Arc of the Covenant, Noah's Ark, Shroud of Turin, just look at all.the Raiders of the lost Ark type of movies, & documentaries on them too!?

Just what are they trying to prove??
MD

BTW Appreciate all of you that are posting today's history on this thread!!? It makes for easy concise discussions !!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/14/2022 8:32:17 PM
Quote:
Over time, carbon-14 decays in predictable ways. And with the help of radiocarbon dating, researchers can use that decay as a kind of clock that allows them to peer into the past and determine absolute dates for everything from wood to food, pollen, poop, and even dead animals and humans. Creating reliable chronologies, however, is challenging, largely due to contamination from modern root systems. Radiocarbon ages derived from bulk sediments are difficult to link exactly to past environmental changes or events because they are mean ages of an unknown mix of carbon sources.

We Catholics and the Catholic Church neither formally endorses nor rejects the shroud, and in 2013 Pope Francis referred to it as an "icon of a man scourged and crucified". Like the Rosary, it can be used to focus and concentrate on our prayers.


Hi NYG,

Nice points on Radio Carbon Dating! Thanks for that!
What do you think? Is there a movement out there to prove Christianity,
by using history, .discovery, & facts? rather than just faith??

What say y'all? Anyone?
& Keep the faith!
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6509
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 1:51:57 AM
Faith is the crucial thing. “ Crucial “ being the appropriate word, since it alludes to a cross .

That shroud is not the garment that wrapped the body of Jesus : to insist otherwise strikes me as pure denial.

But, in my opinion, it is a genuine relic of suffering and an attempt to replicate the ordeal of Jesus, and, as such , a testament of faith, and worthy of respect and , I daresay, even reverence.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 7:59:31 AM
On October 15, 1863, the H.L. Hunley, the world’s first successful combat submarine, sinks during a test run, killing its inventor and seven crew members.

Horace Lawson Hunley developed the 40-foot submarine from a cylinder boiler. It was operated by a crew of eight—one person steered while the other seven turned a crank that drove the ship’s propeller. The Hunley could dive, but it required calm seas for safe operations. It was tested successfully in Alabama’s Mobile Bay in the summer of 1863, and Confederate commander General Pierre G.T. Beauregard recognized that the vessel might be useful to ram Union ships and break the blockade of Charleston Harbor. The Hunley was placed on a railcar and shipped to South Carolina.

The submarine experienced problems upon its arrival. During a test run, a crew member became tangled in part of the craft’s machinery and the craft dove with its hatch open; only two men survived the accident. The ship was raised and repaired, but it was difficult to find another crew that was willing to assume the risk of operating the submarine. Its inventor and namesake stepped forward to restore confidence in his creation. On October 15, he took the submarine into Charleston Harbor for another test. In front of a crowd of spectators, the Hunley slipped below the surface and did not reappear. Horace Hunley and his entire crew perished.

Another willing crew was assembled and the Hunley went back into the water. On February 17, 1864, the ship headed out of Charleston Harbor and approached the U.S.S. Housatonic. The Hunley struck a torpedo into the Yankee ship and then backed away before the explosion. The Housatonicsank in shallow water, and the Hunley became the first submarine to sink a ship in battle. However, its first successful mission was also its last—the Hunley sank before it returned to Charleston, taking yet another crew down with it. The vessel was raised in 2000, and is now on exhibit in Charleston.​
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 8:03:30 AM
Evidently, if you study the actual shroud, the weave of the material does not date form the time of Jesus.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 9:19:22 AM
Quote:
On October 15, 1863, the H.L. Hunley, the world’s first successful combat submarine, sinks during a test run, killing its inventor and seven crew members.

Horace Lawson Hunley developed the 40-foot submarine from a cylinder boiler. It was operated by a crew of eight—one person steered while the other seven turned a crank that drove the ship’s propeller. The Hunley could dive, but it required calm seas for safe operations. It was tested successfully in Alabama’s Mobile Bay in the summer of 1863, and Confederate commander General Pierre G.T. Beauregard recognized that the vessel might be useful to ram Union ships and break the blockade of Charleston Harbor. The Hunley was placed on a railcar and shipped to South Carolina.

The submarine experienced problems upon its arrival. During a test run, a crew member became tangled in part of the craft’s machinery and the craft dove with its hatch open; only two men survived the accident. The ship was raised and repaired, but it was difficult to find another crew that was willing to assume the risk of operating the submarine. Its inventor and namesake stepped forward to restore confidence in his creation. On October 15, he took the submarine into Charleston Harbor for another test. In front of a crowd of spectators, the Hunley slipped below the surface and did not reappear. Horace Hunley and his entire crew perished.

Another willing crew was assembled and the Hunley went back into the water. On February 17, 1864, the ship headed out of Charleston Harbor and approached the U.S.S. Housatonic. The Hunley struck a torpedo into the Yankee ship and then backed away before the explosion. The Housatonicsank in shallow water, and the Hunley became the first submarine to sink a ship in battle. However, its first successful mission was also its last—the Hunley sank before it returned to Charleston, taking yet another crew down with it. The vessel was raised in 2000, and is now on exhibit in Charleston.​


Guys,

I have had the good fortune of meeting author Clive Cussler who with his group claims to have raised the CSS Huntley out of Charleston Harbor! But there is some controversy over that!? This 1st Sub certainly cost the Confederacy lives, sinking multiple times, with crews!?

What say you?
Regards,
MD
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NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 9:59:35 AM
The most important thing is the Hunley was found and is being studied by marine archeologists.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 10:15:12 AM
Once you bring a hard science, like Geology, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, Geography and Medicine into the study of the Civil war, or any war, you are elevating the level of the discussion.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 1:45:09 PM
Was there a war before the ACW where aerial observers influence the progress of battles?
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 2:36:03 PM
Quote:
Was there a war before the ACW where aerial observers influence the progress of battles?


Yes, during the battles of the French revolution.

I looked this up but apparently the first observation balloon was sent up by the French Aerostatic Corps in 1794, Battle of Fleurus

And it is on display in a museum in Austria.

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
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This day in World History! Continued
10/15/2022 10:05:26 PM
Guys,

Despite the uniqueness of the uses of hot air gallons in 18th century Europe, & the Civil War. You don't hear to much about them during these battles!? I guess Abraham Lincoln was taken in by them, & wanted an expanded role for the Union Army using them!? Any websites, texts, or articles on them? Larry? Or anyone??

The Union Airforce??
MD
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NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 7:18:45 AM
On October 16, 1854, an obscure lawyer and Congressional hopeful from the state of Illinois named Abraham Lincoln delivers a speech regarding the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which Congress had passed five months earlier. In his speech, the future president denounced the act and outlined his views on slavery, which he called “immoral.”

Under the terms of the Kansas-Nebraska Act, two new territories—Kansasand Nebraska—would be allowed into the Union and each territory’s citizens would be given the power to determine whether slavery would be allowed within the territory’s borders. It was believed that the act would set a precedent for determining the legality of slavery in other new territories. Controversy over the act influenced political races across the country that fall. Abolitionists, like Lincoln, hoped to convince lawmakers in the new territories to reject slavery.

​Lincoln, who was practicing law at the time, campaigned on behalf of abolitionist Republicans in Illinois and attacked the Kansas-Nebraska Act. He denounced members of the Democratic Party for backing a law that “assumes there can be moral right in the enslaving of one man by another.” He believed that the law went against the founding American principle that “all men are created equal.” Lincoln was an abolitionist at heart, but he realized that the outlawing of slavery in states where it already existed might lead to civil war. Instead, he advocated outlawing the spread of slavery to new states. He hoped this plan would preserve the Union and slowly eliminate slavery by confining it to the South, where, he believed, “it would surely die a slow death.”

Lincoln and his fellow abolitionists were dismayed when Kansans voted a pro-slavery candidate into Congress in November. As Lincoln’s political career picked up momentum over the next several years, he continually referred to the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the seeming inevitability that Kansas should become a slave state as “a violence…it was conceived in violence, passed in violence, is maintained in violence, and is being executed in violence.”

Lincoln continued to actively campaign against slavery in Kansas and helped to raise money to support anti-slavery candidates in that state. Meanwhile he continued his law practice and ran for the U.S. Senate in 1859. Although he lost to Democrat Stephen Douglas, Lincoln began to make a name for himself in national politics and earned increasing support from the North and abolitionists across the nation. It was this constituency that helped him win the presidency in 1860.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 7:42:10 AM
Quote:
On October 16, 1854, an obscure lawyer and Congressional hopeful from the state of Illinois named Abraham Lincoln delivers a speech regarding the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which Congress had passed five months earlier. In his speech, the future president denounced the act and outlined his views on slavery, which he called “immoral.”

Under the terms of the Kansas-Nebraska Act, two new territories—Kansasand Nebraska—would be allowed into the Union and each territory’s citizens would be given the power to determine whether slavery would be allowed within the territory’s borders. It was believed that the act would set a precedent for determining the legality of slavery in other new territories. Controversy over the act influenced political races across the country that fall. Abolitionists, like Lincoln, hoped to convince lawmakers in the new territories to reject slavery.

​Lincoln, who was practicing law at the time, campaigned on behalf of abolitionist Republicans in Illinois and attacked the Kansas-Nebraska Act. He denounced members of the Democratic Party for backing a law that “assumes there can be moral right in the enslaving of one man by another.” He believed that the law went against the founding American principle that “all men are created equal.” Lincoln was an abolitionist at heart, but he realized that the outlawing of slavery in states where it already existed might lead to civil war. Instead, he advocated outlawing the spread of slavery to new states. He hoped this plan would preserve the Union and slowly eliminate slavery by confining it to the South, where, he believed, “it would surely die a slow death.”

Lincoln and his fellow abolitionists were dismayed when Kansans voted a pro-slavery candidate into Congress in November. As Lincoln’s political career picked up momentum over the next several years, he continually referred to the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the seeming inevitability that Kansas should become a slave state as “a violence…it was conceived in violence, passed in violence, is maintained in violence, and is being executed in violence.”

Lincoln continued to actively campaign against slavery in Kansas and helped to raise money to support anti-slavery candidates in that state. Meanwhile he continued his law practice and ran for the U.S. Senate in 1859. Although he lost to Democrat Stephen Douglas, Lincoln began to make a name for himself in national politics and earned increasing support from the North and abolitionists across the nation. It was this constituency that helped him win the presidency in 1860.


NYGiant, I think that you should cite sources if you are going to cut and past articles. Personally, I would enjoy reading your own words on a topic. These cut and paste jobs don't usually get a big response.

[Read More]
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 10:01:42 AM
Now George,

It could still have just been just a wild coincidence? Also he could claim what a lot of people are doing these days! Claim the 5th!! ? ☺

Here is 10-16's just some of the events for today's history!??

1793 today in history Marie Antoinette was guillotined! One time a person who was about to be killed in this manner agree to blink his eyes after the blade fell, it is said the guy blinked 30 times!! It happened in 1905? What say you? Is that morbid or what?? Also why would lady Marie face such a thing?? Anyone?

1758 Noah Webster, the dictionary guy was born! Is his the 1st, & most popular dictionary?? Comments?

1813 Napoleon wins the battle of Liepzig! What was his strategy? Why is he considered a military genius? Anyone?

1846 Mr Green discovers ether as an anesthetic! Why wasn't it used more often in the Civil War!?? What say you??

1859, today, John Brown's raid & capture of the Federal Arsenal at Harper's Ferry! How could he capture it with such a small force? Was Brown a man to be admired or a terrorist!? Anyone?

1946, 10 of 12 Nazi leaders at the Nurnberg Trials were executed! Any other noted Nazis escape being convicted!?? Comments? What proof is there that many made it to Argentina!?
What say you??

1964, Communist China now has the A Bomb! Are them, or the Russians the biggest threat to use it?? Scary!?

1968 3 African Americans at the Olympics ceremony use the black power salute!? Were they justified in doing it? Anyone??

BTW way back when NYG 1st began posting I clearly stated I'm using Encyclopedia Britannica.

Carry on,
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 10:04:58 AM
Have you asked where MD gets his list? That source is not cited either.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 10:21:15 AM
Hi NYG,

Encyclopedia Britannica, I have stated it several times, it's a good non US source! I also add my own comments to most events.See my last post.

Peace,
MD

BTW, I was just messing with you... ☺
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