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NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 11:03:09 AM
Ok..I get my stuff from This Day In History.

There! I stated it.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 11:05:32 AM
Quote:
1813 Napoleon wins the battle of Liepzig! What was his strategy? Why is he considered a military genius? Anyone?


MD,

Napoleon lost the battle of Leipzig.

Trevor

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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 11:27:54 AM
Quote:
Just bringing today's events to current page! Have at them!

Here is 10-16's just some of the events for today's history!??

1793 today in history Marie Antoinette was guillotined! One time a person who was about to be killed in this manner agree to blink his eyes after the blade fell, it is said the guy blinked 30 times!! It happened in 1905? What say you? Is that morbid or what?? Also why would lady Marie face such a thing?? Anyone?

1758 Noah Webster, the dictionary guy was born! Is his the 1st, & most popular dictionary?? Comments?

1813 Napoleon's opponents win the battle of Liepzig, right Trevor! ☺ But, What was his strategy in losing? Did his adversaries, learn to counter his plans!? Anyone?

1846 Mr Green discovers ether as an anesthetic! Why wasn't it used more often in the Civil War!?? What say you??

1859, today, John Brown's raid & capture of the Federal Arsenal at Harper's Ferry! How could he capture it with such a small force? Was Brown a man to be admired or a terrorist!? Anyone?

1946, 10 of 12 Nazi leaders at the Nurnberg Trials were executed! Any other noted Nazis escape being convicted!?? Comments? What proof is there that many made it to Argentina!?
What say you??

1964, Communist China now has the A Bomb! Are them, or the Russians the biggest threat to use it?? Scary!?

1968 3 African Americans at the Olympics ceremony use the black power salute!? Were they justified in doing it? Anyone??

Of course, I'm using Encyclopedia Britannica. as our source for today's & tomorrows, events!!

Carry on,
Regards,
MD


BTW, Thanks Trevor, so much for the obvious correction, for Napoleon being a military genius!? & me being a Napoleonic expert?? ☺☺
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 12:05:10 PM
1846 Mr Green discovers ether as an anesthetic! Why wasn't it used more often in the Civil War!?? What say you??

Actually both ether and chloroform were used in the American Civil War, with about 90% of those undergoing a procedure, receiving an anesthetic. Those who administered the anesthesia preferred chloroform because it was accepted by the patient with a smoother induction. Ether was flammable, but it usually required a few orderlies to hold the patient down as he want through the 2nd stage of anesthesia. Chloroform is a halogenated hydrocarbon that, unlike ether, is not flammable but has significant toxicity, including carcinogenicity, hepato-, and nephrotoxicity.

Chloroform is a cardiac depressant was more lethal than ether, which stimulated the lungs and the heart.

So, in the movie..."She Wore a Yellow Ribbon", the trooper is administering chloroform to Corporal Quayne as Dr O'Laughlin probes a wound for a bullet, all under candle-light.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
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This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 9:33:59 PM
Quote:
Battle of Valcour Island 1776

The rebel army had been defeated at Québec and retreated to Fort Ticonderoga on Lake Champlain. British commander Guy Carleton built a fleet to take his men down Lake Champlain.

The nascent Continental Navy was destroyed by Guy Carleton's vessels on Lake Champlain. Led by Benedict Arnold, the rebels attempted to attack the British fleet. The RN response was heavy and severe with many rebel ships damaged.

Arnold fled toward Fort Ticonderoga and burned some of his own vessels to keep them out of British hands. The British were upset that the quarry had escaped as they were prepared to destroy it completely.

Arnold made it to Crown Point but decided that he could not defend it and he abandoned the fort to the British.

Carleton decided that it was too late in the year to continue the campaign as the winter was approaching and so he withdrew to winter quarters.

Arnold's sacrifice bought a little time and the British felt that had they had their ships ready for this fight a few weeks earlier that they could have altered the course of the rebellion.




Hi George,

There certainly a lot of warfare, in & around Lake Champlain!? More than I ever realized! I have visited the area, even took the ferry across it from Burlington, VT. to Plattsburgh, NY. It seems this area was a key route between Canada, (British NA.) & the Atlantic seaboard of the US, & or Colonies!? Involving 2 wars, the Revolutionary, & War of 1812!? Is that how you see it??

What say you about its importance as A key throughfare!?
Wonder how many Warships are at the bottom of the Lake??
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/16/2022 9:57:57 PM
Hi Brian,

Look for my ## replies, & comment ?

Quote:
MD, you ask: Also today in history, in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue! Was his so called discovery of America, the beginning of the end for Native Americans? (## = Daves replies!)

Since there are something like 8,000 statues to Columbus in a land he never sighted, and since he has been targeted by certain groups to carry the can for all the ills of the US, you probably already know what I’m about to say!?

## Gee Bri @8,000 statues of Columbus! They are tearing down all the Confederate statues, because of slavery!? It would only be fair to tear down Columbus, because of treatment of NA Natives! don't you think??

I assume by “Native Americans” you are talking of the indigenous peoples of what we called at the time the “New World”, from the Inuit/Aleut of the north to the Caribs to the Incans, Mayans, Aztec and other Indic folks from present-day Mexico to present-day Chile and Argentina. IIUC, only a very few groups of Caribs on certain Caribbean archipelagos. And yes, word is that he treated them badly.

## I agree! & Yes, I was referring to all NA Natives!

Now, what constituted the old and new worlds. Where did Iceland and Greenland, for instance, both with settlements – and Iceland with a functioning government – by the early 11th century, fit in? Were Norse contacts with those places the first contacts with the New World? And how were they treated? I don’t remember any discussion of them in the Eddas. On the other hand, we have some indication of the destruction of tribes indigenous to Newfoundland, where the Norse also established a settlement.

## The Norse were the 1st Europeans? Do you agree?? & yes Greenland is part of the New World!? Not sure about Iceland?? Anyone??

Point is, whenever New World indigenous peoples and Europeans met, Europeans usually ended up attempting to kill their hosts.

## Amen! That is why today they have their own laws, casinos, territory ect.!!? Do you think White N. America is being made to make reparations to the Indians??

Not always, of course. the French tended to form treaties with local natives, so they would only attempt to kill tribes their allies were fighting. The Pennsylvania colonists, many of them Quakers (as Sir William Penn himself was) seemed open to friendly interactions with local indigenous tribes.

## A few instances of fairness! Not near enouph!

How to describe the coincident assault on native groups from Newfoundland to Argentina by Europeans from Scandinavia to Spain? I dunno. Christian intolerance? Greed? Arrogance?

##Again, your absolutely right!
Thanks for the points well taken!

Cheers,
MD

Sorry Bri., that I was so late responding to your post!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 7:14:17 AM
British general and playwright John Burgoyne surrenders 5,000 British and Hessian troops to American General Horatio Gates at Saratoga, New York, on October 17, 1777.

In the summer of 1777, General Burgoyne led an army of 8,000 men south through New York in an effort to join forces with British General Sir William Howe’s troops along the Hudson River. After capturing several forts, Burgoyne’s force camped near Saratoga while a larger Patriot army under General Gates gathered just four miles away. On September 19, a British advance column marched out and engaged the Patriot force at the Battle of Freeman’s Farm, or the First Battle of Saratoga. Failing to break through the American lines, Burgoyne’s force retreated. On October 7, another British reconnaissance force was repulsed by an American force under General Benedict Arnold in the Battle of Bemis Heights, also known as the Second Battle of Saratoga.

Burgoyne retreated north to the village of Saratoga with his 5,000 surviving troops. By October 13, some 20,000 Americans had surrounded the British, and four days later Burgoyne was forced to agree to the first large-scale surrender of British forces in the Revolutionary War.

Burgoyne successfully negotiated that his surviving men would be returned to Britain by pledging that they would never again serve in North America. The nearly 6,000-man army was kept in captivity at great expense to the Continental Congress until the end of the war.

Soon after word of the Patriot victory at Saratoga reached France, King Louis XVI agreed to recognize the independence of the United States and French Foreign Minister Charles Gravier, Count de Vergennes, made arrangements with U.S. Ambassador Benjamin Franklin to begin providing formal French aid to the Patriot cause. This assistance was crucial to the eventual American victory in the Revolutionary War.​
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A pristine battle field to visit. A number of years ago, I did a trip of the entire Northern Campaign by myself , starting at Valcour Island, and then visiting Crown Point. Fort Ticonderoga, Skenesborough, Hubbardton, Bennington, Saratoga and the site with he Burgoyne and his British Army surrendered.

The high ground which the Polish military engineer , Thaddeus Kosciusko fortified is a nice site as you can see how Bemis Heights dominated the road to Albany. Also honored at Saratoga is Timothy Murphy , who changed the course of the war by mortally wounds British General Frasier, turning the battle in favor of the Americans.

We also visited the grave site of Jenny McCrea.


Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 9:31:20 AM
Hey guys,

Wasn't British General Johnny Burgoyne referred to as Gentleman? How did he get that tag!? Also was it at this time that the Patriots started targeting officers??

Regards,
MD

BTW Does anyone have a good website on this vital victory for the Patriots? Is it possible if the British had won that they also would have won the war?? What say you?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 9:38:03 AM
It was because of the way he treated and led his men in the 7 years War.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 9:41:48 AM
Hey MHO,

BTW Does anyone have a good website on this vital victory for the Patriots? Is it possible if the British had won that they also would have won the war?? What say you?

Cheers,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
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This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 10:17:04 AM
Quote:
Hey MHO,

BTW Does anyone have a good website on this vital victory for the Patriots? Is it possible if the British had won that they also would have won the war?? What say you?

Cheers,
MD


The best books on this subject are:
1. Saratoga by Robert Ketchum
2. The Saratoga Campaign by William Griswold and Donald Linebaugh
3. Compleat Victory by Kenneth Weddle

The British were not going to win. Logistically, the supply line was just too long to feed the Army so deep in American territory. The winter was coming. The Indians had abandoned their allies. THIS battle was the turning point the American war for Independence.

And the position could not be turned.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 6:59:15 PM
Guys

Richard M. Ketchum is an excellent author on the Revolutionary War, I believe he has over 1/2 dozen books on various aspects & battles! This one Ketchum points out how Saratoga was the turning point not only the victory but the bring in of the French as an Ally! Probably without which the Patriots may not have prevailed!?

What say you?
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/17/2022 7:57:42 PM
Well...smile....my Dad and Mom told me that Saratoga was the turning point in the war because one Irishman and one Pole were there. If there had been 2 Irishmen and 2 Poles the war would have ended right there at Saratoga. It always made for a nice family story.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 6:53:50 AM
On October 18, 1767, Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon complete their survey of the boundary between the colonies of Pennsylvania and Marylandas well as areas that would eventually become the states of Delaware and West Virginia. The Penn and Calvert families had hired Mason and Dixon, English surveyors, to settle their dispute over the boundary between their two proprietary colonies, Pennsylvania and Maryland.

In 1760, tired of border violence between the colonies’ settlers, the British crown demanded that the parties involved hold to an agreement reached in 1732. As part of Maryland and Pennsylvania’s adherence to this royal command, Mason and Dixon were asked to determine the exact whereabouts of the boundary between the two colonies. Though both colonies claimed the area between the 39th and 40th parallel, what is now referred to as the Mason-Dixon line finally settled the boundary at a northern latitude of 39 degrees and 43 minutes. The line was marked using stones, with Pennsylvania’s crest on one side and Maryland’s on the other.

When Mason and Dixon began their endeavor in 1763, colonists were protesting the Proclamation of 1763, which was intended to prevent colonists from settling beyond the Appalachians and angering Native Americans. As the Britons concluded their survey in 1767, the colonies were engaged in a dispute with the Parliament over the Townshend Acts, which were designed to raise revenue for the empire by taxing common imports including tea.

Twenty years later, in late 1700s, the states south of the Mason-Dixon line would begin arguing for the perpetuation of slavery in the new United States while those north of line hoped to phase out the ownership of human chattel. This period, which historians consider the era of “The New Republic,” drew to a close with the Missouri Compromise of 1820, which accepted the states south of the line as slave-holding and those north of the line as free. The compromise, along with those that followed it, eventually failed.

One hundred years after Mason and Dixon began their effort to chart the boundary, soldiers from opposite sides of the line let their blood stain the fields of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, in the Southern states’ final and fatal attempt to breach the Mason-Dixon line during the Civil War. One hundred and one years after the Britons completed their line, the United States finally admitted men of any complexion born within the nation to the rights of citizenship with the ratification of the 14th Amendment.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 12:10:46 PM
Quote:
In 1760, tired of border violence between the colonies’ settlers, the British crown demanded that the parties involved hold to an agreement reached in 1732. As part of Maryland and Pennsylvania’s adherence to this royal command, Mason and Dixon were asked to determine the exact whereabouts of the boundary between the two colonies.


What types of violence had occurred between the colonists in Maryland and Pennsylvania? I am curious because there was a war on, the French and Indian Wars.

Plagued by the French and their Indian allies, the colonists had demanded protection from the British. In response the British had spent considerable blood and money to eliminate French influence in North America. In 1759, James Wolfe had defeated Montcalm on the Plains of Abraham in Québec.

In 1760, the French defeated the British in Québec at the Battle of St. Foy. Under siege the British were pleased to see the RN appear in the spring when the ice went out and France surrendered New France to Great Britain shortly after.

So were these intercolonial conflicts ongoing during the French and Indian Wars or did they begin after the French had been defeated?

Quote:
When Mason and Dixon began their endeavor in 1763, colonists were protesting the Proclamation of 1763, which was intended to prevent colonists from settling beyond the Appalachians and angering Native Americans.


This is not the whole story. The British had to find a way to administer to their new colonies taken from France. Their idea was that they would assimilate the French. And the Royal Proclamation codified the means to do that. It established that a British governor would be appointed and that British criminal and civil law would prevail. Assimilation failed and the British changed course in 1774 with the introduction of the Québec Act which restored French Civil law to the colony and provided other language rights and religious rights. It also expanded the size of the colony into the territory that the Royal Proclamation had ceded to the First Nations.

And so it set up four different governments; one for Québec, one for East Florida, one for West Florida and one for Grenada. And so the boundaries of Quebec were defined in the Proclamation.

But the proclamation was made while the French and Indian War was still on. Britain had another problem that needed attention and that was the pacification of the First Nations many of whom had been allies of the French.

There were a lot of them and they were angry. Their ally France had been defeated and they wanted the British to leave the territory that had been theirs and that of the French. Under Pontiac, the First Nations tribes attacked British forts around the Great Lakes. They killed a lot of soldiers and colonists who had a desire to move there. They occupied forts now owned by the British.

Pacification through the destruction of all of the tribes would have been costly in terms of money and blood. Britain had spent a fortune in fighting the 7 Years War of which the French and Indian war was a part. And so the British opted for diplomacy hoping to win the hearts and minds of the former First Nations' allies of the French.

So they granted territory to the FN. King George III reserved lands to the west of the Alleghenies for what the Proclamation called, "several nations or tribes of Indians".

I want to emphasize how important this document was to the First Nations. The Royal Proclamation is still cited in Canada whenever land disputes between indigenous people and the government of Canada arise. So important is the document is that FN groups have called it the "Indian Magna Carta".

The proclamation detailed how negotiations with First Nations should take place. A format was provided. The Supreme Court of Canada has determined that the principles behind the Royal Proclamation with respect to the First Nations is still applicable.

Now here is where conflict with some of the 13 colonists began. The Proclamation said that an FN could sell its land but only to the crown and only at a public meeting convened for the purpose of discussion of the sale. Sales to private individuals or colonies was prohibited.

This of course upset the colonists, many of whom were among the wealthy and influential and were land speculators. I believe that George Washington was among those.

The Royal Proclamation of 1763 was not simply about the prevention of 13 colonists from expansion into the Ohio Valley. It also had to do with pacification of the First Nations and treating with them to make them allies of Britain. This hopefully would have stopped the conflicts between the FN and the colonists. The colonists didn't see it that way of course.

George



Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 12:16:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Recent history topics

Here is 10-16's just some of the events for today's history!??

1793 In history Marie Antoinette was guillotined! One time a person who was about to be killed in this manner agree to blink his eyes after the blade fell, it is said the guy blinked 30 times!! It happened in 1905? What say you? Is that morbid or what?? Also why would lady Marie face such a thing?? Anyone?

1758 Noah Webster, the dictionary guy was born! Is his the 1st, & most popular dictionary?? Comments?

1859, today, John Brown's raid & capture of the Federal Arsenal at Harper's Ferry! How could he capture it with such a small force? Was Brown a man to be admired or a terrorist!? Anyone?

1946, 10 of 12 Nazi leaders at the Nurnberg Trials were executed! Any other noted Nazis escape being convicted!?? Comments? What proof is there that many made it to Argentina!?
What say you??

1964, Communist China now has the A Bomb! Are them, or the Russians the biggest threat to use it?? Scary!?

1968 3 African Americans at the Olympics ceremony use the black power salute!? Were they justified in doing it? Anyone??

& as always, I'm using Encyclopedia Britannica. as our source for today's & tomorrows, events!!

Carry on,
Regards,
MD

10-17 in history,

2018, Marijuana for recreational purposes is legal in Canada!? Has Canada always been liberal in this regard??

1979 Mother Teresa wins the Nobel peace Prize! Did she deserve it? & can or should a nun be able to win it?? What say you? Anyone??

10-18 in history, check out these events!? New comments? Anyone?

1469 Isabel 1, Married Ferdinand II, Spain had quite the leadership to explorev-& claim new lands!? Comments on how Spain gained so much territory!??

1851 Herman Melville writes Moby Dick, one of the most read adventure novels of all time!? What say you??

1898 Puerto Rico is turned over to the US! Was it by treaty or force!? What say you??

1931 Thomas Edison dies! What were some of his best inventions & achievements is he responsible for? Anyone?

1931 Al Capone is off all things, convicted of tax evasion! Maybe history will repeat itself??

1919, Pierre E Trudeau is born! What effect did he & his family have on Canada's leadership!? Commrnts, maybe from our Canadian posters!?? A lil help here!?

Sieze the day!
MD


BTW All I have to say about the famous line dividing north ,& south is, "Mr Mason & Mr. Dixon, meet Mr Smith, & Mr. Wesson"!? "Civil War here we come"!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 1:00:34 PM
Both the Calverts and the Penns who were given the land that became Maryland and Pennsylvania , How ever a dispute arose along the 40th parallel along the southern border of Pennsylvania. To bolster their claims, each encouraged settlement by German farmers and disputes arose about who was paying the taxes and to whom..the Penns or the Calverts.n And that led to violence. When tenants refused to pay taxes, sheriffs were sent out to enforce the law.

Mason and Dixon arrived int eh colonies on November 15th, 1763. And it took them 5 yers to complete their work.

A book to read about this is...".Walkin' the Line" by William Ecenbarger
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 3:13:47 PM
Quote:
1898 Puerto Rico is turned over to the US! Was it by treaty or force!? What say you??


The US had defeated Spain in the Spanish-American War which ended in Dec. of 1898.

The US invaded Puerto Rico prior to the end of the war with thousands of troops.

Spain had already granted some freedoms to its colonies because it was stretched in trying to keep control of them. Still, the Americans landed and told the Puerto Ricans that they were free and that the US was the liberator.

The USN sailed to Puerto Rico and bombed the capital. When troops landed they subdued the Spanish soldiers quite quickly. The US claimed that they were welcomed with open arms but that isn't quite true.

Must were happy to see the end of Spanish rule but the Puerto Ricans were excited about the independent legislature that had been established when Spain was trying to be conciliatory toward its colonies. The US changed the currency to USD and that upset some Puerto Ricans too who saw their way of life being altered by US changes to things like money and government.

Today the relationship between Puerto Rico and the US seems a little strained. Has it always been that way? Is the population too small to warrant statehood and could Puerto Rico accept the financial responsibilities of statehood?

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 4:34:56 PM
George,

Do you have a website or text supporting these contentions??

Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 5:31:34 PM
I was stationed in PR in the late '70s. A vote was held asking if the island should be independent or granted statehood. 2% of the population voted in that election.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 6:25:55 PM
MD: Quote:
1979 Mother Teresa wins the Nobel peace Prize! Did she deserve it?

Although it is seen as one of the most prestigious of awards, any Nobel is determined by the deliberations of a private group of thinkers. So, whether she deserved it or not, Mother Teresa gained the prize!

Her specific work may have originally been relatively local, but her reputation and influence had spread to over 130 countries. The work of her foundation spanned needed support from birth to death, providing (in various locatiions) medical clinics, food kitchens, orphanages and the like. The level of treatment she supplied has been questioned, but the work she was undertaking was honourable and often desperately needed.

Quote:
…[and] can or should a nun be able to win it?? What say you?

Can a nun win it? She did. Should she be able to win it? Knowing little about the heirarchy of the Roman Church, I assume that she would have needed to seek approval – perhaps even papal approval – before accepting the award. She accepted the award, which to me implies her ability to accept was not in question.

Cheeers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 9:23:26 PM
Quote:
George,

Do you have a website or text supporting these contentions??

Regards,
MD



You can google the invasion of Puerto Rico.

Here's one hit:

[Read More]

Of what I have said what do you find contentious, MD? I think that everything that I wrote is historical fact but I am always happy to be corrected.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/18/2022 9:25:46 PM
Quote:
I was stationed in PR in the late '70s. A vote was held asking if the island should be independent or granted statehood. 2% of the population voted in that election.


That's really low, OP. Were they disinterested? Afraid of something? Happy with the status quo?

George
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 6:30:31 AM
Hopelessly trapped at Yorktown, Virginia, British General Lord Cornwallis surrenders 8,000 British soldiers and seamen to a larger Franco-American force, effectively bringing an end to the American Revolution.

Lord Cornwallis was one of the most capable British generals of the American Revolution. In 1776, he drove General George Washington’s Patriots forces out of New Jersey, and in 1780 he won a stunning victory over General Horatio Gates’ Patriot army at Camden, South Carolina. Cornwallis’ subsequent invasion of North Carolina was less successful, however, and in April 1781 he led his weary and battered troops toward the Virginia coast, where he could maintain seaborne lines of communication with the large British army of General Henry Clinton in New York City. After conducting a series of raids against towns and plantations in Virginia, Cornwallis settled in the tidewater town of Yorktown in August. The British immediately began fortifying the town and the adjacent promontory of Gloucester Point across the York River.

General George Washington instructed the Marquis de Lafayette, who was in Virginia with an American army of around 5,000 men, to block Cornwallis’ escape from Yorktown by land. In the meantime, Washington’s 2,500 troops in New York were joined by a French army of 4,000 men under the Count de Rochambeau. Washington and Rochambeau made plans to attack Cornwallis with the assistance of a large French fleet under the Count de Grasse, and on August 21 they crossed the Hudson River to march south to Yorktown. Covering 200 miles in 15 days, the allied force reached the head of Chesapeake Bay in early September.

Meanwhile, a British fleet under Admiral Thomas Graves failed to break French naval superiority at the Battle of Virginia Capes on September 5, denying Cornwallis his expected reinforcements. Beginning September 14, de Grasse transported Washington and Rochambeau’s men down the Chesapeake to Virginia, where they joined Lafayette and completed the encirclement of Yorktown on September 28. De Grasse landed another 3,000 French troops carried by his fleet. During the first two weeks of October, the 14,000 Franco-American troops gradually overcame the fortified British positions with the aid of de Grasse’s warships. A large British fleet carrying 7,000 men set out to rescue Cornwallis, but it was too late.

On October 19, General Cornwallis surrendered 7,087 officers and men, 900 seamen, 144 cannons, 15 galleys, a frigate, and 30 transport ships. Pleading illness, he did not attend the surrender ceremony, but his second-in-command, General Charles O’Hara, carried Cornwallis’ sword to the American and French commanders. As the British and Hessian troops marched out to surrender, the British bands played the song “The World Turned Upside Down.”

Although the war persisted on the high seas and in other theaters, the Patriot victory at Yorktown effectively ended fighting in the American colonies. Peace negotiations began in 1782, and on September 3, 1783, the Treaty of Paris was signed, formally recognizing the United States as a free and independent nation after eight years of war.
===================================================================================================================================================

The first of 2 wins against the greatest military and naval power of the time.

When Churchill addressed Parliament and said, "Until, in God's good time, The New World, with all it's power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the Old.", it was the United States of America who he was referencing.




George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 8:18:10 AM
I presume that the last two sentences were your own, NYGiant while the rest is cut and paste. Why not just give us the url? I'm pretty sure that we all know how to surf.

And you have made the same inaccurate statements multiple times since your arrival. Perhaps a little more effort to create your own prose would help. I could live with lazy cut and paste but I do tire of your baiting comments at the end. We used to have moderators who would put a stop to that sort of thing.


As for Churchill, indeed he must have made reference to the US because other parts of the New World had already made the decision that it was necessary to go to war and were in action.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 9:20:15 AM
Quote:
MD: Quote:
1979 Mother Teresa wins the Nobel peace Prize! Did she deserve it?

Although it is seen as one of the most prestigious of awards, any Nobel is determined by the deliberations of a private group of thinkers. So, whether she deserved it or not, Mother Teresa gained the prize!

Her specific work may have originally been relatively local, but her reputation and influence had spread to over 130 countries. The work of her foundation spanned needed support from birth to death, providing (in various locatiions) medical clinics, food kitchens, orphanages and the like. The level of treatment she supplied has been questioned, but the work she was undertaking was honourable and often desperately needed.

Quote:
…[and] can or should a nun be able to win it?? What say you?

Can a nun win it? She did. Should she be able to win it? Knowing little about the heirarchy of the Roman Church, I assume that she would have needed to seek approval – perhaps even papal approval – before accepting the award. She accepted the award, which to me implies her ability to accept was not in question.

Cheeers
Brian G



Hi Brian,

I guess I raised the question because I thought the Award was given to a more secular individual? I'm glad they (the issuers of the Award) will give it to the most deserving, regardless, & certainly Mother Teresa was that!?

Any website with the list of winners and why??
Thanks,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 9:24:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
George,

Do you have a website or text supporting these contentions??

Regards,
MD



You can google the invasion of Puerto Rico.

Here's one hit:

[Read More]

Of what I have said what do you find contentious, MD? I think that everything that I wrote is historical fact but I am always happy to be corrected.

Cheers,

George



Hi George,

I was just surprised that the Puerto Ricans were at such odds with the US!?
We afterall did liberate them from the evil country of Spain!??

They are a US Territory afterall!??
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 9:45:14 AM
Some believe that the US was tricked into entering WW I. Hence our isolationism.

Anyway, the war in Europe had nothing to do with the US. in 1939, appeasement and all. It wasn't our fight.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 11:27:58 AM
Quote:
Some believe that the US was tricked into entering WW I.


You’re not one of those silly people, surely, NYG ?

How could the descendants of the people who bested the greatest power on earth - twice - have been so easily duped ?

Regards,

Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 12:10:51 PM

Phil,
From my readings, the US entered the war to make sure that the banks and financial institutions that loaned Great Britain money to continue the war, got their money back.

These are the 5 reasons the US entered WW 1...
The Lusitania. In early 1915, Germany introduced a policy of unrestricted submarine warfare in the Atlantic. ...
The German invasion of Belgium. ...
American loans. ...
The reintroduction of unrestricted submarine warfare. ...
The Zimmerman telegram.

The US had a vested financial interest in the outcome of the war in Europe. American businesses and banks made huge loans to the Allies. If they didn’t win then they were unlikely to get their money back.

Also, recall that at the end of WW 1, the Financial Center of the World moved from London to Wall Street.


Regards. NYGiant
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 1:26:41 PM
Quote:
Hi George,

I was just surprised that the Puerto Ricans were at such odds with the US!?
We afterall did liberate them from the evil country of Spain!??

They are a US Territory afterall!??
MD


MD, I think that the resentment on the part of the Puerto Ricans, Cubans and Filippinos is perfectly understandable.

The Puerto Ricans had achieved autonomous government under Spain in 1898. They had been fighting for decades to reach that point.

The US landed 15,000 troops on the island, abolished the Parliament and set up a military government. They met with resistance though not near as much as was experienced in the Philippines. The US announced to Puerto Rico that they were their liberators but it certainly didn't seem that way when their government was immediately abolished. The US often tells the citizens of countries that it invades that they are there to liberate. General Hull wrote a letter to the people of Upper Canada in 1812 to tell them that his invasion was nothing to fear. He was there to liberate them. He was surprised when that was rejected.

I don't know whether the US was surprised at the negative responses on the Spanish possessions that they obtained as spoils of war.

They had traded one colonial master for another from the perspective of many Puerto Ricans. I say that knowing that the few wealthy landowners supported the US so long as their preeminent position was respected. There was some violence and the US called the protesters who engaged in raids on landowner properties, insurgents.

So indeed, Puerto Rico is a US territory. Is it true that the Puerto Ricans are not permitted to vote for the office of President of the US despite being US citizens? Puerto Rico is not a state in the US. It's not independent. So what exactly is a territory in US parlance? Is it any different than a semi-autonomous colony? It's a serious question, not a dig Dave.

Cheers,

George
George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 1:41:43 PM
Quote:

Phil,
From my readings, the US entered the war to make sure that the banks and financial institutions that loaned Great Britain money to continue the war, got their money back.

These are the 5 reasons the US entered WW 1...
The Lusitania. In early 1915, Germany introduced a policy of unrestricted submarine warfare in the Atlantic. ...
The German invasion of Belgium. ...
American loans. ...
The reintroduction of unrestricted submarine warfare. ...
The Zimmerman telegram.

The US had a vested financial interest in the outcome of the war in Europe. American businesses and banks made huge loans to the Allies. If they didn’t win then they were unlikely to get their money back.

Also, recall that at the end of WW 1, the Financial Center of the World moved from London to Wall Street.


Regards. NYGiant


The US and especially Pres. Wilson wanted to assure that they had a position at the table when the new world order was devised.

Germany had stopped unrestricted warfare and then reintroduced it in 1917.

I don't understand why the fate of Belgium suddenly arose as a cause that the US had to support in 1917. If so surely that moral imperative was evident two and half years prior, when the war began.

I agree that both world wars were financially lucrative for the US. Not so for the UK.

George
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 3:06:58 PM
Following Germany’s invasion of neutral Belgium in 1914, stories began to circulate about atrocities committed against Belgian civilians. These stories, both true and exaggerated, were seized upon for propaganda. So-called “atrocity propaganda” spread far and wide, painting the Germans as a barbaric nation bent on ruthless, indiscriminate destruction. This propaganda was soon sweeping the US, firing anti-German sentiment.

President Wilson was determined to remain neutral in the war, however. It was Wilson's goal to keep America completely out of World War I, which began in 1914—and have the country serve as a peacemaker to other nations.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 3:59:46 PM
Quote:
Following Germany’s invasion of neutral Belgium in 1914, stories began to circulate about atrocities committed against Belgian civilians. These stories, both true and exaggerated, were seized upon for propaganda. So-called “atrocity propaganda” spread far and wide, painting the Germans as a barbaric nation bent on ruthless, indiscriminate destruction. This propaganda was soon sweeping the US, firing anti-German sentiment.

President Wilson was determined to remain neutral in the war, however. It was Wilson's goal to keep America completely out of World War I, which began in 1914—and have the country serve as a peacemaker to other nations.


The US could not have had a chair at Paris to write the Treaty of Versailles if they had not committed troops.

Re: Belgium. Those stories began to circulate early in the war in 1914 and long before the US committed. Tales of German atrocities in northern France were common as well.

I find it hard to believe that that became a reason to go to war in late 1917 though the stories could have been used to harden the US citizens against Germany.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 4:21:20 PM
That's not the reason the US entered the war though, to participate in the Peace negotiations. US opinion was against the war until the Zimmerman telegram and Imperial Germany restarting unrestricted submarine warfare.

What made war finance during the conflict so special is that this challenge had never been confronted in a world economy as large, deeply interconnected, and sophisticated as that which existed in 1914.
Britain financed the Allies until 1916 when it ran out of money and had to borrow from the United States. The U.S. took over the financing of the Allies in 1917 with loans that it insisted be repaid after the war. And making sure the Allies did win the war, the US joined in. if the Allies had lost, those loans would never be repaid. The United States was the largest wartime creditor, lending a total of $7 billion, of which $3.7 billion went to Britain, $1.9 billion to France, and $1 billion to Italy.


George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 8:44:07 PM
Quote:
That's not the reason the US entered the war though, to participate in the Peace negotiations. US opinion was against the war until the Zimmerman telegram and Imperial Germany restarting unrestricted submarine warfare.


Not so sure. Woodrow Wilson was somewhat naive in that he thought that his 14 points would create the world order that he envisioned. He was greeted enthusiastically when he arrived in Paris for the treaty negotiations.

But his 14 points speech took place in Jan. of 1918 but he had made many speeches prior to that in which he laid out his world vision. His speeches were full of the idealistic views that permeated the 14 points which included his wish for a League of Nations.

So I do feel that he saw a place for himself and the US on the world stage. Wilson wanted to manage the peace.



George
George
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 8:44:25 PM
double



NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 8:57:10 PM
What President Wilson faced was a Great Britain and France intent on not only revenge, but a pound of flesh. They are the ones who planted the seeds for WW II.

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
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This day in World History! Continued
10/19/2022 9:31:22 PM
Yeah, Dave, there are a lot of misconceptions about the Nobels. As far as I know, they are not secular, not Christian, not “sanctioned”. I’ve not really studied the organization, the rules of award, the criteria for consideration or the process of selection. They have no links to the UN that I know of; the selections are not related to any specific national or international requirements or pressures.

There is a lot of information about the Nobel prizes and the Nobel Organization on the web, and winners can be seen by award, by gender, by nationality, or in just about any configuration you choose – including double-winners. Just enter “Nobel Prizes” and take your choice of topic. /for this kind of topic, Wiki is pretty reliable.

Cheers,
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
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This day in World History! Continued
10/20/2022 3:23:36 AM
Quote:
What President Wilson faced was a Great Britain and France intent on not only revenge, but a pound of flesh. They are the ones who planted the seeds for WW II.



You’re joking, of course ?

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
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