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George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 9:11:37 AM
Quote:
As MD notes:Quote:
1945 Russian Troops liberate Auschwitz! How horrific this must have been! Comments on on perceptions on discovering these death camps!?
This makes today International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Sadly, in my part of the world, I saw no recognition of the event or the day.

Two thoughts on what should be a day of deep introspection for every living human being.

First, can it be said that the huge complex under the name of Auschwitz was “liberated”, or only that it was overrun? Not because it was Soviet troops who arrived rather than western ones, but because I would think the vast majority of those found alive were never “liberated”, but only released alive. Auschwitz has become so much more than an extermination factory; it is both symbol and monument to the two extremes of degradation. We all know it was not the only camp, and there were horrors specific to camps less well-known than Auschwitz.

Secondly, although again I saw little recognition of Holocaust Day in my home town, I see it as one day when we must consider the failures of the human race. People did this to people. The anniversary of the Wannsee Protocol occurred mere days ago, when people just like MHO members sat down and devised an industrial program to kill fellow humans for their faith, their language, their sexual orientation, their colour, their politics. This should be seen as a day of human culpability; to whatever God or values we hold sacred, we should be offering mea culpas. Didn’t happen in my home town.

Brian G




To be fair Brian, there were many, many commemorative events held in Canada, yesterday. Most were held remotely because of Covid. Hopefully, a more fulsome response can be expected in the future.

The Vancouver Holocaust Education Centre was one association of many across the country who were involved.

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For what it is worth, the PM made a statement yesterday.

[Read More]

Of course, the day is mentioned in most schools but in my province, Holocaust education is somewhat hit and miss. I believe that teachers are required to teach about the event and the horrors of the holocaust but the curriculum is not as detailed or defined as it should be. The Jewish community leaders in Ontario are pushing the Ministry of Education to beef up this part of the social studies/history curricula.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 9:49:40 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Today in history 1099, the 1st Crusade is in full swing with attacks in Syria, what say you about warfare over religion!?

1521 King Charles V opens a diet of Worms! It had to be awful for him unless he's like a Robin or Fish!? Any comments on the diet??

1547 A 9 year old succeeds Henry Henry VIII as king of England! How did this kid king do? Brian, what say you?

1864 in the CW the Battle of New Bern, NC. Who won & how important was this battle? Any CW posters, comments??

1865 Confederate President Jefferson Davis names 3 peace officers, did he hold out hope for a peaceful exit from the Union still?? What say you on how close the Confederacy, would come to a diplomatic end to the CW with independence for the South!? Comments, anyone??

1944 683 RAF Bombers attack Berlin! Greetings to the Fuhrer! How successful was this attack!? Anyone??

1973 Bloody Sunday in N. Ireland! Any posts on it's history of what occurred there? Anyone??

1822, Alexander Mackenzie's birthday,on this date, he was the 2nd Priminister of Canada, what kind of leader was he?? Comments?

Comments on the above events?
Anyone?? Or new events?

Cheers,
MD

BTW, George,

Thanks for the Canadian NW territory history lesson! BTW, The US also once had NW territory, Michigan was part of it!?

BTW Brian,

Your right, it is a sad horrific tragedy, & terrible reflection on humanity, that this could possibly happen!? The US for one does not give it's significance justice!?



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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 1:21:51 PM
Quote:
1822, Alexander Mackenzie's birthday,on this date, he was the 2nd Priminister of Canada, what kind of leader was he?? Comments?


Our relationship with our leaders is somewhat different than that experienced in the US. We do not elect our Prime Ministers directly. They have been selected to lead a party and if we vote for an MP who is of that same party and sufficient other numbers of Canadians do, then the person leading that party will become our PM.
I am having trouble explaining that our relationship with government is perhaps less emotional. For me it is almost like hiring a contractor to do a job. Get on with it. I don't have to love the leader or be inspired by him but I have to know that he and his party have the best interests of the people as their central focus.
I expect them to be workmanlike in their approach.

So what has that got to do with Alexander Mackenzie, our second PM. Apparently there was nothing particularly outstanding about the man. He was a working class fellow himself and another Scot as was our first PM, Sir John A. Macdonald. The Scots invented Canada you know.

Mackenzie was a stone mason and he came to Canada for that sort of work.



He got involved in politics quite early after immigrating but in his time became one of the most successful builders and contractors in Sarnia, Ontario.

He was a reformer and became leader of the Liberal Party and I suppose a rather pedestrian fellow but well respected. His party was elected because Sir John A. had been involved in some shady dealings involving the transcontinental rail line. And so the people turfed him and the Conservatives out.

Political cartoon of Sir John A. speaking to Alexander Mackenzie. The PM is saying, "I admit that I took the money and bribed the electors with it. Is there anything wrong about that?"



But Macdonald came roaring back in the 1878 election and was returned as PM. Alexander Mackenzie continued to represent his riding until the day that he died.

I had to look this up but Mackenzie's legacy may be one associated with the establishment of the basis for a modern electoral system in the new country of Canada. And so the Dominion Elections Act was passed during his tenure and that established the secret ballot and removed the requirement that only land owners could run for federal office.

He was also PM when the Supreme Court was established.


So some pretty important developments occurred on his watch. He did his job.

Cheers,

George

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 1:35:16 PM
Jan 27, 1943 was the first daylight air raid by the US 8th airforce on German soil. 55 bombers left their bases in Britain and dropped 137 tons of bombs on Wilhelmshaven where the u-boat pens were located.

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/28/2022 11:37:50 PM
George, an historic anniversary indeed. Thanks for iterating clearly that this was a first attack on Germany, rather than a first bombing attack on German-held territory.

Many US folks note the first air attack by USAA on 4 July, 1942. But it was against Occupied Europe (locations in France or the Low Countries) rather than against Germany. It was a joint raid, IIRC – was it 3 RAF a/c and 3 USAAC a/c, or double that number? – and was not considered a successful op.

God knows that the USAAF was eager to partake of the bombing of German-occupied Europe. They found, however, that their commitment to daylight, “precision” bombing continued to come at a high price. Think Black Thursday against Schweinfurt, even as late as October 1943.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/29/2022 8:10:49 AM
Quote:
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3 perpetual sites, check 1-28, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

Guys,

Your right, bombing a fortified well.air supported Germany was no picnic!? Also technology wise the Germans weapons, & aircraft were of the highest quality! Who do you think had the most technically advanced weapons in WWII?? What say you?? Anyone??


BTW George,

In NHL tonight my improved Detroit Red Wings look to upset your soaring Toronto Maple Leafs! A pint at Yoders is on the line! . Oops sorry Bri., sports again!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/29/2022 8:04:00 PM
I find it interesting that the following two events occurred on the same day.

In 2002, in his State of the Union address, George W. Bush (#45) declared Iraq, Iran and North Korea to be an “axis of evil”. According to Britannica, this declaration was made “for their attempts to develop nuclear, chemical, or biological weaponry”.

In 1964, the British movie “Dr Strangelove” opened in theatres. It is described by Britannica as “a landmark Cold War farce”.

Not to put too sharp a point on it, this sounds as if Mr Bush is ignoring the fact that many nations had access to all three of those classifications of weapons, and were using one or more of them to threaten/blackmail/coerce their opponents. I sense the “evil” in the triangle was that these three nations were considered “enemies” of the US, or at least of US policy. I guess “Axis of antipathy” just didn’t have the needed buzz. …

And not to force any issues about “Dr Strangelove” – admittedly one of my top ten favourite films – is it possible to toss this movie off as “Cold War farce”? I admit Kubrick’s intent seems to be designed to make us question our values, our intentions and our enemies. He may even be trying to show all our flag-waving is backed by asinine values and valueless goals.

At any rate, it seemed to me to be somewhat ironic to note these two events share a common birth date. It tickled my irascible nature to see them touch in such a random way.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/30/2022 2:51:48 AM
Three hundred and seventy three years ago the King of England, Charles 1st, was beheaded outside the Banqueting Hall in Whitehall, London.

That’s quite something, isn’t it, to kill a king ?

I hear people talking on the radio about how the British people have enjoyed a unique degree of political stability, and are not prone to revolution. Perhaps they should reflect on this anniversary and think again.

Editing : Another anniversary : a fiftieth, and a foul one, at that. As if to undermine any British complacency about our unique “ stability”, today marks the anniversary of an all too recent event that stains our record : Bloody Sunday in 1972, when the British Army killed thirteen civilians in the Bogside area of Derry, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom. Another victim of the massacre died months later. The Paratroopers fired 108 rounds. As I write this, the radio replays the British government’s apology that was issued several years ago.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/30/2022 9:18:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check 1-29, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

Wow, every country has their ghosts in the closet, N. Ireland, & England still seem polarized!? Visited some large southern plantation, some of them had 1,000’s of slaves, Just so they could sip mint juleps on their huge plantation mansions porches!!

Gotta go, post when you can!?
D

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/30/2022 7:48:35 PM
Quote:
Three hundred and seventy three years ago the King of England, Charles 1st, was beheaded outside the Banqueting Hall in Whitehall, London.

That’s quite something, isn’t it, to kill a king ?

I hear people talking on the radio about how the British people have enjoyed a unique degree of political stability, and are not prone to revolution. Perhaps they should reflect on this anniversary and think again.

An astounding event indeed, Phil. There is no single-event action today that can touch what foundations were shaken by Charles’s execution. That may sound dramatic, but the execution was at the time an affront to God, majesty and government.

Those who talk about political stability in England are being highly selective in their choice of memories or are turning a blind eye to the various waves of violence that have swept across the land, almost from the time of William the Bastard but certainly since the death of John of Gaunt in 1399. Just consider:
• War of the Princes (1400-1485)
• Henry VIII’s religious legacy (1534-1689)
• English Civil War (1642-51)
• Commonwealth challenges (1651-60)

A kind of peace descended on England with the Protestant succession of William and Mary, but don’t tell that to the Catholics of Ireland (this was, IIRC, the “King Billy” detested in Irish ballads). But if we don’t talk about the importation of the Hanoverians, the 15 and the 45, we can see how peaceful the British Isles really were. Peace and political stability began with the defeat of Napoleon and the coronation of Victoria in 1837. Not before.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/30/2022 8:37:19 PM
Two events which appear to bracket Nazi ascendency in Germany:

• On this day in 1933 President von Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler Chancellor of Germany. IIRC, 1932 had seen two national elections in Germany, in which the NSADP (the Nazis) won pluralities but not majorities. In fact, the Nazis lost ground in the November 1932 election, but retained a plurality. Hitler, IIUC, never ran for elected office but only as the leader of the NSADP. His position as leader of the largest party demanded that he be considered for senior, unelected positions such as the chancellorship. I believe Hindenburg believed that assigning Hitler the chancellorship would “bring him into the political fold”. Instead, it gave Hitler the power to activate his way to control of government. All it took was one Reichstag fire.

• On this day in 1945, the Wilhelm Gustloff was torpedoed by a Soviet submarine. This remains the worst marine disaster in history, with some 9,000 lives lost. Nobody seems interested in recognizing it as such. The overladen ship had wounded troops and refugees aboard, but may also have been carrying troops from the Eastern Front to the west as well. The ship’s logs do not provide an accurate list of passengers, and the typically meticulous Nazi records failed in this instance in providing details. Hence the imprecise number of lost souls.

Wilhelm Gustloff had a varied career during her short life. She was designed to be a “Kraft durch Freud” cruise vessel. During the war, however, she was IIRC a troop carrier and a hospital ship. A ship becomes whatever function it is assigned. How she was being described/defined when she was torpedoed in ugly weather, I don’t know.

If you don’t know about “Kraft durch Freud” (Strength through Joy) program of the Nazis, it’s worth a look. Lots wrong with the implementation of the various KdF programs, but hard to argue against the conception of such a program.

Nuff on this.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/31/2022 7:24:24 PM
Just to add one more to the list of acts of British social stability, on this day in 1606 Guy Fawkes and his fellow conspirators were executed for treason. On 5 Nov 1605 they had been apprehended while placing explosives under the hall in which King James I (James VI of Scotland; the first in the English Stuart dynasty) and parliament were to meet. It was a plot by Papists, unhappy with James’s staunch protestantism and the subsequent blows to their hopes of returning England to the Faith. And … yes … this is the James I whose bible remains the most prominent English bible in use.

It would be his son, Charles I, who would be beheaded some 44 years later. This time, the activists would be Parliamentary forces, largely of Puritan persuasion, who would take action in part because the Protestantism of the Church of England was not perpared to become even more radical and evangelical.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/31/2022 8:27:44 PM
On this day in 1943, Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus surrendered to the Russians at Stalingrad. His troops would surrender two days later.

I’m not very knowledgable about the Eastern Front, but didn’t this surrender drop some 600,000 German troops into the bag? And am I wrong in believing this could have been avoided?

It must have been maddening for one of Hitler’s temperament to be unable to seize the two cities bearing his hated rivals’ names. Leningrad besieged for 1000 days but never taken; Stalingrad battered to rubble and half-conquered, but refusing to surrender. I can understand his exhortations to hold ground gained and press forward, but at the possible loss of an entire army?

IIRC, the Allies committed about 150,000 troops (US, UK, CDN, Polish) to the D-Day assault. The day was one of mixed results. At one point, Omaha Beach was so weakly covered and was under such counter-assault that there was talk of withdrawing troops from Omaha. Which, IMHO, would have meant a strong possibility of collapse across the entire Normandy front.

Why am I raising D-Day over Paulus’ surrender at Stalingrad? Largely, I guess, because Germany saw 4 times more troops lost with the surrender at Stalingrad (we’re not talking those lost during the months-long battle, but only those lost by the surrender!) that the western Allies committed to D-Day. How can we think of the “Second Front” as anything but a distraction when we look at such numbers? Or when we count the civilian deaths during the 1000 days of Leningrad, which may have outnumbered all the deaths by all the Allied bomber raids on German cities?

I’m a bit shaken, to be honest. Somehow, just thinking about Paulus and his lost army, I realized that numbers don’t lie (too often). The western Allied didn’t defeat Germany. They simply applied the pressure of a two-front assault to allow the Soviets to exercise punishment and execute judgment on Nazi Germany.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 3:14:29 AM
Quote:

I’m not very knowledgable about the Eastern Front, but didn’t this surrender drop some 600,000 German troops into the bag? And am I wrong in believing this could have been avoided?





Brian,

Yes, a truly monstrous defeat for Germany : although you'll forgive me if I point out that your 600,000 is a six fold exaggeration.

In rough and ready terms, about one quarter of a million German troops were trapped in that " Cauldron" : of these, about fifty thousand wounded, sick and specialists were evacuated by air, one hundred thousand were taken prisoner, and the remaining one hundred thousand were either killed, or left to perish on the battlefield.

There were, in addition, many thousands of German casualties in the months prior to the encirclement, and there were great numbers of satellite troops - Romanians, Hungarians and Italians - who swelled the Axis losses to alarming proportions.

The fate of those captured was appalling. Only about six thousand of the German prisoners got home by 1955.

The Soviets themselves suffered well over one million casualties in the six months of fighting that they attribute to the entire campaign.

Edit : You're not wrong, Brian, that catastrophic defeat was undoubtedly avoidable. Importance of the symbol ; determination not to lose face and sheer bloody minded dictatorship were upheld at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. No Verdun on the Volga ! promised Hitler as he sought to reassure the anxious German people. He cited Verdun for compelling reasons, because that was the example of futile sacrifice in pursuit of symbolic prestige. There were German forces ready, willing and able to breakthrough to rescue the Sixth Army from its predicament. They were denied the chance to try this until it was too late. As for the Soviets, their determination to hold Stalingrad cost them nearly three times as many lives as those lost by France at Verdun in 1916. Not that this loss was futile, since failure there was bound to be cataclysmic. Amongst the Soviet victims were ten thousand ( ?) executed by their own people as a result of Stalin's order " Not One Step Back ! ". If that's how they treated their own soldiers, one can only try and imagine how they dealt with German POWs.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 9:03:23 AM
Hi Phil, & Brian,

Those are incredible figures reflecting the hatred between the Soviets, & the Nazis! An entire Axis Army lost because of Hitler's arrogance! The treatment of prisoners and civilians was horrific on both sides, the tale you tell Phil sounds like a nightmare of science fiction, but is unfortunately true!

Any good websites on this incredible battle?
Regards, & please continue the discussion!?
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 9:27:37 AM
It's a day early but, check 2-1, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
welcome to February,

cheers,
MD

1587 Elizabeth I has her cousin Mary Queen of Scots put to death!? Why whatever for?? Anyone have the story on this??

1796 the capital of Upper Canada is moved from Newark to York? Where is Newark, Canada anyway!? Comments on why? Anyone??

1861 Texas seceded from the Union even though their leader Sam Houston begged then not to!? What say you? Was Sam the wisest Texan of them all? Comments?

1865 Gen WT Sherman begins marching through South Carolina! Is Uncle Billy, responsible for burning Columbia to the ground!? Some say the Confederate set bales of cotton on fire so the Union wouldn't get them for profit?? What about that??

1917 German Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz declares unrestricted U boat warfare against the Allies! How effective was this? Anyone?

1923 Facists form under Benito Mussolini! Have you ever seen the Duce smile?? How bad for Italy was this guy?? What say you?

1933 German Parliament is disolved! Could Hindenburg have stopped Hitler, early on if he had been more vigilant, & tougher!?? Comments?

1940 the Soviet Union invades Finland! Why did they have such a hard time fighting the Fins? What say you?

1942 Vidkun Quisling is appointed leader of Norway by the Nazis! Why did they (Nazis) like him?? & why is his name dispised now in Norway? Anyone??

1920 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are formed! How important were they to Canada's development!? How lawless might have Canada been without them? What say you??

Lots to discuss here!
Comments?
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 11:00:28 AM
Dave,

Texas secedes , though Sam Houston begged them not to .....

Let me venture my memory here and see if I can recall, more or less, what he said :

After the expenditure of millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may achieve independence, but I doubt it. The people of the North are not as we - of the sunnier climes - are. They are slower to move, but when they do, they stride with the remorseless power of the giant...

Now that's probably not exact, it's my best attempt to cite his words. I'd be grateful if any of our friends here could check and see how near the mark I am.

What I think is so remarkable is the absolute sagacity he displayed : he was right on the money, so to speak.....literally , in terms of the millions of treasure, and, chillingly, in his prediction of the loss of life. A very powerful reminder that, far from being naïve and unaware of the horror of a sectional conflict, there were men and women on both sides who reckoned that such a war would be a bloodbath. The same applies to the people of 1914 : it's often depicted as an event that people imagined would be quickly settled - " Over by Christmas" - when, in fact , there were plenty of Sam Houston counterparts who predicted the appalling nightmare ahead.

Note that Houston conceded that the South did stand a chance of winning, but he saw it as unlikely. That strikes me as a sound reckoning. I like his caricature of the sectional divide, a kind of Fire and Ice analogy !

Regards, Phil

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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 2:44:30 PM
Quote:
796 the capital of Upper Canada is moved from Newark to York!? Comments on why? Anyone??


The British colony of Upper Canada (now the Canadian province of Ontario) was created in 1791, after the US war of independence.
That represented a reorganization of the colony of Québec into two parts, Upper and Lower Canada (now the Province of Québec).

The Lt. Governor of UC was John Graves Simcoe who had fought with some distinction against the rebels of the 13 colonies.

There were several candidates for the capital. Kingston, on the east end of Lake Ontario was one and the people there were convinced that as the largest town in UC, it was the logical choice. But Simcoe felt that Kingston was too close to the US. Sacket's Harbor, NY is only a short hop across the narrow end of the lake.

So Simcoe continued moving westward along Lake Ontario and decided that the Niagara Peninsula would be his choice. In truth he was at odds with his superior Lord Dorchester (Guy Carleton) who wanted Kingston as the capital. That was enough for Simcoe to say no as he wished to run his own show.

Simcoe chose the town of Niagara as his capital and renamed it Newark. Newark sat on the west bank of the Niagara River where it dumped the waters of the river into Lake Ontario. Directly across from Newark was Fort Niagara in New York and it was garrisoned by British regulars. Simcoe hoped that Fort Niagara would stay in British possession and offer protection to the new capital of Newark.

Now Fort Niagara had been ceded to the US in 1783 but nine years later, the British were still there. The British decided not to leave other possessions in the new US territory including Detroit and Oswego (now Erie, PA). Britain had some hopes to modify the treaty to allow them to keep possession of the south side of the lower Great Lakes.

But Jay's Treaty was signed in 1794 and the British were compelled to surrender possessions in US territory. And so without the protection of Fort Niagara, John Simcoe felt that his capital at Newark could be destroyed by the fort's cannon. As we may imagine, the relationship between the new US and GB was not great just after the rebellion and the possibility of renewed conflict was always on the minds of the British and the colonists.

He felt that London, in Upper Canada's southwest and on the Thames River would have been a good choice. He personally scouted the area and found it to be a superb location. It was inland and so somewhat away from the Americans and the soil was excellent. Perfect for protection and colonization. He put his stamp of approval on it in 1793.

Simcoe had opponents of course who felt that London was even more of a backwater than was Newark. But Simcoe was a traveller and he revelled in his treks to remote parts of Upper Canada. He did not see travel as a problem. He liked it. He also had the habit of replacing the First Nation names for places with English names and the FN's and others did not appreciate that.

While Simcoe loved Newark, he felt that it was a bad place for his British regiment to be situated because of the swampy ground nearby. As well, the town was not growing as rapidly as he would have hoped. His personal accommodation was a tent and so while he pondered the creation of a capital at London, he decided to move the capital temporarily across Lake Ontario to a comparatively new town called York, established in 1793.

But the capital was never moved to London. Simcoe apparently abandoned the idea and so on Feb. 1, 1796, York was established as the capital of Upper Canada. Simcoe departed for England shortly after.


BTW, Newark is now called Niagara-on-the-Lake and it is one of the prettiest towns on the Niagara River. And during the War of 1812, it was burned to the ground by the Americans in the dead of a cold winter. They had decided to abandon their offensive in Upper Canada and to return to the US side of the river but decided to destroy Newark before they left.

This led to British retaliation as they crossed the river and burned everything along the river from Lewiston, NY to Buffalo, NY.

You can see the towns of Niagara, York and London on this map of Upper Canada.



And York of course became the great city of Toronto.

Cheers,

George



Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 8:09:32 PM
Phil, thanks for pointing out my error and giving what I trust are more accurate numbers. I will confess that, while I trust numbers when you offer them, I am nagged by where that 600,000 I posed came from. Something in my mind is screaming that 600.000 is a significant number associated with Stalingrad, but I can’t find a single backup for that feeling! Had the troops surrendered been 60,000 I could laugh off a ten-fold error: once I was 8; now I am 80 – what’s the difference!

Oddly, the first German person I remember meeting claimed to be recently released from a Soviet gulag. It was in 1955 at the latest. He had the ring with the “secret” compartment, and he told wonderful stories of how he came to be released. Even then, I had trouble believing him; he was “courting” my cousin, so was either trying to paint himself as anti-Communistic or maybe just a “nice” Nazi. And yes, there was a “von” thrown into the mix. He claimed to be an officer. My cousin didn’t marry him.

At any rate, I apologize to MHO for posting such egregiously incorrect numbers, and thank Phil for pointing it out in a fashion typical of his kindness.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/1/2022 8:32:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check 2-1, & 2-2, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
welcome to February, cheers,
MD

1587 Elizabeth I has her cousin Mary Queen of Scots killed! Why whatever for?? Bri, you probably have the story!??

1796 the capital of Upper Canada is moved from Newark to York!? Comments on why? Anyone??

1861 Texas seceded from the Union even though their leader Sam Houston begged then not to!? What say you? Was Sam the wisest Texan?? Comments?

1865 Gen WT Sherman begins marching through South Carolina! Is he responsible for burning Columbia to the ground! What about that??

1917 German Admiral Alfred von Tirpitz declares unrestricted U boat warfare against the Allies! How effective was this? Anyone?

1923 Facists form under Benito Mussolini! Have you ever seen the Duce smile?? How bad for Italy was this guy?? What say you?

1933 German Parliament is disolved! Could Hindenburg have stopped Hitler, early on?? Comments?

1940 the Soviet Union invades Finland! Why did they have such a hard time fighting the Fins? What say you?

1942 Vidkun Quisling is appointed leader of Norway by the Nazis! Why did they like him?? Anyone??

1920 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are formed! How important were they to Canada's development!?? What say you??




Lots to discuss here!
Comments?
D




Hi Phil,

I agree that this Leader of Texas Sam Houston was right on! when he predicted what would happen if Texas joined the Confederacy, & went to war against the Union! Why didn't the Texans believe him??

George,

I have visited Niagara on the Lakes, A couple of times! A nice historical town, not far from Fort Niagara! BTW I owe you a beer Leafs win!

Good posts,
MD

Still other good topics here, tomorrow will that giant rodent see his shadow!?? Anything else checking 2-2 in history?.Anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 2:04:28 AM
Brian,

Rest assured that your 600,000 citation has validity if the entire Stalingrad campaign is assessed in terms of the six months of fighting that it entailed and the overall cost in killed, wounded and captured for the Axis forces. Indeed, three quarters of a million is probably nearer the mark.
This would include not only the Germans , but also their Italian, Romanian and - I think - Hungarian allies. The actual number of Germans who went into the bag when von Paulus surrendered was 91,000. The Soviet archives compiled their losses in the entire campaign as 1.1 million.
It’s all so mind boggling, and so much depends on how you assign the scope and duration of the battle. The struggle for the city itself yields a very different figure from an assessment that extends along the entire southern front of the war between the Axis and the Soviet Union.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 9:12:38 AM
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check 2-2, in history, check above for more events.?

That Groundhogs did not see his perverbial shadow! ☺
Good news! Early Spring! Or is it just global warming??

Anyway today 2-2 in world history!

1349 The Black death in London was taking over 200 per day, does that pale compared to Covid? Comments??


1787 the Articles of Confederation are in effect, why was this not a final step in US Government? Anyone??

1848 A large shipment of Chinese arrive in San Francisco, when did Canada get most of their Far East Immigrants?? Where do they reside in Canada today??

Also in 1848 the US takes 4 states from Mexico! Was this justified or imperialism?? What say you?

1901 Queen Victoria's funeral! How would you rate her reign? Comments, anyone??

1944 Allied Troops 1st set foot on Japanese soil! Why did it take so long? Comments?

1989 terrible cold spell goes across N America! What winter do you remember as the worst? This year is pretty bad at times, other times good, a mixed bag!? Comments??

Some what cold down south its been about 10° colder here as well!

Regards,
MD

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 9:42:45 AM
Quote:
1848 A large shipment of Chinese arrive in San Francisco, when did Canada get most of their Far East Immigrants??


Far East?? meaning China only?

The history of Chinese immigration to Canada begins in the latter part of the 18th century. After that there were different waves of Chinese immigration. These people were considered a source of cheap labour and the waves of immigration often coincided with a need for labour.

So they would arrive whenever there was a gold rush like the one in the Fraser Valley or the Klondike. Thousands arrived in the 1870's to work on the trans-continental railway.

Most of the immigrants from China arrived fairly recently though.

Quote:
In 2001, there just over one million people of Chinese origin living in Canada. That year, they represented approximately 4% of the total Canadian population.
. source: Statscan

Quote:
A substantial majority of the Chinese population living in Canada was born outside the country. In 2001, 72% of Canadians of Chinese origin were born outside of Canada, compared with 18% of all Canadians. Close to 45% of foreign-born Canadians of Chinese origin were born in the People's Republic of China, while approximately 30% were born in Hong Kong and almost 10% were from Taiwan.
. source: Statscan

The pace of Chinese immigration has accelerated.

Quote:
The majority of immigrants of Chinese origin arrived in Canada relatively recently. In 2001, 52% of ethnic Chinese immigrants had arrived in the previous decade and another 25% had arrived between 1981 and 1990. In contrast, only about 5% had arrived in the 1960s, and just 2% came to Canada before 1961.
. source: Statscan

But there are a lot of countries in Asia and we receive immigrants from many of them. In fact, China is not our primary source of Asian immigration. That would be India.

In 2021 Canada received just over 400, 000 immigrants. The major groups represented were:

Country Number of New Permanent Residents Up To October

India 96,660
China 24,995
Philippines 13,310
Nigeria 12,500
France 10,510
United States 9,525
Brazil 9,270
Iran 8,930
Pakistan 6,625
South Korea 6,590


Cheers,

George





George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 1:05:48 PM
Quote:
1989 terrible cold spell goes across N America! What winter do you remember as the worst? This year is pretty bad! Comments??


All depends on frame of reference. December of1989 was noticeable because of the depth of penetration of Arctic air into the southern US.

Not that Canada wasn't hit as well. I mean the US weather reports constantly refer to "cold air coming down from Canada" so I guess that we were already in it. Except that 1989 was quite cold by our standards and the prairie provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba were stuck in freezing temperatures for quite a while. They had -20 C temperatures for days and dipped to -30 C. This is in Winnipeg, Manitoba which is quite far south in western Canada.

Farther north, the temperatures were hitting -50 C (-58F)

By contrast, the temperatures in Toronto on Dec. 20, 21, 22, of 1989 ranged from a high of -9 C to -16 C on the 22nd. Now those are nippy temperatures but not particularly terrible unless you're a Toronto type. I can say that because TO is my home town. Not socks and sandals weather but manageable.

I normally gauge the severity of the winter by the quantity of snow that falls and not the temperature. And I do take notice of the wind speed because a low temperature is a lot more tolerable without a lot of wind. The old adage that, "there is no bad weather just improper clothing" is easier to accept when it isn't blowing.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 1:34:04 PM
Quote:
Also in 1848 the US takes 4 states from Mexico! Was this justified or imperialism?? What say you?


Expansionism or imperialism or Manifest Destiny. It doesn't matter. Another part of North America fell to the US.

But the US was in conflict with other nations that had interests in North America. The US and Britain would soon by arguing over the Oregon territory which was effectively administered by the Hudson Bay Co. and the Oregon Treaty would settle that in 1846. Next up, Mexico.

Spain had a number of possessions that would be taken later including West Florida, East Florida and a pinch of land on the west side of the Mississippi River. The US was in acquisition mode for a long time after the rebellion.

The Republic of Texas had been declared and not recognized by Mexico. This seizure was effected by moving thousands of settlers into Mexican territory and then demanding sovereignty. EDIT: I haven't forgotten that the settlers fought a war with Mexico.

Mexican territory extended into California, New Mexico, Texas and New Mexico with Mexicans living in all those areas.

Despite the fact that Mexico disputed the Texas claim, the US determined to annex Texas and to bring it into the union. Mexico considered that to be an act of war but were dissuaded from a declaration by Britain.

Next the US offered to buy New Mexico and California. The Mexicans wouldn't consider it.

With US troops found in Mexican territory, Mexican forces attacked and some US soldiers were killed. And that was sufficient provocation for the US to declare war on Mexico in 1846.

By Sept. of 1847, the US was in Mexico City. Some US politicians wanted to annex all of Mexico but there were dissenters who did not think that this was right.

The land ceded in area was larger than the remaining part of Mexico.





I am curious though. How do Americans feel about these annexations and wars of expansion?

Cheers,

George





Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 5:24:51 PM
George, you say Quote:
The history of Chinese immigration to Canada begins in the latter part of the 18th century.
. Is this a typo? If not I am truly astounded.

I had thought that China was a closed society until Hong Kong was leased to Britain in 1842, and that was the gateway through which many of our earliest Chinese immigrants flowed.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/2/2022 9:28:28 PM
Quote:
George, you say Quote:
The history of Chinese immigration to Canada begins in the latter part of the 18th century.
. Is this a typo? If not I am truly astounded.

I had thought that China was a closed society until Hong Kong was leased to Britain in 1842, and that was the gateway through which many of our earliest Chinese immigrants flowed.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G


I was unclear and was trying to indicate that the Chinese were coming here in an earlier part of North American history.

The first group of Chinese to come to Canada came in 1788 to your part of the world Brian, to Nootka Sound. They were part of a British expedition to set up a fur trading fort and had been selected as they were skilled workers; craftsmen and carpenters. There were 50 of them.

I believe that the British captain abandoned them at Nootka and I do not know what became of the group.

Of course, the first major influx of Chinese didn't occur until gold was discovered on the Fraser River in 1858.

Sorry if my post indicated that this was a major wave but I believe that the Nootka experiment was the first group of Chinese to arrive en masse in Canada.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 10:57:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Check 2-3, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

On 2-3, 1783, Spain recognizes US independence, yet in the coming decades the US will take territories from Spain!? Some friend! What say you??

1855 the Wisconsin Supreme Court declares the Fugitive Slave Law unconstitutional!? Other states followed, how did that go over down South!? Comments!?

1916 Canada's Parliament Buildings burn down!? What's the story there? Arsen?? Comments?


1917 US liner Housitanic sunk by German U boat! Why? & what resulted?? What say you?



----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 11:04:48 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Check 2-3, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

Other events were!??

1943 @ 1,000 Flying Fortresses drop 5,000 tons of bombs on Berlin! A gift to Hitler!! Comments??

1947 -63 degrees C in Snag, Yukon a N. American cold record, does it still.stand today!? Anyone??

1966 Russians land a unmanned craft on the moon, how did this effect the space race?? Comments?

Lots to discuss here!?
D



----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 11:51:47 AM
Dave,

Knowledge of aircraft and payloads of bombs is not my thing, but is that five thousand tons of bombs dropped by one thousand aircraft plausible ?

Five tons per aircraft seems a mighty weight.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 12:00:10 PM
Quote:
916 Canada's Parliament Buildings burn down!? What's the story there? Arsen?? Comments?


Parliamentarians liked to congregate in the Reading Room. There they would talk and read newspapers or books and they would also smoke.

On Feb. 3, Parliament was in session and PM Robert Borden was in the building. Black smoke began to fill the halls and the call went out to evacuate. Apparently Borden escaped by crawling on his hands and knees as the smoke thickened. The centre block of Parliament was involved.

Anyway, the Reading Room was an excellent source of fuel as paper was scattered all about on the tables and in the waste baskets. And too many people ignored the no smoking signs. And it was likely a smouldering cigar on a table or in a waste basket that led to the fire but the investigators could not say that conclusively.

It was a bad fire too. Firefighters managed to save the Parliamentary Library with its priceless books. Some MP's had to tie sheets and curtains together to climb out of second storey windows. The wife of the Speaker of the House was entertaining three other women in her private residence within the building and as they all evacuated, two of the women insisted upon heading back for their fur coats. They died. The third woman hung from a window and finally jumped into a net held by the fire fighters.

It was war time of course and the Canadian people immediately presumed that this was an act of German sabotage. The police rounded up anyone with an accent and locals reported anyone who seemed to be speaking in an accent. One fellow was from Belgium and he had a postcard in his pocket showing the Parliament buildings and he was kept in custody for quite a while. The postcard made him a suspect though I don't think that a saboteur would have needed a postcard to identify Parliament in Ottawa.

The government rebuilt Parliament but apparently it was not quite as grand as the initial build.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 6:33:48 PM
Thanks, George. I’ll be off to the provincial archives when restrictions are lowered; there are all kinds of contradictions in the story as I have been able to track it since you pointed it out. I note, e.g., that there may have as few as 30 Chinese according to some reports, but that might be a reflection of the sea voyage. That the ship bringing them was Portuguese sailing out of Macau, with a Portuguese pilot, suggests the source of the Chinese; there’s also a touch of circumventing East India rules and licensing provisions.

The Nootka area is still relatively isolated, or was in the mid-1980s when I did some assessment work for our Ministry of Education. Towns 65 km apart are 6 hours apart by road. Beautiful country, though not touristy.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 7:48:18 PM
Quote:
Dave,

Knowledge of aircraft and payloads of bombs is not my thing, but is that five thousand tons of bombs dropped by one thousand aircraft plausible ?

Five tons per aircraft seems a mighty weight.

Regards, Phil



Hi Phil,

Right you are! Misprint by me the TDH event listed 3,000 tons of bombs! Still seems like a lot?

# Is that possible for 1,000 Bombers???
Cheers,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/3/2022 9:12:10 PM
Quote:
Thanks, George. I’ll be off to the provincial archives when restrictions are lowered; there are all kinds of contradictions in the story as I have been able to track it since you pointed it out. I note, e.g., that there may have as few as 30 Chinese according to some reports, but that might be a reflection of the sea voyage. That the ship bringing them was Portuguese sailing out of Macau, with a Portuguese pilot, suggests the source of the Chinese; there’s also a touch of circumventing East India rules and licensing provisions.

The Nootka area is still relatively isolated, or was in the mid-1980s when I did some assessment work for our Ministry of Education. Towns 65 km apart are 6 hours apart by road. Beautiful country, though not touristy.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G



Hello Brian, if I recall the story correctly the captain of the vessel carrying the people involved in the Nootka expedition was not RN. In fact, he was a bit of a rogue trader who did not wish to register his vessel as British. That may have something to do with the fact that the Nootka area was coveted by Spain as well as Britain and the captain wished to circumvent any formal arrangements made between the two nations. And I still do not know what happened to the Chinese workers.

Cheers,

George
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/4/2022 2:45:47 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Dave,

Knowledge of aircraft and payloads of bombs is not my thing, but is that five thousand tons of bombs dropped by one thousand aircraft plausible ?

Five tons per aircraft seems a mighty weight.

Regards, Phil



Hi Phil,

Right you are! Misprint by me the TDH event listed 3,000 tons of bombs! Still seems like a lot?

# Is that possible for 1,000 Bombers???
Cheers,
MD


Thanks, Dave : the bombing of Berlin in early 1943 entailed long range sorties ; there were no bases in France or Italy at that time in Allied possession, so I would have thought that three tons per bomber is a bit of a stretch for that distance. I’m sure that those big bombers were able to carry that - and more - for a shorter range......but all the way to Berlin ?? My knowledge is too limited to speak with confidence , so I must defer to others on MHO more qualified that I am to intervene and clarify.

Edit : just resorting to Wikipedia reveals that the biggest raid was indeed on 3 February , but in 1945, not 1943 ! That makes the shorter range more reconcilable with such a tonnage of bombs : the number of bombers is cited at 1500 , not 1,000.....all starts to look more plausible now.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/4/2022 9:52:10 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Check 2-4, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

Other events were!?

1194 King Richard I, $100,000 paid for Ransom paid! What's the story on how this predicament hsppened?? What say you? Anyone??

1787 Shays Rebellion! Any comments or websites on this event?? Anyone?

1789 George Washington becomes 1st US President! How was he elected? Comments?

1810 Royal Navy seizes Guadeloupe! Back then did the RN just take what they wanted!??.what say you??

1822 Free American Blacks form Liberia in West Africa! What's the history behind this?? Anyone?

1861 Jefferson Davis elected president of the Confederacy! Was he the best choice? Comments?

1932 Japanese force take Manchuria, why wasn't anyone concerned?? What say you??

1938 Hitler siezes the German Army, No stopping him now!? Anyone??

1941 British Tanks occupy Lybia, how will they fare against the Afrika Korps!? Comments?
Lots to discuss here!?

1991 Alex Trebek a Canadian? Becomes 1st person to host 3 game shows at once? Any more on this famous Canuck??

Cheers,
D


BTW, Phil, Thanks for the corrections on the Americans bombing Berlin! I definitely have to wear my prescription glasses when I read things on this site! Blind as A bat!

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/4/2022 1:47:09 PM
Quote:
1810 Royal Navy seizes Guadeloupe! Back then did the RN just take what they wanted!??.what say you??


The British were in a great war against France and Napoleon and had been since 1793. It was a world war and Britain was fighting in the Mediterranean, India, the East Indies and the Caribbean. I have probably forgotten a few places. And toward the end of the conflict, Britain was forced to engage the US which determined to attack while Great Britain was all in against Napoleon.

The Sugar Islands of the Caribbean were prized by many of Europe's powers and the British lost a lot of men in trying to take islands from France and others. There was a brief hiatus in 1802 and GB returned a lot of the islands to the original owners.

The war heated up again and in 1806 Napoleon took measures to block the British from trading. Britain then imposed a blockade of European ports. Napoleon had decreed that all trade with Britain would be stopped.

And so Britain decided to seize islands in French hands. I think that there was a little payback at work as when the British were occupied with an insurrection in the 13 colonies, the French took the opportunity to become dominant in the Caribbean. They also took the time to sail north to aid the 13 colonists at Yorktown. That done, they headed back to the Caribbean to consolidate.

There were a number of exchanges of island properties in the period following the American Revolution and that included Britain taking French and Spanish held islands.

In 1810, Guadaloupe was the last remaining French controlled island. The British had taken the others in the previous year.

So Britain did prize the Sugar Islands but I mentioned that a war was on and French privateers were operating out of the Caribbean and disrupting British trade. So the RN had blockaded French ports in the islands and the French people and slave owners on those islands were getting desperate. They sent messages asking France to relieve them.

France tried but RN vessels intercepted most French supply vessels. To attack Guadeloupe, Britain had to gather troops from their own island possessions and when they had enough, they invaded and seized Guadeloupe.

So no, the RN could not take whatever it wanted, when it wanted. There were times when other navies had a say in the matter.

Cheers,

George



Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/5/2022 9:19:04 AM
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Check 2-4, & 2-5, in history, for topics.?
Anything for discussion??
cheers,
MD

Other 2-4 events were!?

1194 King Richard I, $100,000 paid for Ransom paid! What's the story on how this predicament hsppened?? What say you? Anyone??

1787 Shays Rebellion! Any comments or websites on this event?? Anyone?

1789 George Washington becomes 1st US President! How was he elected? Comments?

1822 Free American Blacks form Liberia in West Africa! What's the history behind this?? Anyone?

1861 Jefferson Davis elected president of the Confederacy! Was he the best choice? Comments?

1932 Japanese force take Manchuria, why wasn't anyone concerned?? What say you??

1938 Hitler siezes the German Army, No stopping him now!? Anyone??

1941 British Tanks occupy Lybia, how will they fare against the Afrika Korps!? Comments?
Lots to discuss here!?

1991 Alex Trebek a Canadian? Becomes 1st person to host 3 game shows at once? Any more on this famous Canuck??

Here is 2-5, historical events! Comments??

1803 English Explorer, George Bass sets sail from Sydney Australia, to Tahiti, & S.America! & He is never seen again!? Does anyone have anything on this mystery!??

1864 the Union takes Jackson, MS. How did cutting the Confederacy in two, with control of the Mississippi hurt the South!? What say you?? Was the lack of a substantial navy really an achillies heel to the Confederates?? CW guys , any comments??

1885 the news on the fall of Khartoum reaches London! Who was responsible for this loss? How did the Empire respond!?

1900 the US & the UK sign a treaty over Panama Canal! How was the UK involved?? That's a surprise, anyone??

1904 the US gives Cuba back to the Cubans! See the US is not always imperialistic! Comments non believers!?

358 RAF bombers attack Stettin in 1944, how did this go over? At this point do the Allies for some part, control the skies!? What say you??

1945, Big 3 meet at Malta! Did WSC represent Canada, too?? Anyone?

1945 Douglas MacArthur returns to Manila! Why we he so criticized by some? Even called Dugout Doug! Why??

back again to 1788 Bobbies take to London's streets! Were they the 1st actual police force!??

Tons to discuss here! Anyone???
Cheers,
D


Right you are Brian, I ment Bobbies!? My Tablet prints what it thinks I mean!? Not what I actually type! If I don't proof read it, it could be ridiculous! Like Hobbies instead of Bobbies??



----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/5/2022 10:06:50 AM
Quote:
1904 the US gives Cuba back to the Cubans! See the US is not always imperialistic! Comments non believers!?


It would be imprudent to lavish such praise MD. US troops were back in Cuba by 1906 to quell an uprising.

And the 1902 agreement between the US and Cuba may have granted independence but also included clauses that gave the US the right to intervene in Cuban affairs whenever they wished. Cuba had no control over finances or foreign affairs.

There was an amendment passed in the US called the Platt Amendment that set out the conditions by which the US would agree to grant Cuban independence. The amendment was attached to the Army Appropriations Bill and was further attached to the Cuban constitution. The Cubans did not want this Platt Amendment at all but what choice did they have.

The US did not really grant independence. They created a US protectorate.

EDIT: not officially a protectorate but Cuba was still under the control of the US.

So the Platt Amendment set out the conditions for intervention in US affairs by the US and its also established the creation of USN bases on Cuba by allowing the US to buy or lease Cuban territory. We are all know about Guantanamo. The article that authorized the establishment of these bases was couched in language that made it sound as though these naval bases were to be created to protect the independence of Cuba.

By this amendment, Cuba was not permitted to sign a treaty with any other country that gave it any power over its affairs. Cuba could not go into debt. They had to allow the US to develop a sanitation programme on the island.

Article III of the Platt Amendment was the one that ensured that the Cubans were not truly independent. By signing Cuba conceded that the US had the right to intervene in Cuban affairs for:

Quote:
the preservation of Cuban independence, the maintenance of a government adequate for the protection of life, property, and individual liberty, and for discharging the obligations with respect to Cuba imposed by the Treaty of Paris on the United States, now to be assumed and undertaken by the Government of Cuba.”


So the newly independent nation of Cuba saw intervention by the US in 1906, 1912, 1917 and 1920. The Cubans were becoming very concerned about the Platt Amendment and FDR repealed it in 1934. But that didn't stop the US from intervening by other means as the Batista era began in 1952.

The struggling nation of Cuba could not have been characterized as a model for peace and good governance in 1902 but it is also incorrect to characterize the agreement between the US and Cuba as one that granted true independence.

The following is the transcript of the Platt Amendment. To me it doesn't establish independence.

Quote:

"I.-That the government of Cuba shall never enter into any treaty or other compact with any foreign power or powers which will impair or tend to impair the independence of Cuba, nor in any manner authorize or permit any foreign power or powers to obtain by colonization or for military or naval purposes or otherwise, lodgement in or control over any portion of said island."

"II. That said government shall not assume or contract any public debt, to pay the interest upon which, and to make reasonable sinking fund provision for the ultimate discharge of which, the ordinary revenues of the island, after defraying the current expenses of government shall be inadequate."

"III. That the government of Cuba consents that the United States may exercise the right to intervene for the preservation of Cuban independence, the maintenance of a government adequate for the protection of life, property, and individual liberty, and for discharging the obligations with respect to Cuba imposed by the treaty of Paris on the United States, now to be assumed and undertaken by the government of Cuba."

"IV. That all Acts of the United States in Cuba during its military occupancy thereof are ratified and validated, and all lawful rights acquired thereunder shall be maintained and protected."

"V. That the government of Cuba will execute, and as far as necessary extend, the plans already devised or other plans to be mutually agreed upon, for the sanitation of the cities of the island, to the end that a recurrence of epidemic and infectious diseases may be prevented, thereby assuring protection to the people and commerce of Cuba, as well as to the commerce of the southern ports of the United States and the people residing therein."

"VI. That the Isle of Pines shall be omitted from the proposed constitutional boundaries of Cuba, the title thereto being left to future adjustment by treaty."

"VII. That to enable the United States to maintain the independence of Cuba, and to protect the people thereof, as well as for its own defense, the government of Cuba will sell or lease to the United States lands necessary for coaling or naval stations at certain specified points to be agreed upon with the President of the United States."

"VIII. That by way of further assurance the government of Cuba will embody the foregoing provisions in a permanent treaty with the United States."



Cheers,

George





George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/5/2022 1:08:59 PM
Quote:
1991 Alex Trebek a Canadian? Becomes 1st person to host 3 game shows at once? Any more on this famous Canuck??


It seems that he was an appealing sort. Otherwise, why so much attention paid to a quiz master? He was also associated with a game show that was somewhat more intellectual than say, Wheel of Fortune or Family Feud. So on the quiz master rating scale, I suppose that he was tops.

Anyway, he was born in Sudbury, Ontario which is about 5 hours north of Toronto in mining country. But he moved to Ottawa and people often call that his home town.

Univ. of Ottawa grad but he decided to go into journalism and got a job with the CBC. Trebek was a jack of all trades with CBC.
I remember him as the host of show called Reach for the Top which was not unlike Jeopardy in that questions were posed to two high school teams and points awarded for correct answers.

I actually represented my suburban high school on this show where we were royally trounced by the hoity toity girls from Havergal private school. We found out that they had actually practiced and had a coach. We just hopped on the bus and came to the studio. NO FAIR. However, Alex wasn't the emcee that day. He had been replaced by a woman named Jan Tennant for that week of taping.

Trebek also hosted another show called Jackpot before he left for the states and the big bucks.

Here's Alex hosting one of the Reach for the Top games. No, I'm not in it.

[Read More]

I said that Alex did a lot of different things for CBC. Here he is hosting Music Hop.

[Read More]

Ah, black and white TV. Those were the days.

Cheers,

George
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