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Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/3/2022 9:12:12 PM
NYG, you say: Quote:
General George Washington is informed that a conspiracy is afoot to discredit him with Congress and have him replaced by General Horatio Gates. Thomas Conway, who would be made inspector general of the United States less than two months later on December 14, led the effort; as such, it became known as the Conway Cabal.

Conway, who was born in Ireland but raised in France, entered the French army in 1749. He was recruited to the Patriot cause by Silas Deane, the American ambassador to France, and after meeting with Washington at Morristown in May 1777, he was appointed brigadier general and assigned to Major General John Sullivan’s division.

Conway served admirably under Sullivan at the battles of Brandywine, in September 1777, and Germantown, in October 1777, before becoming involved in an unconfirmed conspiracy to remove General Washington from command of the Continental Army.

After the Continental Army suffered several defeats in the fall of 1777, some members of Congress expressed displeasure with Washington’s leadership and Conway began writing letters to prominent leaders, including General Horatio Gates, that were critical of Washington. After Washington got wind of Conway’s letter to General Gates, he responded with a letter to Congress in January 1778. Embarrassed, Conway offered his resignation in March 1778 by way of apology, and was surprised and humiliated when Congress accepted. After General John Cadwalader wounded him in a duel defending Washington’s honor, Conway returned to France, where he died in exile in 1800.


The event occurred in 1777. I learned that when I read words identical to NYG’s in today’s “This Day in History”.

I get the use of sources; I do that myself. But this meets every criterion for plagiarism I’ve ever seen. It takes so little to cite your sources, and is so problematic when you don’t.

DT, thanks for the further information on the topic. And thanks for noting your information comes from a source you are reading!

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/3/2022 10:02:39 PM
No devil’s advocate around? While I fully agree that Shakespeare (Shakspere/Shakespere) is a capable, challenging poet, I’m not totally convinced he was an unparalleled dramatist. I’ve read a lot of Elizabethan drama (think Marlowe and Kydd, just for two) whose words challenge Shakespeare’s as drama in their surviving works.

I’m not naysaying Shakespeare as such. His language is typically beautiful and his lines often memorable. But the same can be said of other writers roughly contemporary. Spenser is, I would argue, Shakespeare’s equal in bringing the English language to new levels. I might argue that the six books and Mutability Cantos of the Faerie Queene are philosophically more sophisticated than anything Shakespeare attempted, but know that is personal preference. Ben Jonson, who I believe said of Shakespeare that he had “small Latin and less Greek”, wrote series of both sophisticated court works and powerful lyric verse.

To some extent – still playing devil’s advocate – I think the adulation provided Shakespeare is a diminishment of the richness of language, culture, belief and faith reflected in English writers from the beginning of the reign of Henry VIII to the death of at least James I (James VI of Scotland).

As to the comments about Canada’s Stratford, I agree with George. At one point they almost became a Shaw Festival site, but the drama they offer is typically first-rate.

Cheers
Brian G


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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 7:43:56 AM
This is a chat room, not an academic research site. And I have already posted that I am taking this from This Day in History.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 8:02:24 AM
Quote:
This is a chat room, not an academic research site. And I have already posted that I am taking this from This Day in History.



It is fraudulent behaviour on your part. It is dishonest both academically and morally. You don't just introduce a topic with a copy and paste from This Day, you also respond to other posts by cherry picking lines from the that site and others sites. When you find a sentence in any site that seems to corroborate your point of view, you cut and paste that sentence and present it as your own. So it's not just This Day in History that you use.

Most of us think of this forum as more than a chat room. That is what you call it and from your initial foray into this space you have treated MHO like a low level chat room, replete with baits and insults.

Do us the courtesy of citing or giving a reference to everything that is not your own creation. How hard can that be? Why are you stubbornly refusing to be honest?

When others know your sources, they have valuable information especially since it is from the web. The reader may want to assess whether a site is known for its reliability and honesty; whether to trust it in other words. There are sites that rate other sites for reliability, honesty and bias. Valuable information.

Right now you're taking up space with a full transplant of every article from This Day.

Just put the url for This Day in a READ MORE. I will show you how that is done. Someone showed me many years ago. And if that is too embarrassing then just go to the HELP section listed at the top of the page. It explains how to use the different tools on the forum.

So simple and then we would know where you got your stuff from.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 10:19:58 AM
Quote:
November 1, & 2, in World history!

Nov. 1, 1512 Michelangelo finishes the Sistene Chapel! I always thought it was the sixteen chapels, & he did a lot of art work on it? Now I got to rethink it!?? ☺ help?

1611 William Shakespeare's Tempest is played to great reviews!? I don't get it what makes this dude so great?? What say you??

11-1, 1952 the US tests Thermol nuclear bomb! Just what does that mean?? Anyone?

1776 the Stamp Act is enforced in the Colonies! Just another thing to piss off the future Americans!? Comments?

1994 NASA expands exploration towards the sun! Comments on the future of NASA it seems diminished lately? What say you?

11-2 in history,

1755 Marie Antoinette is born, how will she effect France, & their monarchy, government & is she the one who loses her head?? Anyone?

1889, both North, & South Dakota admitted as states!? Despite the low populations they are allowed 2 Senators each!? Does the scure power in the upper house??

1917 Britain seeks a home state for Jewish people in Palestine!? Is this fair?? Comments?

1936 the BBC comes into existence!? Is it fair balance news network!? What say you??

1949 Indonesia becomes independent from the Netherlands! Was there conflicts?? Anyone?

1983 President Reagan makes MLK Jr. Day a national holiday!? It did take away Presidents Day as a holiday, honoring Washington, & Lincoln?! What do you think about that??

2000 Russians come to the International space station! How many countries are still involved today?? Is your nation involved? Any good websites on it?

Any new topics?
Carry on!
Cheers,
MD



Moving on to Nov. 3, & 4, in this day in World history from encyclopedia Britainnica! Our primary source as always!

November 3rd events below!??

1793, Steven Austin the founder of Texas is born! Anyone on this great Texan, who has a city named after him!?

1903 Panama declares independence from Columbia!? Did the US stay out of this conflict? Comments??

1956, the Wizard of Oz Premiers on TV! You had to love it as A youngster!? I loved the Cowardly Lion, " I tried counting sheep, but I'm afraid of them"!? What's your favorite part?? Anyone??

1956 the Soviet s Sputnik, launches the 1st living creature, A dog into space! Was this humane? What say you on using animals?? Later they used chimpanzees!???

1998 A large section of the Great wall of China is discovered!? Did the Great wall actually keep invaders out?? What say you?? Can it be seen from space??

Let's move on to November 4th!?

1842 Abe Lincoln marries Mary Todd Lincoln! Comments on this 1st Lady!? Anyone??

1922 British Archeologists Howard Carter discovers the Tomb of King Tut! Later members of his party mysteriously die!? Did the tomb have curses?? What say you??

1979 the Hostage crisis in Iran begins!? How did that play out? Anyone??

On this day 1980 Reagan, & 2008 Obama become Presidents! Back then this could happen peacefully! ? Wishing for more peaceful transitions of power in the future??

Peace, & regards,
MD

Any new events, or past ones?? Anyone??
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 11:01:14 AM
Eighty years ago Rommel realised the game was up and abandoned any further attempts to hold his position in the Second Battle of El Alamein. Nearly two weeks of intense attritional combat had done its work, and the Axis forces began a desperate retirement with the Italian units being left to their fate as the Germans quit the field. The German commander von Thoma was captured, though .

I’ve got a bit of skin in the game in this story : my dad was there.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 12:24:22 PM
Hi Phil,

You have to be proud of your father! I know how you feel .my late father, John, was in the Pacific fighting the Japanese at New Guinea, to the Philippines! We're lucky to be here! .Are'nt we? If you.wish. Feel free to share any facts.or stories your dad may have shared.about the battle!??

Thanks,
Dave
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 12:56:52 PM
Quote:
1979 the Hostage crisis in Iran begins!? How did that play out? Anyone??


The Mesopotamia region is oil rich in some places and therefore a place of great interest for many countries. The Persians or Iranians still call that interest, political interference. Britain had been especially influential even prior to WWI

During WWII both Russia and Great Britain invaded Persia. The argument used to justify the invasion was that the Persians were supporters of Germany. The Shah was deposed and his son was installed as a puppet. That was fine until the early '50's when the government nationalized the oil industry. That was problematic for the west.

The US got involved when Britain asked for help. And a CIA operation to foment unrest in Iran got underway. People were killed on the street. The goal of the operation was to depose the elected PM who had nationalized the oil industry. The CIA sponsored coup was successful and the PM was imprisoned. The Shah was installed and he ran the show. It was a dictatorship and the Iranian secret police tortured and killed a lot of Iranians. It was reported that the CIA trained the Iranian secret police in interrogation methods including torture. I don't know whether that has been confirmed.

It helps to understand where the roots of hatred of the west and particularly the US began.

By 1979 there was considerable unrest in Iran with the secular side at odds with the theocrats. Many countries including the US had withdrawn many diplomats and were operating with small staffs. When the Shah went to the US for cancer treatment the revolution began. Iran demanded that the Shah be returned home to face trial but the US refused and imposed economic sanctions on the rebels. The Ayatollah Khomeini became leader of Iran.

A bunch of students entered the US embassy and held the diplomats inside, calling them all US spies. I never understood who was making the calls in Iran. I know that Khomeini supported the students but it was the students that demanded that all Americans be put on trial for espionage. Perhaps they were a convenient chip for Iran to play in a game against the US.

How many think that Jimmy Carter's bid for a second election victory in 1980 was scuppered because of his management of the hostage crisis?

Pres. Carter authorized a rescue mission in 1980 that was a failure due to a sandstorm that destroyed helicopters. The mission was aborted. Carter was being challenged by Kennedy to carry the Democrat banner and this event may have sealed the deal. He was perceived as a weak President.

Iran received condemnation from countries around the world and in the UN Security Council. The Ayatollah let 13 hostages go saying that they had been cleared and were not spies but Iran kept threatening to put the remaining hostages on trial for all sorts of trumped up charges.

It took a year of negotiations with Algeria acting as an intermediary before a deal was struck that resulted in the release of the hostages. I don't the terms but I seem to recall that Iranian assets held in the US were released and that the Iranians were supposed to pay money to any people hurt by the revolution.


I am going to add that early in the invasion of the US embassy six US diplomats were wandering the streets of Tehran seeking refuge. Eventually all six wound up in the Canadian embassy under the protection of Ambassador Ken Taylor. These diplomats, after a lengthy stay at the Canadian embassy were eventually spirited out of Iran and home. They had been in the protection of the Canadian embassy in two different homes for 79 days.

EDIT: Check that. Some of the Americans stayed at Taylor's house in Tehran while others stayed with another embassy staffer whose name I should remember but I cannot right now.

This event became known as the "Canadian Caper". The US citizens flew home on flights arranged by the Canadian embassy and the six joined other Canadians who were heading home. The CIA became involved at the last minute and came up with some cover story for the US diplomats that the Canadians though was silly.

Canada was just going to issue Canadian passports to them and get them on the plane as Canadian embassy staff. Jimmy Carter confirmed that the hostage rescue was 90% a Canadian operation.

Why do I point that out? It is because of the release of a movie called Argo with Ben Affleck in it. Canadians were extremely upset at this movie because its portrayal of the Canadians as ineffective bystanders was far from the truth of what actually happened. It is one of the more egregious Hollywood attempts to rewrite history. The Canadian diplomats involved weren't looking for praise. This was just one ally helping another. Instead we were treated to the passive and somewhat befuddled Canadians waiting for the CIA to swoop in and ave the day.

The CIA spent one day in Tehran. You wouldn't know that if you watched Argo.

Too bad because when news of the release of the six was told to Americans, the relationship between Canada and the US was at its highest level. It was a good news story out of Iran when all other stories seemed to indicate a bleak future for the remaining hostages.

Cheers,

George






Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 3:41:29 PM
Quote:
Hi Phil,

You have to be proud of your father! I know how you feel .my late father, John, was in the Pacific fighting the Japanese at New Guinea, to the Philippines! We're lucky to be here! .Are'nt we? If you.wish. Feel free to share any facts.or stories your dad may have shared.about the battle!??

Thanks,
Dave


Hi Dave,

We all wrestle with our demons, don’t we ? Right now I’m dealing with a family trauma : now and then - and today is such a moment - it helps to reflect on the ordeal by fire that our fathers ( and mothers) underwent. This lends a sense of perspective and can really help us cope .

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 5:00:29 PM
Quote:
1903 Panama declares independence from Columbia!? Did the US stay out of this conflict? Comments??


No, the US did not stay out of this affair. It was determined that a canal would be built through the Isthmus of Panama and to do that meant that a treaty with Colombia would have to be concluded as what would become Panama was Columbian territory.

So the US and Colombia worked out a deal but the Colombian legislature did not approve of the deal. From their perspective, the deal violated Colombian sovereignty. Without ratification, the deal was dead.

Not so fast. Separatists in the Panama area were encouraged by the US to seek independence and by the French architect who wanted to build it. And so a revolution took place with US navy vessels protecting the rebels. In fact, the US prevented a Columbian force from intervening in the revolt.

And in short order, Panama was an independent country. The French engineer, Bunau-Varilla actually wrote the Panamanian declaration of independence and the Panamanian constitution.

I don't know what gave Bunau-Varilla the authority to act on behalf of the Panamanians but he also helped set up the Isthmus Convention that would lead to the building of the canal.

The US concluded a treaty with Panama with Bunau-Varilla as the Panamanian representative and of course that treaty was a sweet deal for the US.

1. The US was given control of the Panama Canal Zone in perpetuity.
2. The US was entitled to acquire more land as it saw fit to help it operate the canal
3. Panama was excluded from governance in the canal zone

The US bought the French company that had the rights to build the canal. The US gave a lump sum to Panama and later would pay a yearly annuity in exchange for the canal zone.

I don't feel that Panama was an independent nation. It was controlled by the US and Panama would insist that beyond allowing the US to build the canal, it never intended that the US would be the sole governing body of the canal zone.

The US was quite pushy in 1903. In that same year, Teddy Roosevelt hinted that he was ready to send the USN and the marines if the Alaska Boundary dispute didn't go his way. It did of course.

George

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 6:03:43 PM
This is not an academic site, its a large bulletin board/ chat room.



George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 8:25:25 PM
Quote:
This is not an academic site, its a large bulletin board/ chat room.






Difference between a forum and a chat room:

[Read More]

In either format, you are still engaging in dishonest participation. Provide references for work that is not your own on this forum.

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/4/2022 10:16:12 PM

A discussion board (known also by various other names such as discussion group, discussion forum, message board, and online forum) is a general term for any online "bulletin board" where you can leave and expect to see responses to messages you have left.

forum = bulletin board.

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 4:43:41 AM
On November 5, 1941, the Combined Japanese Fleet receive Top-Secret Order No. 1: In just over a month's time, Pearl Harbor is to be bombed, along with Malaya (now known as Malaysia), the Dutch East Indies and the Philippines.

Relations between the United States and Japan had been deteriorating quickly since Japan’s occupation of Indochina in 1940 and the implicit menacing of the Philippines (an American protectorate), with the occupation of the Cam Ranh naval base approximately 800 miles from Manila. American retaliation included the seizing of all Japanese assets in the States and the closing of the Panama Canal to Japanese shipping. In September 1941, President Roosevelt issued a statement, drafted by British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, that threatened war between the United States and Japan should the Japanese encroach any further on territory in Southeast Asia or the South Pacific.

The Japanese military had long dominated Japanese foreign affairs; although official negotiations between the U.S. secretary of state and his Japanese counterpart to ease tensions were ongoing, Hideki Tojo, the minister of war who would soon be prime minister, had no intention of withdrawing from captured territories. He also construed the American “threat” of war as an ultimatum and prepared to deliver the first blow in a Japanese-American confrontation: the bombing of Pearl Harbor.​

And so Tokyo delivered the order to all pertinent Fleet commanders, that not only the United States—and its protectorate the Philippines—but British and Dutch colonies in the Pacific were to be attacked. War was going to be declared on the West.
================================================== ================================================== ============================================

A visit to Pearl Harbor is a very moving experience. I was there in May of this year, and you can still see oil coming from the USS Arizona.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 5:37:08 AM
A tortured relationship ends when President Abraham Lincoln removes General George B. McClellan from command of the Army of the Potomac. McClellan ably built the army in the early stages of the war but was a sluggish and paranoid field commander who seemed unable to muster the courage to aggressively engage Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia.

McClellan was a promising commander who served as a railroad president before the war. In the early stages of the conflict, troops under McClellan’s command scored several important victories in the struggle for western Virginia. Lincoln summoned “Young Napoleon,” as some called the general, to Washington, D.C., to take control of the Army of the Potomac a few days after its humiliating defeat at the Battle of First Bull Run, Virginia in July 1861. Over the next nine months, McClellan capably built a strong army, drilling his troops and assembling an efficient command structure. However, he also developed extreme contempt for the president, and often dismissed Lincoln’s suggestions out of hand.

In 1862, McClellan led the army down Chesapeake Bay to the James Peninsula, southeast of the Confederate capital at Richmond, Virginia. During this campaign, he exhibited the timidity and sluggishness that later doomed him. During the Seven Days Battles, McClellan was poised near Richmond but retreated when faced with a series of attacks by Lee. McClellan always believed that he was vastly outnumbered, though he actually had the numerical advantage. He spent the rest of the summer camped on the peninsula while Lincoln began moving much of his command to General John Pope’s Army of Virginia.


After Lee defeated Pope at the Second Battle of Bull Run in late August, 1862he invaded Maryland. With the Confederates crashing into Union territory, Lincoln had no choice but to turn to McClellan to gather the reeling Yankee forces and stop Lee. On September 17, 1862, McClellan and Lee battled to a standstill along Antietam Creek near Sharpsburg, Maryland. Lee retreated back to Virginia and McClellan ignored Lincoln’ surging to pursue him. For six weeks, Lincoln and McClellan exchanged angry messages, but McClellan stubbornly refused to march after Lee. In late October, McClellan finally began moving across the Potomac in feeble pursuit of Lee, but he took nine days to complete the crossing. Lincoln had seen enough. Convinced that McClellan could never defeat Lee, Lincoln notified the general on November 5 of his removal. A few days later, Lincoln named General Ambrose Burnside to be the commander of the Army of the Potomac.




After his removal, McClellan battled with Lincoln once more–for the presidency in 1864. McClellan won the Democratic nomination but was easily defeated by his old boss.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 5:40:28 AM
On November 5, 1940, Franklin Delano Roosevelt is re-elected for an unprecedented third term as president of the United States.

Roosevelt was elected to a third term with the promise of maintaining American neutrality as far as foreign wars were concerned: “Let no man or woman thoughtlessly or falsely talk of American people sending its armies to European fields.” But as Hitler’s war spread, and the desperation of Britain grew, the president fought for passage of the Lend-Lease Act in Congress, in March 1941, which would commit financial aid to Great Britain and other allies. In August, Roosevelt met with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill to proclaim the Atlantic Charter, which would become the basis of the United Nations; they also drafted a statement to the effect that the United States “would be compelled to take countermeasures” should Japan further encroach in the southwest Pacific.

Despite ongoing negotiations with Japan, that “further encroachment” took the form of the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor—”a day that would live in infamy.” The next day Roosevelt requested, and received, a declaration of war against Japan. On December 11, Germany and Italy declared war on the United States.




Certain wartime decisions by Roosevelt proved controversial, such as the demand of unconditional surrender of the Axis powers, which some claim prolonged the war. Another was the acquiescence to Joseph Stalin of certain territories in the Far East in exchange for his support in the war against Japan. Roosevelt is often accused of being too naive where Stalin was concerned, especially in regard to “Uncle Joe’s” own imperial desires.
========================================================================================================================================================
The right man at the right time in US History, he led the US through the 2 crises of the 20th Century, the Great Depression and World War II.

Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 6:28:26 AM
Here's something I'd like to add, covering a large amount of the things we've been discussing.

The source :

UNFINISHED EMPIRE : The Global Expansion of Britain. Author is John Darwin.

I'm two thirds of the way through, and couldn't resist posting this passage from page 335, depicting the challenge posed by the geo strategic situation in the inter war years .

It was the familiar dilemma of a globe-spread empire : which threat would come soonest ? Where would attack be most dangerous ? Which deterrents would work ? And where to deploy them ? These were hard questions. What made them much harder was a geopolitical landscape swept by revolutionary change. By the mid 1930s, of the world's larger powers, only Britan and France retained any commitment to the existing world order and its distribution of wealth. British leaders grasped little of the ethnic and ideological conflicts that had galvanised Europe. They were poorly prepared for the brutal contempt that Hitler displayed towards diplomatic convention and towards those he regarded as his racial inferiors. In this vertiginous world , to which the past was no guide, they groped their way blindly into the last and worst crisis of the British world - system.

I recommend this book. It has a lot to say about North America, and the members of this forum will, I think, benefit from reading it.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 7:15:57 AM
Thanks for that recommendation, Phil. During the inter-war years did Britons and the government still subscribe to "splendid isolation" as the best way to engage or not engage with other nations? I had thought that Britain was content to watch Europe to ensure that there was a balance of power amongst the European nations to ensure that they could live in splendid isolation. Does that mean a hands off approach until necessary?

If so, at what point in the 20's and '30's should they have realized that they hadn't been paying attention? Or perhaps they were but were flummoxed by the developments that they witnessed.

John Darwin's comment is quite damning of the British governments of the period I think,but also implies that the foreign service was not aware of what was transpiring on the continent and in Asia. That, I find hard to believe given that Britain had eyes and ears everywhere.

Sounds like a good book. You mentioned that it has relevance to North Americans. Have you read far enough to notice whether he differentiates between the different countries in North America in his analysis?

Cheers,

George

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 7:36:05 AM
Quote:

A discussion board (known also by various other names such as discussion group, discussion forum, message board, and online forum) is a general term for any online "bulletin board" where you can leave and expect to see responses to messages you have left.

forum = bulletin board.



You're ignoring the message, NY. And deflecting attention away from the problem of plagiarism and dishonesty.

I would like to read what you have to say about a topic or issue on this forum written in your own words, but you appear to be incapable of doing that.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 7:38:19 AM
A book to read before Darwin's is The Influence of Sea Power Upon History by Alfred Mahan. This book was in the wardrooms of all Naval vessels.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
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This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 7:41:11 AM
Quote:
Quote:

A discussion board (known also by various other names such as discussion group, discussion forum, message board, and online forum) is a general term for any online "bulletin board" where you can leave and expect to see responses to messages you have left.

forum = bulletin board.



You're ignoring the message, NY. And deflecting attention away from the problem of plagiarism and dishonesty.

I would like to read what you have to say about a topic or issue on this forum written in your own words, but you appear to be incapable of doing.


On the contrary, I am showing examples that forums are considered bulletin boards.

I've shown examples of my writing on other subjects here. After all, isn't the purpose of MHO to promote discussion of military history?
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 8:34:07 AM
Quote:
Thanks for that recommendation, Phil. During the inter-war years did Britons and the government still subscribe to "splendid isolation" as the best way to engage or not engage with other nations? I had thought that Britain was content to watch Europe to ensure that there was a balance of power amongst the European nations to ensure that they could live in splendid isolation. Does that mean a hands off approach until necessary?

If so, at what point in the 20's and '30's should they have realized that they hadn't been paying attention? Or perhaps they were but were flummoxed by the developments that they witnessed.

John Darwin's comment is quite damning of the British governments of the period I think,but also implies that the foreign service was not aware of what was transpiring on the continent and in Asia. That, I find hard to believe given that Britain had eyes and ears everywhere.

Sounds like a good book. You mentioned that it has relevance to North Americans. Have you read far enough to notice whether he differentiates between the different countries in North America in his analysis?

Cheers,

George



George,

The scope of the book is immense, covering centuries and continents. It’s a nuanced narrative. Darwin might seem excoriating at times, but he gives a sympathetic and flattering interpretation as well.
He most definitely differentiates between Canada and the US, and carries that further into the varying traditions and demographics within the countries themselves .
Some British statesmen abhorred the notion of Isolationism and advocated quite the opposite. Given the enormity of the subject, the book is a bit of a challenge, covering the global reach through the continents and oceans of the world. It’s a tour de force. So much information is imparted that the reader might recoil with overload syndrome, but the themes are still well defined and immensely thought provoking. I hope that I haven’t oversold it, but I did think of you, George, as a person who would be especially appreciative of it.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 10:50:28 AM
Sold Phil. Darwin's book is on my kindle reader. I have just started a book by Tim Cook of the Canadian War Museum. The title is Lifesavers and Body Snatchers. It's about the Canadian medical corps and the advancement in medical techniques and delivery in the Great War. I don't seem to be very good at reading two or three books at the same time. I usually wind up concentrating on one while the other two gather dust. Then I have to start over. But I have Darwin's book and will get to it.

Cheers,


George
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/5/2022 4:01:21 PM
Quote:
Sold Phil. Darwin's book is on my kindle reader. I have just started a book by Tim Cook of the Canadian War Museum. The title is Lifesavers and Body Snatchers. It's about the Canadian medical corps and the advancement in medical techniques and delivery in the Great War. I don't seem to be very good at reading two or three books at the same time. I usually wind up concentrating on one while the other two gather dust. Then I have to start over. But I have Darwin's book and will get to it.

Cheers,


George



How gratifying this is ! To be enthralled by a book, and to try and share the enthusiasm, and to have imparted that sense to a highly esteemed fellow MHOer, is a bit of a joy to me.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 6:38:49 AM
Abraham Lincoln is elected the 16th president of the United States over a deeply divided Democratic Party, becoming the first Republican to win the presidency. Lincoln received only 40 percent of the popular vote but handily defeated the three other candidates: Southern Democrat John C. Breckinridge, Constitutional Union candidate John Bell, and Northern Democrat Stephen Douglas, a U.S. senator for Illinois.


Lincoln, a Kentucky-born lawyer and former Whig representative to Congress, first gained national stature during his campaign against Stephen Douglas of Illinois for a U.S. Senate seat in 1858. The senatorial campaign featured a remarkable series of public encounters on the slavery issue, known as the Lincoln-Douglas debates, in which Lincoln argued against the spread of slavery, while Douglas maintained that each territory should have the right to decide whether it would become free or slave. Lincoln lost the Senate race, but his campaign brought national attention to the young Republican Party. In 1860, Lincoln won the party’s presidential nomination.



In the November 1860 election, Lincoln again faced Douglas, who represented the Northern faction of a heavily divided Democratic Party, as well as Breckinridge and Bell. The announcement of Lincoln’s victory signaled the secession of the Southern states, which since the beginning of the year had been publicly threatening secession if the Republicans gained the White House.



By the time of Lincoln’s inauguration on March 4, 1861, seven states had seceded, and the Confederate States of America had been formally established, with Jefferson Davis as its elected president. One month later, the American Civil War began when Confederate forces under General P.G.T. Beauregard opened fire on Union-held Fort Sumter in South Carolina. In 1863, as the tide turned against the Confederacy, Lincoln emancipated slaves within the rebellious states and in 1864 won reelection. In April 1865, he was assassinated by Confederate sympathizer John Wilkes Booth at Ford’s Theatre in Washington, D.C. The attack came only five days after the American Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of Confederate General Robert E. Lee at Appomattox.

For preserving the Union and bringing an end to slavery, and for his unique character and powerful oratory, Lincoln is hailed as one of the greatest American presidents.
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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 10:25:54 AM
Yeah, we have a 15 yard penalty on the New York Giants, for plagiarism!! ☺

Also today 11-6-1861 in history, James Naismith, the Canadian who invented Basketball, was born! Not many people know a Canadian developer of basketball!? What's the story on this? Anyone??

1917 the Bolsheviks sieze power in Russia!. How did this effect WWI & the future of Russia!? Anyone??

Other things to discuss on November 6,!? Comments??

Cheers,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 12:11:46 PM
Quote:
Also today 11-6-1861 in history, James Naismith, the Canadian who invented Basketball, was born! Not many people know a Canadian developer of basketball!? What's the story on this? Anyone??


Well, many Canadians know this fact. Naismith was born in Almonte, Ontario. He received his first degree at McGill University in Montréal where he was an outstanding multi-sport athlete. McGill hired him as an athletic director. He began to study theology with the thought to becoming a minister.

But he changed his mind and opted to go to the YMCA Training Centre in Springfield, Massachusetts to receive certification as an instructor with the "Y". One of his assignments was to invent a game that would make use of the gyms which were not well used during the winter.

Recalling a childhood game called "duck on a rock" that he played with the other kids in Almonte, he invented the game of Basket Ball as he called it. He obtained a couple of peach baskets from the building superintendent and wrote a few rules down and then presented the new game to his class at Springfield.

The game was played with a soccer ball and it quickly became apparent that he needed to tighten up his rules before someone got killed. Naismith commented on that first day of introduction to the new sport:

Quote:
“The boys began tackling, kicking and punching in the clinches. They ended up in a free-for-all in the middle of the gym floor. Before I could pull them apart, one boy was knocked out, several of them had black eyes and one had a dislocated shoulder.”


So Naismith came up with 13 rules to govern that game and one of them was that the players could not run with the ball as this was the source of the mayhem on the floor.

So yes indeed, the game was invented by a Canadian who was born and raised in Canada and received his BA at McGill. But he spent the rest of his life in the US eventually moving from Springfield College to the University of Kansas where he initiated the basketball programme and coached the first team.

This synopsis was taken from a much longer piece published in the Canadian Encyclopaedia.

[Read More]


The game sounds more interesting the way it was first played.

Cheers,

George

NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 2:36:56 PM
Insurrections against the duly elected Government are not tolerated.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 3:21:34 PM
Quote:



The game sounds more interesting the way it was first played.
Cheers,

George



Sounds like indoor rugby.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
11/6/2022 6:11:31 PM
"Basketball is ten grown people running around in their t-shirts and short, dribbling on the floor and fouling themselves."
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/7/2022 5:45:49 AM
On November 7, 1861, Union forces under Ulysses S. Grant overrun a Confederate camp at the Battle of Belmont, Missouri, but are forced to flee when additional Confederate troops arrive. Although Grant claimed victory, the Union gained no ground and left the Confederates in firm control of that section of the Mississippi River.


This engagement was part of Grant’s plan to capture the Confederate stronghold at Columbus, Kentucky, just across the river from Belmont, by first driving away the Confederate garrison at Belmont. General Leonidas Polk, Confederate commander at Columbus, had posted about 1,000 men around Belmont to protect both sides of the river. On the evening of November 6, Grant sailed 3,000 troops down the Mississippi River from Cairo, Illinois. They landed early on November 7, just three miles above Belmont, and proceeded to attack. Upon hearing noise from the battle, Polk sent another 2,500 troops across the river to provide relief for his beleaguered Rebels. The Yankees routed the arriving reinforcements and scattered them along the river. At that point, the Union troops began to celebrate their victory and loot the Confederate camp.

Grant had ordered a small Union force under General Charles Smith to advance from Paducah, Kentucky, which lay to the northeast, to provide a diversion and keep Polk from sending any more reinforcements to Belmont. Grant hoped that Polk would believe that Smith’s advance was the primary attack and that Belmont was the diversion. Polk did not buy it, and he dispatched additional reinforcements to Belmont. Five Confederate regiments arrived as Grant ordered his men to return to the boats. Grant himself narrowly escaped capture, but was able to get most of his force back on the river. The Yankees retreated to Cairo.

Grant lost 120 dead and 487 wounded or captured, while the Confederates lost 105 dead and 536 wounded or captured. Although he gained no ground, Grant demonstrated that, unlike many other Union generals, he was willing to mount a campaign using the resources at hand rather than calling for reinforcements. This trait served Grant well during the war, and it eventually carried him to the top of the Union army.​

OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/7/2022 7:06:22 AM
I'm going to get down there and see the site. (I'm in St. Louis.)
NYGiant
home  USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/7/2022 7:17:12 AM
The formerly fortified site on the Kentucky side has been designated as the Columbus-Belmont State Park, commemorating the military operations performed in the surrounding area.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/7/2022 5:25:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:



The game sounds more interesting the way it was first played.
Cheers,

George



Sounds like indoor rugby.

Trevor



Hi Trevor,

Also American Football is becoming more & more like Rugby, in recent seasons, the halfback gets the ball & is stood up , all the linemen get behind him & physically push him as far forward as they can against the defensive linemen! ? Similar to a scrum in Rugby!?

Also we are playing regular season games in the UK!?

Go figure!
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/7/2022 9:03:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:



The game sounds more interesting the way it was first played.
Cheers,

George



Sounds like indoor rugby.

Trevor



Hi Trevor,

Also American Football is becoming more & more like Rugby, in recent seasons, the halfback gets the ball & is stood up , all the linemen get behind him & physically push him as far forward as they can against the defensive linemen! ? Similar to a scrum in Rugby!?

Also we are playing regular season games in the UK!?

Go figure!
MD


North American football has a long way to go before it resembles rugby, I think. Too many pauses to reset and call plays. I read somewhere that in a 60 minute football game, there is only 11 minutes of actual action. When different sports are analyzed by kinesiologists, one factor that comes up is the exercise to pause ratio (EP). Sometimes the ratio is called work/rest.

One 2004 study in the US looked at the EP for a couple of NCAA division 1A teams and found:

-the average length of a football play is 5.23 +/- 1.7 seconds.. There is a small difference between run and pass plays.

-the average length of time between football plays was, 46.9 +/- 34 seconds, including extended rest periods such as time outs and injury attention.

There are stops in rugby. One example is when a scrum is awarded. It can take a minute to set it up. But for the most part the action is more continuous than in North American football. I cannot find any data to support what I am saying but a rugby match is played continuously with only a few stops for scrums and line-outs. The ball is put back into play as quickly as possible.


I recall a comment made by one of my exercise physiology profs. He said that you don't play football to get fit but you have to be extremely fit to play football.

Cheers,

George

Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
11/8/2022 12:49:15 AM
07 Nov 1917 - Capture of Gaza, Palestine by the Australian Mounted Division (soon after they would be ordered out of town so Lawrence and his Arabs could claim victory).

08 Nov 1917 - The battle of El Mughar, Palestine by the Australian Light Horse.

09 Nov 1914 - HMAS Sydney (1) destroys the German Cruiser Emden at the Coco's Islands. This will be the RAN's first ship to ship action at sea.

Regards.
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/8/2022 6:50:19 AM
On November 8, 1864, Northern voters overwhelmingly endorse the leadership and policies of President Abraham Lincoln when they elect him to a second term. With his re-election, any hope for a negotiated settlement with the Confederacy vanished.


In 1864, Lincoln faced many challenges to his presidency. The war was now in its fourth year, and many were questioning if the South could ever be fully conquered militarily. Union General Ulysses S. Grant mounted a massive campaign in the spring of that year to finally defeat the Confederate army of General Robert E. Lee, but after sustaining significant losses at the Wilderness, Spotsylvania, and Cold Harbor, the Yankees bogged down around Petersburg, Virginia.

As the fall approached, Grant seemed no closer to defeating Lee than his predecessors. Additionally, Union General William T. Sherman was planted outside of Atlanta, but he could not take that city. Some of the Radical Republicans were unhappy with Lincoln’s conciliatory plan for reconstruction of the South. And many Northerners had never been happy with Lincoln’s 1862 Emancipation Proclamation, which converted the war from one of reunion to a crusade to destroy slavery. Weariness with the war fueled calls for a compromise with the seceded states.

The Democrats nominated George B. McClellan, the former commander of the Union Army of the Potomac. McClellan was widely regarded as brilliant in organizing and training the army, but he had failed to defeat Confederate General Robert E. Lee in Virginia.McClellan and Lincoln quarreled constantly during his tenure as general in chief of the army, and Lincoln replaced him when McClellan failed to pursue Lee into Virginia after the Battle of Antietam in Maryland inSeptember 1862.

In the months leading up to the 1864 election, the military situation changed dramatically. While Grant remained stalled at Petersburg, Mobile Bay fell to the Federal navy in August, Sherman captured Atlanta in September, and General Philip Sheridan secured Virginia’s Shenandoah Valley in October. On election day, Lincoln carried all but three states (Kentucky, New Jersey, and Delaware), and won 55 percent of the vote. He won 212 electoral votes to McCellan’s 21. Most significantly, a majority of the Union troops voted for their commander in chief, including a large percentage of McClellan’s old command, the Army of the Potomac.

Perhaps most important was the fact that the election was held at all. Before this, no country had ever held elections during a military emergency. Lincoln himself said, “We can not have free government without elections; and if the rebellion could force us to forego, or postpone a national election, it might fairly claim to have already conquered and ruined us.” Five months after Lincoln’s re-election, the collapse of the Confederacy was complete.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/8/2022 7:41:55 AM
Liliefontein, Nov. 7, 1900. Boer War

At this stage of the war and with the defeat of the Boer forces at Paardeberg in February, the British were compelled to change tactics as the Boers were forced to fight more guerilla actions than set piece battles.

On Nov. 6, a British column departed from Belfast in the Transvaal. They were on the look-out for Boers. The British were no longer using the rail lines as the primary means of transport of troops but were trekking across the veldt in search of the enemy

The purpose of the trip was to find a Boer commando encamped near the Komati River. Part of the mix were the Canadian Mounted Rifles, the Royal Canadian dragoons and the Royal Canadian Field Artillery with their two, 12 pounder guns. This was Canada's first foreign war.

The British forced the Boers to retreat over the river. They encamped at the Liliefontein farm, but the British commander felt that the Boers had greater numbers of men than he had and so he ordered a withdrawal of British forces. The Boer commander had sent for reinforcements and was prepared to attack the British column. He had several hundred men with him.

The British commander ordered the Royal Canadian Dragoons plus "D" battery of the artillery to cover the withdrawal. The Dragoons were an experienced lot but undermanned with only about 100 horsemen available and they spread out across a wide line and place a Colt MG in the middle of the line. The Boers saw that the British were leaving and attacked. The Canadians put up a great fight and managed to kill both Boer commanders.

As they were slowly withdrawing themselves, it wouldn't be long before the Dragoons reached the rear of the British column. Now leaderless the Boers continued to attack but were no longer well co-ordinated and they caused no harm to the column.

But they did attack the Canadians with men on horseback, outnumbering the Canadians 2:1.

This was not a costly battle for the British and Canadians. Only 3 Dragoons were killed and 11 more wounded. But it is notable that during that stalwart defence, three Dragoons were awarded the Victoria Cross.



The situation was a desperate one. The bravery of the Dragoons and the artillery that nearly lost its guns is heralded in Canada but I doubt that it is well known outside of this country.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George



Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
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This day in World History! Continued
11/8/2022 9:05:40 AM
Excellent stuff, George, thanks !

Too often overlooked in the annals of the Boer War, four thousand Canadians served in that conflict alongside their British, Australian , New Zealand and South African counterparts. Indians participated too : IIRC, Gandi served as a stretcher bearer helping carry wounded British troops from the battlefield.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6508
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
11/8/2022 9:09:27 AM
dp
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
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