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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/21/2022 3:49:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
George,

As a “neutral” (I still remember the black day Sam Etcheverry and Hal Patterson were traded away…), I thought it was a pretty exciting game…especially the fourth quarter. Can’t remember the last time I saw a blocked field goal, let alone two, back to back-:)

Agree that there is a growing gap in the quality of the players in the two leagues….but the wide open CFL style is still lot of fun!

I read the Globe online every am. About six weeks ago, checked the sports section to see what the score of the previous night’s Argo game was. Couldn’t find anything…same for the next three regular season games. Not even a paragraph from the Globe (which is still a Toronto paper)!

So…no local support…and if course, many Torontonians think they are “above” the CFL-:).

Go to an Argo game in Toronto…and it is a bunch of old white guys. From Scarborough-:). And their wives have tattoos…. Go to a Raptor game, and despite the ridiculous ticket prices, those in attendance reflect the diversity of the city. And lots of young women wearing tight leather pants….

s.c.



When they introduced the Argo defence last night, all 12 were black players from the US and Canada. Still the crowd did not reflect the diversity of the city. Too bad. I used to have season's tickets way back when the Argos played at Exhibition stadium in the early 70's. Joe Theismann, Bill Symons, Jim Corrigal, Mike Eben, Granny Liggins. The kicker was Zenon Andrusyshyn. Those were great days in that crummy stadium with the wind blowing in off the lake. My butt froze to those aluminum bench seats. Loved every minute of it.

George



Hi George, & Steve,

I remember those good old days of the CFL, It's to bad the Argos are now an afterthought!? I'll have to.watch the game on tv when the Raptors play the Pistons in Toronto! Young women wearing tight leather pants you say? Lots of em??? I was actually in Canada when the Raptors won the NBA Championship, just north of the metro area, in Collingwood, Ontario!!

I'm ok with that!
Cheers,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/21/2022 4:02:21 PM
Quote:
1917 for the 1st time in warfare Tanks are used in the Battle of Cambria! Who & how were they developed? Were they very effective in WWI? Anyone, on Tanks, & the Battle of Cambria?? Tanks a lot!? ☺


I am reasonably certain that tanks were employed for the first time in 1916 at Courcelette (Flers-Courcelette). The British 4th Army and the French 6th were involved in this battle. 49 tanks were spread among the attacking divisions.



The Canadians were moved south to do their part in the Somme battles and they fought at Courcelette. This was also the first time that the Canadians had advanced behind a creeping barrage.

And they were supported by six of the tanks that were called "land cruisers". Only one of the tanks achieved its objective but the tanks did strike fear in the hearts of the German soldiers as they rolled easily over barbed wire and narrow trenches. But the tanks broke down or got stuck in a deep hole or were hit be artillery.

This is what the Canadians saw when they entered the village of Courcelette. The building was called the Red Chateau and it was used by the Germans and Canadians as a dressing station when either was in possession of it. source: Canadian Encyclopaedia.



The extent of the damage to civilian property in this war is astounding.

I recall reading that some commanders were concerned that the tanks would kill the initiative of the foot soldier who would grow more content to wait to see what the tank was going to do and would not press forward. As well, some soldiers said that the tanks were too slow and couldn't keep up with them. These were early days and the integration of tanks into the attack was in the developmental stages. Tactics and the integration of all arms would have to improve after the Somme.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/21/2022 5:10:18 PM
Quote:
Looking at 11-19 & 11-20 A few new topics not commented on yet, any new points?? Anyone?

1794 SC Justice John Jay, makes a peace treaty with the British! Was it a fair treaty or exploitive? Comments?

1863 Lincoln at Gettysburg, was John Wilkes Booth there as well?? Anyone?

2017 Fruitcake murder, Charles Satan Manson dies in prison! What say you about this nut??

& 11-20 in history, the following,

1815 the Quadruple Alliance is formed did it stop Napoleon?? How?

1820 the US whaling ship Essex, sinks?? So was Moby Dick, Melville's novel based on facts?? Anyone??

1925 Robert Kennedy was born sadly assassination cut what might have been a future President, short! Comments?

1992 huge fire in Windsor Castle destroys 115+ rooms! How did this happen? & How was it restored? Anyone with a good website on it??

1998 American Tobacco companies are to pay out over 200 billion dollars!? Was this just??

11-21 today's events,

1806 Napoleon tries to blockade Great Britain! The Continental System!? Say what?? How effective could this possibly be?? Anyone??

2002 NATO expands with 7 more x Soviet countries! Why didn't Ukraine join? Are they members now?? Will they survive Russian invasion? What say you??

Lots to discuss here! Please pitch in!!!!

Seize the day!
MD


BTW thanks George, for the pics, & post on WWI Tanks! They sure were weird cumbersome huge vehicles!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/21/2022 8:52:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
1975 Spain's leader Francisco Franco dies, from a heart attack! Was he a good or evil leader? What was up with the pre WWII civil war in Spain? Why did other European leaders get involved? even Hitler? … Anyone?

Three questions:
1. What happened in Spain between the wars?
2. Was he a good leader?
3. Why did other European nations get involved?

Spain was, IIUC, a rigidly classed, stongly religious society from the time of Napoleon’s collapse. During the 19th century it relied heavily on its empire to function; with the decline/collapse of the Empire, it became a poor nation as well. An hereditary royalty, a pervasive Catholic structure and a wealthy nobility were supported by a loyalist army. Socialism and bolshevism were introduced as the poor gained elementary education skills, and a strong socialist party challenged the loyalist status quo, eventually gaining power in 1931.

From that time on, power would swing between Republicans and Monarchists/loyalists. There were, IIUC, no “nice” folks. Socialists (the force behind Spanish Republicanism) were intent on destroying traditional values; loyalists (supporting both Church and Monarchy status quo ante) were intent on fighting to maintain traditional ways. By 1936, a civil war broke out. At the time, Franco was commander of Spain’s African Colonial Army. His decision to support loyalist factions was perhaps moot to the cause, until first Mussolini and then Hitler offered both transportation and later military support. Soviet Russia was already providing arms and personnel to the Republicans.

In all cases, IIUC, there were some pressures on Spain to pay for assistance; I seem to remember this is why Franco’s African army was airlifted by German rather than Italian aircraft. It is also noteworthy that no western democracy offered official support to the Republicans, though certain nationals formed “brigades” offering Republican support.Whether they fought for socialism or against growing fascist values (Italian fascism, German nazism, Spanish falangism remains a subject of debate.

Generalissimo Francisco Franco, who would become the “leader for life” of the Falangist party/movement in Spain in the latter stages of the civil war, would become dictator of Spain from the end of the civil war in April 1939. During WW2, he repaid support he had received from Hitler and Mussolini by maintaining an axis-leaning neutrality but rejecting pressures to engage on behalf of the Axis. He would not commit troops to the conquest of Gibraltar, though Hitler requested it, but the so-called Blue Division of the Spanish Army served on the Eastern Front in the German assault on Russia.

I don’t know that there is anything good to say about Franco, at least as Caudillo of Spain. From 1939 to the time of his death, he ruled Spain widely and harshly. I spent some weeks in Spain in early 1960.The Spanish were a wonderful people who lived life to the fullest possible to them. But at any given moment – while sampling sherry in Jerez, or touring underground corridors in Cadiz, buying tickets to view flamenco – you were aware of the threats behind the rich culture. I remember sleeping with my car just outside Algeciras, and being awakened by a sub-machine gun in the ribs. The Guardia Civil wanted to check my papers, because I was too close to Gibraltar for their liking. For me, Franco’s Spain was a vast expansion of cultural awareness controlled by the distinctive Guardia Civil hat and the fire power represented by those sub-machine guns.

Cheers
Brian G



Hi Brian,

I never fully understood the Spanish Civil War, thanks for filling in the blanks! Everything you mentioned, makes sense! The last part involving the Guardia Civil acosting you had to be scary!? You ever think about writing a book on your life?? If Hemingway had heard your story, he would have wrote you into For whom the bell tolls!?

Thanks,& cheers!
MD

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 6:31:02 AM
On November 22, 1942, a Soviet counteroffensive against the German armies pays off as the Red Army traps about a quarter-million German soldiers south of Kalach, on the Don River, within Stalingrad. As the Soviets’ circle tightened, German General Friedrich Paulus requested permission from Berlin to withdraw.

The Battle of Stalingrad began in the summer of 1942, as German forces assaulted the city, a major industrial center and a prize strategic coup, if it could be occupied. But despite repeated attempts, the German 6th Army, under Paulus, and part of the 4th Panzer Army, under Ewald von Kleist, could not break past the adamantine defense by the Soviet 62nd Army, commanded by Gen. Vasily I. Chuikov, despite having pushed the Soviets almost to the Volga River in mid-October and encircling Stalingrad.

​Diminishing resources, partisan guerilla attacks, and the cruelty of the Russian winter began to take their toll on the Germans. On November 19, the Soviets made their move, launching a counteroffensive that began with a massive artillery bombardment of the German position. The Soviets then assaulted the weakest link in the German force-inexperienced Romanian troops; 65,000 were ultimately taken prisoner by the Soviets.

The Soviets then made a bold strategic move, encircling the enemy, launching pincer movements from north and south simultaneously, even as the Germans encircled Stalingrad. The Germans should have withdrawn, but Hitler wouldn’t allow it. He wanted his armies to hold out until they could be reinforced. By the time those fresh troops arrived in December, it was too late. The Soviet position was too strong, and the Germans were exhausted. It was then only a matter of time before the Germans would be forced to surrender.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 9:42:13 AM
11-20 in history, the following,

1815 the Quadruple Alliance is formed did it stop Napoleon?? How?

1820 the US whaling ship Essex, sinks?? So was Moby Dick, Melville's novel based on facts?? Anyone??

1925 Robert Kennedy was born sadly assassination cut what might have been a future President, short! Comments?

1992 huge fire in Windsor Castle destroys 115+ rooms! How did this happen? & How was it restored? Anyone with a good website on it??

1998 American Tobacco companies are to pay out over 200 billion dollars!? Was this just??

11-21, events,

1806 Napoleon tries to blockade Great Britain! The Continental System!? Say what?? How effective could this possibly be?? Anyone??

2002 NATO expands with 7 more x Soviet countries! Why didn't Ukraine join? Are they members now?? Will they survive Russian invasion? What say you??

11-22's happenings! Old & New, comments & posts welcome!

1718, the pirate Black Beard was killed off the Coast of North Carolina! Anyone have the story??

1963 sadly in Dallas, Tx. President John F Kennedy is killed! was his security lacking? What say you?? Also it seems people remember where they were & it's effects on those around them? I was in Elementary school, & A lot of kids were crying! Anyone else wish to share??

1990 Margaret Thatcher resigns after her popularity diminished! She was the leader during the victorious Falklands War, so how did this happen? Anyone??

2005 Angela Merkel becomes Germany's 1st women Chancellor! How did she do? was she a good leader? Comments?

Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 11:40:27 AM
Quote:
11-20 in history, the following,


1925 Robert Kennedy was born sadly assassination cut what might have been a future President, short! Comments?




1963 sadly in Dallas, Tx. President John F Kennedy is killed! was his security lacking? What say you?? Also it seems people remember where they were & it's effects on those around them? I was in Elementary school, & A lot of kids were crying! Anyone else wish to share??

1

Regards,
MD

To us Baby Boomers, these assassinations marked a significant event in our lives, so much so that we remember where we were and when we heard the news of these tragic events.

To speculate would be to confront the US involvement in Viet Nam, and to confront how this involvement ripped apart our American society. JFK was sure to win re-election in 1964. I don't know if he would have removed US soldiers from Viet Nam. But I am convinced that he would never have escalated the war after the imaginary Gulf of Tonkin incident. He had shown he had the ability to stand up to the US Military when confronted with Russian missiles in Cuba.

RFK would have ended the illegal war.

As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 12:20:18 PM
Quote:
As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.


And so you have appropriated a term reserved for the generation of people that survived a depression and fought a great war, perhaps the last necessary war. Dare I ask your rationale?
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 1:17:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.


And so you have appropriated a term reserved for the generation of people that survived a depression and fought a great war, perhaps the last necessary war. Dare I ask your rationale?


Sure!

The Baby Boomers earned the designation Greatest Generation, because we stopped the Viet Nam war, and we stopped the further killing of Americans in an illegal war.

The term "the Greatest Generation" is thought to have been coined by former NBC Nightly News anchor and author Tom Brokaw in his book by the same name.

The "G.I. Generation" or the "WWII Generation" is a more appropriate name.

And IIRC, a lawyer who proscecuted German War criminals also called us Baby Boomers "the Greatest Generation."

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 1:52:24 PM
Quote:


As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.

NY Giant


NYG,

I am 100% sure that Tom Brokaw, in his book, & everyone else for that matter refer to the Greatest Generation as the WWIi generation because they defeated the terrible Axis Powers, & made the world safe for freedom loving peoples everywhere, & democracy! Not Vietnam, not Baby Boomers!!!!! The greatest generation was the WWII generation! Hands down!!!!

BTW I have Brokaw's book, & have read it!
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 2:06:26 PM
Yes, the Baby Boomers campaigned to stop the Vietnam war....and it was also Baby Boomers who spit on US soldiers when they came home, cussed them out....it was Baby Boomers who rebelled against their parents ( actual members of The Greatest Generation) and called them sell-outs, and greedy, and then proceeded in the next three decades to become the most self-centered, spoiled rotten crop of sell-outs. Baby Boomers were the most pampered, spoiled and ungrateful generation of American until that point. I was at the end of that Baby Boom generation so I know a bit about it. And I also know that my parents grew up in severe poverty during the Great Depression, the only cloths they wore growing up were darned hand-me downs. A pair of new shoes was a treat. And just as they grew up to young adulthood, and started to make their own way in the world....they had to go fight yet another fricken European War. Those that could finally afford a pair of shoes...had to deal with rationing of everything.

They planted and grew their own vegetables in "victory gardens" and women like my mom worked in Bell Bomber Plant in Marietta, turning out thousands of planes to send to men like my father who was in the fighting, not for a 6 month tour, but foe the duration.

To call the spoiled brats of the Baby Boomers "The Greatest Generation" is an insult, and renders the term meaningless.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 2:11:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:


As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.

NY Giant


NYG,

I am 100% sure that Tom Brokaw, in his book, & everyone else for that matter refer to the Greatest Generation as the WWIi generation because they defeated the terrible Axis Powers, & made the world safe for freedom loving peoples everywhere, & democracy! Not Vietnam, not Baby Boomers!!!!! The greatest generation was the WWII generation! Hands down!!!!

BTW I have Brokaw's book, & have read it!
MD[/quote

We baby Boomers are the Greatest Generation, because we stopped an illegal war.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 2:22:12 PM
Not only did we Baby Boomers campaign to end an illegal war, we stopped the carnage and the killing of American soldiers. We made the United States live up to the provisions of The Atlantic Charter.

I will admit that the Baby Boomers were the 1st to take advantage the changes that those who served in WW II were given....we benefitted from the greatest piece of social legislation in the world, the GI Bill. We saw the advantages of a college education and took advantage of the opportunities that that education gave us.As best we could, we stood up to the military-industrial complex.

My Dad lived in a hotel room with his Dad, during the Great Depression. My Dad was the only means of support for his Dad. But when my Dad was called up to serve in the military, he took his place and defended our nation. And that grateful Nation gave my Mom a stipend when she grew older.

One should hold the Baby Boomers in high esteem, for it was an ILLEGAL war that we stopped. And by ending that war, we saved American soldiers lives.

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 2:53:07 PM
Quote:
Not only did we Baby Boomers campaign to end an illegal war, we stopped the carnage and the killing of American soldiers. We made the United States live up to the provisions of The Atlantic Charter.

I will admit that the Baby Boomers were the 1st to take advantage the changes that those who served in WW II were given....we benefitted from the greatest piece of social legislation in the world, the GI Bill. We saw the advantages of a college education and took advantage of the opportunities that that education gave us.As best we could, we stood up to the military-industrial complex.

My Dad lived in a hotel room with his Dad, during the Great Depression. My Dad was the only means of support for his Dad. But when my Dad was called up to serve in the military, he took his place and defended our nation. And that grateful Nation gave my Mom a stipend when she grew older.

One should hold the Baby Boomers in high esteem, for it was an ILLEGAL war that we stopped. And by ending that war, we saved American soldiers lives.




If true you are suggesting that baby boomers of the US stopped a war involving mostly Americans in Vietnam. How does that compare to the overwhelming response of the depression/WW2 generation to a critical situation with world wide implications in WW2?

Quote:
we benefitted from the greatest piece of social legislation in the world, the GI Bill


You certainly love to qualify anything with which the US is associated with that phrase, "in the world". I presume then that you can tell us of the features of the social programmes offered to veterans in other countries after the war.

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 3:22:02 PM
I am saying that the Baby Boomers stopped an ILLEGAL war, the Viet Nam war. There was noting illegal about our involvement in WW 2. Only Congress can declare war and they did. Congress never declared war against Viet Nam.

Why don't you name a country with such transforming social legislation for the returning soldiers after WW II. IIRC, most countries had enough problems just living.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 5:09:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:


As it was, it was us, the Baby Boomers, what I refer to as the Greatest Generation, which ended the Viet Nam War.

NY Giant


NYG,

I'm going to quote what my mother told me when I was really really totally wrong! In this instance it refers to your contention above! "Have you lost your mind!?"

I bet you can't get even one person on this forum to agree with you!??

Go ahead Google the term or Google Tom Brokaw's book, the Greatest Genration!

NYG your just plain wrong!!!

Regards,
MD

BTW I have been wrong a lot on this forum, I just admit it & move on!!!!!
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 6:01:28 PM
So tell me...what other Generation stopped an ILLEGAL war? And saved the lives of Americans?

vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 6:18:48 PM
Quote:
Yes, the Baby Boomers campaigned to stop the Vietnam war....and it was also Baby Boomers who spit on US soldiers when they came home, cussed them out....it was Baby Boomers who rebelled against their parents ( actual members of The Greatest Generation) and called them sell-outs, and greedy, and then proceeded in the next three decades to become the most self-centered, spoiled rotten crop of sell-outs. Baby Boomers were the most pampered, spoiled and ungrateful generation of American until that point. I was at the end of that Baby Boom generation so I know a bit about it. And I also know that my parents grew up in severe poverty during the Great Depression, the only cloths they wore growing up were darned hand-me downs. A pair of new shoes was a treat. And just as they grew up to young adulthood, and started to make their own way in the world....they had to go fight yet another fricken European War. Those that could finally afford a pair of shoes...had to deal with rationing of everything.

They planted and grew their own vegetables in "victory gardens" and women like my mom worked in Bell Bomber Plant in Marietta, turning out thousands of planes to send to men like my father who was in the fighting, not for a 6 month tour, but foe the duration.

To call the spoiled brats of the Baby Boomers "The Greatest Generation" is an insult, and renders the term meaningless.


I have to agree Morris if you want to hang your hat on stopping the Vietnam War as your generations greatest achievement then good luck. The war went on for 10 years!! and I doubt it would have gotten much attention if there was not a draft. Like the last war in Afghanistan that lasted 20 years without a draft and got little protest. I think Vietnam was a travesty as was the last few wars the US fought but I think the Boomers were one of the wealthiest generations but the greatest? Every generation after has had it harder and harder, To go to college, to buy a house, to start a family. I think NY thinks its the greatest because he was in it, just as he thinks the US is the center of the universe because he is in it. I dont blame an entire generation or cast them all in the same light my parents were baby boomers and are good folks but I would think the folks that fought WW2 and the Union side in the Civil War to be the of greatest generations. The Civil war was one of the few wars fought in History I can think that was fought over changing the human condition and not just taking someone's land and resources but abolishing slavery, men with farms left their families to fight for a just cause risking everything. The Baby Boomers fought against Vietnam because it was unjust and they did not want to leave their dorm rooms. So Kudos Boomers but your not the greatest generation.

vpatrick
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nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 6:27:52 PM
Actually, seeking Peace is a pretty good thing, and stopping an illegal war is a great achievement , don't you think? Even the Bible says “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God”

Actually, the Civil War was not initially started to end slavery. The Civil War started to preserve the Union when the Southern States left the Union.

We Baby Boomers were against the Viet Nam war because it was unjust, it was illegal, and because the US denied the provisions of The Atlantic Charter. Just stopping the illegal war makes us the Greatest Generation. Our actions saved the lives of countless American servicemen. The Vietnamese never once threatened our way of life.

Please name for me another Generation that stopped cold an illegal war.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 7:47:24 PM
You did not stop the Vietnam War. You lost it.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 7:48:33 PM
Quote:
I am saying that the Baby Boomers stopped an ILLEGAL war, the Viet Nam war. There was noting illegal about our involvement in WW 2. Only Congress can declare war and they did. Congress never declared war against Viet Nam.

Why don't you name a country with such transforming social legislation for the returning soldiers after WW II. IIRC, most countries had enough problems just living.




ver declared war against Viet Nam.

Why don't you name a country with such transforming social legislation for the returning soldiers after WW II. IIRC, most countries had enough problems just living.



Ah, so you didn't bother to check to see whether other allied nations established veterans social programmes. I asked you whether you had bothered to check the benefits programmes for WW2 veterans in other countries. But that appears to be too much work for you so you asked me to do the leg work. You see when you make statements that something like the GI Bill is the greatest piece of social legislation in the world, my antennae are raised. How does NYG know that or is he just blowing smoke again while he flag waves.

Maybe the US resettlement programmes were the best but you haven't done any investigation of the programmes in other allied countries, have you?

You are probably correct that other countries had a long road ahead to rebuild infrastructure after the war. The US did not.

But neither did Canada. The social safety net that we enjoy in this country may be traced back to the Veteran's Charter that came out of WWII. Even before the war ended, soldiers on leave could sign up for one week summer courses that pointed them in the direction of employment.

These programmes were part of the charter:

Low cost life insurance
Government sponsored vocational training included grants in aid, training classes and apprenticeships
Full grants in aid for university education plus allowances for a wife and each child while the veteran studied.
Financial assistance for those who want to farm. This includes land and equipment purchases.
Financial assistance for those who wished to fish.
Grants for people who want to build a house on crown land
Veterans Land Act offered subsidized mortgages to people who wished to build a house just outside of a city or town. Called a re-establishment credit.

Booklet for vets titled, "The Common Sense of Re-Establishment". It describes the programmes available to vets.

[Read More]


Britain's society was altered by the war as well. And many social programmes including National Health may be traced to the end of WWII. They had a special settlement programme for Polish veterans who were given the option to stay in Britain rather than go home. But other than a "demob" suit of clothes, I don't know what other programmes were set up in Britain. I would be curious to know as Britain finished the war in great debt and I think that that was a sad way to treat an ally that had sacrificed so much.

Australia provided generous benefits to veterans, including for education, housing and employment protection, as well as disability compensation. I don't have the details.

Quote:
In New Zealand, theRehabilitation Act was passed in 1941 to improve and coordinate the reintegration of Second World War veterans into New Zealand’s post-war society. Many thousands of veterans received low-interest business, housing and furniture loans, and preferential allocation of state houses. Trade training was provided, especially in the building industry. Those choosing to study at secondary school or university could qualify for fee and book allowances, although only for career training and not for purely ‘cultural study’.

A new Land Settlement Board aimed to build on the lessons of the earlier farm settlement scheme by settling only men with farming experience, and on economically viable properties. Almost 14,000 Second World War ex-servicemen were assisted to acquire farms by 1964, and buoyant export prices ensured that most were able to successfully develop these properties.
. source: Encyclopaedia of New Zealand





NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 7:50:59 PM
Yes, we lost, but it was us Baby Boomers who stopped the war and saved the lives of American servicemen
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:05:54 PM
A couple of things...

the GI Bill has helped qualifying Veterans and their family members get money to cover all or some of the costs for school or training.

Not many countries offered that...the offer to cover all costs for college.

vpatrick
MA MA USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:14:57 PM
Quote:
Actually, seeking Peace is a pretty good thing, and stopping an illegal war is a great achievement , don't you think? Even the Bible says “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God”

Actually, the Civil War was not initially started to end slavery. The Civil War started to preserve the Union when the Southern States left the Union.

We Baby Boomers were against the Viet Nam war because it was unjust, it was illegal, and because the US denied the provisions of The Atlantic Charter. Just stopping the illegal war makes us the Greatest Generation. Our actions saved the lives of countless American servicemen. The Vietnamese never once threatened our way of life.

Please name for me another Generation that stopped cold an illegal war.


Stopped Cold? the war lasted 10 years and I think the Vietnamese had something to say about stopping the war as well. Baby boomers are not just US Americans all allied soldiers reproduced after the war. On this site we have Canadians, British folks, Irish, Australians, Norwegians, for you to say the main reason that your generation was the best was because they stopped the Vietnam war is shortsighted to say the least, can you imagine what another person from another country thinks of your theory? Give me another example as to why you think your generation is the "Greatest" and I may entertain it. I for one have always felt it was the worst and most selfish and did not care or think about future generations as a whole. Your generation defiantly produced the best Rock and Roll which can include all countries, Rolling Stones, the Beatles, etc. Again Kudos on stopping the 10 year old Vietnam war and then all of you went into politics and business saw some of the most atrocious business collapses since the depression out of greed, destroyed the US manufacturing sector again started wars like Iraq, Afghanistan and shit piles like Benghazi and produced some of the worst leaders the US has ever seen of all political stripes. And started the US down the road of moral depravity that other generations ran with as your ilk infected the US University system with communism and socialistic nonsense that has produced ideological maniacs both right and left that has everyone on their toes not to say the wrong thing or there might be a knock on the door and a canceled sign on your front lawn. Congrats

vpatrick
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nuts
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:32:01 PM
A few things,

1. I am still waiting for anyone to name another Generation that stopped an illegal war, cold. Anyone?

2. The rise of the womens movement and feminism is one of the contributions of the Baby Boomer Generation.

3. boomers still contribute to economy

4. We became the care-takers for our Moms and Dads to the best of our ability.

5. boomers became activists for Civil Rights for all Americans.

6. Boomers replaced their predecessors’ “my way or the highway” style management with a more democratic consensus of leadership and teamwork.

7. Last I checked, the US was brutally attacked on 9-11. We went to war to protect our way of life. And we succeeded.

8. US universities are some of the best in the world. Why do so many foreigners come to the US to study??

9. If you pay into Social Security, and Medicare, you believe in socialism.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:32:54 PM
Quote:
A couple of things...

the GI Bill has helped qualifying Veterans and their family members get money to cover all or some of the costs for school or training.

Not many countries offered that...the offer to cover all costs for college.




Ah, so now it's, "not many countries" that offered full coverage for a university education. Which ones then, NYG?

Canada did offer free university as well and added financial support if the vet was married and had children. Perhaps the other countries did as well.

The countries that fought for four plus years in WW1 were sensitive to the criticism that they received when the vets came home. There were resettlement plans but they were incomplete in 1918.

In my country our WWII PM William Lyon Mackenzie King, not the most dynamic and forceful politician that I can think of, had the foresight to establish committees to create the resettlement plans for veterans. And he did this within three months of the onset of war in 1939.

Other countries have their own stories to tell of their resettlement plans. Without knowing them you simply cannot claim that the GI Bill was the greatest piece of social legislation that the world had ever seen. It is wonderful that the US politicians and people were willing to support their veterans with a good programme of resettlement.

NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:36:33 PM
Not all veterans were treated fairly. The 4,300 First Nations Canadians who served during the war had been seen as equals by their comrades-in-arms overseas. But when these veterans came back to the nation they had defended with their lives, they returned to being wards of the state without even the right to vote.

Canada paid for 35000 to go to college.

The US paid for 2.2 million GIs to attend college.
vpatrick
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:43:11 PM
Quote:


7. Last I checked, the US was brutally attacked on 9-11. We went to war to protect our way of life. And we succeeded.



9. If you pay into Social Security, and Medicare, you believe in socialism.



7. You have to be kidding me what did we succeed in?


9. No choice we have to pay, Im not complaining but every country has socialistic aspects, its a fine line


You are either a sophisticated troll that gets energy off of raising someone's blood pressure or just well.

Happy Thanksgiving NY and your greatest generation

vpatrick


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nuts
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 8:52:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:


7. Last I checked, the US was brutally attacked on 9-11. We went to war to protect our way of life. And we succeeded.




9. If you pay into Social Security, and Medicare, you believe in socialism.



7. You have to be kidding me what did we succeed in?


We defeated Iran and we caught the terrorists who attacked the United States,


9. No choice we have to pay, Im not complaining but every country has socialistic aspects, its a fine line

So you do believe in Socialism. Do you want a Free Library in your town?..Socialism. Do you want roads to drive on to be maintained?...Socialism .




You are either a sophisticated troll that gets energy off of raising someone's blood pressure or just well.

Relax. A good discussion of give and take helps us both out. The world would be a boring place if all believed the same thing.

A Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours v Patrick.

Happy Thanksgiving NY and your greatest generation

vpatrick



vpatrick
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 9:11:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:









7. You have to be kidding me what did we succeed in?


We defeated Iran and we caught the terrorists who attacked the United States,


9. No choice we have to pay, Im not complaining but every country has socialistic aspects, its a fine line

So you do believe in Socialism. Do you want a Free Library in your town?..Socialism. Do you want roads to drive on to be maintained?...Socialism .


Relax. A good discussion of give and take helps us both out. The world would be a boring place if all believed the same thing.

A Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours v Patrick.

Happy Thanksgiving NY and your greatest generation

vpatrick



Again Socialism is a fine line to much disaster to little no roads, Iran has not been defeated they are building Nuclear weapons. And the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you write here is, "The world would be a boring place if all believed the same thing.",

At that thanks and I am sincere about my wish for your Thanksgiving if you are actually a sincere person.

My generation is far from great we bore all these wankers running around getting offended for a living and posting it on social media because we were raised by coddling baby boomers.


vpatrick

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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 9:12:35 PM
Quote:









7. You have to be kidding me what did we succeed in?


We defeated Iran and we caught the terrorists who attacked the United States,


9. No choice we have to pay, Im not complaining but every country has socialistic aspects, its a fine line

So you do believe in Socialism. Do you want a Free Library in your town?..Socialism. Do you want roads to drive on to be maintained?...Socialism .


Relax. A good discussion of give and take helps us both out. The world would be a boring place if all believed the same thing.

A Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours v Patrick.

Happy Thanksgiving NY and your greatest generation




Again Socialism is a fine line to much, disaster, to little no roads, Iran has not been defeated they are building Nuclear weapons. And the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you write here is, "The world would be a boring place if all believed the same thing.",


My generation is far from great we bore all these wankers running around getting offended for a living and posting it on social media because we were raised by coddling baby boomers.


now let the folks post the day in history stuff and stop hijacking please, its not a good discussion your bananas


At that thanks and I am sincere about my wish for your Thanksgiving if you are actually a sincere person albeit bananas.



vpatrick

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nuts
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 9:31:52 PM
Gee, a whole new war experience! NYG, you write: Quote:
Actually, seeking Peace is a pretty good thing, and stopping an illegal war is a great achievement , don't you think? Even the Bible says “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God”

We Baby Boomers were against the Viet Nam war because it was unjust, it was illegal, and because the US denied the provisions of The Atlantic Charter. Just stopping the illegal war makes us the Greatest Generation. Our actions saved the lives of countless American servicemen. The Vietnamese never once threatened our way of life.

What a marvellous vision in hindsight. And what a wonderful set of re-writes of a decade of strife! If only all of it were true!

I lived through the Vietnam experience from the outside, in an environment which dealt with issues as they impacted my world. I was a supporter of those who disagreed with US war policy at the time. I was close to folks who walked away from US policy, but were being tracked by US feds in Canada. In effect, I agreed with those who felt the war illegal. And IMHO, they were always in the minority.

Nevertheless, I have trouble waving the flags you seem to want to wave for the “Boomer” generation. Not all boomers were anti-Vietnam; many fought proudly (though conscripted) because US policy demanded it of them. Not all members of the Boomers were part of the hippie, free-love, Aquarius generation. I assume, for instance, that the National Guard at Kent State were Boomers, but they murdered students objecting to military intrusion on campus.

Yes, the US walked away from the Vietnam quagmire. Mr Nixon tried to take credit for that, but other issues got more attention. IMHO, Mr Nixon sold his country’s honour for some linguistic turns of phrase. He was able to do so not because this was an illegal or unjustified was, but because he could narrow the argument to one which suddenly cast off South Vietnam – the regime for which the US committed support and troops – and pretended that a US agreement with the north was a just ending. Gee, they’ve tried it again in Iraq, and again in Afghanistan. And each time, their “allies” have been left hanging, and have been destroyed.

I don’t know if you want to get into the issues surrounding inequality of conscription which was rampant. That was certainly an issue with those who carried guilt for finding ways out of conscription. That’s a whole different side of the growing tensions between US military demands and (largely) student rejection of standard draft application.

I remember “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” That was a belief and idea held by many of the anti-war movers. They were also targets of US federal values. Think the 1968 Democratic Convention. Think of the Chicago trials, where capable young protesters found themselves on trial for the crime of disagreement!

The Boomer generation, in case you hadn’t noticed, have been largely a colossal failure, whether in the US or elsewhere. I could go on, because this “greatest generation” bullshit is detrimental nationalist bs.

Cheers
Brian G



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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
vpatrick
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 9:36:33 PM
Well said Brian, I wonder how many Canadians and their kin were actually US draft dodgers in the Vietnam war? To determine who was the greatest generation is insane venture since we only really are familiar with the ones we know. There have been thousands.


vpatrick
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nuts
NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 10:13:11 PM
Not enough is the minority not to influence opinion and bring an end to the War. And no one seems bothered by the pesky fact that the war against Viet Nam was never approved by Congress with a declaration of War. Hence, the war was illegal.

My experience with the draft was the I participated and stood my chance, like most Americans.

Nixon was a racist and used the race card to win 2 elections for President.

I ave no problem with those who left to go to Canada to avoid the draft, They did what they felt was right.

Th Boomer Generation , in addition to ending the illegal Viet Nam war, was the Generation that allowed women to be themselves and to be free! Not only did Feminism arise, but here in the US we went through a social revolution where women entered the professions in vast numbers, and became CEO's of companies. And the easy access to birth control liberated women , so as not ot always be dependent on a man.

To be dependent on a man.....makes me shiver.

NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 10:21:23 PM
My bad...should have been Iraq. But if Trump hadn't pulled out of the accords with Iran, they wouldn't be as close to a nuclear weapon.

If you look close enough, socialism is part of the American way of life. Besides road maintenance, and free libraries, we have the police , the fire department, we have an interstate road network, free schools, the mail we receive every day, Medicaid, even soda pop!! All forms of every day socialism!

nice discussion girls and guys!



vpatrick
MA MA USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 10:49:58 PM
Your bananas and a troll, I hope I never get as bored as you are

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nuts
vpatrick
MA MA USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 11:09:14 PM
Still no evidence that the boomer Generation was the best

Iran is a theocracy bent on killing Israel, Trump or not they would continue to make Nukes they are doing it right now.

Nixon was a racist so was LBJ

Nobody said it was a problem for US kids to run to Canada, I was just interested in numbers and maybe how much Canada was populated by draft dodgers? I may have joined them but i was born in 1971.

Yes the boomer generation did help women now nobody can define one thanks to weird colleges that tell us believe in science just not biology all started by boomer professors and the one upt thing that goes along with political correctness. All had the infancy with the boomers. Dependency on a man will always happen, who fixes your car? who shingles your roof?, who changes out your water heater? who puts in your new driveway in the hot sun? who mows your lawn? who fights are wars? who are the engineers? who drives all the trucks that deliver the food, women can do all those things but they dont on mass like men, we are still dependent on men. And women who won alot are now being called "birthing people" good luck

thank you to the men that dont get thanked and to all those sick of the bullshit

vpatrick

stop the nonsense stop baiting and please let this board continue NY
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nuts
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 11:44:09 PM
"....the war in Vietnam was never approved by Congress....hence the war was illegal.......Nixon was a racist and used the race card to win 2 elections."

Typical of your kind NY giant.....which party did the two presidents most responsible for sticking us into and then escalating that illegal war? Kennedy...and Johnson! What party controlled the Congress for the 20 plus years leading up to that, and which did nothing to stop our involvement? You know which party. But you then take a shot at Nixon( out of the blue ) as being a racist. You seem to have had no problem with the Democrat racist Lyndon Johnson....who actually got us beyond neck deep in that war anyway.

Oh..."if you pay into social security and medicare your believe in socialism."

What complete shit! It is compulsory. That means no choice. That means you ultimately pay it at the point of a government gun.



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vpatrick
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This day in World History! Continued
11/22/2022 11:57:09 PM
LBJ

[Read More]

[Read More]


thats when men knew when to retire


vpatrick
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NYGiant
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This day in World History! Continued
11/23/2022 6:11:03 AM
On November 23, 1940, Romania signs the Tripartite Pact, officially allying itself with Germany, Italy and Japan.

As early as 1937, Romania had come under control of a fascist government that bore great resemblance to that of Germany’s, including similar anti-Jewish laws. Romania’s king, Carol II, dissolved the government a year later because of a failing economy and installed Romania’s Orthodox Patriarch as prime minister. But the Patriarch’s death and peasant uprising provoked renewed agitation by the fascist Iron Guard paramilitary organization, which sought to impose order. In June 1940, the Soviet Union co-opted two Romanian provinces, and the king searched for an ally to help protect it and appease the far right within its own borders. So on July 5, 1940, Romania allied itself with Nazi Germany—only to be invaded by its “ally” as part of Hitler’s strategy to create one huge eastern front against the Soviet Union.

King Carol abdicated on September 6, 1940, leaving the country in the control of fascist Prime Minister Ion Antonescu and the Iron Guard. Signing the Tripartite Pact was now inevitable. Originally formulated in Berlin on September 27, the pact formally recognized an alliance between Germany, Italy, and Japan, termed the “Axis.” As more European nations became subject to fascist domination and invasion, they too were drawn into the pact, albeit as unequal partners (Hungary was made an Axis “power” on November 20). Now it was Romania’s turn.

While Romania would recapture the territory lost to the Soviet Union when the Germans invaded Russia, it would also have to endure the Germans’ pillaging its resources as part of the Nazi war effort. Besides taking control of Romania’s oil wells and installations, Hitler would help himself to Romania’s food crops, causing a food shortage for native Romanians.​
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