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morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 2:23:54 PM
It is not spin to say that Benedict Arnold was a traitor. It is a fact. He betrayed the cause he had fought for, and turned on his Commanding General, Washington. When one calls him a traitor...they do not say "he is only a traitor." That there is no complexity to the man or his condition, or that he is pure evil...and painting him as nothing more. But he was a traitor...among other things. It`s a fact.

Yes, all who win in war write much of the histories of the war. They can control much of the narrative. But again, in the final factual accounting.. he betrayed the cause...and was a traitor.

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 3:08:13 PM
Must have been a glitch, Morris. I just saw your last post. I don't know why that is suddenly possible. The post actually affirms what I have been trying to say and that is that so firmly is the created narrative surrounding people and events of the revolutionary war imbedded in the psyche of many Americans that it becomes impossible to engage in meaningful discussion. And so Benedict Arnold must be pure evil as you have said. And I say that he is a more complex being than that. There are reasons why he became disaffected with the rebellion. As the war progressed the new country was not evolving in the way that he thought that it would. And indeed, he needed money. To paint him as congenitally evil doesn't make sense to me.

I would also suggest that he, like every person that took up the rebel cause, betrayed the nation that had spent fortune and blood to establish and then maintain and protect a quality of life complete with the rights of British subjects. Just a different way to look at things which of course will be rejected without discussion or reason. It does not comport with the accepted and acceptable narrative.

Cheers,

George

morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 3:46:34 PM
George, you misconstrued my post. I did not say "Benedict Arnold must be pure evil as you have said." Read my post again. I said that those who call him a traitor are not saying that he is only that...or that he is pure evil. They are simply stating a fact. I have been taught from the earliest that General Arnold was perhaps our best field leader. That he was badly wounded in the leg by a ball, a somewhat crippling injury that he would struggle with for the rest of his life, and that he felt passed-over for the type of position he was due. All part of the complex reasons for his alienation from the cause of the revolution.

But calling him a traitor is a statement of fact.

Discussion is also fine...as to why he is more than that.

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 7:18:17 PM
Morris, I agree that George probably misread your post. The operative sentences are: “When one calls him a traitor...they do not say "he is only a traitor." That there is no complexity to the man or his condition, or that he is pure evil...and painting him as nothing more.” I will admit I had to read the sentences twice before I got your meaning. I got confused by the strong opening to the second sentence: “That there is no complexity to the man …”, I think, and lost my focus.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 7:32:41 PM
"Evil" was brought in by NYG´s Shakespeare´s quote.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 7:32:46 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey guys,

Checking the dates from the start of the New Years, 1-1 to 1-3, A few events, comments!??

1-1,

1735 Paul Revere, of the British are coming, fame was born!? Comments on this Patriot? Anyone??

1804 after a bloody rebellion, Haiti declares independence from France! How did this cause concern in the Antebellum South!? Anyone??

1808, the US outlaws slavery, however, this does not stop the practice from growing domestically!? With many of the Slaves worth over $1,000 it easy to see how wealthy a Plantation owner with @ 100 slaves would be, plus the free labor!? Sad!?

1863 the Emancipation Proclamation is issued, freeing slaves in the South! How did this effect the Civil War?? What say you?

2002 Euros are introduced as Europes currency! How is that working out?? Anyone?

1-2,

1492 the Spanish regain Grenada from the Moors! Who is El Cid? Comments??

1863 the Union wins the battle of Stones River! Any details??

1905 the Russians surrender Port Arthur to the Japanese! How did the IJN win? Anyone??

1-3

1521 Martin Luther excommunicated by the Pope! Why??

1777 Washington wins the Battle of Trenton!? First American win, how important was it??

1959 Alaska becomes our 49th state!? Politics, or force?? How did this occur? What say you??

1962 even the Pope is against Castro in Cuba, he excommunicated him for being a Communist!? Why??

Any new topics??
Regards,
MD


& today 1-4 in history,

1643 Sir Isaac Newton was born! The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree!? Comments on his accomplishments!?

1809 Louis Braille was born, he developed a method for the blind to read! What a noble accomplishment! What say you??

1948 Burma granted independence! Was it also from the British? What's the story? Anyone??

Also thanks Phil, I see your point on the Peculiar Institution of Slavery in the Southern US, it is a different unique situation! Certainly very racially based in nature!

A fair amount of topics to discuss here!? Any ones we missed??



Again, moving our last topics on "this day in world history," to the new page for easy viewing, & discussion!!? Most topics not discussed yet!? New posts, anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 8:12:05 PM
IMHO, it is worth noting that “Waiting for Godot” was first produced in France on this day in 1953.

I’ve become a theoretical theatre-goer, missing more performances than I should considering the numerous (good) largely amateur companies in my home town. But if I hear of a performance of “Waiting for Godot”, I won’t miss it. Even school productions offer insights into how the guts of Beckett’s visions must be played out.

“Godot” has been called minimalist, absurdist, and a few other terms … including “stupid”. What it is, however, is simply the most approachable of Samuel Beckett’s works. it’s worth a view, even if that means finding one of the early movies (circa. 1960), a bowl of popcorn, and a sense of adventure.

Cheers
Brian G

----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 8:39:21 PM
On this date in 1919, Anton Drexler founded the German Workers’ Party, the forerunner to the Nazi party. Drexler would play a part in turning Adolph Hitler, a disillusioned patriot, from a follower to a leader. His Völkisch values, with their attendant anti-semitism, became bedrocks of Nazi ideology.

Note that within 4 years, the DAP had become the NSDAP, with Drexler replaced by Hitler. Note too that Drexler didn’t die until Feb 24, 1942. What did he do right?

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/5/2023 9:13:13 PM
Quote:
Morris, I agree that George probably misread your post. The operative sentences are: “When one calls him a traitor...they do not say "he is only a traitor." That there is no complexity to the man or his condition, or that he is pure evil...and painting him as nothing more.” I will admit I had to read the sentences twice before I got your meaning. I got confused by the strong opening to the second sentence: “That there is no complexity to the man …”, I think, and lost my focus.

Cheers
Brian G


And Morris' post disappeared very quickly from my feed and so once again, I am in the dark.

George
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 5:53:55 AM
On this day in US History,...

On the afternoon of January 6, 2021, a mob of President Donald Trump’s supporters descend on the U.S. Capitol, attempting to interfere with the certification of electoral votes from the 2020 presidential election.

The rioters assaulted the Capitol police force and ransacked the complex, destroying property and sending members of Congress and their staff into hiding in offices and bunkers. A protester who was shot by police died in the chaos and more than 100 members of law enforcement were injured.

At noon on January 6, at a rally on the Ellipse one mile from the Capitol in Washington, D.C., Trump claimed election fraud and called on Vice President Pence to overturn the 2020 election results by refusing to certify certain electoral votes. Trump told his assembled supporters, "We’re going to walk down to the Capitol" and “if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.”



Near the conclusion of his speech, several thousand attendees began marching towards the U.S. Capitol, where a crowd had assembled and was clashing with police. By 2 p.m., the rioters broke through the police barricades. The mob then entered the Capitol building, with some rioters smashing through windows and doors. Soon after, both the Senate and House of Representatives—which were in the middle of debating a Republican objection to Arizona’s electoral votes—adjourned. Vice President Pence and his family were immediately evacuated from the Senate chambers. Some members of Congress were escorted to an underground bunker while others barricaded themselves in offices or sheltered in place in the House chamber.

For several hours, rioters looted and ransacked congressional offices, including the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi; invaded the Senate chamber; and posed for pictures.

At around 2 p.m., Acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller called up 1,100 members of the D.C. National Guard, according to a statement from the National Guard. Guard members eventually secured the perimeter, allowing law enforcement and FBI to clear the chambers and offices of the U.S. Capitol. Around 4 p.m., President Trump, who was in the White House, posted a video message on social media in which he repeated his false claims of election fraud, but told his supporters to "go home in peace."

By 8 p.m., the Capitol complex was declared free of rioters, and Vice President Pence called the Senate back into session. At 9 p.m., Speaker Pelosi did the same in the House. Congress voted to confirm Joe Biden's electoral college win at 3:24 a.m. the following morning.

One week later, on January 13, President Trump was impeached for incitement of insurrection. Unlike his first impeachment, 10 House Republicans joined Democrats in voting in favor of impeachment. Trump was found not guilty in the Senate trial, though seven Republican senators joined Democrats in voting to convict.

In July of 2021, Speaker Pelosi formed a bipartisan House select committee, modeled after the commission formed in the wake of the September 11 attacks, to investigate the January 6 riot. On December 19, 2022, the committee investigating the attack voted to refer former President Trump and others to the Justice Department for potential criminal charges, including inciting or aiding an insurrection.

By December 2022, at least 964 people had been arrested and charged with crimes, making it the U.S. Justice Department's largest criminal investigationin history.​
​=====================================================================================================================================================

And we are still dealing with he after-effects.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 7:03:41 AM
Quote:
On this day in US History,...

On the afternoon of January 6, 2021, a mob of President Donald Trump’s supporters descend on the U.S. Capitol, attempting to interfere with the certification of electoral votes from the 2020 presidential election.

The rioters assaulted the Capitol police force and ransacked the complex, destroying property and sending members of Congress and their staff into hiding in offices and bunkers. A protester who was shot by police died in the chaos and more than 100 members of law enforcement were injured.

At noon on January 6, at a rally on the Ellipse one mile from the Capitol in Washington, D.C., Trump claimed election fraud and called on Vice President Pence to overturn the 2020 election results by refusing to certify certain electoral votes. Trump told his assembled supporters, "We’re going to walk down to the Capitol" and “if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.”



Near the conclusion of his speech, several thousand attendees began marching towards the U.S. Capitol, where a crowd had assembled and was clashing with police. By 2 p.m., the rioters broke through the police barricades. The mob then entered the Capitol building, with some rioters smashing through windows and doors. Soon after, both the Senate and House of Representatives—which were in the middle of debating a Republican objection to Arizona’s electoral votes—adjourned. Vice President Pence and his family were immediately evacuated from the Senate chambers. Some members of Congress were escorted to an underground bunker while others barricaded themselves in offices or sheltered in place in the House chamber.

For several hours, rioters looted and ransacked congressional offices, including the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi; invaded the Senate chamber; and posed for pictures.

At around 2 p.m., Acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller called up 1,100 members of the D.C. National Guard, according to a statement from the National Guard. Guard members eventually secured the perimeter, allowing law enforcement and FBI to clear the chambers and offices of the U.S. Capitol. Around 4 p.m., President Trump, who was in the White House, posted a video message on social media in which he repeated his false claims of election fraud, but told his supporters to "go home in peace."

By 8 p.m., the Capitol complex was declared free of rioters, and Vice President Pence called the Senate back into session. At 9 p.m., Speaker Pelosi did the same in the House. Congress voted to confirm Joe Biden's electoral college win at 3:24 a.m. the following morning.

One week later, on January 13, President Trump was impeached for incitement of insurrection. Unlike his first impeachment, 10 House Republicans joined Democrats in voting in favor of impeachment. Trump was found not guilty in the Senate trial, though seven Republican senators joined Democrats in voting to convict.

In July of 2021, Speaker Pelosi formed a bipartisan House select committee, modeled after the commission formed in the wake of the September 11 attacks, to investigate the January 6 riot. On December 19, 2022, the committee investigating the attack voted to refer former President Trump and others to the Justice Department for potential criminal charges, including inciting or aiding an insurrection.

By December 2022, at least 964 people had been arrested and charged with crimes, making it the U.S. Justice Department's largest criminal investigationin history.​
​=====================================================================================================================================================

And we are still dealing with he after-effects.



Oh dear. This should be good. I wish that we could have a meaningful discussion about this event but I sense southbound traffic.

George
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 9:34:16 AM
Hi George

Its just another fishing expedition, bait was set on the hook and now the bobber is in the water, the fisherman is just waiting to see when that bobber drops. This fish is just going to keep on swimming I can see the grinning fisherman in his boat constantly admiring his own reflection in the water. The fisherman is not interested in a good back and forth contest in an effort to learn more about fishing, just a quick catch and release kinda guy, just happy enough to ruin a fishes day and then move on to another fishing hole to set another sloppy hook.

vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 9:42:41 AM
Quote:
Quote:
On this day in US History,...

On the afternoon of January 6, 2021, a mob of President Donald Trump’s supporters descend on the U.S. Capitol, attempting to interfere with the certification of electoral votes from the 2020 presidential election.

The rioters assaulted the Capitol police force and ransacked the complex, destroying property and sending members of Congress and their staff into hiding in offices and bunkers. A protester who was shot by police died in the chaos and more than 100 members of law enforcement were injured.

At noon on January 6, at a rally on the Ellipse one mile from the Capitol in Washington, D.C., Trump claimed election fraud and called on Vice President Pence to overturn the 2020 election results by refusing to certify certain electoral votes. Trump told his assembled supporters, "We’re going to walk down to the Capitol" and “if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.”



Near the conclusion of his speech, several thousand attendees began marching towards the U.S. Capitol, where a crowd had assembled and was clashing with police. By 2 p.m., the rioters broke through the police barricades. The mob then entered the Capitol building, with some rioters smashing through windows and doors. Soon after, both the Senate and House of Representatives—which were in the middle of debating a Republican objection to Arizona’s electoral votes—adjourned. Vice President Pence and his family were immediately evacuated from the Senate chambers. Some members of Congress were escorted to an underground bunker while others barricaded themselves in offices or sheltered in place in the House chamber.

For several hours, rioters looted and ransacked congressional offices, including the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi; invaded the Senate chamber; and posed for pictures.

At around 2 p.m., Acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller called up 1,100 members of the D.C. National Guard, according to a statement from the National Guard. Guard members eventually secured the perimeter, allowing law enforcement and FBI to clear the chambers and offices of the U.S. Capitol. Around 4 p.m., President Trump, who was in the White House, posted a video message on social media in which he repeated his false claims of election fraud, but told his supporters to "go home in peace."

By 8 p.m., the Capitol complex was declared free of rioters, and Vice President Pence called the Senate back into session. At 9 p.m., Speaker Pelosi did the same in the House. Congress voted to confirm Joe Biden's electoral college win at 3:24 a.m. the following morning.

One week later, on January 13, President Trump was impeached for incitement of insurrection. Unlike his first impeachment, 10 House Republicans joined Democrats in voting in favor of impeachment. Trump was found not guilty in the Senate trial, though seven Republican senators joined Democrats in voting to convict.

In July of 2021, Speaker Pelosi formed a bipartisan House select committee, modeled after the commission formed in the wake of the September 11 attacks, to investigate the January 6 riot. On December 19, 2022, the committee investigating the attack voted to refer former President Trump and others to the Justice Department for potential criminal charges, including inciting or aiding an insurrection.

By December 2022, at least 964 people had been arrested and charged with crimes, making it the U.S. Justice Department's largest criminal investigationin history.​
​=====================================================================================================================================================

And we are still dealing with he after-effects.



Oh dear. This should be good. I wish that we could have a meaningful discussion about this event but I sense southbound traffic.

George


Yeah, I don´t recall anything happening on the 6th. Let´s take the 5th instead.
Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 10:01:00 AM
If there is going to be a constant attempt to inflict Jan 6 crap on this site....at least get the facts straight.

Nancy Pelosi did not "form a bipartisan House select committee, modeled after the commission formed in the wake of the September 11 attacks..." that is leftist propaganda, a lie, a ruse to try and fool gullible people. All the members of the "select House committee" were selected, not by the two parties leadership....but by the Democrap head witch hunter herself. Those members chosen to sit by Kevin McCarthy were refused by Pelosi. As a result, the one-sided show-trial that resulted did not even investigate the incompetence of the Speaker and her office to secure the Capitol...the very reason she did the unprecedented deed of denying minority members, chosen by their leadership from sitting on the panel. It was farce.

If you are going to bring up Jan 6...then at least make an effort for an honest telling......or leave it be!
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 11:59:32 AM
Quote:
If there is going to be a constant attempt to inflict Jan 6 crap on this site....at least get the facts straight.


If you are going to bring up Jan 6...then at least make an effort for an honest telling......or leave it be!


Morris, we all know it´s a divisive troll and provocation.

Trevor

----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 12:34:52 PM
Quote:
If there is going to be a constant attempt to inflict Jan 6 crap on this site....at least get the facts straight.

Nancy Pelosi did not "form a bipartisan House select committee, modeled after the commission formed in the wake of the September 11 attacks..." that is leftist propaganda, a lie, a ruse to try and fool gullible people. All the members of the "select House committee" were selected, not by the two parties leadership....but by the Democrap head witch hunter herself. Those members chosen to sit by Kevin McCarthy were refused by Pelosi. As a result, the one-sided show-trial that resulted did not even investigate the incompetence of the Speaker and her office to secure the Capitol...the very reason she did the unprecedented deed of denying minority members, chosen by their leadership from sitting on the panel. It was farce.

If you are going to bring up Jan 6...then at least make an effort for an honest telling......or leave it be!




Just so we have the facts straight, the legislation creating this panel dictated that McCarthy would make these picks, quote, "in consultation with Pelosi," meaning she could veto his choices. And this language to consult the speaker is the same wording that was used for the Republican-led select committee created to investigate the 2012 terrorist attack in Benghazi.

And we all know that the committee was bi-partisan.

Let's not change the facts, OK?
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 12:45:25 PM
Guys,

As the member who instigated this thread over 2 years ago, I requested that we wouldn't get divisive politics into any topic or post! Please cease! If you must discuss it with another member please PM them!!? Maybe Brian W will delete posts on the January 6th situation!??

Thanks, & Peace,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/6/2023 4:44:28 PM
It's a historic date....the only time in US History were the peaceful transfer of power was threatened by the loser(s).

Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 6:21:20 AM
Another dive into recent partisan politics will possibly be the death of MHO. Please desist.

Thanks,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 7:54:04 AM
Quote:
Another dive into recent partisan politics will possibly be the death of MHO. Please desist.

Thanks,

Colin


We are here to discuss history, and this is part of American History, unfortunatly.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 7:55:12 AM
On this day in US History,....

Congress sets January 7, 1789 as the date by which states are required to choose electors for the country's first-ever presidential election. A month later, on February 4, George Washington was elected president by state electors and sworn into office on April 30, 1789.​

As it did in 1789, the United States still uses the Electoral College system, established by the U.S. Constitution, which today gives all American citizens over the age of 18 the right to vote for electors, who in turn vote for the president. The president and vice president are the only elected federal officials chosen by the Electoral College instead of by direct popular vote.​

Today political parties usually nominate their slate of electors at their state conventions or by a vote of the party’s central state committee, with party loyalists often being picked for the job. Members of the U.S. Congress, though, can’t be electors. Each state is allowed to choose as many electors as it has senators and representatives in Congress. During a presidential election year, on Election Day (the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November), the electors from the party that gets the most popular votes are elected in a winner-take-all-system, with the exception of Maine and Nebraska, which allocate electors proportionally. In order to win the presidency, a candidate needs a majority of 270 electoral votes out of a possible 538.



On the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December of a presidential election year, each state’s electors meet, usually in their state capitol, and simultaneously cast their ballots nationwide. This is largely ceremonial: Because electors nearly always vote with their party, presidential elections are essentially decided on Election Day. Although electors aren’t constitutionally mandated to vote for the winner of the popular vote in their state, it is demanded by tradition and required by law in 26 states and the District of Columbia (in some states, violating this rule is punishable by $1,000 fine). Historically, over 99 percent of all electors have cast their ballots in line with the voters. On January 6, as a formality, the electoral votes are counted before Congress and on January 20, the commander in chief is sworn into office.

Critics of the Electoral College argue that the winner-take-all system makes it possible for a candidate to be elected president even if he gets fewer popular votes than his opponent. This happened in the elections of 1824, 1876, 1888, 2000 and 2016.
================================================== ================================================== ===============================

The record of peaceful transfers of power was ended by trump and his traitors who tried to overthrow the duly elected Administration.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 8:22:15 AM
Same fishing hole same sloppy hook
----------------------------------
nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 9:02:06 AM
Quote:
Same fishing hole same sloppy hook



“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 9:23:34 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Same fishing hole same sloppy hook



“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”


Exactly my thoughts on why folks continue to engage in your fishing expeditions
----------------------------------
nuts
Steve Clements
Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 910
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 11:32:42 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Another dive into recent partisan politics will possibly be the death of MHO. Please desist.

Thanks,

Colin


We are here to discuss history, and this is part of American History, unfortunatly.



Yeah….this looks a lot more like trolling than history.

It’s VERY current and it’s VERY political….and does not belong on the board.

s.c.


NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 12:07:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Another dive into recent partisan politics will possibly be the death of MHO. Please desist.

Thanks,

Colin


We are here to discuss history, and this is part of American History, unfortunatly.



Yeah….this looks a lot more like trolling than history.

It’s VERY current and it’s VERY political….and does not belong on the board.

s.c.





As it occurred 2 years ago, it is pure American History.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 12:39:33 PM
This section of the forum is titled, "This Day in World History". And yet every morning we are presented with events, sometimes obscure, from a sketchy website touted by NYGiant that panders to American biases or points of view only hence the introductory title, "This Day in American History". I think it should be moved to General History where those interested in the topic presented may comment.

We recall that in our recent past discussions surrounding Mr. Trump were acrimonious. I know. I was part of it. Unfortunately while we lost some members who were irrational at times, we also lost some solid and bright members who had tired of the acrimony. Let us not repeat it.

George
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 1:56:49 PM
Quote:


We recall that in our recent past discussions surrounding Mr. Trump were acrimonious. I know. I was part of it. Unfortunately while we lost some members who were irrational at times, we also lost some solid and bright members who had tired of the acrimony. Let us not repeat it.

George


Hi George

I have explained this to NY several times both on the boards and in private messages, he doesnt seem to care and seems committed to baiting folks into another quagmire of nasty political broadsides that gets nobody nowhere just gives headaches and brings out the worst in people. NY missed the Trump years on MHO we have been there done that it sucks. So NY get a Twitter account if you dont already have one, you can add your two cents into that cesspool and even get likes, this is not the place. Everyone has a political leaning and a religion (or lack of one) no minds will be changed here no points gained in a forum debate concerning politics just leaves everyone feeling like shit. As a troll though that may be your intent, I can see no other reason, your that guy at parties.

Anyone with a political leaning can pick a point in recent history and slant the event to make a political point, when the intent seems more political than historical its easily identified, some folks do it accidently or with good intentions or assume everyone thinks the same way. But those that do it constantly and then when called on it instead of giving an apology double down well then your just an asshole.

I for one will continue to ignore you NY but reserve the right to call you a troll once in awhile when it seems fitting.

vpatrick
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nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 2:52:25 PM
Quote:
Quote:


I for one will continue to ignore you NY but reserve the right to call you a troll once in awhile when it seems fitting.




Then, in reality, you will continue to read my posts.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 3:02:49 PM
Quote:


I for one will continue to ignore you NY but reserve the right to call you a troll once in awhile when it seems fitting.


Then, in reality, you will continue to read my posts.



Sure Ill read them just as one slows down to see a car accident
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nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 3:13:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:


I for one will continue to ignore you NY but reserve the right to call you a troll once in awhile when it seems fitting.


Then, in reality, you will continue to read my posts.



Sure Ill read them just as one slows down to see a car accident



It's nice to see that you read the columns I post every day!
Thanks!!
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 3:39:12 PM
Jan 7th 1942: German Army Chief of Staff Franz Halder notes in his diary that Colonel Hermann Ochsner is trying to talk him into using poison gas against the Soviets on the Eastern Front. These suggestions were rejected by the German high command. Hitler also rejected the use of poison gas after being subjected to it himself in WW1.


vpatrick
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nuts
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 4:15:39 PM
Quote:
It's nice to see that you read the columns I post every day!
Thanks!!


Disregarding the baiting and trolling that have been the hallmark of your tenure on this forum, it would be gratifying to see you actually compose a piece to post here. You know, some proof that you can construct a paragraph or two.

Everything that you produce, those "columns" to which you have just alluded are nothing more than cribbing and lazy cribbing at that.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 5:42:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It's nice to see that you read the columns I post every day!
Thanks!!




Everything that you produce, those "columns" to which you have just alluded are nothing more than cribbing and lazy cribbing at that.



So?
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 6:20:14 PM
your a boob


[Read More]



vpatrick
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nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 953
Joined: 2021
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 6:24:50 PM
Quote:
your a boob



Left or Right?
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 7:28:25 PM
This is Michigan Dave's forum



vpatrick
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nuts
RichTO90
Bremerton WA USA
Posts: 712
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 7:39:12 PM
Actually, it is Brian W's forum and website. Aside from the repeated trolling he might be concerned about the wholesale unattributed posting of material drawn from another website onto this forum but copyright issues on the internet are always a headache.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/7/2023 9:16:19 PM
VP, 7 or 8 posts back (though offered today) you note: Quote:
Jan 7th 1942: German Army Chief of Staff Franz Halder notes in his diary that Colonel Hermann Ochsner is trying to talk him into using poison gas against the Soviets on the Eastern Front. These suggestions were rejected by the German high command. Hitler also rejected the use of poison gas after being subjected to it himself in WW1.


Interesting issue to raise, given German use of poison gas in other aspects of warfare.

Poison gas was, of course, condemned as an illegal weapon of war, I believe under the charter of the League of Nations. Nations signatory to the League by and large rejected the use of gas, and only two original signatory nations – Japan and Italy – actually used such a weapon between the wars, IIRC. Also IIRC, at the time, both Italy (who used it in East Africa) and Japan (who used it in Manchukuo) had withdrawn from the League. Germany too would withdraw from the League, but would continue to reject gas as a weapon of warfare.

Nevertheless, all major belligerents (with the possible exception of China) developed and maintained stocks of gas-based ammunition. Somehow, none of the major belligerents committed to using gas. Oddly, IIRC the largest “accident” involving banned gas involved US gas ordnance being unloaded on the east coast of Italy. Cannisters (shells, bombs, mortars?) being unloaded were damaged during a German attack (can’t remember whether aerial or artillery) with some ugly impact on areas downwind of the breach. The attack was quickly hushed up, and not made public until long after the war.

Whether Hitler “rejected the use of poison gas after being subjected to it himself in WW1” is something I can’t confirm. Yes, he faced poison gas. Yes, he rejected its use. I’m just not certain it was causal.

I’ve not touched on whether Colonel Hermann Ochner was making a valid point, because the idea is new to me. Given the relatively early date (7 Jan 1942), Ochner may have seen gas as the final nudge which might collapse Moscow defenses. Keep in mind that while gas was being used intermittently by SS and Gestapo units on a minor scale early in the war, Ochner’s suggestion for the use of poison gas comes only some 14 days before the start of the Wannsee Conference. With no actual citation to offer, this suggests to me at least that as the German powers-that-were began countering blocks to their plans (not taking Russia before Mother Winter; not finding the Jewish “problem” solving itself) by considering nasty alternatives.

I’d love to hear from members who perhaps have more information about this than I do.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
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