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vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2522
Joined: 2020
This day in World History! Continued
1/8/2023 12:19:43 AM
Quote:
Actually, it is Brian W's forum and website. Aside from the repeated trolling he might be concerned about the wholesale unattributed posting of material drawn from another website onto this forum but copyright issues on the internet are always a headache.


I meant to say thread, Michigan Dave started this innocuous well meaning thread 2 years ago with good intentions, Dave doesnt do politics much always tries to get his thread back to its intended purpose and this prick NY is always trying to derail it. Be it a purposeful intention to piss off the Canadians or his desire to inflict the thread with his interpretation of recent events laced with his personal political beliefs. Something anyone can do for any reason and for any personal political motivation but most of us refrain from being another keyboard warrior dick and see the thread for what its intended purpose is these days.

vpatrick

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nuts
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/8/2023 11:13:00 PM
Getting back to the topic of on this day....
1969 First trial flight of Concorde supersonic jetliner, Bristol, England.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/9/2023 6:20:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Actually, it is Brian W's forum and website. Aside from the repeated trolling he might be concerned about the wholesale unattributed posting of material drawn from another website onto this forum but copyright issues on the internet are always a headache.


I meant to say thread, Michigan Dave started this innocuous well meaning thread 2 years ago with good intentions, Dave doesnt do politics much always tries to get his thread back to its intended purpose.

vpatrick



True enough guys,

I dispise politics, it divides not only our country but even families, & friends!?.Haven't posted lately,

Been busy traveling on our annual winter sojourn to the SE US, always take in some great history sites!?

Peace & regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 1:37:19 AM
10/01/2008 - New Zealand mountain climber and explorer Sir Edmund Hillary—who, with the Tibetan mountaineer Tenzing Norgay, was the first to summit Mount Everest—died at age 88.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 3:53:22 AM
This day in 1663 marked the moment when the transatlantic slave trade officially began, with royal approval.

In the annals of the Royal African Company, this granted the Company of Royal Adventurers of England a monopoly in the transportation of people from the west coast of Africa to the English colonies in the Americas explicitly sanctioning the buying and selling, bartering and exchanging of, for, and with any negro slaves, goods , wares and merchandizes whatsoever to be vended or found in Western Africa.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 1:17:50 PM
11th January - 1838 First public demonstration of telegraph messages sent using dots and dashes at Speedwell Ironworks in Morristown, New Jersey by Samuel Morse and Alfred Vail.
1879 Anglo-Zulu War begins as British Lt-General Chelmsford invades Zululand in South Africa
1922 Insulin first used on humans to treat diabetes, when Frederick Banting injects fellow Canadian Leonard Thompson, aged 14
1969 Jethro Tull's This Was Jethro Tull album debuts
1975 Soyuz 17 carries 2 cosmonauts to space station Salyut 4

So many more..............
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 5:42:59 PM
Hey guys,

History from 1-8 to 1-9,

1-8,

1935 Elvis Presley's birthday! Stars like Elvis & Marilyn Monroe, dieing early in life kind of become immortal! We never see them being old!? What say you??

1790 President George Washington delivers the 1st state of the Union address! Comments on our 1st President? Anyone??

1815 Andrew Jackson defeats the British in the Battle of New Orleans! Terrible situation for the British costs them dearly, in a one sided battle!? What say you??

1918 Pres. Woodrow Wilson gives his 14 points for peace! No one followed his advice, specially in the US? Why not?

1959 Charles deGaulle becomes the President of France's 5th Republic! What did he want Quebec Canada to do?? Comments??

1-9,

1861 Mississippi becomes the 2nd state to secede from the Union! Did they also have a large population of enslaved people?? Comments anyone??

1913 Richard Nixon is born! " I'm not a crook" fame! Comments??

1960 construction on the Aswan high Dam begins in Egypt! Why didn't the west help where the Russians did? What say you?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 5:43:04 PM
"Goin' up to 'Pool."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 5:47:38 PM
Quote:
So going back to non divisive history, here are some events from 1-9 today in world history!

1349, 700 Jews burned alive in Switzerland! Boy hatred of Jews goes way back! Comments on why, & is it prelivant today??.anyone?

1431, Joan of Arc, was on trial for her life, why would a military commander who just happened to be a female have to face this? What say you??

1718 France declared war on Spain! Why & who did England side with??

1806 Admiral Horatio Nelson's state funeral is going on! What's your take on why Lord Nelson is held in such high esteme! Comments?

1839 the 1st photo of a person, just in time to Chronicle the coming Civil War! Any sites with good first photography??

1861 firing on a ship relieving Fort Sumter, also Mississippi breaks away from the Union! Comments on the beginning of the Civil War, anyone?

1909 Sir Ernest Shackleton goes further south than ever before. What's your take on the leadership of Sir Ernest!?

1936 US Army adopts Semi-automatic rifles, just in time for WWII, anyone have more on these weapons or your countries weapons??

1945 MacArthur returns to the Philippines, was this in your opinion necessary??

1964 there was rioting against the US in Panama, why? I thought everyone like d the US??

Lets get back to non divisive history! Please!
Surely you can find something to comment on here?
Peace,
MD

BTW please check the above web sites for more topics!

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/10/2023 5:48:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
So going back to history, here are some events from 1-9, & 1-10 today in world history!

1349, 700 Jews burned alive in Switzerland! Boy hatred of Jews goes way back! Comments on why, & is it prelivant today??.anyone?

1431, Joan of Arc, was on trial for her life, why would a military commander who just happened to be a female have to face this? What say you??

1718 France declared war on Spain! Why & who did England side with??

1806 Admiral Horatio Nelson's state funeral is going on! What's your take on why Lord Nelson is held in such high esteme! Comments?

1839 the 1st photo of a person, just in time to Chronicle the coming Civil War! Any sites with good first photography??

1861 firing on a ship relieving Fort Sumter, also Mississippi breaks away from the Union! Comments on the beginning of the Civil War, anyone?

1909 Sir Ernest Shackleton goes further south than ever before. What's your take on the leadership of Sir Ernest!?

1936 US Army adopts Semi-automatic rifles, just in time for WWII, anyone have more on these weapons or your countries weapons??

1945 MacArthur returns to the Philippines, was this in your opinion necessary??

Surely you can find something to comment on here?
Peace,
MD

BTW please check the above web sites for more topics,

2019 Canadian Astronomer s pick up rapid signals from outer space! this happened in BC,
Possibly Aliens!? What say you, to much Canadian brewskies??


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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 7:20:20 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
How about today's, ? cheers,
Stay safe
,MD


BTW

Thanks guys,

For keeping to just history topics!

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 7:20:43 AM


Here are some events from 1-11 in history:

1871 Alabama seceded from the Union, have you ever read the various documents of secession from the various Confederate states, they all complain about losing property rites, that property was slaves!! Comments, anyone?

1863 CSS Alabama & the USS Hatteras are involved in a fierce naval engagement off Galveston, Texas! Great Britain aided the Confederate Navy with ships & men! Why? I thought that the British despised slavery!? Any insights on why they helped the Rebs? & did they pay restitution later?? What say you??

1879 the Anglos Zulu War begins, were the British justified in this war? Comments??

1935 Amelia Earhart flies from Hawaii to California, later she will.mysteriously disappear in the Pacific! Some accuse the Japanese with her disappearance!? What is your take on what happened to her?? Anyone?

Today in 1836 famous brew master John Molson dies, where do you rate Molson beer?? BTW I think I'll have one!! It does seem some beer connoisseurs consider it no more than carbonated water! What say you??

Also great posts on America's Lend Lease to GB in WWII, lets keep discussing interesting history! Any comments on today 1-11 in history, check above, & comment!!!



Stay civil,
Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 7:27:28 AM
Quote:
11th January - 1838 First public demonstration of telegraph messages sent using dots and dashes at Speedwell Ironworks in Morristown, New Jersey by Samuel Morse and Alfred Vail.
1879 Anglo-Zulu War begins as British Lt-General Chelmsford invades Zululand in South Africa
1922 Insulin first used on humans to treat diabetes, when Frederick Banting injects fellow Canadian Leonard Thompson, aged 14
1969 Jethro Tull's This Was Jethro Tull album debuts
1975 Soyuz 17 carries 2 cosmonauts to space station Salyut 4

So many more..............



Thanks Wazza,

Great historical events, glad for your contributions from Oz!

BTW, Where is everyone? C'mon guys, get along, & stay the course!?

Cheers,
MD

PS, seems like I been talking to my self the last few days? If you check the recent above posts, there are tons of topics to discuss!????? C'mon guys!?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 3:28:27 PM
Quote:
1863 CSS Alabama & the USS Hatteras are involved in a fierce naval engagement off Galveston, Texas! Great Britain aided the Confederate Navy with ships & men! Why? I thought that the British despised slavery!? Any insights on why they helped the Rebs? & did they pay restitution later?? What say you??


Great Britain was neutral and watching which way that the wind was blowing in the US Civil War. Trade and gaining wealth was its primary interest and the civil war was putting a spanner in the works.

The companies that built ships that became warships for the Confederate forces were private companies. Britain did not build ships for either side but certainly British companies did. They were not in violation of British neutrality laws so long as they did not outfit the ships for war; no cannon or other armaments, just a ship. Of course, it could be easily seen that the ships that were being constructed were easily outfitted for war purposes.

Britain then was dealing with a legal dilemma. Under the law, the ship builders were not in violation of British neutrality laws. How then could the judicial system prevent the ship builders from selling ships to any buyer?

The Confederate government was not buying these vessels directly. They used intermediaries or straw buyers although there was a Confederate agent negotiating with the builders. Eventually, the British government did crack down at the urging of US emissary Charles Adams. They had to do something about a ship built in a British yard that was outfitted with ramming devices. It was pretty clear that those ships were not going cod fishing.

I don't think that the issue of slavery had anything to do with the decision to ignore the construction of war making vessels. Yes, there was a large percentage of the British population that despised slavery but when Lincoln did not initially declare emancipation of slaves, there was some disillusionment among the general public and politicians who were anti-slavery. After all, Britain had abolished slavery in 1833. Lincoln did not appear to be seriously dedicated to ending the institution.

So Britain was neutral but it did recognize the Confederate soldiers as belligerents but did not recognize the Confederate States as a country. I wonder if it is fair to say that the British were more interested in maintaining trade relations with both the US and the Confederate States and not overly concerned with the moral dilemma surrounding slavery and association with a group that favoured slavery.

Of interest to me is whether Britain and France came close to entering the war in support of the Confederacy. The Trent Affair in 1861 was a violation of British sovereignty and Lincoln's initial reluctance to free the slaves could have brought the British in since Lincoln gave them no reason to believe that slavery would be abolished. Add in the fact that Britain needed cotton from the south and Britain could have concocted a reason to support the Confederacy.

The RN could still have eliminated the blockade of ports by the Union and set up their own blockade of US ports. As for the French, it had designs on Mexico but it was also ostensibly neutral in the internal US conflict. But it had troops in Mexico at the beginning of the US civil war and had they been victorious in Mexico at that time and had the Confederacy looked convincing as a winner, France too could have entered on the side of the Confederates.

It is quite likely that Britain and France would have to be allies in any endeavour to support the Confederacy. In the end of course, the Union began to show that it would win and Lincoln did emancipate the slaves. Both countries remained neutral and both were more concerned with their own needs than the needs of the Confederacy or the Union.

The British however were embarrassed by the success of CSS Alabama which was allowed to slip away from Britain and wreaked havoc upon US ships and they did take legal steps to hopefully ensure that it could not happen again. Britain seized one vessel in 1863 under the Foreign Enlistment Act and with court cases and multiple appeals, and counter law suits, it was hoped that ship builders could not continue to supply the Confederates. Legal precedent was being established.

But the ship builders, British subjects with rights could also sue to establish their right to sell any vessel not out fitted for war. They felt that they were in compliance with the letter of the law if not the intent of the law.

Eventually, the British government had to use executive power to seize the Laird Rams. They kept a better eye on the Confederate agent who was negotiating to have ships built.

The US was angry at Britain because of the damage done by CSS Alabama and felt that Britain should pay restitution. And so the US demanded that restitution and negotiations took place in the years following the war..

I want to add that Canada once again became a pawn in the discussions as there were elements in the US that felt that the surrender of British North America would serve as just reparations in the Alabama Claims. Manifest Destiny was not dead and the acquisition of BNA seemed within the grasp of the US. And the US was definitely still in expansion mode in the Civil War era. The fact that Confederate agents had operated out of cities in BNA was another reason to feel that the Alabama Claims could be quickly settled if the British ceded Canada.

The Fenian raids into Canada by disaffected Irish-American former civil war soldiers were initially tolerated by the US administration of 1866 as those raids would put pressure on Britain to negotiate fairly if they knew that their colonies were in danger.

The Alaska treaty of 1867 was touted as a step toward annexation of all of Canada. Even as the US pressured GB to make restitution on the Alabama Claims, they also sent agents like William Seward into Canada to engage in a little PR work to convince Canadians that their future was with the US. Seward and other politicians attempted to convince British politicians that British Columbians were more than ready to join the union.

The Alabama Claims were not settled until 1871. Canada had achieved Dominion status and greater independence in 1867 and still some in the US were excited by the prospect of acquiring Canada as a fair recovery for losses sustained during the civil war attributed to ships like CSS Alabama which were built in Britain.

Eventually an international arbitration tribunal met in Geneva and Britain agreed to provide $15 million in restitution and Canada was safe though wary of its neighbour to the south.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 7:51:37 PM
Quote:
Today in 1836 famous brew master John Molson dies, where do you rate Molson beer?? BTW I think I'll have one!! It does seem some beer connoisseurs consider it no more than carbonated water! What say you??


John Molson was quite the entrepreneur. Born in England in 1763, he emigrated to Canada in 1782. He was apparently sickly and his doctor recommended that he settle in Canada. So the Revolutionary war was wrapping up and there were British soldiers who were granted land in Canada and Loyalists who had to be resettled. Both were beer lovers and so Molson established a brewery just outside of Montréal.

7 generations of Molson's have operated the brewery but in 2005 the brewery merged with Coors.

The original Molson, John Molson became a wealthy man who expanded his business a number of times. But he wasn't only into beer. He also established a steamship travel business on the St. Lawrence River and the Great Lakes. He was a hotelier too and a politician and president of the Bank of Montreal.

As to the beer, it's OK. When I was a young guy, it sounded pretty cool to tell the bar keeper at a pub that I wanted an "EX". Of course, that was a Molson Export. Or you would ask for a "Canadian" as in Molson Canadian.

But this is factory line beer and it's just OK. My preference is for craft brews. But "carbonated water"?? Please. If so that could only have happened after the merger with Coors.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/11/2023 9:39:02 PM
Quote:
Today in 1836 famous brew master John Molson dies, where do you rate Molson beer?? BTW I think I'll have one!! It does seem some beer connoisseurs consider it no more than carbonated water! What say you??

I assume there is nothing wrong with brews from Molson if those are the kinds of brews one wants to drink. Certainly, for decades in the 20th century there were only 3 national breweries in Canada, and Molson’s (along with Labatt’s and Carling-O’Keefe) was one of the big three. To be honest, until about 1967 they all tasted very much the same.

There were an increasing number of regional breweries which offered a distinct taste; Uncle Ben’s in BC was one, and Creemore (?SP) in Ontario another just as examples. Uncle Ben’s is long-gone, swallowed by one of the big 3; Creemore remains distinctive because although it too was bought out by one of the big 3, the story goes that the sellers wrote their recipe into the sales agreement as inalterable.

Big 3 beer wasn’t carbonated water. It was brewed at two strengths (IIRC at 5.5 and 6.5 percent by volume). It was served cold, which killed some of the flavour. But without the chilling, one began to taste some of the chemicals by which the brewing process was controlled. None of the Big 3 brewed by 1516 standards.

Another problem holding back what is now called “craft” beer was the sales structure in most of Canada. Alcohol (and beer and wine) are typically sold through separate government-licensed outlets. Ontario was slightly different, but basically the same. The contents of these government-regulated stores were at the whim of government or government-controlled agencies.We all know how lobbies function: buy your way in, and pay to keep others from doing so.

Popular history has it that the big change took place when a brew pub named Spinnaker’s opened in Victoria BC in the mid 1980s. They were the first pub licensed to brew and serve beer on premises. I still pop into Spinnaker’s from time to time for a pint of their Bitter. But the point is that Spinnaker’s broke the status quo. Beer was freed from many restrictions. Craft beer was born.

I haven’t drunk a Big 3 beer in close to 30 years. Why would I, when there are something like a dozen craft brewers on Vancouver Island! There is a newly-opened pub in town which (I hear; I haven’t tried) has 75 local beers on tap.

There is, IMHO, a problem arising. Various craft breweries have refocused their clientele. Imagine a craft beer with the taste of mangoes and apricots. Or a beer with strawberry. That’s happening, as breweries focus on new, younger markets. They could destroy what craft beer has supposed to mean.

Cheers
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 7:58:07 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Today in 1836 famous brew master John Molson dies, where do you rate Molson beer?? BTW I think I'll have one!! It does seem some beer connoisseurs consider it no more than carbonated water! What say you??

I assume there is nothing wrong with brews from Molson if those are the kinds of brews one wants to drink. Certainly, for decades in the 20th century there were only 3 national breweries in Canada, and Molson’s (along with Labatt’s and Carling-O’Keefe) was one of the big three. To be honest, until about 1967 they all tasted very much the same.

There were an increasing number of regional breweries which offered a distinct taste; Uncle Ben’s in BC was one, and Creemore (?SP) in Ontario another just as examples. Uncle Ben’s is long-gone, swallowed by one of the big 3; Creemore remains distinctive because although it too was bought out by one of the big 3, the story goes that the sellers wrote their recipe into the sales agreement as inalterable.

Cheers
Brian G



Hi Brian,

Great you should bring up Creemore Brewed Beer, my wife and I visited it and it's towns namesake, just before Covid hit. It's located just south of Collingwood, Ont. We have a condo there, not ours, we just rent. It's a picturesque village with a great bakery that has the best homemade variety of, & (George will understand this), butter tarts! Plus the Creemore Springs Brewery is the best they give you a free huge flite of their delicious beer line, & their pub serves the best fish, & chips!

So your post brought back good memories!
Got to get back there!

Cheers, & we'll drink to our health!
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 8:08:07 AM
Hello Brian,

As a former resident, you will remember the Brewers Retail outlets in Ontario. Perhaps you remember calling them the "in and out" because of the set-up of the store with an "in" door and a counter behind it where you placed your order, paid and then slid along to the conveyor belt that brought your order to the front. Pick it up, turn around and head for the "out" door.

They are much different stores now except in the small towns and rather than Brewers Retail, all stores are called "The Beer Store". But Brewers Retail or the Beer Store is not a government agency as you know. It was a consortium of the Big 3 originally authorized by the government regulators to sell their beer products. And the original Big 3 were all Canadian companies. With mergers and sales, The Beer Store became the playground of Sapporo of Japan, Molson-Coors and the Belgian consortium whose name escapes me.

They fought very hard in this province to keep the small players like Sleeman's Brewery or Creemore, out of the retail sales business. The regulations were changed because the craft brewers protested this monopoly but even then, the buy-in to the beer selling club was steep for any brewery that wished to display and sell product.

As the number of craft brewers increased, the only way to sample product was to head to the brewery to the ale house that carried the product and was attached to the brewery. The craft brewers got together and demanded that they be permitted to create their own retail sales outlet.

The provincial government decided to amend the Liquor Control Act to allow the sale of beer and wine in corner stores and grocery stores.

The Beer Store still exists and turned a profit of nearly 300 million dollars in 2016 even with competition from brew pubs, craft breweries and grocery stores. One thing that I will say is that the Beer Store operates a can and bottle recycling programme that has received international praise. The government controlled LCBO outlets that also sell beer, wine and spirits contracted with the Beer Store to recycle products sold in the LCBO.

Cheers,

George
Steve Clements
Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 910
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 12:29:54 PM
Quote:
Great you should bring up Creemore Brewed Beer, my wife and I visited it and it's towns namesake, just before Covid hit. It's located just south of Collingwood, Ont. We have a condo there, not ours, we just rent. It's a picturesque village with a great bakery that has the best homemade variety of, & (George will understand this), butter tarts! Plus the Creemore Springs Brewery is the best they give you a free huge flite of their delicious beer line, & their pub serves the best fish, & chips!


Dave,

I have only been to Creemore once and it was, of course, to visit the brewery. Always been a fan of Creemore, especially the draft, which is available in a lot of the pubs and bars in southern Ontario. Anyone that thinks that a lager doesn't have "flavour" has never had a Creemore-:)

What time of year is your rental in Collingwood? I know that you are a fan of butter tarts....the town of MIdland (maybe an hour east and north of Collingwood??) has a HUGE butter tart festival every summer. They close the entire main street of the town....it is butter tart nirvana-:)

s.c.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 1:15:34 PM
The really important news is that this is my birthday. Seventy-two circuits of the Sun.
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 1:44:15 PM
Quote:
The really important news is that this is my birthday. Seventy-two circuits of the Sun.

Happy birthday. I didn't realize how young you are. I'll be 73 in two months.
Gary
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 2:17:05 PM
Happy birthday, OP. Enjoy your day.

Cheers,

George
RichTO90
Bremerton WA USA
Posts: 712
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 2:17:16 PM
Quote:
The really important news is that this is my birthday. Seventy-two circuits of the Sun.


And here I thought you were an old guy. Happy Birthday!
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 3:21:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Great you should bring up Creemore Brewed Beer, my wife and I visited it and it's towns namesake, just before Covid hit. It's located just south of Collingwood, Ont. We have a condo there, not ours, we just rent. It's a picturesque village with a great bakery that has the best homemade variety of, & (George will understand this), butter tarts! Plus the Creemore Springs Brewery is the best they give you a free huge flite of their delicious beer line, & their pub serves the best fish, & chips!


Dave,

I have only been to Creemore once and it was, of course, to visit the brewery. Always been a fan of Creemore, especially the draft, which is available in a lot of the pubs and bars in southern Ontario. Anyone that thinks that a lager doesn't have "flavour" has never had a Creemore-:)

What time of year is your rental in Collingwood? I know that you are a fan of butter tarts....the town of MIdland (maybe an hour east and north of Collingwood??) has a HUGE butter tart festival every summer. They close the entire main street of the town....it is butter tart nirvana-:)

s.c.



Hi Steve,

Actually its more like a Condo Club, where we can stay all over, we pick the condos & the times, if we pick one in Collingwood we usually do it in May, to stay prime time in the summer costs us more! That's how we currently are down south at Hilton Head, South Carolina! Wish we could get Creemore Springs Beer here!?

Butter Tart festival sounds yummy!
Regards,
MD

BTW Happy Birth Day OP!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 8:36:41 PM
OP, Happy Birthday to you. How did John Hancock, way back in 1737, manage to choose for his own birth the day you would make famous?

I have a buddy who was born on July 1, Canada’s birthday. For much of his childhood, he thought Canada was celebrating his birthday every year … .

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 9:41:34 PM
Happy Birthday OP.
Mines tomorrow on the 14th.

Capricornian's rule!!!
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1973
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/12/2023 10:07:40 PM
I didn't know people were still being born!
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/13/2023 7:10:31 AM
Welcome to Friday the thirteenth! Are any of you superstitious??

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

2 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-13, in history?

1733 James Oglethorpe, & 130 English Colonists arrive in Charleston, SC. Soon he will found a Colony in Savannah, he will name Georgia! I am following in his footsteps beginning next week! Ya gotta love history, & warmer weather!

1849 Vancouver Island is granted to Hudson Bay Company, what effect will this have on Western Canada? Anyone?

1865 the 2nd battle of Fort Fisher begins, this vital Confederate Fort will fall to the Union, cutting off Wilmington, NC. and the Cape Fear River. Really hurting supplies to the South! I've been there, a really great historic site, what say you about how this loss of this Gibraltar of the Confederacy, really hurt the South!?

1915 WS Churchill Lord of the Admiralty, proposes an attack on the Dardanelles! How does this turn into a horrific mistake!? What say you??

1942 German U boats begin attacking the East Coast of the US & Canada, why is this called
their "happy time!"!?? Comments??

1943 Hitler declares total war on the Allies! What the he'll was he doing before that?? Say what??

cheers,
MD

Hi George,

I almost forgot? Yesterday 1-12-2023, in history, my Detroit Red Wings finally won a regulation NHL game against your Toronto Maple Leafs, 4-1. BTW where is Scott, & his 1st place Bruins??

Can you say " let's go Red Wings!?

Regards,
MD


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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/13/2023 8:03:00 AM
Also I would be remiss, if I didn't mention a new item I ran across this morning, that 100 years ago, the Rosewood Massacre, January 13, 1923, happened! A Remembrance will be held in Gainsville, Fl. today, for a racial incident going back 100 years ago called the Rosewood Massacre, where an entire town of African Americans located near Cedar Key, Fl. were terrorized, and many killed. (not an isolated event, this kind of thing happened more than people care to mention!?) This terrible racist event started when a white women said she was assaulted by a black man!? Sound familiar?

A sad episode in racial history, around 1920's, and adjoining decades it was a very tough time for African Americans in the south! Perhaps someone could post a article or website on it, my tablet can't retrieve articles ect. Also at this time the KKK was very strong!

History even sad negative history, is worth knowing about!?
Comments, anyone??
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/13/2023 8:14:51 AM
Quote:
1942 German U boats begin attacking the East Coast of the US & Canada, why is this called
their "happy time!"!?? Comments??


This period occurred quite soon after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The USN had been involved in convoy escort in the North Atlantic despite the fact that they were ostensibly neutral. With the attack, most of the ships assigned to convoy escort, were redeployed to the Pacific. In a deal brokered between the US and the UK, the US had actually been given operational control of the western zone of the North Atlantic. The RCN had actually, much to its chagrin, been told to accept this situation by the Admiralty. With the departure of most of the USN and USCG vessels, the RCN and RN were compelled to reorganize the convoys and the escorts.

Admiral Doenitz sent his u-boats to the eastern shores of the US. The Canadians and the British were shocked that the USN had rejected a convoy system for merchant vessels travelling from the Caribbean and headed for Halifax or Sydney to be integrated into convoys that were assembled in those ports. Apparently US Admiral King felt that unless an inshore convoy was heavily escorted that it was best to have no convoy at all. Allow the merchant ships to disperse. I have read that King rejected British offers to provide ships to escort vessels up the east coast of the US. He certainly seemed to despise all things British.

Now the US was not completely bereft of naval vessels on the east coast but perhaps they did not exist in sufficient numbers to escort convoys. I don't know how many ships that they had. The USN did order regular patrols on regular routes and the u-boats quickly figured that out and just avoided the patrols.

Doenitz kept a minimum of 12 subs on station along the east coast and they had a field day during this second "happy time".

Marc Milner is a well known historian in Canada who has written extensively about the RCN and the Battle of the Atlantic. In one essay written in the Legion magazine, he had this to say:

Quote:
In February 1942, more ships were sunk by U-boats off the American east coast than had been sunk globally in any previous month of war: the first of a grim string of record setting by the U-boat fleet.
. source: Marc Milner

These attacks should not have been a surprise. British intelligence had reported the presence of u-boats off the east coast of the US and informed US authorities that there", Quote:
is a heavy concentration off the North American seaboard from New York to Cape Race.”


Marc Milner has written that there was no organizational reason why the US could not have set up convoys from the Caribbean to the assembly points in Canada.

The RCN did begin to escort convoys from Maine to the Caribbean and back but the RCN was a growing navy and its performance had been limited by its numbers of ships and the lack of modern submarine detection equipment and insufficient training time. Both the RCN and RN had cobbled together a convoy escort system despite not having sufficient numbers of vessels to do the job in 1939. They did so with armed yachts, mine sweepers and later corvettes and basically anything that they had that could be used for ASW. Initially the presence of a destroyer was an important addition if available.

Milner suggests that the comparatively poor performance of the RCN escorts earlier in the war may have led the US to believe that poorly escorted convoys were not effective. US doctrine suggested that an effective convoy escort system should provide for the opportunity to attack and destroy u-boats. The British felt that in the absence of effective attack vessels that convoys should still run with well trained close support vessels whose role was to keep the u-boats away from the convoy rather than to break off to hunt u-boats.

And so it was the RCN that set up the first convoys to run up the east coast from the Caribbean. The RN sent trawlers over to assist.

It took until mid-May of 1942 before the US instituted full convoys. The reduction in the number of losses was immediate and Doenitz pulled his u-boats from the US shores. The second "happy time" was over by August but the allied losses were extreme.



Marc Milner has called the failure of the US to introduce a convoy system on the east coast a blunder of immense proportions.

Here is his article from the Legion magazine

[Read More]

Cheers,

George



George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/13/2023 8:15:42 AM
double
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/13/2023 1:12:35 PM
Quote:
1849 Vancouver Island is granted to Hudson Bay Company, what effect will this have on Western Canada? Anyone?


British trading companies on the west coast were well established in the Oregon Territory. The Hudson Bay Co. was the administrative body and the effective government of the Oregon Territory until 1846 when the Oregon Treaty established US control of the territory and also set the international boundary at the 49th parallel.

Britain wanted to stymie US expansionist goals. The US was of the belief that it was destined to rule over this continent. That belief was given a name in 1845 and was called Manifest Destiny.

With the terms of the Oregon Treaty set, one would think that that would put an end to US expansion goals but it did not. And so the British felt that it had to aggressively colonize BC and Vancouver to establish sovereignty. But there were British politicians who had grown weary of the cost of colonization and the cost to establish a new colony on Vancouver Island would be high, billions in today's dollars.

As Britain had done before in other colonization attempts, it was eager to find a private partner to assume the costs of colonization on Vancouver Island and HBC was one of the companies that bid to be the colonizers of the island. The British government knew that HBC was not only experienced in the administration of colonies but had the money to do it with little risk to the British government. For HBC's part, it coveted Vancouver Island because it wanted to set up its regional administrative offices at Fort Victoria.

So the Royal Charter of Grant was issued on this day in 1849. There was a price tag of seven shillings a year to maintain rights to the charter. HBC was already trading in the west and had set up trading posts in the Oregon Territory prior to 1846 and ironically, the company provided goods and services to the American settlers who were flocking to the area.

And so HBC could not only expand trade to the north of the line but under the charter it had the responsibility to encourage settlement in the colony. HBC would also have to accept that the Colonial Office and the crown would be represented in the colony by an appointed governor.

The attempt to colonize was only marginally successful partly because of the conditions upon which HBC provided land to settlers.

Quote:
HBC set the price of land at one pound per acre, and the minimum purchase was 20 acres of land. Any purchaser of 100 acres or more was required to bring five single men, or three married​ couples with them, for every 100 acres. Colonists were also required to pay the cost of travel to the new colony. These strict settlement requirements, coupled with the high cost of travel, proved a deterrent to colonization.


It wasn't until 1866 that the colony of Vancouver Island and the colony of British Columbia amalgamated and became the colony of British Columbia. Confederation and the creation of Canada took place in 1867 but BC did not enter Confederation until 1871. The Dominion of Canada had had to promise an east-west rail line to link BC with the east to convince the Colony of BC that its future was with Canada.

From 1849 until 1871 the US still had designs on western lands to the north of the 49th. As late as 1865, the US attempted to encourage the small population of BC to accept annexation to the US.

William Seward, Sec. of State in Lincoln's government was very active in a plot to annex BC. He not only sent agents and himself to lobby the citizens of BC to consider annexation but he lobbied British politicians who were disenchanted with the cost of maintaining an Empire. He had convinced some that the subjects in BC were excited about joining the US. The Dominion of Canada engaged in discussions with British politicians to convince them that most BC citizens were more than happy to remain British subjects. It was critical for Canada that British politicians continued to support this western colony and not to consider off loading it to the US.

There is an interesting article on jstor titled,"Seward's Attempt to Annex British Columbia, 1865-1869".

[Read More]

Given that the US was aggressively seeking expansion to the north with little regard to the terms of the Oregon Treaty, the establishment of a British Crown Colony on Vancouver Island appears to have been important to Canada which also sought to expand to the west to create a nation from coast to coast to coast. British sovereignty in BC and on Vancouver Island ensured that British influence including some troops and the RN was present and that, short of causing a war, the US had to show some respect for that political arrangement. William Seward was another matter. He was an anglophobe and spoke throughout his life that British North America should and would be joined with the USA. Seward was a much despised man in the British colonies and later in Canada.

Cheers,

George




Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2023 2:40:57 AM
So today is my birthday (14th) and I share it with some familiar names:
Dave Grohl
Carl Weathers
Faye Dunaway
LL Cool J
Jason Bateman.

Also on this day in World History
Dianna Ross and the Supremes final concert together
The Continental Congress ratified the Peace of Paris (1783) with Great Britain, which recognized the independence of the United States.
Baseball player Joe DiMaggio and actress Marilyn Monroe married at City Hall in San Francisco.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2023 6:28:44 AM
Happy Birthday Wazza !

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2023 7:36:41 AM
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-14, in history?
cheers,
MD

Hey guys,

Check out today in history, for example,

In 1129 the Knights Templar gains approval, what's with these guys? Are they the big deal history seems to make of them? What say you??

1799 Eli Whitney receives a government contract for10,000 muskets! Why Whitney? I never knew he had anything to do with these guns? Anyone know? He will invent the Cotton Gin which really leads to a lot more slaves in the South! Actually another cause of the Civil War!? What say you? Anyone??

1861 Fort Pickens in Pensacola, FL. falls into State hands, the Fort will remain held by the Union throughout the war even though the main land stays Confederate! Great history site, I've been there several times! Questions on how this fort was tough for the Tens to take? Anyone?

1864, Gen. PT Sherman begins his march to the sea, was he a terrorist or just a good general taking it to the South!? What say you??

1911, Roald Amundsen lands in Antarctica heading to the South Pole! Why did he succeed & Robert Falcon Scott fail!? Was it worth lives just to reach the pole 1st? Tragic!? Comments, anyone??

& 1997 French Canadian General Dollard Menard passes away! Anyone know about this guy??

What say you, about these things???
Regards,
MD

BTW Thanks George, for filling us in on early WWII lack of Uboat defense by the USN in. history! Also the effects of the Oregon Treaty on Canada, & the US!!

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2023 7:38:41 AM
Quote:
So today is my birthday (14th) and I share it with some familiar names:
Dave Grohl
Carl Weathers
Faye Dunaway
LL Cool J
Jason Bateman.

Also on this day in World History
Dianna Ross and the Supremes final concert together
The Continental Congress ratified the Peace of Paris (1783) with Great Britain, which recognized the independence of the United States.
Baseball player Joe DiMaggio and actress Marilyn Monroe married at City Hall in San Francisco.



Happy Birthday Wazza! 😀
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 814
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
1/14/2023 7:13:34 PM
Cheers guys
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 8:25:45 AM
January 15, in history!!!!

[Read More]

[Read More]

2 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-15, in history?

cheers, & stay safe, & please comment!

For example in 1535 King Henry the VIII declares himself head of the Church of England, so much for the division of church & state! What was that all about??

1539 Elizabeth I crowned Queen of England! Where does she rate as far as successful Queens go?? Anyone?

1945 the Mahattan Project take their 1st pictures of Nuclear Implosion at Los Alamos, see the 1st read more above for the fascinating photo! What say you about how this will impact the world! Comments?

1970 Muammar Quad a for if proclaimed Premier of Lybia! Why did the West despise him!? What ultimately happened to him & his regime?? What say you??

1998 NASA announces John Glenn 76 will be the oldest Astronaut to fly in Space, what a life Glenn lead! Comments??

BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??

What say you? about these fascinating topics?
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 11:40:53 AM
Quote:
BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??


Which post was that, MD. I don't remember any criticism of Canada and "friendly fire" incidents. Please refresh my memory.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:03:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:
BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??


Dave, I had never assume that the post was critical of Canadians in particular. Were you assuming that all of the friendly fire incidents were committed by Canadians soldiers? I have always assumed that in the confusion men were shooting at air and could have been hitting men from their own regiment.

I mean, I do not know who killed whom. The invasion force was just over 34,000 strong and of those 5,300 were Canadians and the Canadians were all wearing US kit. I believe that 34 Americans and 4 Canadians lost their lives. Not all of the deaths were caused by rifle fire. Some stepped on Japanese mines. Others were killed by booby traps.

One Canadian was wounded by MG fire coming out of the fog. A CDN officer died when he stepped on a mine. Three other Canadians were killed by booby traps or ammunition accidents. I don't know where and how the Americans died.

There were no Japanese on the island. They had effected a remarkable escape when USN vessels in the area were preoccupied with radar blips that concerned them.

The US troops landed on Aug. 15, 1943 and the CDN 13 Mountain Brigade came ashore the next day.

Interestingly, the First Special Service Force commandos were also involved in this operation and it was the first group landed.

It was foggy when Operation Cottage began and allied soldiers were shooting into the fog at ghosts. They thought that they were being sniped at by Japanese. The sounds of battle in the fog made them nervous and unfortunately, men were killed by their own.

Note that all troops looked the same as the Canadians wore US uniforms including US helmets, over their Canadian battle dress.



This map shows where the various allied units landed. Note that the Devil's Brigade led all forces into Kiska at both landing sites. We can see that the bulk of the US forces landed well away from the Canadian forces.




Cheers,

George

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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