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Message
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:04:07 PM
Quote:
Hi MD,

Operation Cottage was all one invasion group under US command. There were two major landing areas but I do not know whether the two groups came together at any time.

I understand that when the fog rolled in, it was impossible to see. And there was a lot of noise from artillery and MG and rifle fire. Men felt as though they were being sniped at. I don't believe that they fired at men that they could see but at ghosts in the fog.

As well, some men stepped on mines or tripped booby traps left by the Japanese. This would add to the tension and the noise of battle. These men had been told that they were in for a tough fight. I suppose that they felt that every explosion was evidence of Japanese presence.


Prior to this invasion, the US bombed the hell out of Kiska when the Japanese were present. But I do not know how the successful evacuation of over 5,000 Japanese soldiers took place without the allies finding out. Apparently, the Japanese evacuation fleet of two cruisers and six destroyers slipped in, in the fog, and removed all the men and they did so in less than an hour. This was on July 28.

The CDN and US forces were in preparation for the invasion at that time. That happened a little over two weeks later and no-one noticed that the Japanese were gone. Certainly, it was embarrassing.

Quote:
The event was best summed up by the army's commanding general in Alaska, Simon B. Buckner, who said, "To attract maximum attention, it's hard to find anything more effective than a great big, juicy, expensive mistake.”


The Kiska battle site is well preserved because there are no people there. The US National Parks Service has preserved evidence of the Japanese occupation and it was quite extensive including sod covered accommodation and gun emplacements. US and CDN forces stayed for a few months to discourage the Japanese from coming and there is evidence of their short time there.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George

EDIT: The following article describes the brilliant and stealthy evacuation by the Japanese navy. The fleet had a bit of luck but it did evade USN blockade vessels and did navigate through the fog to find their way to Kiska. The luck came when USN vessels sailed away in response to radar blips. Good fortune smiled on the Japanese, I guess.

And the allied air forces continued to bomb the vacated island right up until the US/CDN invasion. Perhaps the weather was so bad that the air crew could not detect any activity on Kiska.

[Read More]

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:05:06 PM
Quote:
January 15, in history!!!!

[Read More]

[Read More]

2 perpetual sites, check for topics. for 1-15, in history?

cheers, & stay safe, & please comment!

For example in 1535 King Henry the VIII declares himself head of the Church of England, so much for the division of church & state! What was that all about??

1539 Elizabeth I crowned Queen of England! Where does she rate as far as successful Queens go?? Anyone?

1945 the Mahattan Project take their 1st pictures of Nuclear Implosion at Los Alamos, see the 1st read more above for the fascinating photo! What say you about how this will impact the world! Comments?

1970 Muammar Quad a for if proclaimed Premier of Lybia! Why did the West despise him!? What ultimately happened to him & his regime?? What say you??

1998 NASA announces John Glenn 76 will be the oldest Astronaut to fly in Space, what a life Glenn lead! Comments??

BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??

What say you? about these fascinating topics?
Regards,
MD

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:05:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
BTW in previous post, didn't mean to criticize Canada, just bringing up the point of how friendly fire occurred a fair amount of times in WWII, & other wars for that mater! Any posts on this topic??


Which post was that, MD. I don't remember any criticism of Canada and "friendly fire" incidents. Please refresh my memory.

Cheers,

George




Hi George,

Oops, sometimes I check last years topics, which are the same but only discussed differently!? See above posts for what was said, & responded to!?

Sorry, my bad!
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:11:41 PM
Kiska

As we know, the attack on Kiska was undertaken by the US and by Canadian draftees, the Zombies. Canada had been receiving some pressure from the US even before the war to allow US planes to fly over to Alaska, something that Canada was reluctant to allow. Canada was also concerned that the Japanese could attack our Pacific coast and in discussions with the Americans, it was revealed that Canada could not count on the protection of the USN and that it was quite likely that in the event of war, the US would seek and perhaps demand air bases in BC.

And so there were broad national goals for Canada in the provision of troops for the defence of the Aleutians. The first was to improve relations with the US which had expressed concern about Canada's efforts on the west coast. Secondly, the government was desperate to boost the morale of the home troops, the Zombies and to change the national perception of them as shirkers. Thirdly, the government was trying to encourage the draftees to "go active" which would allow for their deployment to Europe. I'm not sure how sending them to fight would encourage that response but there you have it. And fourth, Canada was very concerned that by allowing the construction of the Alaska Highway that its sovereignty was in peril and despatching troops to the NW of North America would establish that we were there and ready to defend.

For some of the same reasons it was considered very important to include some French-Canadians in the Aleutian operations as this group of all of the reluctant volunteers, took the most heat from the rest of the country.

The operation in the Aleutians was called Greenlight and so Canada initially selected the Canadian Fusiliers, Winnipeg Grenadiers, and Rocky Mountain Rangers along with artillery and ancillary units to participate. Subsequent discussion led the high command to determine that it would be wise to include some French-Canadians in the operations so that the whole country was represented.

And so Le Régiment de Hull was added for relief purposes. LRH was the only francophone unit in Pacific command and they had been on coastal duty in BC since 1942. 80% spoke no English at all and a lack of bilingual instructors hampered their training. The were not rated very highly. But the US wasn't sure that they wanted an extra CDN battalion and had to be convinced.

Once accepted, the CDN army had to find suitable French-Canadian officers. The officers of LRH were rated as too old and too soft. The officer charged with bringing LRH up to snuff was told that he could request the transfer of any French-Canadian officer that he wanted. Lt. Col Dollard Ménard was selected and he came in and fired any officers that he did not deem fit to command and he declared that the language of command and instruction for LRH would be French.

Most of this I gleaned from an old article from Canadian Military History.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:14:44 PM
Quote:
Guys,

Speaking of Canadians in the Aluitians, What happened on August 15 1943 in the retaking of Kiska Island!???

How could this happen?
Who's to blame?

MD

To be fair, friendly fire incidents in WWII like this, were to numerous to count!?

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 12:15:00 PM
Quote:
Hi George,

I guess my problem with this happening is that the commanders of both invasion groups had the battle plans of each other! Also this is a modern war generally speaking, so communications had to be quite efficient. And as you say both groups had US uniforms on. So how could they open up on each other? It also would seem air reconisence would have told them the Japanese were gone? I wonder if any officer saw repercusions??

Any info on this?
Regards,
MD


BTW controversial topic, perhaps we could rehash it????
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/15/2023 2:21:04 PM
MD, it wasn't necessarily US troops shooting Canadian troops or Canadians shooting US troops on Kiska. They were often shooting at their own and at sounds or ghosts, not uniforms. They were firing into fog as I understand it. The numbers I have for the Canadians was four dead and four wounded out of a brigade.

EDIT: Not all of the Canadians were wounded or died of gun fire. Japanese booby traps and mines and ammunition accidents caused most of them. I just checked the numbers on canadiansoldiers.com and that site confirmed that one officer was wounded by MG fire (assume friendly fire). One man was killed when he stepped on a Japanese mine and the other three Canadians were killed by booby traps. I assume that similar data exists for US personnel too.

But total allied casualties was 313. The invasion force consisted of 34,426 soldiers, of which 5,300 were Canadian soldiers. I don't know wether the Canadian numbers include Canadians serving with the 1st Special Service Force. But we can see from the numbers that there were many more Americans than Canadians on Operation Cottage. As to who shot whom, I really don't know but the Canadians landed well away from the bulk of the US forces. And they landed on D +1.







But there were other examples of "friendly fire" incidents in Normandy during WWII when it was determined that heavy and medium bombers could make a difference in support of the attempt to breakout. US planes bombed their own soldiers assembled to attack in Operation Cobra in Normandy.

US, RAF and RCAF planes bombed Canadian and Polish troops awaiting the signal to attack in Operation Tractable which led to the taking of Falaise.

In the last two examples, the casualties were not sufficient in number to cause the operation to be scrubbed.

Cheers,

George

Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 6:14:06 AM
1945 : Adolf Hitler takes residence in his infamous Berlin Bunker.

A lot of dramatic screen depictions of that place and its final days !

Has there been any attempt to reopen it and confront its dark story; or is there too much of a livid wound in the German conscience to allow that to happen ?


Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 8:18:21 AM
Quote:
1945 : Adolf Hitler takes residence in his infamous Berlin Bunker.

A lot of dramatic screen depictions of that place and its final days !

Has there been any attempt to reopen it and confront its dark story; or is there too much of a livid wound in the German conscience to allow that to happen ?


Regards, Phil


Phil,

Is the bunker Hitler used in Berlin still in existence?

Gary
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 8:39:39 AM
[Read More]

[Read More]


2 perpetual sites, check for topics, check out 1-16, in history!? Comments anyone?
cheers,
MD

For example in 27 BC, Augustus Caesar in named ruler of Rome, by the Senate,.Anyone on Ancient Rome, & how this lead to the foundation.of it's history?

,1493 Columbus returns from his 1st trip from the New World, was he a friend to the natives?? What say you?

1581 English Parliament passes laws against Catholicism! Why did England hate Catholics??

1919 Prohibition is passed by Congress! How did it go over?? Comments?

1945 Hitler moves into his last ditch bunker in Berlin! What is the most likely story of what happened to him? Did he perish there, or escape!? What say you??

1960 Gordie Howe becomes the leading scorer in NHL history! Scoring his 545th goal in 1963! Comments on what made Howe so good? Has anyone passed him in Scoring? ?

Any other new history?? Anyone?


BTW George 71 died when the US ship Amber Read struck a floating IJN mine! Near Kiska! I wonder if they are listed in the casualty list! ? Thanks for your responses!

Also today is Martin Luther King Day a National Holiday celebration not only his birthday but his life!?
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 10:02:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
1945 : Adolf Hitler takes residence in his infamous Berlin Bunker.

A lot of dramatic screen depictions of that place and its final days !

Has there been any attempt to reopen it and confront its dark story; or is there too much of a livid wound in the German conscience to allow that to happen ?


Regards, Phil


Phil,

Is the bunker Hitler used in Berlin still in existence?

Gary



Gary,

Twenty two years ago I visited Berlin and was told that the Bunker had been covered over by modern buildings and a car park. I suspect that a conscious effort was made to eradicate any trace of its existence, for reasons that are all too understandable given the troubled relationship between German people and their recent past. But I do not know this as a matter of fact : I relied on hearsay and would welcome clarification.

If the place had been concreted over, who knows what lies beneath ?

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 10:36:52 AM
Phil,

Thanks. I really did not know if it still existed.

Gary
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 1:24:04 PM
Gary,

It’s quite something to think about : we’re approaching the ninetieth anniversary of Hitler’s ascension to the role of German Chancellor. He wanted the Thousand Year Reich. Within twelve years, he had pulverised much of the European continent, killed scores of millions, and ended up like a cornered rat in a fetid subterranean labyrinth. It’s grotesque, isn’t it ?

Regards, Phil

----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 2:17:18 PM
Phil,

Your pointing out that it will soon be ninety years since Hitler became German Chancellor has motivated me to want to do some more reading on this time period. I may reread two books by Zara Steiner, The Lights that Failed and The Triumph of the Dark, that cover the period of 1919 to 1939. They are some heavy reading with altogether about two thousand pages of text. My old eyes limit my reading time each day so they will take some time to read.

Do you have any suggestions on some good books for this time period in European history?

Gary
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 4:01:10 PM
A huge question, Gary !

Let me reflect and respond with what I hope will be worthy of recommendation.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4806
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/16/2023 8:51:25 PM
Oh my … Quote:
It’s quite something to think about : we’re approaching the ninetieth anniversary of Hitler’s ascension to the role of German Chancellor. He wanted the Thousand Year Reich. Within twelve years, he had pulverised much of the European continent, killed scores of millions, and ended up like a cornered rat in a fetid subterranean labyrinth. It’s grotesque, isn’t it ?

I believe I’m on your side, Phil. But I choke a bit on this statement, without at least one flag.

Parts of Eastern Europe were pulverized by German troops. But I’m not sure the same claim can be laid against Hitler or the Germans throughout Western Europe. A very few bombed cities aside, the German conquest of the Western Europe was quick, total and effective, leaving a conquored Europe relatively undamaged.

The Allies (and I’m thinkingUK/Commonwealth/US, acting in the west), perhaps for tactical issues, did much more pulverizing of European cities than did the Germans.

Just opening the argument a bit.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 2:10:35 AM
Quote:
Oh my … Quote:
It’s quite something to think about : we’re approaching the ninetieth anniversary of Hitler’s ascension to the role of German Chancellor. He wanted the Thousand Year Reich. Within twelve years, he had pulverised much of the European continent, killed scores of millions, and ended up like a cornered rat in a fetid subterranean labyrinth. It’s grotesque, isn’t it ?

I believe I’m on your side, Phil. But I choke a bit on this statement, without at least one flag.

Parts of Eastern Europe were pulverized by German troops. But I’m not sure the same claim can be laid against Hitler or the Germans throughout Western Europe. A very few bombed cities aside, the German conquest of the Western Europe was quick, total and effective, leaving a conquored Europe relatively undamaged.

The Allies (and I’m thinkingUK/Commonwealth/US, acting in the west), perhaps for tactical issues, did much more pulverizing of European cities than did the Germans.

Just opening the argument a bit.

Cheers
Brian G


Your point acknowledged and accepted, Brian.

You’re right.

Western Europe was more smashed up by Allied firepower than it was by German onslaughts.

If we seek attribution here, let it be traced to Hitler and his actions.

Yes, let’s open the argument .

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 2:15:32 AM
1863 : birth of David Lloyd George.

One of the most important political operators of modern times.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 7:38:26 AM
From Britannnica

Quote:
Great Britain, which escaped the ravages of occupation, suffered heavily from the German aerial blitz of 1940–41 and later from V-bombs and rockets. On the other side, German cities were leveled by Allied bombers, and in the final invasion of Germany from both east and west there was much retaliatory devastation, destruction, and pillage.

The destruction of physical plant was immense and far exceeded that of World War I, when it was largely confined to battle areas. France estimated the total cost at an amount equivalent to three times the total French annual national income. Belgium and the Netherlands suffered damage roughly in similar proportions to their resources. In Great Britain about 30 percent of the homes were destroyed or damaged; in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands about 20 percent. Agriculture in all the occupied countries suffered heavily from the destruction of facilities and farm animals, the lack of machinery and fertilizers, and the drain on manpower. Internal transport systems were completely disrupted by the destruction or confiscation of railcars, locomotives, and barges, and the bombing of bridges and key rail centres. By 1945 the economies of the continental nations of western Europe were in a state of virtually complete paralysis.


Quote:
In eastern Europe the devastation was even worse. Poland reported 30 percent of its buildings destroyed, as well as 60 percent of its schools, scientific institutions, and public administration facilities, 30–35 percent of its agricultural property, and 32 percent of its mines, electrical power, and industries. Yugoslavia reported 20.7 percent of its dwellings destroyed. In the battlegrounds of the western portion of the Soviet Union, the destruction was even more complete. In Germany itself, the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey found that in 49 of the largest cities, 39 percent of the dwelling units were destroyed or seriously damaged. Central business districts had generally been reduced to rubble, leaving only suburban rings standing around a destroyed core.




Early capitulation saved Belgium and Netherlands from greater destruction.

I'm not sure what I am trying to say here but it seems to me that Germany suffered greater damage partly because it chose to prosecute the war to its end. I do understand the moral dilemma associated with the bombing by USAF and BC of German cities.

Cheers,

George
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 8:21:25 AM
oops!
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 8:26:50 AM
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check 1-17 for topics.?
cheers,
MD

Hey guys, check 1-17 out! Comments??

1931 buys a home in Key West, Florida, lives there for 10 years! Hemingway, He spent a great deal of his early days in Michigan! Also Here in West Michigan gangsters used to pick up shipments during prohibition, off Like Michigan from Canada! What would of the US done without our neighbors to the North?

Today in 1773 James Cook becomes the 1st explorer to cross the Antarctic Circle. What an adventurous life he lead!? Comments on all the accomplishments of Cook??


1827 the Duke of Wellington is appointed the Supreme allied commander, what's your take on the Duke? How was he able to defeat the so called genius commander, Napoleon Bonaparte??
What say you??

1912, Explorer Robert Falcon Scott arrive s at the South Pole finding that A unseen had already been there! Check out the sad picture the party seems to already know their fate!? Comments on this tragedy, why would these men risk their lives, & for what? Not sure I get it?

1966 Martin Luther King Jr. was speaking in Chicago! Yesterday in the US was MKL Day, With Black Lives Matter. How far has Civil rights come in this country, & for that matter Canada, & others?? What say you??

Any other topics?
Regards,
MD

BTW discussions on Hitler's Bunker are fascinating, please continue! I thought the Russians got to it 1st, & examined the whole scene??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 9:35:57 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
1945 : Adolf Hitler takes residence in his infamous Berlin Bunker.

A lot of dramatic screen depictions of that place and its final days !

Has there been any attempt to reopen it and confront its dark story; or is there too much of a livid wound in the German conscience to allow that to happen ?


Regards, Phil


Phil,

Is the bunker Hitler used in Berlin still in existence?

Gary



Gary,

Twenty two years ago I visited Berlin and was told that the Bunker had been covered over by modern buildings and a car park. I suspect that a conscious effort was made to eradicate any trace of its existence, for reasons that are all too understandable given the troubled relationship between German people and their recent past. But I do not know this as a matter of fact : I relied on hearsay and would welcome clarification.

If the place had been concreted over, who knows what lies beneath ?

Regards, Phil


Phil and Gary,

As with everything to do with Berlin, it is more complicated as it seems.
The Reichskanzlei buildings were in the district of Berlin-Altstadt (soviet sector) but the Kanzleigarten, where the Bunker was, was in the district of Berlin-Tiergarten (British sector). The Soviets had blown up the entrance in 1947. So the area stayed a waste land between the two sectors. The Bunker had never been intended as a permanent construction and had been built below the ground water level. It slowly flooded over the years. It is now completely under water.

When the Wall was built in 1961, the area became part of the Berlin Wall death strip. It was only after German re-unification that local people decided to turn it into a car park and children´s playground in summer.





It looks like a very ordinary car park but throughout the 90´s it became a centre of international attention as various religious delegates ( Tibetan monks, First Nation Americans, Schamanen from S.America and Australia ) travelled there to ritually "purify" it.

All the best
Trevor

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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 11:53:15 AM
Trevor,

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Very interesting.

Gary
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 4:07:17 PM
Quote:
Phil,

Your pointing out that it will soon be ninety years since Hitler became German Chancellor has motivated me to want to do some more reading on this time period. I may reread two books by Zara Steiner, The Lights that Failed and The Triumph of the Dark, that cover the period of 1919 to 1939. They are some heavy reading with altogether about two thousand pages of text. My old eyes limit my reading time each day so they will take some time to read.

Do you have any suggestions on some good books for this time period in European history?

Gary



Gary,

PEACEMAKERS, by Margaret Macmillan. In my reckoning, a really good starting point, written by a Canadian historian who brings the problem of peace making in 1919 to life ; she's the great granddaughter of the British Prime Minister David Lloyd George !

Blood and Ruins : The Great Imperial War 1931-45, by Richard Overy, a renowned authority on the causes and course of the Second World War. I haven't read this book yet, but I intend to !

If you try both of those, you might get a good jumping off point followed by a compelling denouement.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 4:35:39 PM
Hello Phil and Gary,

Margaret Macmillan's book has been published under different titles. My copy is titled, "Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World". It was released in Canada with that title. An excellent read as well.

I would also recommend another of her books titled, "The War That Ended Peace: The Road to 1914". She paints a wonderful picture of the world order at the end of the 19th century and the turn into the 20th. She describes the political and technological changes and the characters that led to a catastrophic war. She contends that WW1 did not have to happen and how muddling and indifference at times contributed to the conditions from which finally, there was no return. Macmillan is known for her exhaustive research. I find her work to be highly readable.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 4:57:49 PM
Quote:
1931 buys a home in Key West, Florida, lives there for 10 years! Hemingway, He spent a great deal of his early days in Michigan! Also Here in West Michigan gangsters used to pick up shipments during prohibition, off Like Michigan from Canada! What would of the US done without our neighbors to the North?


In 1920, Hemingway came to Toronto and free lanced for the Toronto Star Weekly, which was published by the Toronto Star Newspaper. He stayed until 1923 and at the end he was a staff reporter for that paper and a foreign correspondent. Hemingway was a fan of the Toronto St. Patricks which was the hockey team that became the Toronto Maple Leafs.

However, he was somewhat critical of Torontonians and Canadians in general, feeling that they were somewhat puritanical and uncreative.

In a piece entitled, "I like Canadians" he gave this rather backhanded compliment to the people:

Quote:
“They go home at night. Their cigarettes don’t smell bad. Their hats fit. They really believe they won the war. They don’t believe in Literature. They think Art has been exaggerated. But they are wonderful on skates. A few of them are very rich. But when they are rich they buy more horses than motorcars.”


Hemingway actually intended to enlist in the Canadian Army in 1917. He was working as a cub reporter in Kansas City but admired the exploits of the Canadian Corps. Of course, he had been rejected by the US forces because of poor eyesight. But his Kansas newspaper decided to sponsor a Red Cross ambulance unit and Hemingway was sent to Italy with it.

It seems then that Hemingway was less than inspired by his time in Canada. He hated his editor at the Star and yet that paper gave him the freedom and paid him to travel all over the world.

You may enjoy reading this Hemingway article written for the Toronto Star Weekly on June 5, 1920.

BOOTLEGGING
Canuck Whiskey Pouring into U.S.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George






scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 6:01:38 PM
Gary,

My recommendation would be Ian Kershaw To Hell and Back Europe 1914-1949. . A superb unbiased overview before going into specific aspects.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 8:59:23 PM
Phil,

I read Margaret Macmillan's book as soon as it came. Unfortunately I lost the book so I'm going to try to find a second-hand copy or try to borrow it from somewhere. As I recall it was an excellent book.

I have not read Blood and Ruins : The Great Imperial War 1931-45, by Richard Overy but it sounds good.

Thanks

Gary
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/17/2023 9:00:11 PM
Trevor,

I found a copy of Kershaw's book to borrow on the Internet. I have 14 days to read it. Looks really good.

Thanks

Gary
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2023 2:06:02 AM
To make the cup run over while we’re reflecting on the ninetieth anniversary of Hitler’s arrival as Chancellor, we mark the declaration of the founding of the German Empire this day in 1871. Shall we try and incorporate this event into the theme we’ve been discussing ?

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2023 6:24:05 AM
Quote:
To make the cup run over while we’re reflecting on the ninetieth anniversary of Hitler’s arrival as Chancellor, we mark the declaration of the founding of the German Empire this day in 1871. Shall we try and incorporate this event into the theme we’ve been discussing ?

Regards, Phil


An excellent video to show the events on 18.01.1871. to provide a basis of discussion.

[Read More]

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2023 8:09:12 AM
Thanks, Trevor : a brilliant pitch !

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2023 8:49:12 AM
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[Read More]

2 perpetual sites, check for 1-18 topics.?

1535 Conquistador Francisco Pizarro founds the City of Lima , Peru. Comments on how a small group of Spaniards could conquer a whole Inca Empire!?

1644, Pilgrims in Boston see a UFO! Seriously? Comments? Well they did believe in witches after all!??

1788 the 1st group of convicts, 736 of them arrive in Botany Bay, Australia! Does this explain the rowdiness of Aussies! What say you??

1865, the battle of Ft. Moultrie, begins, vital fort at the entrance to Charleston Harbour, A impressive located fort. Having been there, the history of the fort is impressive! Any questions??

1943 the seige of Leningrad is broken the Germans lose! Form a Soviet perspective, they won WWII! How accurate is that!? Comments on who was the #1 Allied Nation to most influence victory in WWII!? Or a definite team effort!? Comments anyone?

Has winter let up for you?
It has for me of course I am down south!

Regards,
MD

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/18/2023 9:30:13 PM
D
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 2:50:58 AM
Dave,

Allied victory in WW2 was a team effort.

The British Commonwealth , the USA and the Soviet Union were all absolutely vital contributors to the outcome, each in their own way.

The central statistic is that four fifths of all German military deaths were suffered at the hands of the Russians, and this rather influences the reckoning.

As does the incredible fact that the Soviet deaths in battle were ten times those of the British and Americans combined .

If civilian deaths are counted, the disparity was even greater.

We must not forget that the Second World War entailed a huge conflict in Asia and the Pacific, and here, of course, the USA was the pre-eminent power that gained the victory, although we must not forget that the Chinese bore a terrible burden of death and suffering and must have made a huge contribution.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 7:41:45 AM
Quote:
1943 the seige of Leningrad is broken the Germans lose! Form a Soviet perspective, they won WWII! How accurate is that!? Comments on who was the #1 Allied Nation to most influence victory in WWII!? Or a definite team effort!? Comments anyone?


MD, I was taken aback by this question, I must confess. I had always presumed that this victory could only have happened because of a team effort. Why is it necessary to determine which allied nation was indispensable to the cause?

And I do acknowledge the horrendous losses taken by the Soviets both military and civilian.

Cheers,

George
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 8:44:50 AM
"...from the Soviet perspective."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 8:45:26 AM
Hi George, OP, & Phil,

No affront meant, I guess I was just getting at other perspectives, like the Soviets consider that they broke the back of the Nazis at a terrible cost to them, & perhaps from their view they had the most influence in the victory against Hitler!? Of course it was a team effort, & was a war around the entire globe! It's amazing that the Germans, with little help took on so many countries!? Was Hitler mad??

Peace,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 8:54:42 AM
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[Read More]

[Read More]


1-19 in 1915 the 1st air raid by a blimp bombing over England, by the Germans, 4 people killed! Anything else on blimp attacks? I can't see t hem being to devastating!? Comments? Anyone?

Later!
MD

A quote from Mike M. regarding the above event!


"The German Airship (these were large rigid airships not 'blimps') raids during WW1 killed 557 and injured 1,358 people (183 and 516 of them in London), cost of damage £1,527,585. Aeroplane raids killed 857 and injured 2,058 (487/1,444 in London), cost of damage £1,434,526. (statistics from Appendix I of OH 'War in the Air' Volume V)."


----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
GaryNJ
Cumberland NJ USA
Posts: 254
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
1/19/2023 11:39:30 AM
Quote:
Dave,

Allied victory in WW2 was a team effort.

The British Commonwealth , the USA and the Soviet Union were all absolutely vital contributors to the outcome, each in their own way.

The central statistic is that four fifths of all German military deaths were suffered at the hands of the Russians, and this rather influences the reckoning.

As does the incredible fact that the Soviet deaths in battle were ten times those of the British and Americans combined .

If civilian deaths are counted, the disparity was even greater.

We must not forget that the Second World War entailed a huge conflict in Asia and the Pacific, and here, of course, the USA was the pre-eminent power that gained the victory, although we must not forget that the Chinese bore a terrible burden of death and suffering and must have made a huge contribution.

Regards, Phil


Phil,

I could not agree more with this thoughtful answer. It was the contributions of many nations that ultimately defeated Germany. We do need to acknowledge the fact that the Russians faced the majority of the German ground forces and suffered horrendous casualties both military and civilian. It is understandable that the Russians would from their perspective believe they were most responsible for defeating the Germans.

Do you have any statistics on how many German military casualties were suffered against the Russians compared to other areas such as Western Europe and North Africa?

Gary
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