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George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/24/2023 7:43:16 AM
Quote:
1786 Gen Lord Cornwallis appointed Governor General of India!? Go figure, he loses at Yorktown, & then he's rewarded! He must of had connections? What say you??


He was also a very effective military officer and colonial administrator. To define the man solely by his defeat at Yorktown is to use a very narrow lens.

Cornwallis also fought in the Seven Years War, in Europe though. That war and the North American part of it, (French and Indian War) saw the British defeat France and through that feat to remove the French threat to the British colonies in North America.

Cornwallis also opposed the way that the British administered to the 13 colonies and acknowledged the legitimate complaints of the colonists. As a soldier however he was compelled to suppress the rebellion as ordered and overall, I think that he fought well. He pursued the southern strategy with zeal and defeated Gates in South Carolina. (I think).

Cornwallis was present in North America well before the American Revolution. He is known as the founder of Halifax, responsible for building the fort and the force to counter the French present just to the north at Fortress Louisbourg. He established a colonial government and a judiciary.

Now for the negative side of the man. He would pursue his duties with great zeal and was not above tactics that we today would call questionable. Cornwallis' appointment as governor in Nova Scotia came after his work in Scotland as he participated in the suppression of the Jacobite Rebellion in 1845 His men participated in the slaughter of many people. I have read that Cornwallis' troops were close to rebellion and that he was recalled. I do not know why they were so rebellious. Still he received the appointment to Nova Scotia.

In Nova Scotia it is difficult to ignore the fact that Cornwallis' name is everywhere on streets, parks and statues. A township was named after the man.
But he was also known as the man who called for the extirpation of the Mi'kmaq people who had lived and fished and hunted in Nova Scotia for hundreds of years. The site upon which Halifax was built was prime hunting and fishing land for those people. The site of the fort sat upon a major route of travel for the indigenous people.

We have known for a long time that Cornwallis offered a bounty on the heads of the Mi'kmaq people in 1749, not long after his arrival. Now the Mi'kmaq people were not easy to deal with. They raided British installations and had allied themselves with the French.

Cornwallis' decided to eliminate them hence the cash bounty for any Mi'kmaq scalps. Cornwallis had been ordered to keep the peace with the indigenous people but he did not trust them and feared that the French and the Mi'kmaq would destroy his new colony and his forts including Halifax.

We get a hint of his attitude toward the Mi'kmaq people in the following proclamation

Quote:
"That, in order to secure the Province from further attempts of the Indians, some effectual methods should be taken to pursue them to their haunts, and show them that because of such actions, they shall not be secure within the Province.

"That, a Company of Volunteers not exceeding fifty men, be immediately raised in the Settlement to scour the wood all around the Town.

"That, a Company of one hundred men be raised in New England to join with Gorham's during the winter, and go over the whole Province...

"...That, a reward of ten Guineas be granted for every Indian Micmac taken, or killed."


The ensuing conflict was a lot like guerrilla warfare. Cornwallis employed tactics similar to the "Pacification" tactics used in the Scottish Highlands.

So while Cornwallis established a colony he spent a fortune in trying to defeat the Mi'kmaq. Development of the colony proceeded rather slowly and wore out the man. He was being criticized because the colony relied too much on supply from Britain and was not proceeding toward self sufficiency. By 1852 he had had enough and requested his recall to Britain.

Canadians are currently examining our relationship with the indigenous people of the country. Some of what we have read is unpleasant including the scooping of FN kids to be taken away to residential schools where too many died of reasons not yet explained. Over the last decade the FN communities and allies have become much more vocal. They are demanding respect and restitution for treaty violations.

Many Canadians are feeling guilty and so when the call goes out to remove the names of people from public display who had been instrumental in conduct harmful to the FN communities, often those calls are heeded. And so we see in Nova Scotia that Cornwallis' name is being removed from schools and street signs. Statues are defaced and removed.

The same is happening in other parts of Canada with other famous people including our first Prime Minister, Sir John A. Macdonald who was a keen supporter of Indian residential schools. His name is also being removed from school fronts and his statues have been removed in some places. Macdonald was the key man in the process that led to Confederation. Without him, there would be no Canada in my opinion.

There is a shaming process at work here and I am cautious about accepting the narrative that Canadians are colonists, imperialists and "settlers" as some FN still call us. It distresses me that the work to create a great country like Canada is denigrated because we, the settlers, are living on stolen land. There are regrettable events associated with our history and we have to reconcile those facts with the knowledge that something very good was built here though at the expense of the lives and cultures of the indigenous people.

Even Cornwallis deserves a full accounting of his behaviour and performance, the good and the bad.

Cheers,

George




Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/24/2023 8:12:49 AM
Quote:
topics on 2-24 in history.? Moved from previous page for easy viewing & discussion! Comments anyone?

1779 George Rogers Clark defeats the British at Vincennes Indiana, A big win out west for them! Were Indians involved?? Anyone?

1786 Gen Lord Cornwallis appointed Governor General of India!? Go figure, he loses at Yorktown, & then he's rewarded! He must of had connections? What say you?? BTW thanks George for the very informative reply on Lord Cornwallis!

1861 CSA Gen Bedford Forrest raids Tennessee! How good of a Confederate Officer was he? & what of what really happened at Fort Pillow, TN.? Also, What about after the Civil War he becomes for a time, the leader of the KKK? Anyone??

1917, the Zimmerman Note is deciphered! The US is really upset, the Germans trying to get Mexico to attack the US!
Anyone have a site with the exact contents of the note? & how it went down??

1924 Mahatmah Gandhi released from jail by the British, why was he in there in the 1st place? Were the British fair to India?? Comments on the Empire! Anyone??

1945 Egypt & Syria declare war on Germany! Were they just jumping on the bandwagon, now that the Nazis were mostly defeated?? Comments?

Anything else, maybe we missed??

Thanks for your participation!
MD

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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
DT509er
Santa Rosa CA USA
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
2/24/2023 11:56:32 AM
Quote:
1786 Gen Lord Cornwallis appointed Governor General of India!? Go figure, he loses at Yorktown, & then he's rewarded! He must of had connections? What say you?? BTW thanks George for the very informative reply on Lord Cornwallis!

Thanks for your participation!
MD


"In October 1785, Cornwallis wrote dismissively of Prussian military manoeuvres while in Hanover, writing that: ''Their manoeuvres were such as the worst General in England would be hooted at for practising; two lines coming up within six yards of one another, and firing in one another's faces till they had no ammunition left: nothing could be more ridiculous.''

Lord Cornwallis' analysis of Prussian forces proved correct in 1806 when Napoleon fought and defeated the outdated Prussian command & force structure and Prussian tactics at Jena-Auerstadt.

Dan
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944. “If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/24/2023 7:03:01 PM
Please note, in my post on Bomber Harris I erred in suggesting the disastrous raid for Peirse’s comand was on 7/8 December 1941. The correct date for the raid was 7/8 November 1941. Sorry if that caused any confusion for anyone who might have read my post.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 7:09:01 AM

How about tomorrow's 2-26 in history.
Lots to discuss here!?

1616 the Roman Inquisition forces Galileo to abandon his theory that the Earth, & Planets revolve around the Sun! Everyone knows that everything revolves around the Earth, just ask the religious leaders, right!? What say you??

1815 Napoleon Bonaparte begins his reconquest of France! Why was the Army always supportive of him? Comments??

1852 RN troop ship Birkenhead sinks off South Africa killing 458, with A 193 surviving! Wow this had to be a huge ship for this era to be carrying so many!? Any one have the story on this???

1885 the Berlin Conference give the Congo to Belgium and Nigeria to the British! How can they do this? What about the natives who live there!!?? Comments on forced colonialism!?? Anyone??

1914 HMHS Britainnic launched in Belfast, what fate awaits Titanic s sister ship?? Anyone??

1917 Russian Army mutineers against the Tzar Nicholas! To bad today's Russian Army won't mutiny against Putin!! What say you??

1924 trial of Adolf Hitler goes on for treason! To bad he wasn't shot! Comments, how did he weasel out of this predicament!? Anyone??

1935 the Luftwaffe is reformed, despite being outlawed by treaty! How did the Germans manage this!?? & upgrade their navy, & army as well? Doesnt anyone monitor these agreements?? What say you??

1952 WSC announces that the British have the bomb! Did this keep them as A super power!?? What say you??

We know this thread pales in comparison to events in Ukraine, but we must carry on, hopefully in the long run things will work out there??

Regards, & peace,
MD

BTW Did I miss any significant topics from today 2-25 in World History?? What did I overlook, Anyone???
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 9:23:12 AM
Quote:
Please note, in my post on Bomber Harris I erred in suggesting the disastrous raid for Peirse’s comand was on 7/8 December 1941. The correct date for the raid was 7/8 November 1941. Sorry if that caused any confusion for anyone who might have read my post.

Cheers
Brian G



Hey Brian,

It's OK, I wish (& I'm quite certain most everyone on MHO will attest to this) If I had a dime for every missed date I posted on this site!?

I would be rich! ☺

Cheers,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 9:31:50 AM
Dave,

Kind of you to pitch an old post of mine on 21 February to mark the anniversary of the German assault that began the Battle of Verdun in 1916.

Not much to add, except to state that on this day in February- the twenty fifth- the Germans succeeded in capturing Fort Douaumont, the pride and joy of the French defensive network. This was a huge humiliation for France, all the more so because it fell to a small squad of German soldiers with hardly a shot being fired. Just four days into the battle, and the Jewel in the Crown had been lost.

There was rejoicing in Germany, with the Kaiser giving the school children a day’s holiday to celebrate the triumph.

This story provides us with an example of how initial euphoria can turn sour.

As if galvanised by shock, the French began to adapt their tactics and restore an equilibrium to the battle.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 6:07:25 PM
Hi Phil,

Thanks, it does seem the French in the World Wars have gotten a reputation rather being warrented or not, of being an Army that wouldn't stay the course! (It does seem, as you so astutely pointed out,) that they progressed quite well towards the end of WWI. But in the later World War, & maybe unfairly so, they were criticized when they seemingly quickly caved into the Germans in WWII??

What say you about the French Army's performances?

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 7:54:50 PM
Just to add something to your list, MD, on this day in 1570 Pope Pius V officially deemed Elizabeth I of England a bastard (not a legitimate child, since under Catholic law her mother was not married to her father). In addition, she was excommunicated, and her subjects were declared free from obedience to her laws. I know this means little to most members, but since I tend to fuss about the English monarchy through the Plantagenet, Tudor and Stuart realms, I should at least mention it.

As to: Quote:
1924 trial of Adolf Hitler goes on for treason! To bad he wasn't shot! Comments, how did he weasel out of this predicament!? Anyone??

Hitler didn’t have to do much weaselling. IIUC – please, anyone, correct me on this! – he was brought before a sympathetic Bavarian court which was supportive of his pan-Germanic values. The court proceedings provided Hitler with a platform to present his views, just as his sentence gave him time to commit them to paper. Keep in mind that at the time his anti-semitic arguments were not widely known or even fully defined; it was during his time in prison that he wrote Mein Kampf, where his hatred of Jews was fleshed out.
Quote:
1935 the Luftwaffe is reformed, despite being outlawed by treaty! How did the Germans manage this!?? & upgrade their navy, & army as well? Doesnt anyone monitor these agreements?? What say you?
The NASDP gained control of the German government on 30 Jan 1933 when Hitler was appointed Chancellor. By 12 November 1933, in a referendum, 95.1% of voting Germans agreed with a government decision to withdraw from the League of Nations. This left the League of Nations with the option of challenging German decisions, but not with requirements that Germany obey League rules or covenants.

Under the Treaty of Versailles, Germany was denied an army in excess of that needed to maintain national discipline and control. In November 1932 the Nazi SA outnumbered the German army by a ratio of something like 10:1. The German navy was strongly linked to the rather tedious agreements among naval nations of the world defined by percentages and weights and lengths. A German air force was denied under Versailles, but a civilian air presence was allowed. Germany – not just Nazi Germany – took full advantage of this option, though of course under Nazi governance the use of the civilian carrier Lufthansa became more military, just as certain a/c (e.g., Ju-52/3) were clearly (in hindsight) designed for both civilian and military use.

I think a deeper exploration on MHO of the issue of how Germany acted in the face of certain treaties would take a huge space to little real purpose. Japan and Italy – both on the winning side of the Versailles Treaty – had either rejected or were about to reject League of Nations regulations. More than that, even before Hitler came to power there were indications that many elements of Versailles and some mandates of the League had lost any power of enforcement.

Lots to think about!

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
2/25/2023 8:25:29 PM
Did the English "priest holes" date from Elizabeth I reign.?
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6498
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 5:39:02 AM
Quote:
Hi Phil,

Thanks, it does seem the French in the World Wars have gotten a reputation rather being warrented or not, of being an Army that wouldn't stay the course! (It does seem, as you so astutely pointed out,) that they progressed quite well towards the end of WWI. But in the later World War, & maybe unfairly so, they were criticized when they seemingly quickly caved into the Germans in WWII??

What say you about the French Army's performances?

Regards,
MD


Dave,

Despite their catastrophic defeat in 1940 - and that did indeed reveal some dismal flaws- some of the finest feats of arms in WW2 were accomplished by French soldiers, along with their North African contingents.
At Bir Hachiem in North Africa they outfought crack German troops, and in the terrible fighting in the Monte Casino battles in Italy it was the the superb performance of General Juin’s French Morrocan mountain troops that turned the German lines and made a breakthrough possible.

To call the French “ cheese eating surrender monkeys “ is an ignorant and arrogant thing to do.

Editing: perhaps we could expand the points in this post to cite other “ zero to hero “ examples of the conduct of soldiers through the ages.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 8:20:17 AM
Quote:
Did the English "priest holes" date from Elizabeth I reign.?


Hi OP,

I believe your close on that, priest holes were an amazing bit of history from those times!?

Cheers,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 8:23:18 AM
Today 2-26 in World history.
Lots to discuss here!?

1616 the Roman Inquisition forces Galileo to abandon his theory that the Earth, & Planets revolve around the Sun! Everyone knows that everything revolves around the Earth, just ask the religious leaders, right!? What say you??

1815 Napoleon Bonaparte begins his reconquest of France! Why was the Army always supportive of him? Comments?? The French were the Worlds most formidable army back then! What say you??

1852 RN troop ship Birkenhead sinks off South Africa killing 458, with A 193 surviving! Wow this had to be a huge ship for this era to be carrying so many!? Any one have the story on this???

1885 the Berlin Conference give the Congo to Belgium and Nigeria to the British! How can they do this? What about the natives who live there!!?? Comments on forced colonialism!?? Anyone??

1914 HMHS Britainnic launched in Belfast, what fate awaits Titanic s sister ship?? Anyone??

1917 Russian Army mutineers against the Tzar Nicholas! To bad today's Russian Army won't mutiny against Putin!! What say you??

1924 trial of Adolf Hitler goes on for treason! To bad he wasn't shot! Comments, how did he weasel out of this predicament!? Anyone??

1935 the Luftwaffe is reformed, despite being outlawed by treaty! How did the Germans manage this!?? & upgrade their navy, & army as well? Doesnt anyone monitor these agreements?? What say you??

1952 WSC announces that the British have the bomb! Did this keep them as A super power!?? What say you??

We know this thread pales in comparison to events in Ukraine, but we must carry on, hopefully in the long run things will work out there??

Regards, & peace,
MD

BTW Did I miss any significant topics?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 2:42:09 PM
Quote:
1952 WSC announces that the British have the bomb! Did this keep them as A super power!?? What say you??


How shall we define what a super power is today? Russia is prosecuting a war with what seems to be a large but poorly performing army. And yet there is hesitancy among NATO nations to challenge them because of implied threats that nuclear arms could be employed at Putin's whim. So I am not sure of what a super power is. Russia seems to be a failed state with the nuclear power to destroy many other countries.

In that sense I suppose that Great Britain was still a super power in 1952 and still is. But Britain's economy was in tatters in 1952, the price that it paid for its efforts to defeat the scourge of Europe, Nazi Germany and Japan, for that matter. Britain's great empire was no longer the extensive representation of British influence and power. A high price to pay indeed.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 5:45:33 PM
OP, you ask: Quote:
Did the English "priest holes" date from Elizabeth I reign.?

I think I’d be more comfortable saying from Tudor times rather than Elizabethan times, though priest-holes of some sort probably existed from at least the time of the Peasants’ Revolt of 1382. I would think it was only with the death of Henry VIII (1547) that they began to proliferate, with Edward VI, under a regent council controlled by the Dudleys, strong protestants, codifying much of the Church of England’s rites and credo. His reign was short (to 1553), as was Mary’s after him (to 1558), but in her reign Mary used drastic measures to return England to Catholicism, but died without issue before achieving her goal. Elizabeth, coming to the crown in 1558, would once again choose to lead a protestant nation, for a host of reasons, but would face numerous threats from catholics during her reign. This lead to tightening restrictions of Catholic worship, which led to the priest-hole proliferation.

The protestant-catholic tensions would continue to some degree through the Stuart dynasty as well, both before and after the Civil War and Interregnum, though the violence lessened over time. James I would face the Gunpowder Plot in 1605, and I would assume priest-holes gained fashion again after that ugliness.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 6:33:17 PM
George and MD, did we even use the term “super power” in 1952? Seems to me we talked about the Big Three Allied powers, and we talked about nations with “atomic arms”, but that “super power” was a term that came as we got closer to the Berlin Wall.

I agree, George, that there is a sometimes a vast distinction between holding nuclear weapons and being any kind of super power. In 1952, Britain was in its 7th year of post-war austerity, with people facing rationing as severe in certain areas as any faced during the war. India and Pakistan were gone; the British proved largely impotent in the Malay states and Singapore; many African colonies were showing signs of rebellion (the Kenya Mau Mau uprising began in 1952, IIRC). That is not to say it had totally lost its influence (for good or ill) across a wide swath of the globe, but that it had lost its ability to dictate its influence.

Holding atomic weapons does not necessarily provide the ability to dictate authority. There is good indication that North Korea has nuclear capability, and perhaps even delivery systems, but that does not make it a super-power. To some, it remains a “rogue” state; to some a member of the nonsensical “axis of evil”; to some simply a troublesome, uncontrolled nation.

I don’t know that I would call Russia a “failed state”, though strangely Mr Putin seems to be suggesting the west is attempting to impinge on it to make it fail. It has less power than did the late USSR at the height of its power, perhaps, but whether the Warsaw Pact nations or the western territories which had affiliation with the USSR (I’m thinking Belarus and Ukraine in particular) were ever part of a larger Russian cultural diaspora is a different matter: that argument increasingly smacks of the distinctions Hitler drew between Germany and the germanic diaspora he believed existed. Whether Russia has the influence and goodwill quotient to recreate the Soviet fold is, I think, in Mr Putin’s mind. I’m not stupid (I don’t think), and I recognize that Russia’s location and size will assure her of a place in the world. What appears to have happened so far, of course, is that Russia will have to find a means other than military power to maintain it’s status in the world. Those nine nuclear ice-breakers keeping the Northeast Passage open talk more loudly than hosts of Su-27s!

Lots more to say on this. How about China’s New Silk Road? How about China’s growing influence in Africa and the Middle East? How about whether the US has been able to regain the leadership of the West?

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 8:08:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower#:~:text=The%20term%20was%20first%20used,Union%20after%20World%20War%20II.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/26/2023 9:20:33 PM
[Read More]
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/27/2023 7:52:16 AM
Quote:
OP, you ask: Quote:
Did the English "priest holes" date from Elizabeth I reign.?

I think I’d be more comfortable saying from Tudor times rather than Elizabethan times, though priest-holes of some sort probably existed from at least the time of the Peasants’ Revolt of 1382. I would think it was only with the death of Henry VIII (1547) that they began to proliferate, with Edward VI, under a regent council controlled by the Dudleys, strong protestants, codifying much of the Church of England’s rites and credo. His reign was short (to 1553), as was Mary’s after him (to 1558), but in her reign Mary used drastic measures to return England to Catholicism, but died without issue before achieving her goal. Elizabeth, coming to the crown in 1558, would once again choose to lead a protestant nation, for a host of reasons, but would face numerous threats from catholics during her reign. This lead to tightening restrictions of Catholic worship, which led to the priest-hole proliferation.

The protestant-catholic tensions would continue to some degree through the Stuart dynasty as well, both before and after the Civil War and Interregnum, though the violence lessened over time. James I would face the Gunpowder Plot in 1605, and I would assume priest-holes gained fashion again after that ugliness.

Cheers
Brian G



Hi Brian,

Priest Holes, fascinating topic, I take it they were large enough to hide even the most robust priest? Any stories on how long a priest stayed in one? & How he survived?? Which gets us to Priest Hunters, what about these guys? Gee the English protestants aristocracy sure feared Catholic clergy!

Any good websites on these topics??
Cheers,
MD

Also any new history from MHO'ers for 2-27 in world history? Anyone?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
2/27/2023 8:38:53 AM
Usually they were hidden behind a tapestry or false panel. They were usually created to provide shelter so they'd be wide enough for any of the fat friars.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/27/2023 10:55:46 PM
OP, you’re dead right. Sometimes they could be much more elaborate, with tunnels for escape and such, but I expect typically they were nooks less than easily spotted but also less than comfortable as a bolt hole.

MD, you say: Quote:
… Gee the English protestants aristocracy sure feared Catholic clergy!
I’m not sure that is the case. They feared the power of the church behind the clergy, and they feared the power the clergy had over the souls of good English men and women. Most of us are now, I believe, beyond the power of the threat of excommunication; most of us no longer are driven by the concept of being divorced from God’s grace. But in a world where even the noblest of the land could be found involved in treason, Catholic church promises of the soul’s salvation, available only through the clergy, was an ongoing drawing card.

Cheers,
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 7:19:55 AM
A few topics, for this last day of February!?

1646 Roger Scott tried in Massachusetts for sleeping in church! I hope they threw the book at him!? Comments?

1838 Roger Nelson proclaims Quebec's independence! How long did that last?? Comments?

1849 gold discovered in California! Hence the 49ers! What gold rush was the most lucrative?? What say you??

1859, Arkansas makes free blacks choose slavery or deportation!? Some choice? Comments on the plights of Blacks in the South at this time!? Anyone??

1942 the Japanese invade Java! Where were the Allies?? Comments??

1991 Gulf War in Iraq ends! Can anyone give a synopsis of it??

Any new topics? Anyone??

Damn Putin!!!
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 7:27:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
1952 WSC announces that the British have the bomb! Did this keep them as A super power!?? What say you??


How shall we define what a super power is today? Russia is prosecuting a war with what seems to be a large but poorly performing army. And yet there is hesitancy among NATO nations to challenge them because of implied threats that nuclear arms could be employed at Putin's whim. So I am not sure of what a super power is. Russia seems to be a failed state with the nuclear power to destroy many other countries.

In that sense I suppose that Great Britain was still a super power in 1952 and still is. But Britain's economy was in tatters in 1952, the price that it paid for its efforts to defeat the scourge of Europe, Nazi Germany and Japan, for that matter. Britain's great empire was no longer the extensive representation of British influence and power. A high price to pay indeed.

Cheers,

George





Hi George,

Scary that now Putin is threatening NATO with using the bomb! The man seems insane enough to use it? Would you say today's threat is worse than it was during the Cuban Missile Crisis?? Anyone?

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 9:23:10 AM
Quote:
1838 Roger Nelson proclaims Quebec's independence! How long did that last?? Comments?


I am pretty sure that his name is Robert Nelson.

The years 1837-1838 were rather tumultuous years politically in Upper and Lower Canada (now Ontario and Québec). There was a form of representative government in both of these colonies but the true power rested with the unelected executive councils and the governors. At any time these councils could rescind legislation from the elected Parliaments and could suspend constitutions.

Reformers in both colonies sought greater political freedom. In 1837 in Upper Canada, a rebellion led by William Lyon Mackenzie had failed. Mackenzie had fled to an island just above Niagara Falls and proclaimed himself as President of the Republic of Upper Canada. He was supported by many Americans who supplied him with arms and men, American supporters. After his defeat, he fled to the US.

In Lower Canada reformers, both English and French, began a rebellion which was put down by Loyalist militia and British troops also in 1837. Robert Nelson was a supporter of the Patriotes Party but he did not participate in the rebellion. He was arrested but released. His brother had however participated in the rebellion and he remained in jail.

Nelson and other leaders of the Patriotes fled to the US and began to organize a secret society called Les Frères Chasseurs (brother hunters). These cells were scattered all over Lower Canada and in the United States where they were called Hunter's Lodges. These cells required members to swear to an oath of fealty to the society and to an oath of silence. They were not permitted to write anything down and had secret signs and symbols that allowed them to share information. Les Frères Chasseurs were primarily comprised of Lower Canadians while the Hunter's Lodges became more and more influenced by Americans who supported the defeat of the British in BNA. The rules of conduct were quite similar to those of the Masons.

Note that Hunter's Lodges were scattered all over the eastern and northern US with one cell as far south as Kentucky, I believe. So the rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada had great support in the US, in violation of US Neutrality Laws.

Robert Nelson was born in Lower Canada and received medical training at Harvard. He was a doctor but had been elected to the LC legislature where he spoke of political reform. As mentioned he fled to Vermont after the 1837 failed rebellion. Of the Patriotes, Nelson was the greatest proponent of an invasion of Lower Canada. But moderates like Louis Joseph Papineau, the leader, advised against that unless support from the US government could be guaranteed.

The more extreme of the rebels carried the day and Dr. Robert Nelson was appointed as the general in charge of the army that was to be built. He was also to be the President of the new Republic of Lower Canada.

When he fled to Vermont, he managed to cobble together an army of about 300 men even before he had set up the Frères Chasseurs society. On Feb. 28, 1838, Dr. Nelson crossed the border with pamphlets that were a Declaration of Independence from the British crown. It was signed by Nelson indicating that he was the President of this new Republic.

Quote:
Whereas the solemn compact made with the people of Lower Canada and registered in the book of statutes of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the 31st chapter of the Acts passed in the 31st year of the reign of George III, has been continually violated by the British Government and our rights usurped; and whereas our humble petitions, addresses, protests, and complaints against this prejudicial and unconstitutional conduct have been in vain; and whereas the British government has disposed of our revenue without the constitutional consent of our local legislature, that it has pillaged our treasury, that it has arrested and imprisoned a great number of our fellow citizens, that it has spread throughout the country a mercenary army whose presence is accompanied by consternation and alarm, whose path has been reddened by the blood of our people, that has reduced our villages to ashes, profaned the temples, and spread terror and desolation throughout the land; and whereas we can no longer put up with the repeated violations of our most cherished rights or patiently bear the multiple outrages and cruelties of the government of Lower Canada; We, in the name of the people of Lower Canada, recognising the decrees of Divine Providence that permit us to overthrow a government that has violated the object and the intention of its creation, and to choose the form of government that will re-establish the reign of justice, assure domestic tranquillity, assure the common defense, increase general well-being, and guarantee for ourselves and our posterity the advantages of civil and religious freedom;

Solemnly declare:

1. That from this day forward the people of Lower Canada are absolved of all allegiance to Great Britain, and that all political ties between that power and Lower Canada have ceased as of this day;

2. That Lower Canada shall take the form of a republican government and, as such, declare itself a Republic;

3. That under the free Government of Lower Canada all citizens will have the same rights; the savages will cease being subjected to any form of civil disqualifications and will enjoy the same rights as the other citizens of the State of Lower Canada;

4. That all ties between Church and State are declared abolished, and every person has the right to freely exercise the religion and the beliefs dictated to him by his conscience;

5. That feudal and Seigneurial tenure are abolished in fact, as if they never existed in this country;

6. That any person who bears or will bear arms, or will furnish the means of assistance to the Canadian People in its struggle for emancipation, is relieved of all debts or obligations, real or supposed, towards Seigneurs, and for arriérages[11] in virtue of Seigneurial laws that formerly existed.

7. That the douaire coutoumier[12] is, in future, entirely abolished and prohibited;

8. That imprisonment for debt will no longer exist, except in cases of obvious fraud, which will be specified in an act of the Legislature of Lower Canada to that effect;

9. That the death penalty will be pronounced in cases of murder alone, and no other;

10. That all mortgages on lands must be special and, in order to be valid, must be registered in Offices created to that effect by an act of the legislature of Lower Canada;

11. That there will be full and entire freedom of the press in all public affairs and matters;

12. That trial by jury is guaranteed to the People of the State in criminal trials to its most liberal extent, and in civil affairs to the sum of an amount to be determined by the legislature of the State of Lower Canada;

13. That as a necessity and obligation of the Government towards the people, public and general education will be put in operation and encouraged in a special manner, as soon as circumstances permit;

14. That in order to ensure the franchise and electoral freedom, all elections will be held in the form of a ballot;

15. That as soon as circumstances permit, the People will choose its Delegates following the current division of the country in cities, towns and counties, which will constitute a Convention or Legislative body, in order to found and establish a constitution, according to the needs of the country and in conformity with the conditions of this Declaration, subject to modification according to the will of the people;

16. That any male person over the age of 21 will have the right to vote as above mentioned, for the election of the above-named delegates;

17. That those lands called Crown lands, as well as those called Reservations of the Clergy and those nominally in the possession of a certain company of speculators in England, called the ‘Company of the Lands of British North America’ shall become by law the property of the State of Lower Canada, except for those portions of land that are in the possession of farmers who hold them in good faith, for which we guarantee the title in virtue of a law which will be passed in order to legalize the possession of such lots of land situated in the Townships which are now under cultivation;

18. That French and English will be used in all public matters.

And for the support of this declaration, and the success of the Patriote cause that we support, we, confident of the protection of the All-Powerful and of the justice of our line of conduct, engage by these present, mutually and solemnly the ones towards the others, our lives, our fortunes, and our most sacred honor.

By order of the Provisional Government

Robert Nelson

President


Dr. Nelson was forced to retreat back to the US by the Loyalist militia in Lower Canada. It was then that Nelson decided to create the secret society, Les Frères Chasseurs which expanded to include the Hunter's Lodges in the US. Nelson hoped to prepare an invasion of Upper and Lower Canada. They hoped to encourage a war between the US and GB that would result in the elimination of Britain from Upper and Lower Canada.

The British had sent Lord Durham to examine the state of affairs in the British colonies and he concluded that Lower Canada had to be made more "British". That added fuel to the fire and brought more people to join and support the secret societies.

Because of the vows of secrecy associated with Les Fréres Chasseurs and the Hunter's Lodges it is difficult to know for sure just how many people were involved. Most historians have settled upon 40,000 in both Lower Canada and the US. Whatever the number it was enough to jostle the US government into action. Not wanting war with Britain, the US sent troops to the border to keep an eye on the secret societies.

Meanwhile Dr. Nelson hoped to invade once again in November of 1838. Perhaps it was independence of the cells of the society or the fact that communication between the cells and the leadership was poor that contributed to failure. And they were short on arms. A whole company of rebels was arrested at the Mohawk reservation near Montréal where they had gone to steal rifles and ammunition from the Mohawk people.

When Nelson announced that it was time to invade on Nov. 3 and 4, it was a failure. Many cells that were supposed to rise up and disarm the Loyalist militias failed to do so. But Nelson did cross with a fairly large force and set up camp at Napierville in Lower Canada. They were short on weapons and ensuing action seemed to be disjointed. The rebels were defeated at at Lacolle (7 November), Odelltown (9 November), and Beauharnois (10 November). These towns are just across the border from the US.

Nelson's "army" dispersed and when the British arrived at Napierville, it was deserted. There was an associated invasion of Upper Canada at the same time and it was a failure too. Hunter Lodges cells had crossed at Prescott and Windsor but US troops were after them on their side of the border and the British intercepted those that did cross. The British tried and convicted 11 men of treason who had invaded Lower Canada and executed them. Only two of the rebels in Upper Canada were executed.

Nelson wasn't finished even though the British arrested and executed ringleaders in both colonies. Many more were sent on convict transports to New South Wales in Australia. But he would never again organize an invasion. He would continue to practice medicine in the US where he died. He was a published author in medical journals too. However, he was buried in Lower Canada.

As for Britain and the US, neither wanted war and they negotiated the Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842 which firmed up the borders between eastern US states and BNA. And so the secret societies faded away.



Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 10:25:39 AM
Hi George

Your right the US is always meddling in British & then Canadian affairs!

Even to this day!?

Peace,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 12:54:15 PM
Quote:
Hi George

Your right the US is always meddling in British & then Canadian affairs!

Even to this day!?

Peace,
MD


Maybe, sometimes. But in this case the US was trying to stop its overzealous citizens, mostly in the north, from interfering in domestic affairs in BNA and from joining with Canadian malcontents who wished to foment revolution. 1837 was only 19 years from the end of the War of 1812 and bad feelings along the border still prevailed.

There were Americans who remembered that war and would have supported annexation of the British provinces. And there were Canadians with memories of invasion. So there was still a great deal of tension at the border.

Despite the fact that the secret societies began in Lower Canada as Les Frères Chasseurs, the number of Americans involved in the movement in Hunter's Lodges probably involved many more people who wished to see Britain driven out of North America.

MD you may be interested in this article that describes the beginnings of the Hunter's Lodges in Michigan. The cells were located in Fort Gratiot, Mount Clemons, Detroit and Gibraltar, all in Michigan. I think that your history books call these incursions into Canada, the Patriot Wars 1837-38. The concept of Hunter's Lodges was established in Cleveland in 1838. The goal of these thousands of people was to assist the Canadians to establish a Republic. This was serious business and doesn't receive as much attention as it should.

[Read More]



Earlier there was a short discussion on what it was that made a super power. I think that it was OP who provided a wiki definition and it said that a super power was one in which other nations were compelled to contact, defer or discuss with, whenever undertaking an initiative in foreign policy. The US and Canada are very much in that position as close neighbours and in a relationship with a great power imbalance. It's not always a case of backing down on certain issues but one in which the other must be kept informed. Most of the time, that works both ways but not always much to the annoyance of the weaker partner.

example: during WWII, Canada considered invading the French islands of St. Pierre et Miquelon, just off the coast of Newfoundland. Canada suspected that Vichy operatives were communicating with Germany with radios installed on the island. The US disapproved because it had long opposed the interference of any country with any other country in the hemisphere. Canada chose not to invade even though the US was not a belligerent in 1941. Instead De Gaulle sent Free French ships to the island. Of course, he didn't tell anyone that he was going to do it but that's another story.

My point is that even in wartime, Canada felt compelled to keep the non-belligerent US in the loop.

Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4805
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
2/28/2023 9:01:24 PM
MD, you write: Quote:
Scary that now Putin is threatening NATO with using the bomb! The man seems insane enough to use it? Would you say today's threat is worse than it was during the Cuban Missile Crisis?? Anyone?
He may be that insane, I guess, I’m not sure he could actually trigger such a catastrophe should he decide to introduce the nuclear option. There may be all kinds of systems in place to deny him codes or nullify his orders, which would make sense. Didn’t a senior US military officer also comment that there were procedures in place to keep Mr Trump from generating a similar catastrophe? Not necessarily meant as a comment about Mr Trump, the point is that it’s possible that the nuclear threat remains so huge that most nuclear nations would have control mechanisms to lessen the danger of rage-induced nuclear exchange.

I believe the world was at greater risk during the Cuban Missile Crisis than we are now, despite the recent shift of the Doomsday Clock. For one thing, Khrushchev’s Russian military was, under his direction, nuke-heavy. Placing them within 90 miles of the US was a bold move, and was a threat which – once discovered – had to be resolved. JFK was, I believe, masterful in his handling of his first major Cold War crisis, but it was Mr Khrushchev who backed down. IMHO, we are nowhere near reaching that confrontational level over Ukraine.

IIRC, Nikita Khrushchev’s “blink” over Cuba was the beginning of the decline of his strength and influence. And I believe that in Ukraine we are seeing the seeds of Mr Putin’s decline. I don’t think he is powerful enough or popular enough to survive the loss of face that a withdrawal from Ukraine might mean. I sense that by attacking Ukraine, Mr Putin has broken a trust between the Russian people and their love of Rodina. Russia is increasingly not buying into Mr Putin’s arguments and justifications for the invasion.

So why is he talking nukes? Because they are still a large part of the threat of “The Russian Bear”. To threaten is not to use, and there are no indications that use of nukes at this moment would be decisive. Nobody goes nuclear on spec!

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/1/2023 7:40:28 AM
Topics, for this last day of February!? Oops if missed you this, please comment, because now it's March 1, btw when is the so called Ide's of March? What's that all about? Anyone??

1646 Roger Scott tried in Massachusetts for sleeping in church! I hope they threw the book at him!? Comments?

1838 Robert Nelson proclaims Quebec's independence! How long did that last?? Comments?
Thanks George, on your reply on Mr. Nelson!!

1849 gold discovered in California! Hence the 49ers! What gold rush was the most lucrative?? What say you??

1859, Arkansas makes free blacks choose slavery or deportation!? Some choice? Comments on the plights of Blacks in the South at this time!? Anyone??

1942 the Japanese invade Java! Where were the Allies?? Comments??

1991 Gulf War in Iraq ends! Can anyone give a synopsis of it??

Any new topics? Anyone??

Damn Putin!!!
Regards,
MD

BTW Brian, Hope you right about Russia & the bomb! Anyone else with a take on this??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/1/2023 8:47:13 AM


1646 NEW TOPICS for March 1st! New Posts! Anyone!??

1633 Champlain reclaims commander of New France! Was he a good one? Anyone?

1692 Salem Witch Trials in full swing!? They actually believed in witches, & killed them! What say you??

1945 the US annexes Texas! How did this come about? Anyone??

1872 Yellowstone becomes the 1st US National Park! What is Canada's1st & best National Park?? Or your nations best National Park!?? COMMENTS? Anyone?

1913 David Beatty becomes Admiral of the RN's Battle group! What's your take on Beatty!?? Anyone? Didn't he have competition from another great RN naval commander??

1941-42 Japan is virtually unbeatable in the Pacific! Why? What factors played into this?? Anyone??

Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/1/2023 9:17:07 AM
During WWII, Canada considered invading the French islands of St. Pierre et Miquelon, just off the coast of Newfoundland. Canada suspected that Vichy operatives were communicating with Germany with radios installed on the island. The US disapproved because it had long opposed the interference of any country with any other country in the hemisphere. Canada chose not to invade even though the US was not a belligerent in 1941. Instead De Gaulle sent Free French ships to the island. Of course, he didn't tell anyone that he was going to do it but that's another story.

My point is that even in wartime, Canada felt compelled to keep the non-belligerent US in the loop.

Cheers,

George


Hi George,

WWII French invasion aside,( who wanted the Vichy Government there, anyway??)

Today do These 2 French Islands cramp Canada's style!? What about fishing & water territorial rights!? Do they keep a military presence? Who would win in a conflict? France or Canada? I liken this to how the French took over Polynesia!? What say you??

MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/1/2023 2:23:28 PM
Quote:
Today do These 2 French Islands cramp Canada's style!? What about fishing & water territorial rights!? Do they keep a military presence? Who would win in a conflict? France or Canada? I liken this to how the French took over Polynesia!? What say you??


The two islands sit just off the SE coast of Newfoundland. Fishermen from Europe have been coming to these waters since the early 1500's for the cod fish that could be found in abundance on the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. When Jacques Cartier made one of his voyages in 1536 he pulled into St. Pierre harbour and there were already French and Basques fishing boats there.

They would use sheltered bays on Newfoundland and on St. Pierre and Miquelon to dry fish. That is why many treaties written after European conflicts also included clauses about fishing rights in North America. Permanent settlements didn't occur until the late 1600's and so there were French settlers on these islands but also on the south coast of Newfoundland.

The Treaty of Paris of 1783 that ended the American Revolution also saw the Americans negotiate fishing rights off Newfoundland's shores and the right to dry fish on shore. In those days, fishing rights were an important item to negotiate.

Possession of St. Pierre and Miquelon switched from France to Britain and back again a few times. In 1713 the Treaty of Utrecht ceded the islands to Britain.

The Treaty of Paris of 1763 which concluded the Seven Years War including the French and Indian Wars, saw the French losing nearly all of New France but the British agreed to allow the French to keep St. Pierre and Miquelon so that French fishermen would have a place to land for rest and to dry fish.

In 1783 the British were pretty ticked off at France for lending support to the rebels in the American Revolution so they attacked and drove the French settlers from the islands and burned down all buildings and possessions. The French attacked and took them back in 1796 but did not resettle until 1816. The 1763 treaty had given France ownership and they have had it ever since.

There have been conflicts over fishing, oil and mineral rights. France was making territorial claims in the 1980's that Canada found ridiculous. It was problematic because both countries were granting exploration permits to oil companies on the sea bed close to St. Pierre and Miquelon. Prior to all of this Canada had declared a 200 n. mile Exclusive Fishing Zone (EFZ). France had declared a 200n. mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) extending from the two islands. Since Newfoundland was in the way to the north, the two zones clearly overlapped to the south of St. Pierre and Miquelon.

The Grand Banks of Newfoundland are no longer a rich cod fishery. Overfishing by Canadians and especially by foreign mega-boats depleted the stocks. When Canada tried to impose quotas, France kept sending its Metropolitan Fishing Fleet to take well more than the quota assigned. Their argument of course was that Canada's quotas didn't apply in their EEZ. After 25 years of fighting, the issue was sent to an international board of arbitration and in 1992 the board assigned France an EEZ of 24 miles, not 200. They also received a 10.5 mile wide and 200 mile long fishing zone extending south from the two islands. If France wanted to fish outside of its zone, they would be compelled to negotiate with Canada for those rights. The deal has greatly reduced access to the fishing grounds by the French fishermen.

This is their fishing zone:



There has been tension at times between Newfoundland and French fishermen but nothing that I am aware of lately.

The US tried to buy the two islands in 1903 which was well before Newfoundland joined Canada (1949). Canada asked Britain to purchase the islands when it got word of the US proposal. Some of the French islanders thought that annexation to the US would be a good deal as the taxes on their fish would disappear when selling in the US. The French held a referendum and the islanders rejected annexation and indicated that they wanted to remain French, and so they are to this day. However, every so often politicians from St. Pierre and Miquelon suggest that they should request to join Canada but preferably as part of the Province of Québec. That doesn't make much sense geographically but culturally it does.

France supports St. Pierre and Miquelon financially but about 70% of supplies are imported from Canada. Kids can attend high school on the islands but post secondary education requires France to provide scholarships for study in Canada or abroad. The people receive basic health care on the islands as part of a universal health care plan.

France and Canada negotiated a deal so that residents of the islands in need of more complex health care could be taken to hospitals in St. John's, Newfoundland. But that deal ended in 2015. Put off by rising costs, France began to seek new health care deals. It was my understanding that the French citizens of the two islands were charged at a rate far less than would be normally charged to foreign nationals.

Quote:
In 2014, St-Pierre-Miquelon's government spent $3.3 million on medical costs of 810 residents. That's up in price from the $2.5 million spent in 2010 for treating 1,100 people.
source: CBC

Representatives from the islands argue that when they arrive in St. John's for health care the Newfoundland economy benefits from hotel stays, meals purchased at restaurants and goods purchased in shops. Newfoundland doesn't dispute that.

I have not visited there but have been told that it is of course, very French. With the decline in the fisheries, the local government has been promoting tourism. Only 20 km off the coast of Newfoundland, quite a few Newfoundlanders do make the trip to the islands as do others who are visiting Newfoundland. People go for the French cuisine, wines and the shops. You can make it a day trip but you will spend a total of 3 hours on the ferry boat, there and back. It doesn't leave much time to explore.

But it is not like Newfoundland or Canada. This is a bit of Europe on the North American continent. One example is that the shops close from 12 PM until 2 PM. Restaurants serve dinner much later than North Americans would expect. They accept Euros but will also accept Canadian dollars. You may need adaptors for electronics and if you want to use a Canadian cell phone, you will be hit with international charges.

Canadians do not always need a passport if staying less than 90 days. A valid driver's licence will work.
All other foreign nationals require a passport with at least 6 months remaining in its period of validity.

The island operates a modern ferry service between Newfoundland and St. Pierre







This is one of my to do things but I still have to visit Newfoundland where my grandmother was born.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 6:52:01 AM
Quote:
1872 Yellowstone becomes the 1st US National Park! What is Canada's1st & best National Park?? Or your nations best National Park!?? COMMENTS? Anyone?


Canadians have good reason to be proud of our National Parks system. I don't know how you could pick a best one because they are all so different reflecting the diversity in geography, topography, flora and fauna in this country.

Banff is well known and it was our first National Park but it is a busy place in the warmer months. I would say that our most spectacular parks are in the west because of the mountains and on the Alberta and BC sides there are several parks with jaw dropping views.

Personally, I have only been to a few and enjoyed them all. But I must add that each of our provinces also maintain spectacular provincial parks.

Banff (Alberta)


Prince Edward Island NP



Fundy National Park. (in New Brunswick)



Forillon NP. (Québec)



Cape Breton Highlands NP. (Nova Scotia)




These are just the ones that I recall visiting. There are many, many more. Some are in our far north and not very accessible but people do go there.

Hard to pick. It's a huge country.

Cheers,

George
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 7:20:59 AM
Thank you George,

It´s only in the last few years, mostly through you, that I realized Canada is so big and has such a small population. And a fascinating history. It´s strange to think that more of my family are now Canadians, and Australians, and of course Germans, as are British ( just a handful ). And I had a huge extended family. Thank you for the insights.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 8:34:52 AM
Not sure if one could call this history as such.

50 years ago today I, a 17 year old music lover, rushed into Liverpool city centre to buy the newly released album - Pink Floyd Dark side of the Moon.

It is the only album that has continually accompanied me for 50 years. I´m playing it again today. 50 years.

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 9:11:54 AM
Hi Trevor, & George,

Great picks of Canada, & the Maritime Provinces, George, I would like to visit them as well. Doesn't the Bay of Fundy have the biggest tides?? Wierd fishing area for those 2 French Islands?

Also Trevor I always try to listen to Oldies Rock Bands, myself! They just don't make music like that anymore??

Cheers,
MD

PS Any history from 3-2? Anyone?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 3:20:27 PM
Quote:
Thank you George,

It´s only in the last few years, mostly through you, that I realized Canada is so big and has such a small population. And a fascinating history. It´s strange to think that more of my family are now Canadians, and Australians, and of course Germans, as are British ( just a handful ). And I had a huge extended family. Thank you for the insights.

Trevor


You're welcome, Trevor. Most Canadians are urbanites and they may know from geography classes that Canada is a big place. It is when we decide to drive somewhere on the other side of the country that the size is impressed upon even us.

Only 37 million of us so there is plenty of room to move about.

Cheers
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13539
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 4:59:15 PM
Quote:
Hi Trevor, & George,

Great picks of Canada, & the Maritime Provinces, George, I would like to visit them as well. Doesn't the Bay of Fundy have the biggest tides?? Wierd fishing area for those 2 French Islands?

Also Trevor I always try to listen to Oldies Rock Bands, myself! They just don't make music like that anymore??

Cheers,
MD

PS Any history from 3-2? Anyone?


Apparently the largest tides in the world at 16m (50 ft) are in the Bay of Fundy. I know that experimental turbines have been set up on floating platforms and they generate a lot of power, sufficient to provide power to about 150 homes at the top of the bay. More to come I understand.

Surfers come from around the world to surf inland on the Petitcodiac River near Moncton, New Brunswick.

Heading upstream on the tide waters.



A couple of surfers from California set a world record by surfing upstream on the Petitcodiac for 29 km.

[Read More]

Impressive power demonstrated by mother nature.

Cheers,

George


OpanaPointer
St. Louis MO USA
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
3/2/2023 5:33:53 PM

tid·al bore
/ˈtīdl bôr/
noun
a large wave caused by the funneling of a flood tide as it enters a long, narrow, shallow inlet.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/3/2023 7:51:55 AM

Topics, for the 4th, of March! What about the 3rd? Any good discussions??

1776 the Americans take the Heights over Boston! Why did the British have trouble holding the Boston Area? Anyone?

1804 big criminal up rising in Austrailia, the Battle of Vinegar Hill! What was this about? Any Commonwealthers know? What say you?

Many Presidents inaugarated on these dates? The 4th, & 5th of March, Why these 2 dates? Comments??

1936 Hindenburg disaster! What caused it? Anyone?


See any discussion events?? For the 3rd? Any events we missed?

Remember the brave Ukrainians!
Peace,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8302
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/3/2023 3:27:34 PM
Hey MHO'ers,

Topics, for 5th of March! I,m going to be traveling back to Michigan, that 's why we posted the last 2 days events early!? Any good discussions, in them? Any new events??

1770 the Boston Massacre occurs! What was its influence in the Revolution? What say you??

1836 Samuel Colt starts producing Colt pistol weapons! How effective were they? What was the best model? Comment??

1862 the Union takes another coastal town in NE Florida! Why were they able to control the Confederates coasts? Where was the Cofederate Navy or help from the RN?? anyone??

1943 the RAF bombs Essen, Germany! How effective was this mission? Anyone?

1946 Winston Churchill's, Iron curtain speech! How right on was WSC? Anyone have a web on the speech?? Comments as well??

2019 the Canadian government is involved in a scandal involving bribes from an engineering firm, Justin Trudeau is possibly involved? What's this all about? Anyone?

See any discussion events??

Peace,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
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