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George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 8:56:34 AM
Quote:
Also on this day in history 1995 the US, Astronauts in the Space Shuttle docked with the Russian Space Station. Could something like that happen today? Maybe? Look at last night in the NHL draft, teams were drafting Russians! What say you, is better relations on the way??


There are some who suggests that we should ban all Russians from earning their living in the NHL. Furthermore, it has been suggested that players like Alexander Ovechkin should have been sent packing long ago as he is an avid and open supporter and campaigner for Putin. An action like that would invite retaliation but I can understand the emotions behind such a suggestion.

Of note, the Canadian Hockey League, the governing body for junior hockey players in Canada has banned the entry of eligible Russian and Belorussian players to the 2023 import draft. The CHL and its three major junior hockey leagues supplies 50% of players in the NHL. The import draft is an annual selection of foreign players who do not reside in the US or Canada.

As for the NHL draft, it is always risky to draft a Russian kid. NHL teams have had little access to these players since most choose to play at home. And not all of them want to play in North America preferring to play in European leagues or the KHL. So an NHL team with a high draft pick has to weigh the odds for and against drafting a Russian hockey player. A team could take a chance on a Russian player and never see the player suit up in the uniform. Or the player may choose to play in the KHL for a few years before trying his luck in the NHL.

Take the case of Chicago Black Hawks which was a sad sack team this year that won the lottery for the number one selection in the draft. Chicago needs to improve to keep the fan base happy. They took Connor Bedard who is an outstanding player and often called a "generational talent". But there was a Russian kid named Michkov who is by most reports, an excellent player and had been ranked as Bedard's equal. Chicago could not possibly waste a draft on the Russian kid not knowing whether he even wants to come to North America or not and really, they could not wait a few years for him to change his mind.

Michkov? Philadelphia took the chance and drafted him in the seventh spot. This kid is under contract for three years in the KHL. He has said that he wants to play in the NHL some day but Philadelphia could lose ownership of the player. The NHL handles issues like that on a case by case basis, whatever that means.

And if an NHL team doesn't sign a first round draft pick within two, they lose him. They will receive a compensatory draft some time in the future from the team that did sign the player but that still means that they lost the player that they wanted and the opportunity to play him immediately.

Last point: Former player and outstanding Czech goalie Dominik Hasek has been all over the social media outlets demanding that players like Ovechkin be immediately banned from the NHL until Russian gets out of Ukraine.

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 9:17:35 AM
MHO, Moving to new page for last chance comments, anyone??

So here is 6-27 in history, not yet commented on?

1844 Joseph Smith of the Mormons is murdered by a mob in Carthage, Illinois! Was this religiously motivated??
Geeze even then people were racially, religiously, & sexual preference oriented & bias?? Why can't we be tollerant, moderate, & just live & let live!? We are so angry & polarized?? What say you??

1917 Greece declares war on the Central Powers! Why so late?.& were they a serious player in WWI!? Comments?

& 6-28 These world history events happened! Comment on any!??

1712 Jean Rousseau, the man who inspired the French Revolution was born! What did he do to stir every one up.?? What say you??

1838 Victoria is crowned Queen of the then British Commonwealth!? Would you say she was their most influential monarch??

1880 Ned Kelly Bush Ranger was killed in a shootout with police! I thought Rangers were good blokes!? Why would the Police gun him down!?? Anyone? Perhaps Ozers??

1894 the US Congress declares Labor day a holiday!? What say you? End of summer, A good time for a holiday!??

1914 the Assassination of the Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, starts WWI! How was this purely bad luck for the poor Arch Duke!? & how can 1 guys death cause a world war??? Anyone??

1919 the Treaty of Versailles is signed! Didn't they lay the blame on Germany!? & this was a major factor leading to WWII!?? What say you??.comments anyone??

2007 the Bald Eagle is removed from the list of endangered species! What say you? Are there many in your neck of the woods?.Anyone??

& today in World History 6-29, these occurred!?

1534 Jacques Cartier land on Prince Edward Island! Is this the beginning of New France??

1767 the Townsand Acts piss of the Colonists again! is this justified!? Crown beware!!?? Comments??

On this day, in 2003 & later 2020, Rich actors like Katherine Hepburn, & then Rob Riener, die at 96, & 98 respectively! Do you think wealthy people live longer?? Bob Hope was 100!?? Anyone??

lots to discuss!
Regards,
MD

BTW George, I agree with you whole heartily about Russians in the NHL, & the wings once had the Russian Five!?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 9:51:43 AM
Quote:


On this day, in 2003 & later 2020, Rich actors like Katherine Hepburn, & then Rob Riener, die at 96, & 98 respectively! Do you think wealthy people live longer?? Bob Hope was 100!?? Anyone??




I've no doubt they work hard, but most actors don't endure the 40-50 years of stressful slog like the rest of us. Obvious exceptions for those who took up military service during the world wars, like Jimmy Stewart.

Cheers,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 1:46:16 PM
Québec Act 1774

The Québec Act passed in the British Parliament on June 22, 1774. It would come into effect on May 1 of the next year. This legislation angered some of the people in the 13 colonies who would come to consider this legislation as one of the "intolerable acts" that compelled them to rebel.

The question is why this legislation could be construed as intolerable. The Québec Act replaced the Royal Proclamation of 1763. That act had laid the foundation for the governance of all British territory including that taken from France as a result of the British victory in the French and Indian war.

In 1760 the French-Canadians were permitted to retain property rights, religious rights and the right to continue to engage in the fur trade. But the Royal Proclamation changed a good deal of that. By 1763, English civil and criminal law had supplanted all of the laws established by the French. Roman Catholics were not permitted to be appointed to any public positions effectively shutting the French-Canadians out of all aspects of government. The British wanted to assimilate the French population.

Assimilation wasn't working and certainly the British desire for massive immigration of English speaking people was not happening. The Royal Proclamation of 1763 was failing.

The British realized that the French-Canadians were disgruntled with their new political masters and policies. So the British governor of Québec renounced the Royal Proclamation and in an attempt to bring the Canadiens onside, the British government was asked to come up with a new law and the Québec Act of 1774 was passed. Governor Guy Carleton had written that Québec was , "“a province unlike any other, and its distinctive circumstances needed to be acknowledged.….” To the chagrin of some Anglo Canadians, it seems that we must still find ways to acknowledge the distinctive nature of Québec.

The hope was that the French would decide that they were better off as part of the Empire than with any other group. So the Québec Act maintained English common law to be used for criminal offences but permitted the use of French civil law. Québec still maintains a civil code in all social and property matters.

Britain also allowed the tithe system to be established to the delight of the Roman Catholic clergy in Québec. This would ensure that when the 13 colonies rebelled that the powerful clergy would advise their flocks not to support the rebels. French speaking citizens also began to assume positions in public office. Religious rights were guaranteed.

But the Québec Act was to serve another purpose as it expanded the colonial territory of Québec. It was no longer just a strip along the St. Lawrence River. The new lands would become the Canadian province of Ontario, and US states of Ohio, Michigan and Indiana, and parts of modern-day Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota. The British had hoped that this expansion would maintain a homeland for First Nations people and would also stop the land speculators and colonists from New England from establishing themselves in the Ohio Valley.

It was this last clause that upset the 13 colonists many of whom were speculating on land assumed on the west side of the Allegheny Mountains. Some of these speculators were among the movers and shakers of the rebel cause during the revolution. George Washington was one of them.

The act also established "Indian Lands" in the new territory ceded to Québec. Another reason for the colonies with expansionist aims to be upset.

So was the Québec Act of 1774 truly intolerable? Or was it a limit placed on those with economic goals?

Cheers,

George


Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 8:13:56 PM
Quote:
2007 the Bald Eagle is removed from the list of endangered species! What say you? Are there many in your neck of the woods?.Anyone?

Was this a US specific decision? I honestly don’t know the breadth of habitat of the Bald Eagle. That the US sees them as a protected species at any time is understandable, given the place that bird holds in your national mythology. But to be honest, I don’t know if their place on the “endangered” list impacted on land outside the US.

In my part of Canada, bald eagles are not at all rare as far as I know. I’ve gone on photo shoots (some years ago) where 80-100 bald eagles were hunting spawning salmon one morning (Little Qualicum River, BC). I’ve watched them tumble through the air while fighting; I still see them (and I’m an urban dweller) hunting prey over city parks in Victoria. I got in arguments with my father, who made a habit of feeding a bald eagle recently raked herring (frozen for bait) by hand. I can’t believe my father didn’t know better than to “groom” wild animals with food; he never fed the racoons or bears or deer that were plentiful in the area.

Cheers,
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 8:54:38 PM
The highest concentration of bald eagles in Canada is in British Columbia. The highest concentration in the US is in Alaska. I read that the great number of tall trees in this part of NA is ideal for nest building.

I have seen bald eagles, many of them, along the Churchill River in Saskatchewan and more recently I saw a pair in central Ontario. The birds are majestic in flight but when I saw them in Ontario it was at the garbage dump near Haliburton. They were scavenging and other birds like the crows were having none of it, harassing the eagles as they searched for food.

They are spread across the country though except in the far north according to this map published by the Nature Conservancy of Canada.



Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 9:10:57 PM


Hi Brian, & George,

Nice posts on the Bald Eagles, I believe that every time you see 1 you add a day to your life! At our ages its good to go Eagle watching!!?

6-30 in history! Comments, anyone??

1859 A guy known as Blondin crosses Niagara Falls on a tight rope! I bet quite a few Canadians, & Americans have since tried!? What say you??

1936 Author Margaret Mitchell published "Gone with the wind"! What say you about this novel on the Civil War in the South!? Stereo typed, or somewhat accurate!?? Anyone? I kinda liked the movie. How bout you??

1960 Zaire declares independence from Belgium! Why was this country, & territory such a horrific powder keg!? Anyone? & how did a little country like Belgium get it in the 1st place?? Comments??

1966 National Organization for Women (NOW), is founded! Many wouldn't like what's going on with their rights now?

1986 Gay rights are being revoked by the Supreme Court, does the SC reflect the wishes of the majority of the people?, something that's bound to come up again soon?? What say you??

1934, the night of the long knives, where Hitler, & the SS kill many opposing Germans! What say you? Didn't this show how horrific the Nazis would become?? Anyone??

Go for it!
MD

Any new topics??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
6/29/2023 9:17:11 PM
Quote:
On this day, in 2003 & later 2020, Rich actors like Katherine Hepburn, & then Rob Riener, die at 96, & 98 respectively! Do you think wealthy people live longer?? Bob Hope was 100!?? Anyone??
Quote:
I've no doubt they work hard, but most actors don't endure the 40-50 years of stressful slog like the rest of us. Obvious exceptions for those who took up military service during the world wars, like Jimmy Stewart.
Cheers,
Colin

I agree that many performers, not just actors, but singers, dancers, writers – even music icons who might be considered to be smoke- and drug-addled – seem to live long lives. Think Bob Dylan; think Mick Jagger; think Leonard Cohen.

Increasingly, that stars in whatever arena – sports, the arts, social media – are well-paid for their efforts can’t be denied. I’m not sure they deserve their bloated salaries, but that isn’t the issue.But – Colin – I don’t know that their lives are any freer of stress than folks in more normal walks of life. My career was so exciting to me that I never felt stress, even with a week or two of 12-14 hour days to meet a deadline. When I worried was when I didn’t have work lined up: that’s stress! And I might suggest that situation would apply to most performers.

So why should folks who work under pressure, and whose reputation (and future paychecks) often depend on their last show, outlive their contemporaries? To be honest, I would argue because most of the folk mentioned lived in the US, that one would have to consider whether they lived longer because they had the money to buy medical services few others can afford. I find that concept obscene, to be frank, but it seems to me the best explanation about artistic longevity.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
6/30/2023 1:38:28 AM
An essential appetite for life, nurtured by a professional empathy for the differing experiences of humanity : does this help to keep the ravages of old age at bay ?

A successful actor requires this facility in order to flourish.

Anything that keeps our interest in humanity alive is bound to be a positive attribute, whether it entails thespian skills or a lively and frequent participation on MHO !

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
6/30/2023 8:55:55 AM


6-30 in history! Comments, anyone??

1859 A guy known as Blondin crosses Niagara Falls on a tight rope! I bet quite a few Canadians, & Americans have since tried!? What say you??

1936 Author Margaret Mitchell published "Gone with the wind"! What say you about this novel on the Civil War in the South!? Stereo typed, or somewhat accurate!?? Anyone? I kinda liked the movie. How bout you??

1960 Zaire declares independence from Belgium! Why was this country, & territory such a horrific powder keg!? Anyone? & how did a little country like Belgium get it in the 1st place?? Comments??

1966 National Organization for Women (NOW), is founded! Many wouldn't like what's going on with their rights now?

1986 Gay rights are questioned by the Supreme Court, something that's bound to come up again soon??

1934, the night of the long knives, where Hitler, & the SS kill many opposing Germans! What say you? Didn't this show how horrific the Nazis would become?? Anyone??

Go for it! Again left these topics above out there to still comment on!?

Hi everyone,

Big holiday in N. America, this weekend is big, July 1st is Canada day, 1867, perhaps our friends from the great white north could share it's history, & their best celebrations of it?? Anyone? BTW Happy Canada Day, It's great to have such friendly nation to our north!!!!!

& of course it's Independence day, 7-4, in the US! Hopefully we will remain a Democracy for years to come? Land of the free? What say you?? Anyway have a great holiday WE! Please keep up this thread, I'll be up north at our cottage, bad internet area, until Tuesday!? So pitch in if you can!?

Also 7-1-1863, the 1st day of the Battle of Gettysburg! & the Unions best day on 7-4, when they won both Vicksburg, & Gettysburg! Please comment on these great battles, & what was important about them!? Anyone??

Also today in history 1997, The British Commonwealth gives up the colony of Hong Kong, peacefully! How did this happen? Would it have possibly been taken by force if the Brits kept it?? Anyone?

Beer, BBQ, fireworks! Alright!!!!!!!!
Except this year the air pollution puts a damper on celebrations!?
MD

BTW MHO'ers from other countries, when is your big celebration days!? We want to know??

Also as far a celebrates living long Bob Hope used to be inverted dayly upside down & he live to be 100?
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
6/30/2023 8:34:20 PM
Quote:
An essential appetite for life, nurtured by a professional empathy for the differing experiences of humanity : does this help to keep the ravages of old age at bay ?

A successful actor requires this facility in order to flourish.

Anything that keeps our interest in humanity alive is bound to be a positive attribute, whether it entails thespian skills or a lively and frequent participation on MHO !

Regards, Phil

Phil, couldn’t agree more, and – as you have done – I too apply that to all of us … even those who simply talk to MHO!

This is not to deny my own feelings about being able to buy the best health care available, which is certainly gonna help. But there is, I believe, and old saw which says: “When you get tired of life, Life gets tired of you!”

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2023 3:05:04 AM
Here we are again : The First of July.

The phenomenal interest in Gettysburg endures, doesn’t it ?

Small wonder : and I like to repeat that exactly one year earlier southern troops had been repulsed in a murderous fight at Malvern Hill, with casualties that almost exactly rivalled what they were to suffer one year later on the first day at Gettysburg. Significantly, the first occasion was a tactical defeat for the confederates which bestowed a strategic victory on them ; while the second one was a reversal : a tactical success that culminated in a strategic defeat.

But over here, we contemplate the most melancholy date in British military annals : the First Day of the Somme in 1916. The number of British soldiers killed that day beggars belief: the first day of a battle that was to continue for another twenty weeks.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2023 8:41:01 AM
As we enter into our July 4th weekend:

At the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked: 'What have you given us Dr. Franklin, a Republic or a Monarchy?"

"A Republic....if you can keep it."

The same answer would have been given if he was asked, "What have you given us, a Republic or a democracy?"

The US is NOT a democracy. A lynch mob is a democracy. The French Revolution toyed with democracy. Where the person in power one day...could loose their head on the Guillotine the next. Our founders and framers despised democracy. Democracy is rule by majority of men.

Republic is the rule of law...not what a majority want no matter what or where it leads.

We were not gifted the Statue of Liberty because of immigration...we were given it by French admirers of our Republic, who wanted to bring back the idea of Republic to France.

The difference between "democracy" and "Republic" is substantial.

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/1/2023 2:46:34 PM
Hello Morris,

I find the definitions of democracy and republic to be indistinct and confusing. I have also read that the US is referred to as a democratic republic which muddies the waters even further.

I get the part about the rule and perhaps tyranny of the majority in a direct democracy and yet Canada and the US tend to use majority votes in our legislative houses and plurality votes in our elections. First past the post wins. Canada of course is a constitutional monarchy and yet one of the criteria cited for a country to be a republic is that it is governed by a constitution. We both have constitutions but one of is not a republic while one is.

You can understand my confusion.

Cheers,

George
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
7/2/2023 7:07:34 AM



George...I bet over half the people in this country are confused or don`t know the difference.

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 6:44:55 AM
Quote:


But over here, we contemplate the most melancholy date in British military annals : the First Day of the Somme in 1916. The number of British soldiers killed that day beggars belief: the first day of a battle that was to continue for another twenty weeks.

Regards, Phil


Hi Phil,

It was around 3rd July 1916 that the 'we regret to inform you...' telegrams started to arrive at homes across Britain, Ireland and the wider Empire. Even those who hadn't suffered any losses would have noticed the increased numbers of telegram messengers running around, overwhelmed by their unenviable job. The scale of the calamity was not something that could be hidden by the military establishment or the press. I wonder if those images of people grieving in such numbers burned a deep scar into our collective psyche more than any other engagement during the First World War?

Cheers,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 6:59:10 AM
Quote:
Quote:


But over here, we contemplate the most melancholy date in British military annals : the First Day of the Somme in 1916. The number of British soldiers killed that day beggars belief: the first day of a battle that was to continue for another twenty weeks.

Regards, Phil


Hi Phil,

It was around 3rd July 1916 that the 'we regret to inform you...' telegrams started to arrive at homes across Britain, Ireland and the wider Empire. Even those who hadn't suffered any losses would have noticed the increased numbers of telegram messengers running around, overwhelmed by their unenviable job. The scale of the calamity was not something that could be hidden by the military establishment or the press. I wonder if those images of people grieving in such numbers burned a deep scar into our collective psyche more than any other engagement during the First World War?

Cheers,

Colin


Undoubtedly, Colin, this stands as a unique event in terms of its scale and the shock of its impact. These were largely casualties from the “ Pals’ Battalions “, which, by their very nature, magnified the losses for local communities and left a lasting sense of bereavement and bewilderment.

Worse still, in a way, was the proportion of men posted as “ missing “, with uncertainty regarding their fate tormenting loved ones for weeks, months and even years.

An astonishing attribute of the nearly sixty thousand British casualties that day was the fact that only one percent of them were confirmed as prisoners of war: the implication as to the fate of the thousands of missing being all too clear.

There were other awful days too : September 25th 1915, the first day of the Battle of Loos being especially conspicuous ; but you, being a Scotsman, Colin, will need no reminding of that !

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 11:48:35 AM
Gettysburg, 1863.

Let William Faulkner say it :

For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o'clock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades ae in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't happened yet , it not only hasn't begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances....

Those words were written in Faulkner's novel Intruder in the Dust, seventy five years ago.

Many would prefer them to be cancelled now.

Regards, Phil



----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 11:54:46 AM
Quote:


Many would prefer them to be cancelled now.



Phil,

They shouldn't be cancelled, but we must remember what the Confederacy was fighting for and what the Union was fighting against. Let's not get too misty eyed about it; that so many men had to die to prove the point is the real tragedy.

Cheers,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 11:55:30 AM
Quote:


There were other awful days too : September 25th 1915, the first day of the Battle of Loos being especially conspicuous ; but you, being a Scotsman, Colin, will need no reminding of that !

Regards, Phil


I'll certainly address the Battle of Loos come September...

Cheers,

Colin
----------------------------------
"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
7/3/2023 1:13:44 PM
Phil, this morning I was having breakfast and coffee out on the porch, and thinking about this date and what had occurred in 1863, and that quote from Intruder In The Dust immediately came to me.

As for cancelling them, the fact is many of the officers of the CSA had been opposed to secession. William Wofford had raised a company from Georgia to go and fight in Mexico for the US. He would become a legislator from Cass County and argued against secession on the floor of the state capitol very strongly...yet few men were as fierce a fighter than he in service to his state during the war. Many of the CSA officers who had bases named for them after the war had served in the US army nobly before becoming Confederate officers. And why would the US government name military bases for them...because it was a part of trying to unite the country...not continually divide it.
Those southerners who served the US military in all the wars since seems to tell the wisdom in the effort to unite all after that civil war conflict. From Joseph Wheeler in the Spanish-American War, ( he referred to the enemy in that war as "Yankees") to the men of the Alabama National Guard who trained with the US "fighting 69th" in the first war to end all wars, and on.

So I am sure many think it wise to cancel, to do away with Ft Bragg or Ft Hood.....but it still pisses me off. Very uniting!

I won`t get into the people who tore down statues.....I would like to enjoy the holiday....other than to remind that I said at that time that those people would move on to statues of Colonial Paitriots, founders and framers...and Union Army memorials. That it wasn`t really about what they claimed it was about. Nuff said.

Respects, Morris



----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/4/2023 5:47:31 PM
Hopefully most had a good holiday!? We're starting with 7-3, to 7-5 today for new events, comment or post on any old, or something new!?

7-3-1608 Samuel Champlain founds the Canadian city of Quebec, any websites on it's history? Anyone?

1856 the US admits Kansas as A state! What was the phrase "Bloody Kansas", about? Comments??

1863 the Battle of Gettysburg is settled, in your opinion, why did the Union win!? Big 4th of July for the Union? Victories in Vicksburg, & Gettysburg? Which was more important? What say you??

7-4, in history! Comments??

1802 the US military Academy is opened in West Point! How was it threatened, early on?? Anyone??

1826 Thomas Jefferson, & John Adams, both die on the 4th of July! 50 years after the Declaration of independence!
Very ironic what say you??

1884 the Statue of Liberty is dedicated to the US from France!? Why???

1946 the Philippines are declared independent! See the US is not always imperialistic! As they gave the Philippines back to its citizens? Comments??

7-5 in history!?

1810 PT Barnum starts a circus! My son & many other kids didn't like it, when they heard animals were mistreated!? Are they??

1859 US Captain Brooks claims the Midway Islands to the US!? Were they occupied by natives?? You never hear of it? Is the US still imperialistic? Anyone??

1865 the US Secret Service is started!? Does your country have anything similar!? Anyone??

1950 Jewish people declared citizens in returning to Isreal! What was the problem with this!?? What about the other peoples living there!?? Comments, anyone??

What say you??
Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/4/2023 9:21:58 PM
D
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2023 7:07:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:


But over here, we contemplate the most melancholy date in British military annals : the First Day of the Somme in 1916. The number of British soldiers killed that day beggars belief: the first day of a battle that was to continue for another twenty weeks.

Regards, Phil


Hi Phil,

It was around 3rd July 1916 that the 'we regret to inform you...' telegrams started to arrive at homes across Britain, Ireland and the wider Empire. Even those who hadn't suffered any losses would have noticed the increased numbers of telegram messengers running around, overwhelmed by their unenviable job. The scale of the calamity was not something that could be hidden by the military establishment or the press. I wonder if those images of people grieving in such numbers burned a deep scar into our collective psyche more than any other engagement during the First World War?

Cheers,

Colin




Phil, or Colin,

How does a soldier get stuck with being "the bearer of tragic news"? That had to be the worst assignment, to tell loved ones their soldier is dead!?

Thanks, & regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Lightning
Glasgow  UK
Posts: 1070
Joined: 2005
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2023 10:19:25 AM
Hi Dave,

Generally it was the company officer who composed the letters to the families of the fallen enlisted men and NCOs. Company officers were normally lieutenants or captains, so any deaths above that would have been written by the regimental or battalion commanding officer and then brigade/division/army commanding officers above the rank of Lt Colonel and Colonel (and so on).

However, the news of the deaths were delivered by telegram or by post; in both cases it was civilians, often young lads, who were handing over the communication. That was a terrible burden to place amongst those who were often still too young to serve in the forces themselves.

Cheers,

Colin
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"There is no course open to us but to fight it out. Every position must be held to the last man: there must be no retirement. With our backs to the wall and believing in the justice of our cause, each one of us must fight to the end."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/5/2023 5:24:44 PM
Quote:
Hi Dave,

Generally it was the company officer who composed the letters to the families of the fallen enlisted men and NCOs. Company officers were normally lieutenants or captains, so any deaths above that would have been written by the regimental or battalion commanding officer and then brigade/division/army commanding officers above the rank of Lt Colonel and Colonel (and so on).

However, the news of the deaths were delivered by telegram or by post; in both cases it was civilians, often young lads, who were handing over the communication. That was a terrible burden to place amongst those who were often still too young to serve in the forces themselves.

Cheers,

Colin


You’re right, Colin : the role of those officers was to write the letters and impart what consolation they could . The awful impact of that catastrophic day fell even more heavily on those officers than it did on the other ranks : there were significantly heavier casualty rates suffered by Captains and Lieutenants than those of the men they led : their death rate that day was twice as high : God knows how the survivors were able to cope with the duties of recording the losses, let alone contact the next of kin. A special commission had to be established to investigate the fate of the victims of 1 July 1916, and it was to take a long time before the true figures could be compiled.

The fate of thousands was to be left to die alone and in agony in No Man’s Land, something that no family could bear to contemplate.

This had happened to Northern families in the American Civil War after the repulse of the yankees at Cold Harbor on 3 June 1864. It was not forgotten or forgiven. The scale for the British people on 1 July 1916 was to be tenfold that of Cold Harbor.

Hard to imagine.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2023 7:44:16 AM
MHO

today, 7-5 in history!?

1810 PT Barnum starts a circus! My son & many other kids didn't like it, when they heard animals were mistreated!?

1859 US Captain Brooks claims the Midway Islands to the US!? Were they occupied by natives?? You never hear of it? Is the US still imperialistic? Anyone??

1865 the US Secret Service is started!? Does your country have anything similar!? Anyone??

1950 Jewish people declared citizens in returning to Isreal! What was the problem with this!?? What about the other peoples living there!?? Comments, anyone??


& tomorrow, 7-6 historical happenings!?


1535 In England Thomas More loses his head over something Henry VIII did!? Why so harsh on the guy? No freedom of speech back then??

1777 British Gen Johnny Burgoyne takes Fort Ticonderoga!? Wasn't it impregnable? How did he do it? What say you??

1885 Louis Pasteur makes a anti rabies vaccine! Did he discover any other Vacines or medical helpers??

1995 the Serbs, massacre over 7,000 Bosnian Moslems! Worst mass killings ever?? Were they ever punished?? Anyone??

Just a few, any others??
Carry on!!
MD

BTW, Thanks Colin, & Phil, on your responses to "the bearers of bad news"!
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3309
Joined: 2007
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2023 12:58:14 PM
In response to the Jews migrating to Israel as citizens; Allied nations seemed disinterested in taking on migrant Jews fleeing the Nazi`s, or Nazi controlled lands. Ships containing migrant Jews were sent here and there and turned away...even FDR only wanted a limited number migrating to the US and made it clear that they were to be spread out across the country, in small groups.

I recall that scene in Schindler`s list, near the end when the Nazi guards had left, and the factory workers were sitting around the front gates...a lone Soviet officer on horse back rides up and proclaims "this camp is liberated by the Soviet Army." There is no one to supply them with food or provisions. When they ask about where to go...he replies, "there is a town a couple of miles over there" and points the way.

" What are we to do," they ask.

"Well he says, " I wouldn`t go east...those people hate you." Then after a thoughtful pause, " I wouldn`t go west either."

Is there really any wonder why the Jews of Europe would want a nation of their own so that the government of THAT nation would be under their control...so that the government of the country they live in cannot allow them to be slaughtered,....and be so disrespected ever again.

Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2023 1:50:58 PM
Agreed, Morris : and not just the Jews of Europe.

The Diaspora was worldwide.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2023 7:25:36 PM
Quote:
1777 British Gen Johnny Burgoyne takes Fort Ticonderoga!? Wasn't it impregnable? How did he do it? What say you??


He did it by having much greater numbers than the rebel force. I believe that Burgoyne had around 7,000 troops including Hessians and a few Canadians. The rebels held the fort but only had about 3,000 troops.

Burgoyne's troops saw the advantage to seizing the higher mountains (hills) near the fort from which they could fire with cannon on Fort Ticonderoga.

The American general wisely vacated the fort and retreated. There were few casualties in this operation if my memory serves me well.

This fort is in an interesting position as control of it allows an attacking force to make use of the famous water highway from the Hudson River through Lake George and then Lake Champlain. Whether it was Britons attacking southward from Canada or Americans attacking northward, the Lake Champlain route was well known and well used. In fact the First Nations Haudenosaunee used to use the same route to travel north to attack rivals and the French.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/6/2023 7:32:08 PM
We all agree that the treatment of Jews over the centuries has been appalling and certainly the destruction of the European Jewish cultures by the Nazis was particularly heinous because of the evil industrial planning associated with the efforts to exterminate the Jews.

But I don't think that we should give Israel a pass as it attempts to annex much more territory than was ever intended by the initial UN agreement. And it is doing so by simply building settlements in territory whose ownership is disputed by the Israelis but not the Palestinians.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/7/2023 7:48:07 AM
Quote:
Quote:
1777 British Gen Johnny Burgoyne takes Fort Ticonderoga!? Wasn't it impregnable? How did he do it? What say you??


He did it by having much greater numbers than the rebel force. I believe that Burgoyne had around 7,000 troops including Hessians and a few Canadians. The rebels held the fort but only had about 3,000 troops.

Burgoyne's troops saw the advantage to seizing the higher mountains (hills) near the fort from which they could fire with cannon on Fort Ticonderoga.

The American general wisely vacated the fort and retreated. There were few casualties in this operation if my memory serves me well.

This fort is in an interesting position as control of it allows an attacking force to make use of the famous water highway from the Hudson River through Lake George and then Lake Champlain. Whether it was Britons attacking southward from Canada or Americans attacking northward, the Lake Champlain route was well known and well used. In fact the First Nations Haudenosaunee used to use the same route to travel north to attack rivals and the French.

Cheers,

George




Hi George,

Why did they call him, "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne, anyway??

Also, BTW I've been to that area, really picturesque geography!

Regards,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/7/2023 7:59:18 AM
7-7, On this day in 1896, the Kingdom of Hawaii was annexed by the US.

With this the US had a big holding in the Central Pacific!

Helped increase the need for it's larger navy!?

What if the Japanese had claimed this??

Peace,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/7/2023 11:48:13 AM



Hi George,

Why did they call him, "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne, anyway??

Also, BTW I've been to that area, really picturesque geography!

Regards,
MD

Apparently he was well regarded by his men as a fair, just and kind leader. So was he a soldier's soldier? Despite the major loss at Saratoga, Burgoyne had previously been successful during the Seven Year's War during his service in Europe.

But I have read that he was fond of sending messages to the colonists to implore them to cease their rebellious ways and they found his style of writing to be overly flowery and pretentious. Perhaps that had something to do with the "Gentleman Johnny" moniker but I prefer to think that he was loved by his men.

He was criticized at home for the loss at Saratoga especially since the plan to separate the New England colonies from the southern colonies was his. It was a good plan but without success from two of the other generals in this three phase plan, Burgoyne was on his own at Saratoga and he paid the price.

Burgoyne was not a one dimensional man. He apparently was also an effective member of Parliament and a successful playwright and actor and gambler. Bit of a character.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2023 1:08:51 PM
Today, 7-8 in history, the following events happened,,,

1497 Vasco da Gama sails to India! How did he do financially on this venture? Really weren't most explorations at this time about making money!? Anyone?

1889 John l Sullivan won the Heavy Weight Boxing Championship over Jake Kilerain in get this? 75 rounds!??? This has to be a misprint!? 75 Rounds! ? I would think they would hang it up, if they knew it would go 75 rounds? Anyone with the details??

1947 Roswell, NM extraterrestrial incident! Did they really have aliens body, and space craft? Or a hoax!? It sure helps Roswell with tourism!? What say you??

Gen.. Douglas MacArthur is named Allied Commander in Korea! How was he able to secure this position? Did he do a good job?? Anyone?

2011 last Space Shuttle mission! Why did they cease?? Safety ? cost? Or what? Comments??

New events, anyone??
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/8/2023 11:45:15 PM
Dave, my reading on your comment, based more on hasty consideration than on any serious study:Quote:
7-7, On this day in 1896, the Kingdom of Hawaii was annexed by the US.

With this the US had a big holding in the Central Pacific!

Helped increase the need for it's larger navy!?

What if the Japanese had claimed this??

Lovely word, “annexed”. But I like stolen, enforced coup, or a host of more powerful words, since I believe they are more accurate. Dole and his fellow “orchardists” wanted better control of and more access to Hawaiian tillable soil. IIRC, they put pressure on Congress but were rejected. They then took matters into their own hand; shut down the palace and government of the Hawaiians and claimed the land as US territory. Washington then felt compelled to support the new government, created and installed by Dole and his cronies in the face of weakened and disheartened Hawaiian opposition.

As to the growth of the US Navy, I would suggest you may have it backward. This was, after all, the height of the Age of US Imperialism. The navy would be built, in part to spread enforce US actions across the Pacific and in part, no doubt, to let the British know they would face a challenge to their claims to rule the waves. The Kingdom of Hawaii offered a good place to base a fleet, it’s true, but the Philippines would have done as well.

The Japanese were, IMHO, not yet prepared for such expansion. Until the mid 1850s, Japan was a totally feudal state, governed (at the time) by the Tokugawa Shogunate. Elements of the US Navy, under the flag of Admiral Perry, entered the waters leading to Edo (modern name: Tokyo) against all rules governing foreign interaction with Japan (the Port of Nagasaki was the only port open to foreigners), anchored his vessels opposite Edo, fired some blank cartridges, and told the Shogun’s that if they attacked his fleet he would level the city. I’m hunting around for a word like “annex” to make this sound like standard diplomacy, but can’t find one.

At any rate, Perry forced Japan to open itself to the world. Japan proved their capabilities and initiative: they built an army (with training and support from Imperial Germany) and a Navy (with the active support of the RN). In early May 1905, Japan would defeat Russia at the Battle of Tsushima Strait (also known as the Battle of Tsushima and the Battle of the Sea of Japan). The defeat was momentous, largely because it was considered the first victory by a coloured people over white people (or an Asian people over a Caucasian people). I guess Europeans and the European diaspora forgot the Khanate, or the ravages of Attila’s hordes.

My point in talking about Tsushima is just to illustrate only that while the Japanese military had made amazing strides since the end of the Age of the Shogunates, even in 1905 they were able to win a modern naval battle largely because they were fighting close to home. Their ships, their deep sea skills and their navigational capabilities had not yet been tested. The second issue links more to an opinion of the Japanese culture. They had no need to take Hawaii; they were an Asian culture which, when they looked to expansion, looked largely to that part of Chinese territory they called Manchukuo. Their reason for expansion was raw materials to fill their need for raw materials to feed their astonishing and cripplingly expensive modernization.

Hawaii could not offer much in that way, so I honestly don’t see they would attempt a claim on Hawaii in 1896, even had they ability to do so.

Cheers
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2023 6:59:57 AM
Hi Brian,

Not justifing the US "annexing" Hawaii but considering its only10% native Hawaiians living there, & its almost 40% Asians, what would of happened if the US (25% caucasians' not sure of US breakdown on this) left It alone?? Anyone?

Not sure how the British people felt about their Empire, but with all due respect to the native Hawaiians, it does look nice to look out over a map of the Pacific, & see Hawaii out there as our 50th state! I have been there once & it is a incredibly beautiful place.

Great response by you, if this was a debate, you win, & I can't defend how these beautiful islands were procured!?

Sorry Hawaii,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8310
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2023 7:06:54 AM
Guys,

Today, 7-9 a couple of events.

1540 Henry VIII's 4th wife Anne of Cleves has a religious ending to her marriage! It has to be a little more complex than this? Why?? Anyone??

British Gen Braddock in the battle of Monogahela, 2/3 rds of his army is killed by French & Indians, lucky for America, George Washington survives! What say you?? What really happened in this battle??

Surely more happened on this day? Anyone got anything else?

Help me out here?
MD

BTW Thanks George on clearing up how Burgoyne got the handle, "Gentleman Johnny"!? BTW my Tigers no hit your Blue Jays yesterday! ☺ But the day before you blasted us with 12 runs! Go figure??

Also today I am attending the funeral of my Brother in law, David A. Barry, USN Submarine Corps, he served on the USS Ethan Allan during the Cold War 1970's he was a great guy, my sister was lucky to latch on to. So helpful to everyone, never a bad word, not a bad bone in his body! I was honored to know him! He passed away after a long battle with cancer. He almost beat it, his doctors were amazed how it almost disappeared from his body by his use of experimental diet! What a fighter he was! He loved life so much!! Like Thomas Jefferson, John
Adams, & James Monroe, A great American, he also passed away on The 4th of July!! , Good journey Dave!!
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2023 8:13:17 AM
On July 7, 1944, 450 bombers of RAF Bomber Command dropped 2500 short tons of bombs on the ancient city of Caen. Caen was part of the initial objective on D-day. It was considered a necessary objective to allow British and Canadian armies to progress to the south while the Americans would advance to the north and east. Caen was a critical road and canal hub.

The area beyond Caen was more suitable for British and Canadian armour to operate.

The Germans wanted it and knew well of its importance and they sent their panzer divisions to hold it and did so fiercely. Much of their armour was concentrated here.

The British and Canadians were held at Caen for nearly two months. This was attritional warfare and costly for both sides. The Germans were experienced but the allies had the advantage of industrial capacity to replace equipment. However, the casualty lists expanded and replacements were harder to come by.

Several attempts to take Caen after D-day had failed. German tanks stopped the British at Villers-Bocage on June 13. An attack called Epsom was stopped on June 30.

And so Montgomery decided to attack Caen again on July 8. Prior to that a difficult decision was taken to bomb the city of Caen on July 7. It was massively destructive to the city and of the citizens left in the city, at least 300 were killed. I have read estimates that over 2,000 civilians lost their lives so I do not know the exact figures. Clearly the loss of property and infrastructure was great.





I do not know how successful the bombing was in reducing German capability. It has been reported that BC was fearful of hitting Canadian and British troops holding to the north of Caen and so failed to hit the Germans as much as was desired. Perhaps someone will weigh in with some information on the effectiveness of this assault.

On the morning of July 8, 1944, Operation Charnwood began. The British sent 60,000 men in a frontal assault that pushed the Germans over the Odon River that cut Caen in half. It would take another operation, Goodwood and the Canadian component, Atlantic to push the Germans fully out of Caen and its suburbs.

This phase of the Battle of Normandy reduced German capability greatly but was very costly to the British, Canadians and other allied troops present and as we see, also to the French people of Caen.

Of note, the use of heavy bombers in a tactical role became more regular after Caen with the knowledge that this tactic could imperil allied troops on the ground waiting to attack. The risk was considered worth taking and indeed on at least two occasions just after the battle for Caen, Canadian, Polish and American soldiers were killed by their own bombers used in this manner.

Cheers,

George

Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6507
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
7/9/2023 4:01:04 PM
George,

An excellent post, thanks.

Rather like the creeping barrages of WW1, the use of heavy bombing in a tactical role in Normandy ( and, almost contemporaneously, at Monte Casino in Italy) was bound to entail “ blue on blue” and was beset with controversy and distaste. The killing of civilians, of course, but also doubts as to its efficacy, especially if it provided the defending Germans with rubble and crater fields which afforded them an advantage in the close quarters infantry combat that ensued.

My father in law was a witness to this , entering Caen after it had been liberated, and he always mentioned the little children, many of them obviously sired by occupying Germans, who mistakenly raised their hands in Nazi salutation to him and his comrades as they passed through the rubble of the city.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
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