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Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/27/2022 11:04:34 AM
Sorry about the triple post, my bad!?

Quote:
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Again checking the sites for 3-27 in history, A few topics, comments? Anyone?

196 bc, Ptolemy V takes the Egyptian throne, was he Egyptian, Greek or some other background? Who was this guy? How did he come to power? Anyone??

1513 Ponce de Leon, sites Florida, looking for the fountain of youth, did he find it? Why did he even think it existed?? Anyone?

1713 Spain loses Gibraltar in a treaty! How did this come about? This will haunt Spain forever!? What say you?

1794 the USN is founded will this compete with the RN?? Comments?

1814 Andrew Jackson defeats the Indians in Alabama! Was Jackson good for the Native Americans? What say you??

1855 A Canadian Abe Gesner, patents kerosene! What's the story, & its effect?? Anyone??

1866 President Andrew Johnson vetos Civil rights bill! Why? Does he not believe in equality!?
Comments on this?

1924 Canada recognizes the USSR, why? & how did this differ with the US??

1944 thousands of Jews exterminated in Germany, was this their most horrific year? Tragic!?

1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

All new topics? Comments?
Regards,
MD



----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/27/2022 12:14:24 PM
Quote:
1794 the USN is founded will this compete with the RN?? Comments?


In what time frame, MD. The USN is clearly the larger navy of the two. There have been recent articles describing the RN as a mere shadow of the navy that ruled the seas for 200 years and describing the RN as a victim of a series of budget cutting governments.

However, there is talk that future UK government investments will make the RN the largest navy in Europe.

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I think that the question that we could consider is when did the USN become the larger navy. In 1941 the RN was still the largest navy in the world. By the end of the war, the USN was the larger of the two navies. The RN played a critical role in winning that war especially in the Battle of the Atlantic and on D-day.

But your question asked whether the USN was competitive or did have to compete (read fight) the RN. The War of 1812 saw the USN and the RN go head to head. On the high seas the RN was dominant.

I know that students of that war will cite the number of one on one, RN vs USN, battles that took place and in which the US was the winner. All true but I would add that the US was building larger frigates with larger crews at that time and in a one on one encounter, they could dominate.

But on the whole, the RN dominated during this war, on the high seas. It effectively blockaded the whole eastern seaboard and in the final year of the war the RN was able to attack cities wherever it chose and to land troops to attack cities like Washington, Baltimore and New Orleans. The US economy was shattered because the nation could not effectively trade because of the blockade.

Now on the Great Lakes, the USN did well winning an important battle on Lake Erie and another on Lake Champlain. But it would be incorrect to presume that these battles involved the best RN ships and crews available. I would have to check to see how many RN vessels on the lakes were crewed by members of the Provincial Marine who were colonials and much despised by the regulars.

EDIT: From a wiki article: The crew of the British fleet was made up of only 7 RN seamen. 108 crew members were from the Provincial Marine which was more of a transportation organization than a navy. The crews were rounded out with soldiers with 54 soldiers from the Newfoundland Fencibles and another 106 from the 41st Regiment of Foot. The soldiers were not trained seamen.


On Lake Ontario, the RN was able to maintain control but not because of any great battle. The USN and RN commanders spent most of the war trying to avoid one another by staying in port when the opponent had announced a new and larger vessel in its fleet.

However, when the US had invaded the Niagara peninsula in 1813/14, the British and colonial militia were able to keep the US army at bay and forced them to leave the country. This was partly because the USN could not or would not sail on Lake Ontario to resupply the army. Part of that was the fact that the RN had the larger fleet but also because the US naval commander was determined that he would not be a lackey to the army and its needs.

I cannot recall a time after this war that the RN and USN fought against one another.

Cheers,

George




Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
3/27/2022 7:38:36 PM
On this date in 1942, the first US round-up of Japanese-Americans took place on Bainbridge Island, WA. 227 souls were taken under armed guard (with fixed bayonets) from their homes and livelihood from this island some 30 minutes distance across the bay from Seattle. Most, IIRC, were farmers, though some were fishermen. Their neighbours – largely white – were in sympathy with their cause, and came down to see them off. Many promises were made concerning husbanding the abandoned farms; many of those pledges were executed faithfully.

Why was Bainbridge Island the first incarceration site? Because the US Pacific Coast was divided into five zones for the purpose of removing the Japanese. Washington, being the most northerly US state at the time, was Zone 1. Start at the beginning and go to the end. Then stop.

From what I can understand, Canada began the process even earlier than the US, with first shipments began as early as 14 Jan 1942 and a general order in early March 1942 to remove all people of Japanese origin from a 100 mile cordon running down Canada’s Pacific coast. Their goods, lands and livelihoods were sold (often at public auction) to defray the costs associated with their incarceration, and many “salt-of-the-earth” Canadians – at least a couple of my uncles amongst them – bought commercial fishing boats (with their much more valuable licenses) for 10¢ on the $.

Cheers,
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 8:37:50 AM
Quote:
Sorry about the triple post, my bad!?

Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

Again checking the sites for 3-27 in history, A few topics, comments? Anyone?

196 bc, Ptolemy V takes the Egyptian throne, was he Egyptian, Greek or some other background? Who was this guy? How did he come to power? Anyone??

1513 Ponce de Leon, sites Florida, looking for the fountain of youth, did he find it? Why did he even think it existed?? Anyone?

1713 Spain loses Gibraltar in a treaty! How did this come about? This will haunt Spain forever!? What say you?

1794 the USN is founded will this compete with the RN?? Comments?

1814 Andrew Jackson defeats the Indians in Alabama! Was Jackson good for the Native Americans? What say you??

1855 A Canadian Abe Gesner, patents kerosene! What's the story, & its effect?? Anyone??

1866 President Andrew Johnson vetos Civil rights bill! Why? Does he not believe in equality!?
Comments on this?

1924 Canada recognizes the USSR, why? & how did this differ with the US??

1944 thousands of Jews exterminated in Germany, was this their most horrific year? Tragic!?

1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

All new topics? Comments?
Regards,
MD





Hi George,

In your reply to the USN vrs the RN you mention the US invading Canada 1913-14!? I have heard nothing about such a conflict??

& Bri, both the US & Canadian governments treated their Japanese Citizens during WWII just unfairly & terrible!?

MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 8:54:52 AM
Quote:
In your reply to the USN vrs the RN you mention the US invading Canada 1913-14!? I have heard nothing about such a conflict??


That's because I made a typographic error. Should have read "1813/14" as I was discussing the War of 1812. I have corrected it.

In late 1914, Canada was at war with Germany and its allies.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 9:38:20 AM
Quote:
1924 Canada recognizes the USSR, why? & how did this differ with the US??


FDR recognized the USSR in 1933.

The UK had signed a trade agreement with the Soviets in 1921 called the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement. Up until then the RN had been blockading Soviet ports. Lenin made some promises to trade fairly with other non-communist countries.

There was also the matter or repatriation of German prisoners and Lenin made some promises on that and so the UK signed the deal.

There were concerns about the agreement in Canada because the government felt that communist infiltration had lead to labour unrest. And Canada had sent troops to Russia to fight against the communist lead revolt. So there was a lot of distrust.

But Canada decided to accept the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement as well. And with that the USSR was recognized.

The USSR sent a trade representative to Canada in 1923. Canada had a trade history with Russia and was keen to do more so the UK trade deal was appealing. But Canada did have the right to negotiate its own agreement and did so.

Note that the British raided the Soviet trade office in London suspecting that they had spied and stolen sensitive documents. This was the ARCOS Raid. Now the UK had agreed to accept the existence of the Soviet trade mission as a diplomatic mission and so the raid was criticized. Countries aren't supposed to raid diplomatic missions even if the Soviet trade office wasn't officially and embassy.

The UK reported to the Dominions that:

Quote:
British authorities immediately alerted Ottawa claiming "that Arcos has been used as a centre of military espionage and of Communist activities both in the United States, the Dominions and in this country".


As for the Soviets, the agreement with the UK also included a clause that committed them to refrain from carrying out revolutionary activities and propaganda anywhere in the British Empire. The RCMP had been watching the Soviet trade mission in Canada and had concerns.

Now Canada had demanded that it be permitted to sign the Treaty of Versailles that ended WW1, as an independent nation. They did but when the document was written, the Dominions (Canada, Australia and New Zealand) were lumped in the document as members of the Empire so separate from Britain but not by as much as the Dominions desired. The degree of independence and sovereignty of the Dominions was still debated despite the fact that the Dominions demanded this recognition as a result of their sacrifices during WW1.

And so the UK broke off relations with the Soviets in 1927 and Canada followed suit. The PM of the day was Mackenzie-King who would go on to be Canada's longest serving PM and he had this to say about cutting relations with the Soviets.

Quote:
As soon as I read it [London's breaking off of the Trade Agreement with the USSR] I felt we should follow suit - never having trusted the agency in Canada and feeling certain public opinion would demand cancellation by Canada. I have wished to cancel all along and this gives a fine opportunity to do the right thing and help Britain and show the unity of the British Empire. I felt that Skelton would be hesitant, as he and I differed on the Russian office at Montreal, but I found he too was of opinion that it would not be possible to continue the agreement. He did not contemplate immediate action, but I felt this was important, if action were to be taken at all. My thought is that in China the Souviets [sic] are operating adversely to Britain and we are not participating with Britain in China, to hold aloof now and not cancel the agreement wd be construed as siding with Russia as against Britain - also the propaganda of the Souviets is damnable - especially the anti-religious side. We do not want communism flourishing in our country.
. source: The King Diaries

Cheers,

George

Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6509
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 10:47:39 AM
A terrific day of fighting in 1918.

Operation Mars, as the Germans named it, was an attempt to follow up on their momentous success of the initial huge attack that had been launched exactly one week earlier.

This time , they did not enjoy the same tactical advantages that had accompanied them on the 21st.

There was no fog to hide under, and instead of attacking an overstretched and bewildered defensive deployment, they were confronted by a consolidated and coherent British bastion of prepared artillery and machine gun defence, manned by confident and competent troops. The British held formidable defensive zones near Arras, bolstered up by the possession of Vimy Ridge, which the Canadians had won nearly one year before.

The result was failure for the Germans, and a massacre of their infantry.

A major turning point in the war, which deserves more acknowledgement.

Regards, Phil
----------------------------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 1:11:55 PM
Quote:
Thanks Gary,

The Canadian government did not approve of the smuggling of liquor by its citizens. I just wanted to make that clear. After all, the crew of I'm Alone had been in violation of US law in the past and at the time that they were ordered to heave to, they had every intention of doing it again.

The objection of course was that the US was trying to enforce its laws on the high seas and it seems that the US authorities agreed that the USCG vessels had acted improperly.

Cheers,

George



Hi George,

From what I heard the Canadian Government should be concerned in these hard fuel times with grain theft!? Farmers in Manitoba, & the prairie provinces, are the victims!? One lost 40,000 dollars in Canola?? Lots of health experts are turning to Canola Oil for health!? Since a lot of it is produced in Canada. Just what is Canola? It is becoming quite popular in the US as well!? Why is it & other farm grain type products being pilfered?? What is being done to prevent it??

Thanks, & regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 7:01:57 PM
Quote:
A terrific day of fighting in 1918.

Operation Mars, as the Germans named it, was an attempt to follow up on their momentous success of the initial huge attack that had been launched exactly one week earlier.

This time , they did not enjoy the same tactical advantages that had accompanied them on the 21st.

There was no fog to hide under, and instead of attacking an overstretched and bewildered defensive deployment, they were confronted by a consolidated and coherent British bastion of prepared artillery and machine gun defence, manned by confident and competent troops. The British held formidable defensive zones near Arras, bolstered up by the possession of Vimy Ridge, which the Canadians had won nearly one year before.

The result was failure for the Germans, and a massacre of their infantry.

A major turning point in the war, which deserves more acknowledgement.

Regards, Phil




Hi Phil,

Good observation on Operation Mars in March of 1918, things certainly went south for the Germans after that! The Flu Pandemic of that year, effected their military strength! & Their spring offensive was a failure, the Allies were getting stronger in arms, & troops by the day! It would continue on this track until the armistice of 11-11. They (the Germans), had their own internal revolution, & the sailors revolt & finally the abduction of the Kiaser himself!? They certainly won't like the findings of the Treaty of Versailles where they basically picked up the tab for the war!??

Nice post,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/28/2022 9:20:07 PM



Hi George,

From what I heard the Canadian Government should be concerned in these hard fuel times with grain theft!? Farmers in Manitoba, & the prairie provinces, are the victims!? One lost 40,000 dollars in Canola?? Lots of health experts are turning to Canola Oil for health!? Since a lot of it is produced in Canada. Just what is Canola? It is becoming quite popular in the US as well!? Why is it & other farm grain type products being pilfered?? What is being done to prevent it??

Thanks, & regards,
MD

Canola is an oil produced from the canola plant which is related to rapeseed. I have read that the word canola was an invention in Canada by the Canadian Canola Council and is supposed to stand for "Can (from Canada) plus "o" for oil, " l " for low and "a" for acid.

Canadian scientists engaged in a breeding programme in the '70's to create a low acid oil that they called canola.

As I recall the producers came up with that name to differentiate the oil's source from the rapeseed plant and because the name, rapeseed, is unappealing. There is a difference between highly acidic rapeseed oil which is used industrially and canola which is used in cooking. The cooking oil is bred and treated to be lower in a certain type of acid that would make it unpalatable.

I use it a lot in cooking because it has a higher smoke point than does something like olive oil. Not all oils are equal of course and most of us don't pay much attention to the ratio of unsaturated to saturated fats in the oil. Oils like safflower and sunflower oil have a lot of polyunsaturated fat and that is healthier for you.

Canola has monosaturates in it but that is still supposed to be better for you than fats with a large saturated fat component, like coconut oil. Even with that, canola has a 4:1 ratio of polyunsaturated fatty acids to monounsaturated fatty acids.

I haven't given canola much thought. Our grocery shelves are full of it because we grow a lot of canola plants and it is worth billions of dollars every year to the economy.

Canola theft has been a problem for quite a while. Canola seed is stored in big steel bins and any thief with a grain auger can pull up at night and take the seed. It's profitable for the thief. I looked this up and canola can go for $500 per tonne.



Farmers are being forced to beef up surveillance and security. Remember the farmers in the west don't usually talk about how many acres they farm, they talk about how many sections they farm. A section contains 640 acres and it is a mile square. So a farmer's storage bins may be a long way from his residence.

Here's canola oil in a no-name bottle:



Now that was an exciting picture but it is a lighter oil and excellent for cooking. For taste, I go with olive oil.

Cheers,

George

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/29/2022 9:03:05 AM
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BTW George, thanks for the Canola history lesson, I use it to cook as well!!

Again checking the sites for 3-27 in history, A few topics we havent commented on, comments? Anyone?

196 bc, Ptolemy V takes the Egyptian throne, was he Egyptian, Greek or some other background? Who was this guy? How did he come to power? Anyone??

1513 Ponce de Leon, sites Florida, looking for the fountain of youth, did he find it? Why did he even think it existed?? Anyone?

1713 Spain loses Gibraltar in a treaty! How did this come about? This will haunt Spain forever!? What say you?

1814 Andrew Jackson defeats the Indians in Alabama! Was Jackson good for the Native Americans? What say you??

1855 A Canadian Abe Gesner, patents kerosene! What's the story, & its effect?? Anyone??

1866 President Andrew Johnson vetos Civil rights bill! Why? Does he not believe in equality!?
Comments on this?

1944 thousands of Jews exterminated in Germany, was this their most horrific year? Tragic!?

1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

All new topics? Listed below!? Comments?
Regards,
MD




Checking 3-29 in history, here's a whole ton of the events for discussion!? C'mon help us out here! Get involved!???

845 Paris is seiged by the Vikings! Just how far into the middle of Europe did they advance?? Comments??

1794 the republic of Switzerland is formed! How did this little land locked country gain independence!? & why are they always neutral?? What say you about the Swiss???

1804 thousands of white people massacred in Haiti! How & why?? Did this have any effect on the US South!???

1847 the US captures Vera Cruz, Mexico! What famous US Civil War generals were involved?? Anyone??

1848 Niagara Falls stops! Yeah sure!? How & any news on it?? Comments?

1867 the Canadian Constitution is formed, Anyone enlighten us on how it differs from the US's!??? Comments or websites?

1865 the Appomattox Campaign starts over 7,500 men will die til April 9th, mostly Rebs.?? Anyone have the breakdown on casualties??

1912 Robert Falcon Scott makes his last entry in a tent in the Arctic, what mistakes did he make to lead to this tragedy!? What say you??

1936 Nazi propaganda says 99% of the Germans are pro Nazi! What's the real figure?? We really don't know?? Any figures on this? Anyone??

1942 the RN Cruiser Trinadad torpedoes itself!! How in the he'll could this happen!? Anyone know??

1942 RN bombing of Lubeck Germany, 1st Bomber Command attack! Was Bomber Harris involved? & how successful was it?? Anyone??

1945 last V-1 attack! How did the Allies stop these rocket attacks?? What say you??

1976 the US National Guard 8 of them indicted for killing 4 Kent State students! Who ordered this? Who was to blame? What ultimately happened to them?? Comments?

Lots to discuss here,
Regards,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/29/2022 12:41:23 PM
Quote:
1945 last V-1 attack! How did the Allies stop these rocket attacks?? What say you??


The V-1 was actually a flying bomb. We could argue that the allies never really stopped the V-1 attacks, the first of which landed on London on June 13, 1944 shortly after the Normandy landings. Over 8500 of them were launched against Britain and Antwerp and Brussels. That number comes from German records which also say that only 57% reached their targets.

Even with that, thousands were killed and many more injured.



Unlike the V-2, the V-1 could be intercepted and shot down by fighters. They were also shot down by anti-aircraft weapons. As a last resort, skilled pilots would attempt to bump the doodlebugs to knock them off course. I have read that pilots would try to tip the wing of the V-1 with their wing but I don't know whether this was a factual or even common technique.

The 1st Canadian Army was advancing on the far left of the allies and as a result it was responsible for taking the ports closest to Britain and they did overrun the launch rails of the V-1 located in the Dieppe to Pas de Calais area. I recall reading that the Canadians reported that the air forces had done a marvellous job in destroying many of the launch sites.

That was costly with nearly 2000 aircrew killed in attacks on the launch sites and the manufacturing sites.

There were launch sites in Cherbourg and I presume that US troops overran those but I don't know whether Germany ever got the opportunity to use the Cherbourg launch sites.

There were also sites in Netherlands but these were aimed toward Belgium, I believe. Once the sites along the French coast had been destroyed, Germany set up ramps in Netherlands.

A short video taken in 1944 of Canadian troops examining a V-1 site and the device itself. Not the best quality of video but interesting.

[Read More]

So the number of V-1 launches against Britain were reduced by Sept. of 1944 but then the Germans began to launch V-2's.

Of the 6700 launched at Britain, the last arrived on Mar. 27, 1945. The last ones to hit Antwerp and Brussels were launched on Mar. 30, 1945. It took a lot of resources and manpower to stop them.



Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
3/29/2022 10:01:15 PM
Quote:
1942 RN bombing of Lubeck Germany, 1st Bomber Command attack! Was Bomber Harris involved?

Lübeck was indeed a target. Bomber Harris was indeed in place. But to be precise, it was (Bomber Command War Diaries, p. 251) “the first major success for Bomber command against a German target.”

Bomber Harris had been with Bomber Command slightly more than one month (23 Feb 1942). In effect, Bomber Command had been in “winter quarters” (minimizing raids against distant targets) since mid-November 1941, with a highly unsuccessful, very costly raid on 7/8 Nov 1941 acting as catalyst. The effectiveness of nearly every aspect of Bomber Command was being assessed, given the relative lack of impact.

The Butt Report (mid-August 1941) had demonstrated bombing inaccuracies of huge proportions; there was a severe lack of navigational aids or techniques. The bomber aircraft with which GB started the war were proving unequal to the tasks they were expected to perform (the Fairey Battle was now reduced to towing target drones; the Hampden was largely relegated to maritime sweeps and occasional harassment raids against France, as were the Blenheims (Marks I and IV); the Stirling was proving unable to attain great enough heights to get above medium flak and the Halifax and Manchester were both showing severe weaknesses in their early versions). Navigation aids were either in the works or were still too limited to assist in deep raids. Weather forecasting was insufficiently able to provide accurate data for in-flight navigation. Tactics for attack were largely self-directed, with pilots determining routes, attack times, attack techniques, etc.

In addition, German defenses were becoming more sophisticated. The Kammhuber Line of German night-fighting stations was having some success. By 1942, there were 28 “western” Himmelbet boxes, with an additional nine covering western approaches to Berlin.

These were the challenges Sir Arthur Harris faced when he took operational command of Bomber Command. On paper, he had perhaps as many as 700 a/c, but his effective force was much smaller. His chief a/c were still twin-engined; only 26 of the 234 a/c which assaulted Lübeck were 4-engined. His effective strike force at the time was probably in the neighbourhood of 300 serviceable a/c per night. Three days before Lübeck, 254 BC a/c attacked Essen with little success; I raise that raid because it looks as if 250 a/c might have been an upper limit on a/c available.

IIUC, Lübeck was a test raid. The RAF had been studying how to make their assaults more effective. Part of this depended on the object of the raid. In this instance, the objective was to test bomb/incendiary ratios for effectiveness. Lübeck was chosen as one of several possible targets because its construction and street plan were both amenable to being set on fire. To quote Bomber Command War Diaries again, “More than 400 tons of bombs were dropped; two thirds of this tonnage was incendiary. The aiming point as the centr of the Altstadt[i/], which was built of narrow streets and old, half-timbered houses. It was a heavy, fire-raising attack on pure area-bombing lines.” Great structural damage was caused, but loss of life and wounded were both relatively low (312-320 killed; 136 seriously and 648 slightly injured). Nevertheless, this was the heaviest toll of civilians to date by Bomber Command.

There is one more point worth making, IMHO. Lübeck was a Hanseatic port, as were many of the “Freistadten” across northern Germany. Lubeck’s charter goes back to 1226. Rostock, another Hanseatic city (1218) would be attacked on 23/4 April 1942. They were being attacked as tests of bomb-loads, though Lübeck’s port was probably receiving Swedish ore and Rostock had some war-related industry. But to the Nazis, this was an attack on Germanic “Kulture”. Long before the existence of a modern German nation, the Hanseatic cities (recognized as “Freistadten” – there were a number, but the principle ones in 1939 included Lübeck, Rostock, Hamburg and Bremen). This was, according to Dr Goebbels, an attack on German cultural history and values.

There were at least two off-shoots of this. The first is the introduction of the concept of “terror-fliegeren” – terrorists rather than enemy forces. This would grow during the coming years. The second is the largely ineffective “Baedeker Raids” by the Luftwaffe on historically significant cities in the UK.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
3/31/2022 11:14:21 AM
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

BTW George, thanks for the Canola history lesson, I use it to cook as well!!

Again checking the sites for 3-27 in history, A few topics we havent commented on, comments? Anyone?

196 bc, Ptolemy V takes the Egyptian throne, was he Egyptian, Greek or some other background? Who was this guy? How did he come to power? Anyone??

1513 Ponce de Leon, sites Florida, looking for the fountain of youth, did he find it? Why did he even think it existed?? Anyone?

1713 Spain loses Gibraltar in a treaty! How did this come about? This will haunt Spain forever!? What say you?

1814 Andrew Jackson defeats the Indians in Alabama! Was Jackson good for the Native Americans? What say you??

1855 A Canadian Abe Gesner, patents kerosene! What's the story, & its effect?? Anyone??

1866 President Andrew Johnson vetos Civil rights bill! Why? Does he not believe in equality!?
Comments on this?

1944 thousands of Jews exterminated in Germany, was this their most horrific year? Tragic!?

1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

All new topics? Listed below!? Comments?
Regards,
MD




Checking 3-29 in history, here's a whole ton of the events for discussion!? C'mon help us out here! Get involved!???

845 Paris is seiged by the Vikings! Just how far into the middle of Europe did they advance?? Comments??

1794 the republic of Switzerland is formed! How did this little land locked country gain independence!? & why are they always neutral?? What say you about the Swiss???

1804 thousands of white people massacred in Haiti! How & why?? Did this have any effect on the US South!???

1847 the US captures Vera Cruz, Mexico! What famous US Civil War generals were involved?? Anyone??

1848 Niagara Falls stops! Yeah sure!? How & any news on it?? Comments?

1867 the Canadian Constitution is formed, Anyone enlighten us on how it differs from the US's!??? Comments or websites?

1865 the Appomattox Campaign starts over 7,500 men will die til April 9th, mostly Rebs.?? Anyone have the breakdown on casualties??

1912 Robert Falcon Scott makes his last entry in a tent in the Arctic, what mistakes did he make to lead to this tragedy!? What say you??

1936 Nazi propaganda says 99% of the Germans are pro Nazi! What's the real figure?? We really don't know?? Any figures on this? Anyone??

1942 the RN Cruiser Trinadad torpedoes itself!! How in the he'll could this happen!? Anyone know??

1942 RN bombing of Lubeck Germany, 1st Bomber Command attack! Was Bomber Harris involved? & how successful was it?? Anyone??

1945 last V-1 attack! How did the Allies stop these rocket attacks?? What say you??

1976 the US National Guard 8 of them indicted for killing 4 Kent State students! Who ordered this? Who was to blame? What ultimately happened to them?? Comments?

Lots to discuss here,
Regards,
MD


Still lots of topics above not touched upon!? Any more posts on these???


Thanks George, on the great post on the V-1, your right it was more like a primitive jet than a rocket!? Do you have a comparison of the V-1 & the V-2, & other rocket type weapons used by Hitler? How close to Atomic weapons was the Reich?? Anyone??

& Brian, Excellent post on the RN 1942 bombing operation against Lubeck, Germany!? What was the background on Bomber Harris that made him such a competent commander of WWII RN Bombing Operations!?

BTW today 003/30/1972 the last day of Rum Rations in the Royal Canadian Navy! What's up with this?? Certainly grounds for mutiny!???

Also anyone with any new topics from the end of March in history!!??????

Carry on gents,
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
3/31/2022 3:12:43 PM
Quote:
BTW today 003/30/1972 the last day of Rum Rations in the Royal Canadian Navy! What's up with this?? Certainly grounds for mutiny!???






The RCN adopted this practice from the RN. Even as late as the years just prior to WWII many Canadians who aspired to a naval career had travelled to the UK and joined the RN. Many RCN officers had been sent to the UK to learn and gain experience aboard ships.

And so the RCN issued rum as well. Note that the issuance of alcohol to Canadian forces is also rooted in our history. In WW I, soldiers were also issued a tot of rum and the anecdotal reports that I have read indicate that the Canadian soldier felt that his rum issue may have been what got him through the day.

Quote:
“when the days shorten, and the rain never ceases; when the sky is ever grey, the nights chill, and trenches thigh deep in mud and water; when the front is altogether a beastly place, in fact, we have one consolation. It comes in gallon jars, marked simply SRD.”
. source: Private Ralph Bell, Canadian infantry.

SRD apparently stands for "Standard Rum Diluted". Some say it stands for "Special Red Demerara".


Quote:
“Most of us carried on…because of not limitless but more than ordinary issues of rum.”


source: Private M.A. Searle reflecting on the Battle of Passchendaele.




It is interesting to note that the RN used to travel with beer to dole out to the sailors but beer takes up a lot of space aboard a ship and when Jamaica became part of the Empire, the RN adopted dark rum as its alcohol of choice.

But the RN stopped the rum ration in 1970, two years before the RCN. As far as I know, the RAN never had a rum ration and Australian sailors only received it if they served on a RN vessel. Cheers to the RNZN which stopped the rum ration in 1990.

Is it true that the USN stopped the issue of rum during the civil war? If so, why?

I have included an interesting article from the Legion Magazine titled, "Rum in the Trenches". It gives some incite as to the thinking of higher command which saw rum as a reward and a motivator.

[Read More]

Cheers,

George
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3270
Joined: 2010
This day in World History! Continued
3/31/2022 6:20:57 PM
The Dutch Navy used to be issued with "Jenever" - Dutch Gin - which is why Gin is often refered to as "Dutch Courage".

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
3/31/2022 7:44:04 PM
Trevor, thank you for that little gem. Obvious, once expressed.

I once had a sip of RCN rum. A buddy (a fleet navy diver, so not ship-based) received his daily tot, and would save it for use as a punch base when he held parties. It was not really meant to be taken at full strength, IIRC, but was typically diluted. But at full strength it was very powerful indeed.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
3/31/2022 7:58:28 PM
Quote:
1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

For me, not so much felt as heard. I was visiting my parents in the town of Sechelt, some 50 miles NW of Vancouver, and remember hearing it. Don’t remember feeling a tremor, or seeing any visible geological activity (i.e., water disturbance – my parents owned oceanfront property on Georgia Strait).

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/1/2022 8:58:34 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:


Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

BTW George, thanks for the Canola history lesson, I use it to cook as well!!

Again checking the sites for 3-27 to 3-30, in history, A few topics we haven't commented on, comments? Anyone?

196 bc, Ptolemy V takes the Egyptian throne, was he Egyptian, Greek or some other background? Who was this guy? How did he come to power? Anyone??

1513 Ponce de Leon, sites Florida, looking for the fountain of youth, did he find it? Why did he even think it existed?? Anyone?

1713 Spain loses Gibraltar in a treaty! How did this come about? This will haunt Spain forever!? What say you?

1814 Andrew Jackson defeats the Indians in Alabama! Was Jackson good for the Native Americans? What say you??

1855 A Canadian Abe Gesner, patents kerosene! What's the story, & its effect?? Anyone??

1866 President Andrew Johnson vetos Civil rights bill! Why? Does he not believe in equality!?
Comments on this?

1944 thousands of Jews exterminated in Germany, was this their most horrific year? Tragic!?

1980 Mount St. Helens erupts was it felt even as far as Canada?? What say you??

All new topics? Listed below!? Comments?
Regards,
MD




Checking 3-31, in history, here's a whole ton of the events for discussion!???

845 Paris is seiged by the Vikings! Just how far into the middle of Europe did they advance?? Comments??

1794 the republic of Switzerland is formed! How did this little land locked country gain independence!? & why are they always neutral?? What say you about the Swiss???

1804 thousands of white people massacred in Haiti! How & why?? Did this have any effect on the US South!???

1847 the US captures Vera Cruz, Mexico! What famous US Civil War generals were involved?? Anyone??

1848 Niagara Falls stops! Yeah sure!? How & any news on it?? Comments?

1867 the Canadian Constitution is formed, Anyone enlighten us on how it differs from the US's!??? Comments or websites?

1865 the Appomattox Campaign starts over 7,500 men will die til April 9th, mostly Rebs.?? Anyone have the breakdown on casualties??

1912 Robert Falcon Scott makes his last entry in a tent in the Arctic, what mistakes did he make to lead to this tragedy!? What say you??

1936 Nazi propaganda says 99% of the Germans are pro Nazi! What's the real figure?? We really don't know?? Any figures on this? Anyone??

1942 the RN Cruiser Trinadad torpedoes itself!! How in the he'll could this happen!? Anyone know??

1976 the US National Guard 8 of them indicted for killing 4 Kent State students! Who ordered this? Who was to blame? What ultimately happened to them?? Comments?

Lots to discuss here,
Regards,
MD


Still lots of topics above not touched upon, yet!? Any more posts on these???


Also anyone with any new topics?? Check the read mores for 4-1 in history! Comments??
MD

BTW, It's APRIL FOOLS DAY! What's the history behind April 1, being a day for fools!?? Anyone? What's the biggest situation you were fooled at on 4-1 !???? Anyone??
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/1/2022 4:22:30 PM
Quote:
1804 thousands of white people massacred in Haiti! How & why?? Did this have any effect on the US South!???


I think it could be fairly argued that the treatment of black slaves in the sugar islands owned by Britain, France and the Netherlands was worse than the treatment in the southern states. There were disruptions and rebellions on other islands.

But the revolt on Haiti (French colony of St. Domingue) was the only rebellion that resulted in the created of an independent state that was ruled by black people. The US did not recognize Haiti until 1862. But the US had engaged in a strong relationship with Haiti when it was under slave rule.

Note that the uprisings in Haiti began about the time of the French Revolution which American supported. And so when the slaves rebelled in Haiti, a moral dilemma arose. How does one support the French in their rebellion but not the Haitians, including blacks and mixed race people seeking the same thing?

So the US did send some support to the white slave owners in Haiti and from what I understand the spectre of a massive slave revolt did shake slave owners in the US. The US did receive white and free mixed race people from Haiti as refugees. A good number wound up in New Orleans.

I know that the US sent some USN vessels to help support Toussanit Louverture who was black and in control of part of the island.

When Jefferson was Sec. of State, he felt that more support for the French was required. Jefferson was also concerned that a power other than France would swoop in to take control and for the US it was preferable to have the French maintain control.

Letters to Jefferson and his responses indicate the he and the US were gravely concerned that the problems in Haiti (St. Domingue) would migrate. Jefferson hoped that France would find some way to quell the uprisings and to come to an agreement with the black population and the slave owners much as had occurred in Jamaica.

In July 1793, Jefferson wrote:

Quote:
. I become daily more and more convinced that all the West India islands will remain in the hands of the people of colour, and a total expulsion of the whites sooner or later take place. It is high time we should foresee the bloody scenes which our children certainly, and possibly ourselves (South of Patowmac) have to wade through, and try to avert them.


From what little I have read, it seems that the US was watching to see which way the wind was blowing in Haiti because a law was passed that permitted negotiations with one of the black leaders, Toussaint Louverture. That was in 1799. France was concerned with that development.

Eventually after a protracted rebellion, France gave way to the rebels. Of note, once the sugar islands appeared to be lost, Napoleon could see no benefit in keeping Louisiana and he needed money to finance his war. And so he offered Louisiana to the US.

As for the massacre in 1804, that was ordered by Dessaline, the man who took over after Louverture had been captured. Napoleon had sent forces to reclaim the island and a great battle took place with the rebels being lead by Dessaline. They defeated the French forces in 1803. Dessaline was chosen by his army to lead the country and it was he who would order the killing of the white minority in Haiti.

However, we must acknowledge that the French forces from 1802 until their defeat determined to eliminate the mixed race people, some of whom were free, but were also interested in independence. And they did use genocidal tactics on the mixed race and black people. With that knowledge we may perhaps look at the decision by the Haitians to eliminate the whites in a violent slaughter differently.

The following article examines the musings and thoughts of a variety of French people who felt that genocide and the removal of all blacks and mixed race people was the only solution to the problems. There were even proposals to kill the slave population and then repopulate the island with new workers from Africa.

[Read More]


Poor Haiti, still struggling to establish responsible government and to drag itself out of poverty.

Cheers,

George




Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/1/2022 7:36:49 PM
On this day in 1924, a young firebrand was sentenced to five yours in prison on a charge of treason. His name was Adolf Hitler, and he was to serve only nine months of his sentence, during which he wrote Mein Kampf, sales from which – as a “foundation text” for the Nazis – would ultimately make him a wealthy man.

The Munich Putsch (personally, I find “Beer Hall Putsch” both demeaning and misleading) was only one of many that were attempted in the aftermath of WW1 and of the Versailles Treaty. None were successful, but all served to further weaken Germany’s political growing bifurcation between right and left. On 8 November 1932 Hitler, supported by hundreds of SA and in company with many of his comrades, disrupted a meeting of Bavarian political officials in the Bürgerbräukeller and forced them to proclaim agreement with his plans to march on Berlin. These proclamations of agreement were of course renounced as soon as the officials were released, and the next day as some 3,000 Nazis marched through Munich they were fired on. Fourteen Nazis were killed, and Hitler was arrested on 11 November 1923.

His trial was held in the Bavarian Volksgerichte or People’s Court rather than in the Reich’s Court, which was biased towards nationalist values and were able to determine punishments which could not be challenged or reversed. Erich Ludendorff (as in General of the Infantry Ludendorff, during the war) was acquitted of treason, and Hitler given the minimum possible sentence with early release all but guaranteed.

Cheers,
Brian G

PS: Love some clarification and elucidation from Trevor or others in the know concerning the status of various types of beer hall in Germany. Some – including this most famous beer hall in Munich – were IIUC political meeting places, used because they were amongst the largest halls available to hold public meetings.
B



----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/2/2022 9:27:26 AM
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

4-2 in history, the following,

BTW Canada made the World Cup field for the 1st time in 36 years! The Ukraine may also be in the field? No Russians however!? What say you about this years World Cup!? Congrats to the Canadian Men's team!?

1792 the US passes their coinage act, all coins were gold or silver, including a $10.00 golden eagle! Can you imagine how much 1 is worth today? BTW did Canada & other countries use gold & silver coins ??

1801 Lord Horatio Nelson leads the RN to a victory at Copenhagen! What made Nelson such a great naval commander?? Anyone?

1863 during the Civil War the Bread revolt in Richmond, VA! Why did this happen? Poor Davis leadership? Or Union Blockade?? What say you??

1865 Union wins the battle of Petersburg! Davis flees Richmond, the Confederacy only has days to live!? Comments??

1912 RMS Titanic under goes sea trials, it has no idea it's fate in 2 weeks time? Comments on the ship they said was unsinkable!??

1917 Pres. Woodrow Wilson asks Congress to declare war on Germany! What took him so long?? Anyone?

1921 Albert Einstein comes up with his theory of Relatively, E=MC2, what does it mean?? Also the guy could use a barber?? What say you??

1926 riots between Muslims & Hindus in India! What caused this?? Comments?

1932 Charles Lindbergh turns over $50K ran some for his son! Any comments on this tragedy!?

1935 Scottish Physicist Robert Watson Watt turns his Radar findings over to the British! How may this actually save the RN & Britain!?? What say you??

1942 Jimmy Doolittle sets out with B-25s how will his mission effect WWII in the Pacific!? Comments on the air attack!?? Anyone?

1982 Argentina takes the Falkland Islands! How long will it take the UK to respond!?? Were the entire Commonwealthers involved?? What say you?? Any good sites on the Falklands War??

2019 Canada is warming up faster then any other country according to a federal report! Why is the global warming especially effecting the Great used to be North!? Not funny, very serious! What say you??

More good new topics above!
Comments?
MD


----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/2/2022 5:26:39 PM
Quote:
2019 Canada is warming up faster then any other country according to a federal report! Why is the global warming especially effecting the Great used to be North!? Not funny, very serious! What say you??


There have been a number of reports on this.

Quote:
Canada’s annual average temperature over land has increased by an estimated 1.7 degrees Celsius since 1948, with higher increases in the North, the Prairies, and northern British Columbia, the report noted. In northern Canada, the increase was 2.3 degrees Celsius.
. Global Citizen

The rest of the world averages a .8 C increase.

The reasons given for this disparity are:

1. Canada's land mass is huge and land masses are warming faster than oceans. We have a lot of land to warm.

2. Sea ice and snow reflect a lot of the sun's energy back into space. As we warm, sea ice disappears and snow cover disappears earlier in the year. That means that the sea, formerly protected for longer periods by ice and snow cover, is now able to absorb more of the sun's energy and in turn that warms the ocean water. If the land is not snow covered, it also absorbs more of the sun's energy.
That warming further reduces snow and ice leading to more warming.


Cheers,

George
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/3/2022 9:35:40 PM
On this day in 1946, and running to December 1951, the US Marshall Plan (aka European Recovery Program) was enacted. It was the brainchild of Gen George C Marshall in his post-war role of US Secretary of State.

Let’s get the quibbles on the table and out of the way. One of the great motivations of the Marshall Plan was fear of Communist expansion in post-world Europe. In that aspect, the Marshall Plan was a self-serving US instrument. The Allied approach to controlling the European economy post-war was self-defeating in many ways, stymying opportunities for national recovery. The de facto division between Soviets and Allies in 1945 created a division captured aptly on March 5, 1946, with WSC’s “Iron Curtain” speech.

Allied occupation and anti-Nazi policies were restricting German economic redevelopment. Marshall’s economic plan eased restrictions on German and other nations’ economic capabilities, leading to the industrial revitalization of the European economy over the next five years or more. I would argue that the Marshall Plan was recognized as such a threat by Stalin and his crew that the muscle-flexing of the Berlin Airlift of later 1948, which would last for the better part of a year.

Was the Marshall Plan an attempt to correct failing Allied approaches in occupied Germany, a development to minimize Soviet inroads in western Europe, or recognition of the inability to continue screenings of any German citizen looking for a responsible job? I think it was a bit of all of those. But predominantly, IMHO it is one of the most impressive, effective and honourable commitments the US made in the 20th Century. I wanted to recognize its anniversary.

Cheers
Brian G
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/4/2022 8:56:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
[Read More]

[Read More]

[Read More]

3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

4-2 in history, the following, Not commented on yet, check below topics, & please comment, anyone??

BTW Canada made the World Cup field for the 1st time in 36 years! The Ukraine may also be in the field? No Russians however!? What say you about this years World Cup!? Congrats to the Canadian Men's team!?

1792 the US passes their coinage act, all coins were gold or silver, including a $10.00 golden eagle! Can you imagine how much 1 is worth today? BTW did Canada & other countries use gold & silver coins ??

1801 Lord Horatio Nelson leads the RN to a victory at Copenhagen! What made Nelson such a great naval commander?? Anyone?

1863 during the Civil War the Bread revolt in Richmond, VA! Why did this happen? Poor Davis leadership? Or Union Blockade?? What say you??

1865 Union wins the battle of Petersburg! Davis flees Richmond, the Confederacy only has days to live!? Comments??

1912 RMS Titanic under goes sea trials, it has no idea it's fate in 2 weeks time? Comments on the ship they said was unsinkable!??

1917 Pres. Woodrow Wilson asks Congress to declare war on Germany! What took him so long?? Anyone?

1921 Albert Einstein comes up with his theory of Relatively, E=MC2, what does it mean?? Also the guy could use a barber?? What say you??

1926 riots between Muslims & Hindus in India! What caused this?? Comments?

1932 Charles Lindbergh turns over $50K ran some for his son! Any comments on this tragedy!?

1935 Scottish Physicist Robert Watson Watt turns his Radar findings over to the British! How may this actually save the RN & Britain!?? What say you??

1942 Jimmy Doolittle sets out with B-25s how will his mission effect WWII in the Pacific!? Comments on the air attack!?? Anyone?

1982 Argentina takes the Falkland Islands! How long will it take the UK to respond!?? Were the entire Commonwealthers involved?? What say you?? Any good sites on the Falklands War??

More good new topics above!
Comments?
MD




Check below for new 4-4 topics in history, comments on them??

1581 Francis Drake knighted by Elizabeth I, was he a pirate or a English naval captain?? What say you??

1832 Charles Darwin & HMS Beatle reaches Rio Dr Janario, how was his theory of Evolution accepted??

1865 RE Lee continues to retreat from Grant in Virginia, his men are with out food & supplies Does the ANV still have a chance to win?? Comments anyone??

1896 Gold is discover in the Yukon, how rich is this strike? Does it ultimately benefit Canada? Comments, anyone??

1944 Fr. Gen. Charles de Gaulle forms a new regime with the Communists! Really?? How does this go over? What's your take on Charles?? Anyone?

1949 NATO is formed, can they still aid in stopping Russia in the Ukraine? What say you, what are their chances??

1968 MLK Jr is killed in Memphis! How far back did this set Civil rights back?? Only the good die young!? Very sad, what say you?? Riots broke out in @ 100 US cities!??

1872 in April a Homestead Act is passed in Canada, Can you still homestead in parts of Canada & acquire free land in that way?? Anyone??

Stay safe,
D

BTW thanks Bri.- Marshall Plan, & George, - Global warming, in Canada! In yesterdays posts!!
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/4/2022 11:40:29 PM
Quote:
1968 MLK Jr is killed in Memphis! How far back did this set Civil rights back?? Only the good die young!? Very sad, what say you?? Riots broke out in @ 100 US cities!?

MHOers, will you indulge me just a bit? I’d like to speak frankly.

MLK was not killed. He was assassinated; murdered for beliefs someone found so offensive as to be intolerable. Even in a culture which places gun ownership ahead of human safety, it must IMHO take a broken individual to choose to kill someone.

I’m not a US citizen. In some ways, so I never saw MLK’s campaign as germane to me at the time, in that it was a US campaign for equal rights for black US citizens in a nation that proclaimed a freedom which was at kindest incomplete, and at worst a travesty of the concept of “personal freedom”. At the same time, we’re talking the 1960s, where to an increasing degree as the US “indulged itself” in Vietnam and the Kennedy “Camelot” dream died, the issue of civil rights became but part of a broader issue challenging US social and political values.

Did I mourn MLK’s assassination? Yes indeed. But it was less important to me than the assassination of RFK, because in my head at the time the RFK assassination was a world event. That there were some who might feel the death of MLK would impede or reverse the rising tide of civil rights demands was, to my shame, much less important than that there was someone who would murder a man who wanted to end the war in Vietnam.

I was amazed at Dr King’s moral strength, by his commitment to passive resistance, by his vision. But his issues were, at the time, challenges to US domestic challenges at a time when international issues were defining their continued participation in an increasingly rejected war.

By the time of Dr King’s assassination, I was sufficiently motivated to mourn the man but question his approach. I found various more challenging groups (SDS; Black Panthers; Malcolm X) seemed to have advanced or rewritten Dr King’s message. I wasn’t certain I agreed with these new, more radical groups, and I wasn’t sure I was right to move in that direction, even at the time. But every issue of he Sixties seemed critical at the time, and every hesitation seemed proof that authority wasn’t hearing.

I’m still not sure the riots were directly related to Dr King’s assassination. I think they were the only response possible for those who had seen Dr King as a beacon for the future. IMHO, whether or not he was still a beacon at the time of his death is less than determined. He was, for his generation an the one preceding it, a hope for the future. I sensed at the time, and haven’t really changed my mind, that since blacks were seeing view means of entering white culture as equals, new leaders were pressing for the development of an alternative black culture.

I think the development of an alternative black culture seems to have won. I at least sense that this has been a net loss for the US.

Cheers
Brian G

Lots more stories to tell – some kinda cute in their own way – about that period
----------------------------------
"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/5/2022 12:11:52 PM
Quote:
1935 Scottish Physicist Robert Watson Watt turns his Radar findings over to the British! How may this actually save the RN & Britain!?? What say you??


Watt was a Scot but also a British subject so he was helping his own country.

There are more than a few who suggest that this man's contributions may have won the war in that his knowledge allowed the British and Commonwealth and others to defeat the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain. He was one of the pioneers of radar technology and he proved that a radar defence system on a large scale could work and did work.

He was a meteorologist working for the Meteorological Office in 1915, seeking a way to track storms, but by the '30's he was the head of a team seeking to develop a radar detection system to find incoming aircraft. He was working on a radar detection device during WW1.

In 1935 he presented a paper to the British government indicating just how a radar chain system would work. By 1938, Britain had the first elements of the chain home system up and running. In 1939 he was appointed Scientific Advisor on Telecommunications (SAT) to the Ministry of Aircraft Production.

During the mid 30's he made trips to Germany as a spy to determine whether Germany had developed radar.

During the war, he made a trip to the US to advise them that their air defence systems were inadequate. This was two days after Pearl Harbor.

Churchill made sure to credit Watson-Watt with helping to save Britain during the B of B.

Watson-Watt moved to Canada in 1952. He had been hired by the Canadian Ministry of Defence to advise on the creation of a radar detection system across Canada's north. Canada had been invited to a demonstration of the Watson-Watt detection system as Canada was working on its own cathode-ray oscilloscope detection system since 1926. Major General Andy McNaughton was one of the scientists working on that project. McNaughton would go on to be the initial commander of the Canadian Corps during WW2.

With this knowledge Canada put up some money to allow the production of radar equipment in Canada. A Canadian Crown corporation was set up to manufacture radar equipment and Watson-Watt was grateful. He called Canada, "the radar arsenal of the world."

Watson-Watt did not rest on his laurels. His group in Britain found other applications for radar technology. His group had grown to a department of several thousand. Radar for night fighters was a critical development. They also produced GEE which allowed bombers to pinpoint their location. They invented OBOE which guided bombers to their target. The invented EUREKA which was a system that allowed a land based group to guide planes carrying reinforcements or supplies to their location.

I should say that Watson-Watt had started an electronics consulting company called Adalia and it and he were hired as consultants. I believe that this business went bankrupt in Canada.

By all account he was a terrible businessman and died with very little in his bank account. As an employee of the British government he could not realize a profit from his radar initiatives though they did give him a large sum of money after the war.

Apparently the man could be difficult to work with. He ruffled the feathers of some military men because he spoke bluntly and made demands to further his work. His private life was messy with failed marriages and businesses a part of it.


Quote:
Radar was the biggest single factor contributing to the success of our air operations.”
. Air Chief Marshall Sir Keith Park.

Quote:
"Radar is the only invention without which the war would, in all human probability, have been lost.”
. Sir Stafford Cripps

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/5/2022 12:45:57 PM
Quote:
1872 in April a Homestead Act is passed in Canada, Can you still homestead in parts of Canada & acquire free land in that way?? Anyone??


This legislation was actually called the Dominion Lands Act, 1872. It was designed to promote settlements and immigration to the western provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Part of the legislation included the Dominion Lands Survey in which all of that western land was divided into sections with a section being one mile square. Farmers and ranchers still refer to the number of sections that they farm.

The "Homestead Act" gave any man who wanted free land, 160 acres. He had to cultivate at least 10 of that and to have a home built within 3 years. Forcing the man to "prove up the land" would stop land speculators from taking 160 acres and then sitting on it, waiting to sell for a profit. There was a $10 administrative fee involved but a farmer was not restricted to only his 160 acres. He could buy another section of neighbouring land for another $10 fee. Some farms and ranches out west are massive properties.

The act was amended in 1879 to deal with land claims that preceded the legislation. That meant recognition of First Nations' and Métis rights. Land could not be sold or occupied until these claims were settled.

The Dominion Lands Act lasted until 1918 when the Canadian government introduced a new scheme to help WW 1 veterans get land to settle on.

The Dominion Lands Act was federal legislation but in 1930 the government handed administrative control of unsold lands to the provincial governments.

Homesteading is basically illegal in Canada today. Any land that is not privately owned is known as "crown land". We are allowed to camp on crown land for 21 days but no "squats" are allowed. I have read about people who disappear into crown land and build structures that are completely off the grid of course.

"Crown Land" is a term that refers to all lands that are owned by a provincial or federal government. Essentially it refers to public lands. Less than 11% of Canada is owned privately. 41% is federal crown land while 48% is provincial.

That doesn't mean that crown land is not used in places. Some of it is allocated to First Nations reserves, to the military, and to our national and provincial parks systems. The governments also lease crown land to private businesses in logging and mineral industries.

Crown land then is used for tourism, recreation and economic development.

Periodically, the governments do release some crown land for private sale. But the buyer would have to give assurances that his plans will be beneficial to the province and definitely not infringe on the rights of local indigenous people.

Personally, I have paddled on a lot of rivers and lakes passing through crown land and this is untouched land for the most part. Years ago, we paddled across nearly the full width of Saskatchewan on the Churchill River. 30 days on the water. Beautiful. I am happy that these crown lands exist for all of us to use.

Cheers,

George
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/6/2022 11:23:46 AM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD

4-2 in history, the following, Not commented on yet, check below topics, comment, anyone??

BTW Canada made the World Cup field for the 1st time in 36 years! The Ukraine may also be in the field? No Russians however!? What say you about this years World Cup!? Congrats to the Canadian Men's team!?

1792 the US passes their coinage act, all coins were gold or silver, including a $10.00 golden eagle! Can you imagine how much 1 is worth today? BTW did Canada & other countries use gold & silver coins ??

1801 Lord Horatio Nelson leads the RN to a victory at Copenhagen! What made Nelson such a great naval commander?? Anyone?

1863 during the Civil War the Bread revolt in Richmond, VA! Why did this happen? Poor Davis leadership? Or Union Blockade?? What say you??

1865 Union wins the battle of Petersburg! Davis flees Richmond, the Confederacy only has days to live!? Comments??

1912 RMS Titanic under goes sea trials, it has no idea it's fate in 2 weeks time? Comments on the ship they said was unsinkable!??

1917 Pres. Woodrow Wilson asks Congress to declare war on Germany! What took him so long?? Anyone?

1921 Albert Einstein comes up with his theory of Relatively, E=MC2, what does it mean?? Also the guy could use a barber?? What say you??

1926 riots between Muslims & Hindus in India! What caused this?? Comments?

1932 Charles Lindbergh turns over $50K ran some for his son! Any comments on this tragedy!?

1935 Scottish Physicist Robert Watson Watt turns his Radar findings over to the British! How may this actually save the RN & Britain!?? What say you??

1942 Jimmy Doolittle sets out with B-25s how will his mission effect WWII in the Pacific!? Comments on the air attack!?? Anyone?

1982 Argentina takes the Falkland Islands! How long will it take the UK to respond!?? Were the entire Commonwealthers involved?? What say you?? Any good sites on the Falklands War??

More good new topics above!
Comments?
MD




Check below for new 4-4 topics in history, most not yet commented on?? Anything else?

1581 Francis Drake knighted by Elizabeth I, was he a pirate or a English naval captain?? What say you??

1832 Charles Darwin & HMS Beatle reaches Rio Dr Janario, how was his theory of Evolution accepted??

1865 RE Lee continues to retreat from Grant in Virginia, his men are with out food & supplies Does the ANV still have a chance to win?? Comments anyone??

1896 Gold is discover in the Yukon, how rich is this strike? Does it ultimately benefit Canada? Comments, anyone??

1944 Fr. Gen. Charles de Gaulle forms a new regime with the Communists! Really?? How does this go over? What's your take on Charles?? Anyone?

1949 NATO is formed, can they still aid in stopping Russia in the Ukraine? What say you, what are their chances??

1968 MLK Jr is killed in Memphis! How far back did this set Civil rights back?? Only the good die young!? Very sad, what say you?? Riots broke out in @ 100 US cities!??

1872 in April a Homestead Act is passed in Canada, Can you still homestead in parts of Canada & acquire free land in that way?? Anyone??

Stay safe,
D



Brian,

I for the most part agree with your take on MLK Jr. & Civil Rights in the US, it's unfortunate even today there hasn't been much progress!?

George,

Fascinating posts on both Radar developments in the Commonwealth, & homesteading in Canada! Too bad you could have gotten free land!?

Check 4-6 in history?

1652, Cape Colony formed by the Dutch in S. Africa! Amazing how Europeans just claimed territory, not even thinking about the various natives that lived there! What say you about this attitude!? Anyone?

1808 John Jacob Aster founds the American Fir Company, what effect will it have on the development of N. America!? Comments?

1886 city of Vancouver BC, incorporated, why did Vancouver, grow by such leaps & bounds??

1945 areas of Holland liberated by the Canadian Army! Any details??

Carry on,
MD
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"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/6/2022 8:56:35 PM
Quote:
1945 areas of Holland liberated by the Canadian Army! Any details??


True. The 1st Canadian Army happened to be positioned on the far left of the allied advance after the Battle of Normandy. And that meant that they would be responsible for taking the port cities in France and continuing an advance into Belgium and then Holland and Germany.

But there were also British, American and Polish troops in parts of Holland. It just happens that the Canadians liberated a good deal of it. As to why the Canadians were out on the far left, that's another story. Historian John English suggests that it is because Monty did not have faith in CDN Gen. Crerar to be able to manage an army in combat.

That did not mean that the fighting was easy in any way. Canada was assigned primary responsibility for opening the port of Antwerp in Belgium by defeating the German forces in the Scheldt. It was one of the more important battles of the war and costly. Relief of the Dutch cities and towns came at a price especially because there was a reluctance to use artillery against towns in the Netherlands if the Canadians knew that civilians were there. On the east side of the Rhine, German civilians were not shown the same courtesy.

MD your post refers directly to 1945 and since this is April, I must assume that your reference is to the liberation of the western part of the Netherlands. By late 1944, the SW part of Netherlands had already been liberated by the Canadians, British and Americans.

By March of 1945 the allies, including elements of the Canadian Army in Operation Veritable had already entered Germany. The northern part of Netherlands was still occupied and so the Canadian Army attacked here as well.

From this map you can see the advance of the 1st Canadian Army. You will note that the western part of Netherlands is still occupied.



The people in western Netherlands were starving at this stage of the war. The German army had taken all of their food and restricted travel so that farmers could not move products along canals into the cities.

The Canadian Army was ready to attack but were ordered to stop at the Grebbe Line. By this time, the 1st Canadian Army was whole. The 1st Corps had returned from Italy and joined the rest of the army. For the first time in our history, two corps were fighting together.

And so the army stopped at the Grebbe Line as negotiations were underway to allow food to be transported by truck or to be dropped from planes into western Holland. Places like Amsterdam and Rotterdam and The Hague were still awaiting liberation and people were starving to death in western Netherlands. The Dutch speak of the Honger Winter of 44/45 and the large number of people whom starved to death. I have read estimates that over 20,000 perished from hunger.

On April 28, 1945 a truce was arranged between the German forces in western Holland and the Canadians facing them on a line running from Wageningen through Amersfoort to the North Sea. This was the Grebbe Line.



And shortly, food drops were arranged (Operations Manna and Chowhound) and by May 2, Canadian Army trucks were carrying goods into western Netherlands. 1000 tons of food was actually moved into this area by truck.

The Canadian Army didn't arrive at Amsterdam until May 8.

The relationship between Netherlands and Canada is strong and has stood the test of time. 7600 Canadians died to liberate that country and their graves are tended by school children who learn how and by whom they were liberated.

For safety the Crown Princess Juliana of Netherlands and her daughters had moved to Canada in 1940 and lived in Ottawa for the duration of the war. Her husband, Prince Bernhard stayed in Britain where he was a liaison officer and and RAF pilot. He did come to Canada several times to visit his family.

In 1942 it was announced that Juliana was expecting and if the child was a boy, he would be next in line to the throne. This was a problem for Netherlands as that child would have to have Dutch citizenship alone . So the room in the Ottawa Civic Hospital where Juliana was to give birth was declared to be "extra-territorial" so that the child would be born with Dutch Citizenship alone. It was only a gesture of course but the Dutch have not forgotten that act of kindness.

The Netherlanders show similar gratitude to all of the allied forces that passed through their country and liberated parts of it. But they do seem to have a special place in their hearts for Canadians.

Cheers,

George

Dick Evick
Waco TX USA
Posts: 390
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/7/2022 10:27:11 AM
1862 Battle of Shiloh. Casualties shocked the nation as armies clashed. Grant gains a reputation.

Dick.
Phil Andrade
London  UK
Posts: 6509
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/7/2022 1:13:20 PM
Quote:
1862 Battle of Shiloh. Casualties shocked the nation as armies clashed. Grant gains a reputation.

Dick.



This was the second day of the battle, and considerably the lesser of the two.

The first day really transcended.

No wonder the South never smiled after that !

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!" "That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress." Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/8/2022 7:17:36 PM
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Check 4-6 in history? & 4-7, & 4-8!?

1652, Cape Colony formed by the Dutch in S. Africa! Amazing how Europeans just claimed territory, not even thinking about the various natives that lived there! What say you about this attitude!? Anyone?

1808 John Jacob Aster founds the American Fir Company, what effect will it have on the development of N. America!? Comments?

1886 city of Vancouver BC, incorporated, why did Vancouver, grow by such leaps & bounds??

1945 areas of Holland liberated by the Canadian Army! Any details??

Here's 4-7 note from April history, in 1968!

In 1968, with what will be over 100 US cities about to start Rioting over MLK Jr's Assassination! & Just after hearing of the MLK Jr. Tragedy, Robert F Kennedy had the courage to go into inner city Indianapolis & inform the people there that MLK Jr. was Assassinated, & that King preached non violence, & his own family had also met with A simular tragedy! I don't know of any other well known political figure who would ever even try such a dangerous but sympathetic message. And actually calm the situation. It was indeed courageous! Brian Grafton was right the loss of JFK was indeed tragic for our nation! What say you??
Does anyone have the link on his speech that day?? & could post it, my tablet won't let me post it, it was indeed heartfelt, & courageous! Thanks!

& In 4-8 in history these events occurred.

1974 Hank Aaron of Atlanta Braves breaks Babe Ruth's HR record of 714 career HR's, he receives racist death threats in reaction by some!? Comments?

2009 Somali Pirates take over Maersk Tanker from Alabama, Tom Banks made a suspenseful movie on it. Comments on modern piracy? Anyone??

2013 Britains 1st female Prime Minister dies! Comments on her life & times? Anyone??

Take care, & Carry on,
MD

----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/8/2022 9:01:05 PM
Quote:
1652, Cape Colony formed by the Dutch in S. Africa! Amazing how Europeans just claimed territory, not even thinking about the various natives that lived there! What say you about this attitude!? Anyone?


Those same Europeans were doing the same thing in North America. Québec city was established in 1608. And the European powers were beginning a period of imperialism.

The indigenous populations of any of the valued territories were more of an obstacle to possession than anything else.

And now we seek to mend fences with the indigenous people, to apologize and to show greater respect. But it is difficult to ignore the fact that indigenous people were collateral damage as the imperialistic nations established their colonies.

Cheers,

George

Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4811
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/8/2022 10:50:22 PM
Bugger 1652, at least to some degree. Look to 1493. That was the year Pope Alexander VI presented a Papal Bull which divided the newly-discovered world into two halves – one half to be governed by Spain and the other half by Portugal. In the Church’s mind, this was fully within papal gifting. The very concept of such a bull displays the arrogance of what was at the time merely one of many faiths, beliefs or religions. The Papal Bull of 1493 was the first of two papal decrees. Significantly, the decree was made in the name of the Church, and part of the understanding was that new territory would be controlled by either Spain or Portugal but on condition it was converted to the Church of Rome.

Even before the Protestant revolution of the early 1500s, northern European nations were bridling at the papal determination. Giovanni Caboto, an Italian pilot sailing under commission to Henry VII (and long called John Cabot) explored the northeast coast of the New World, but without the power of the Church behind him. But the element of Christian arrogance and dominance still prevailed. Wiki notes:Quote:
On 5 March 1496 Henry VII gave Cabot and his three sons letters patent[2][25] with the following charge for exploration:
... free authority, faculty and power to sail to all parts, regions, and coasts of the eastern, western and northern sea, under our banners, flags, and ensigns, with five ships or vessels of whatsoever burden and quality they may be, and with so many and with such mariners and men as they may wish to take with them in the said ships, at their own proper costs and charges, to find, discover and investigate whatsoever islands, countries, regions or provinces of heathens and infidels, in whatsoever part of the world placed, which before this time were unknown to all Christians.


By the 1650s, the great schism between Rome and Protestants was more than a century old. The Dutch, long under the power of Spain but one of the centres of radical religious belief, were increasingly becoming an ocean-going nation. England was at the height of religious radicalism, having overthrown its hereditary monarchy and established a commonwealth based on radical protestant principles. They would be in conflict with the Dutch within a decade over increasingly global trade routes and potential colonies. Both nations, however, were sufficiently radical in their Christian beliefs that they applied values very similar to those of Pope Alexander’s in 1493: obliterate heathendom and compel adherence to Christian values.

Lotsa folks have discussed this, on MHO and elsewhere. Many will argue that, whatever damage was done to native cultures, they were introduced to European laws and values. And that’s often true. It certainly is in the colonization of Canada. In the past two years, we’ve been finding hundreds of graves of indigenous children at “residential schools”. Native children lost touch with their families, were stripped of their birth names, were punished for speaking their own language, were disallowed their religion. And when they died, probably more from disease and benign neglect as much as cruelty or starvation, they were buried in often unmarked and unrecorded graves.

In a hugely ironic twist, just this past week Pope Francis offered the first formal apology to Canada’s indigenous peoples for their treatment in Catholic residential schools. After only some 509 years, a Pope has apologized for a behaviour initiated by Papal Bull so long ago.

And by the way, I don’t think such apologies have been given by the Protestant sects that also had control of other residential schools in Canada.

This might seem to be a rather disconnected rant. But although it ain’t an expanded or well-documented thesis, I stand by my major premise. The Christianity which swallowed and directed European values and beliefs was sufficiently arrogant and unresponsive to feel it could destroy any values which didn’t mirror those of a harsh, joyless faith.

Cheers,
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Steve Clements
Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 910
Joined: 2004
This day in World History! Continued
4/9/2022 11:54:35 AM
Hi Brian,

The United Church “apologized” for their involvement in residential schools in 1986.

s.c.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/9/2022 1:17:03 PM
Quote:
Hi Brian,

The United Church “apologized” for their involvement in residential schools in 1986.

s.c.



And the Anglican Church apologized in 1993.

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We have an aggressive immigration programme in Canada. It pains me when new Canadians may only recite the excesses and evil of the residential school system. "You stole this land from the Indians", is a popular refrain.

Yes the country was colonized and much of it was settled at the expense of the FN people. We have much to do to repair our relationship with these disparate nations.

But it is worth remembering that there was and is great appeal to this country and that we all have benefitted from the work done by the settlers who came before us. That includes the newest of immigrants and other Canadians who came before. The FN and Métis and Inuit?? Not so much but they have not been completely cast aside either.

Cheers,

George

Michigan Dave
Muskegon MI USA
Posts: 8313
Joined: 2006
This day in World History! Continued
4/9/2022 7:44:36 PM
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3 perpetual sites, check for topics.?
cheers,
MD


Check out April 9th, in history!? Please comment on these, or something new, you found!??

1682, Robert La Salle claims Louisiana for France, again Europeans taking natives land! Didn't anyone respect their lands?? Comments?

1784 The British ratify the Treaty of Paris to end the Revolutionary War, how did this effect the future Canada??

1865 Robert E. Lee surrenders @ 27,000 troops of the ANV at Appomattox Court house! Could Lee have continued the fight using guerilla warfare!? What say you?? Anyone?

1869 the Hudson's Bay Company cedes its lands to Canada!? That's not fair to the US, is it?? Anyone?

1917 Vimy Ridge in France is stormed by Canadian troops! Anyone with details of this battle??

1942 US& Philippineo troops surrender to the Japanese, so will begin the Bataan death march! Does this constitute a war crime against Japan?? What say you??

1945 the Kreigmarine Battleship Admiral Sheer sunk by RAF at Kiel, how tough was it to sink? Any details? Anyone??

Hang in there!
MD
----------------------------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/9/2022 8:13:13 PM
Quote:
1869 the Hudson's Bay Company cedes its lands to Canada!? That's not fair to the US, is it?? Anyone?


By 1867, there was a Canada. The land that HBC sold, not ceded, to Canada was fully within the boundary of Canada.

So I don't know what the sale had to do with the US unless one is a believer in Manifest Destiny.



The Hudson Bay Co. was granted control of a huge chunk of North America by the British Crown. The company was granted a charter with terms dictated by the crown. The section was called Rupert's Land because Prince Rupert was the first governor, and from 1670 to 1870 it was the commercial heartland of the HBC empire.

By the time of the sale to Canada, the heyday of the fur trade was over and HBC was looking to sell. Truthfully, they could have gotten more from a sale to the US but the British government disapproved of that and coerced the company into selling Rupert's Land to Canada for $1.5 million dollars. As I recall, the British government floated a loan to the government of Canada to assure that the sale went through.

Consider that Rupert's Land, once owned by Canada would expand Québec and Ontario to the north and be used to create Manitoba and part of Saskatchewan and mostof Alberta. It was a critical juncture in our history and the sale of that land assured that the US could not simply move northward without violating the sovereignty of Canada.

Cheers,

George
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 13550
Joined: 2009
This day in World History! Continued
4/9/2022 9:08:32 PM
Quote:
1784 The British ratify the Treaty of Paris to end the Revolutionary War, how did this effect the future Canada??


The treaty established that 13 of the British colonies had become an independent nation. The remaining British colonies that had declined to be a part of the insurrection were the remains of British North America. They were content to remain part of the British Empire and to share the freedoms accorded British subjects.

In 1867 three of those colonies became the Dominion of Canada. It was an evolutionary process and did not require a rebellion to gain that status.

Cheers,

George
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