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morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
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Posts: 3293
Joined: 2007
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are they still laughing?
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Now that the brilliance of doing away with nuclear power plants, and going to windmills and solar.....and relying on Russian gas pipelines appears to be about to produce the calamity only cultists and followers of Greta could not for-see....is the German UN delegation laughing off warnings now. Are they amused at the prospects of elderly and impoverished citizens freezing this winter?
Never could I imagine the level of strategic dunderhead ism that the western world has embarked upon.
It`s about to get very real.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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kaii
Oslo
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Posts: 3140
Joined: 2010
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are they still laughing?
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It will be a bumpy ride, that is for sure.
Going cold turkey on Russian gas is about the same as quitting drugs, I am guessing.
Having said that, it may appear that the Germans are in a better position than some critics are claiming. The winter will give the definite answer I suppose.
Quote:But while Russian gas accounted for 55% of Germany's consumption in 2021, this has been squashed down to just 9.5% this August. Gas imports from Norway and the Netherlands now make up the brunt of Germany's supply.
[Read More]
K
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vpatrick
MA
MA USA
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Posts: 2474
Joined: 2020
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The Germans laughed at Trump when he warned them not to be dependent on Russian fossil fuel as they shut down their Nuke plants, they also gave Trump the finger when he told them to increase their military spending. Now the Russians are shutting off the gas and the Germans have increased their Military spending by 100 billion because they have too. Now the Germans are cutting down their forests to heat their homes this winter, climate change be damned.
vpatrick
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Brian Grafton
Victoria
BC Canada
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Posts: 4720
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While I get the general discussion Morris is raising (skipping the unnecessary jabs at Greta), and while I believe German policy was short-sighted concerning national power sources for heating, light and energy, I’m not finding anything to laugh about. Germany will indeed face a dire winter or two, and some of that must rest with decisions made by the Merkel government.
Reliance on Russian oil, gas or the like gives folks a chance to laugh at a German error in policy, but the risk factors were much lower during the establishment of access to Russian fuel than they have become since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I mean, where did such Russian aggression fit in a broader expectations?
Again, without disagreeing with Morris’s major comment, should we blame, mock, laugh about or deem political the severe hunger which will occur across many second- or third-world nations because of Russian viciousness over Ukrainian harvests.
Yes, I think at least some Germans will suffer because of earlier decisions by their government. But shouldn’t we also be talking about ways in which nations other than Germany are being effected by Russian aggression and EU/NATO sanctions?
GB does not have a direct pipeline from from Gazprom to London. Their heating bills are rising to a rate about 400% higher than a year ago. Their government seems to have no solution to a crisis at least as challenging as that facing the Germans.
I haven’t read any argument saying humans are bright enough to recognize they are killing themselves, and are willing to accepted masive changes in their lives in order to let there be a generation which can be born in 2040. I’m in support of German efforts to balance their own comfort against the threat of further Russian aggression.
This shouldn’t be about who looks like an arsehole now, IMHO. It should, perhaps, be yet one more warning that strife between nations is a negative factor in what is a human crisis. No nation is capable of going carbon-neutral, if that still means anything. We’re way beyond that. We’re dealing with some of the last barriers before climate collapse. Germany’s issue is but one small part of the larger question. I’m foregetting how to laugh.
Cheers,
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly.
"The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
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scoucer
Berlin
Germany
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Posts: 3224
Joined: 2010
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I guess I´m the only guy who can really answer all this because I live here. As always, it is a lot more complicated as it seems. There are a lot of things thrown in that actually just do not pass together. There appears to be definitely some illusions about what is going on here. I´ve been wanting to answer this for some time but I´ve been very busy. These are my last days before I retire so I´ve been winding quite a few things up. So watch this space. Unless I´ve got no time because I´m gathering wood 
Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie
Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
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kaii
Oslo
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Quote:
Reliance on Russian oil, gas or the like gives folks a chance to laugh at a German error in policy,
Cheers,
Brian G
One aspect is that those that laugh are the same people that were arguing that Russia is no threat and that Putin as a man one can do business with...
K
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
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Posts: 13378
Joined: 2009
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I find this frustrating. I think that this is an important discussion but I am not privy to any posts from Morris. If someone could just give me a synopsis of what the original post said, then perhaps I could understand fully what you fellows are talking about.
I'm not asking for anyone to editorialize, criticize, reject or dismiss his statement but to tell me just what the hell this thread is about.
George
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
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Posts: 13378
Joined: 2009
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German Chancellor Olaf Scholz was in Canada last week. He and PM Trudeau met and have committed to some sort of German investment in the generation of hydrogen power produced by clean hydro electricity.
But it is unusual that a man of the Chancellor's stature would attend what was essentially a trade mission, isn't it?
The speculation is that Chancellor Scholz was actually seeking access to Canada's natural gas supplies. PM Trudeau was non-committal because he knows that the delivery of Canada's land locked oil and gas supplies to the east coast for delivery to Europe is impossible right now.
And politically, it is a non-starter. The people of Québec, awash in inexpensive and green hydro-electric power, have indicated clearly that they will not accept a gas pipeline travelling from the west and through their province to facilities on Canada's east coast.
The relationship between Québec and the Rest of Canada is often fraught with tension and no PM's and especially a Québec PM whose riding is in Montréal, can run the risk of poking the separatiste bear.
I must add however that many of the people of British Columbia do not wish to see an expansion of pipeline service to ports on the west coast either. The transportation of gas from the Pacific coast to Germany would be expensive I think though we do export LNG to China and Japan.
And so relief in the form of natural gas from Canada for Germany and other European nations is not likely to occur.
Cheers,
George
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Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
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Posts: 908
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Hi George,
Pretty sure that Canada has zero current LNG capability….tho a terminal is currently under construction at Kitimat on the West Coast.
And Quebec is arguably being hypocritical. Quebec has zero issue with pipe lines that bring natural gas into the province i.e.importing natural gas from both western Canada and from the United States. But Quebec is remarkably [?] Uncooperative when it comes to transporting western gas to the Maritimes etc.
As an aside, I would note that the price of natural gas in Canada, at least in the spot market, appears to have almost tripled since the beginning of this year. Curious as to what impact that is going to have on gas consuming consumers in both Quebec and Ontario. Quebec may have a lot of cheap electricity, but Quebecers still heat their homes – primarily – with natural gas.
And interesting that nat gas prices are spiking, given that we have no LNG capacity, and cannot take advantage of what is currently happening in Europe. I am guessing, but don’t know, that we are exporting natural gas to the US, who does have the ability to liquify natural gas.
s.c.
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scoucer
Berlin
Germany
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Posts: 3224
Joined: 2010
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Quote:Quote:
Reliance on Russian oil, gas or the like gives folks a chance to laugh at a German error in policy,
Cheers,
Brian G
One aspect is that those that laugh are the same people that were arguing that Russia is no threat and that Putin as a man one can do business with... K
Agreed Kai. The right wing, neo-liberals, of the CDU ( conservative) Party.
Trevor
Edit. And the choir leader of those, Friedrich "Let the markets decide" Merz, is now the CDU Party Chairman. After he lost the leadership contest against Merkel, he went back to work in the finance sector. As soon as he heard she was retiring, he was back.
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie
Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
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George
Centre Hastings
ON Canada
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Posts: 13378
Joined: 2009
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Quote: Hi George,
Pretty sure that Canada has zero current LNG capability….tho a terminal is currently under construction at Kitimat on the West Coast.
And Quebec is arguably being hypocritical. Quebec has zero issue with pipe lines that bring natural gas into the province i.e.importing natural gas from both western Canada and from the United States. But Quebec is remarkably [?] Uncooperative when it comes to transporting western gas to the Maritimes etc.
As an aside, I would note that the price of natural gas in Canada, at least in the spot market, appears to have almost tripled since the beginning of this year. Curious as to what impact that is going to have on gas consuming consumers in both Quebec and Ontario. Quebec may have a lot of cheap electricity, but Quebecers still heat their homes – primarily – with natural gas.
And interesting that nat gas prices are spiking, given that we have no LNG capacity, and cannot take advantage of what is currently happening in Europe. I am guessing, but don’t know, that we are exporting natural gas to the US, who does have the ability to liquify natural gas.
s.c.
Hi Steve. I always defer to you when the subject of economics comes up so I stand to be corrected.
However, I did believe that we were exporting LNG to China and Japan from a facility in Delta. I was aware of the big project at Kitimat but was confused. I thought that it was up and running. Wrong on that count.
As for Québec, according to StatsCan, two out of three homes in that province are heated by electricity. 66% of homes are heated by baseboard electric. 94% of Québec's electricity is generated through hydro-electric facilities. All those rivers flowing through the province give them a leg up on the rest of us.
Québec does use LNG but mostly for industrial applications amounting to 5% of the total Canadian demand. And I believe that Québec has banned the exploration for gas and oil in the province.
As well, oil heating systems may not be installed in any new construction in Québec. Two years from now, replacement of a heating system in an existing home or facility must not use fossil fuels as the heating source.
Energy generation by fuel type, PQ
Meanwhile, none of this helps the Europeans. We do ship natural gas which is really just methane to the US for processing and they produce tons of the stuff. With our contribution and theirs, is there enough to increase shipments of LNG to Europe?
Cheers,
George
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Larry Purtell
Little Meadows
PA USA
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Posts: 1743
Joined: 2004
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are they still laughing?
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Quote: Now that the brilliance of doing away with nuclear power plants, and going to windmills and solar.....and relying on Russian gas pipelines appears to be about to produce the calamity only cultists and followers of Greta could not for-see....is the German UN delegation laughing off warnings now. Are they amused at the prospects of elderly and impoverished citizens freezing this winter?
Never could I imagine the level of strategic dunderhead ism that the western world has embarked upon.
It`s about to get very real.
Respects, Morris
I've been following this thread with great interest. My question is how long can Russia forfeit the income from shutting off the flow of gas? Is this not a large percentage of their national income? Is this a long term shut down or just a preview of what could happen?
Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
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Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
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Posts: 908
Joined: 2004
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are they still laughing?
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Hi George,
Thanks for correcting my “assumption” that most Quebec residents heated with nat gas. That was my limited experience when I lived there-:). I even had a nat gas stove and oven….
I never would have guessed that baseboard heaters were so dominant….
s.c.
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Steve Clements
Toronto
ON Canada
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Posts: 908
Joined: 2004
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are they still laughing?
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Larry,
I read somewhere recently that Russian oil exports generate roughly ten times the revenue that nat gas exports do.
In other words, as long as they can continue to sell crude oil to India etc., and do so at inflated prices, they can afford to take a small hit on natural gas sales, if it irritates their European “enemies” sufficiently :-)
s.c.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
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Posts: 3293
Joined: 2007
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Trevor, this isn`t a 'this party" or "that party is to blame" scenario. Our snobbish elites, globalists, and charlatans of all persuasions have had us listen and follow scammers and cultists, who tell the masses, " you must make severe sacrifice and endure economic hardships or the oceans will rise in ten years," while they ride private jets everywhere, vacation on diesel guzzling yachts......and purchase multi-million properties and mansions RIGHT ON THE BEACHES in our most exclusive places.
We have allowed our strategic thinking to be obliterated by cultists. And it is not just in the area of energy....food is under attack and farmers and growers are the next "evil fossil fuel peddlers.
An old sod is " never eat your seed corn." Well, we have allowed these morons to convince us that doing so is a good thing for the planet...and it is going to be severe for a great many people. And it didn`t have to be this way.
And we were`t just led down a strategic cul de sac in the rush to "rid us of climate change"....we were then led to alternatives that further deliver us all to the Communist Chinese, they did not suffer fools, but thought with vision and enterprise and strategic discipline . You want more wind turbines (that don`t store energy even if the wind is blowing enough) pay thru the nose for them made in China. For the same length of time that Russia was advertising its desire to leverage gas and oil energy and lord them over Europe, China has been buying up the production capabilities for mining cobalt and lithium.....for your EV`s. You want solar panels on your roofs and gobbling up farm and agricultural lands everywhere they can, good, they come at a high price from our friends in China who have cornered that market too.
The scammers we listened to have taken us off of what worked for our strategic betterment, and put us squarely in the targets of Russia and China....who don`t listen to no nothing 16 year olds...and fraudsters like Al Gore.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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mikecmaps
CAMARILLO
CA USA
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Posts: 214
Joined: 2020
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09052022
Group,
The original poster, in first and second posts, offers little more than zealous aspersion
directed to interests or feelings instead of principles or policies which adds little to understanding.
Naming calling may give limited satisfaction but carries no argument or issue.
“Dunderhead” “cultists” “Elites” “globalists” “charlatans” carry the fallacy of reversibility and irony in
that they may be equally applied to “capitalists” “corporatists” “Big Oil” etc.
Suggesting evidence of confused understanding, possibly.
“brilliance of doing away with nuclear power plants” apparently ignores at least five major nuclear accidents
in the 65 years since nuclear power began.
And after 65 years we still have no effective way to dispose of spent nuclear fuel. Pu-239 half-life of 24,000 years
Chernobyl Nuclear Disaster 1986 INES Level 7 (7 highest)
Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Japan 2011 INES Level 7
Kyshtym Nuclear Disaster Russia 1957 INES Level 6
Windscale Fire Nuclear Disaster Sellafield, UK 1957 INES Level 5
Three Mile Island Nuclear Accident Pennsylvania, USA 1979 INES Level 5
And exposure of Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and as yet insecure.
2022 more than a quarter million metric tons of highly radioactive waste sits in storage near
nuclear power plants and weapons production facilities worldwide, with over 90,000 metric tons
in the US. About equal to 10,000 warheads.
And growing - the nuclear reactors in the U.S. produce more than 2,000 metric tons of radioactive waste
a year, and most of it ends up sitting on-site because there is nowhere else to put it.
Experience shows 5 accidents in 54 years, 1957-2011, about one each 11 years.
If we manage nuclear power well for the next 150 years we may expect 14-15 major nuclear accidents.
Yes a cost benefit on nuclear power is prudent, but mindful that a single event has the potential to destroy life as we know it. so far so good, thankfully.
Yours, Mike collie.
mikecmaps
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scoucer
Berlin
Germany
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Posts: 3224
Joined: 2010
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Quote: Trevor, this isn`t a 'this party" or "that party is to blame" scenario. Our snobbish elites, globalists, and charlatans of all persuasions have had us listen and follow scammers and cultists, who tell the masses, " you must make severe sacrifice and endure economic hardships or the oceans will rise in ten years," while they ride private jets everywhere, vacation on diesel guzzling yachts......and purchase multi-million properties and mansions RIGHT ON THE BEACHES in our most exclusive places.
We have allowed our strategic thinking to be obliterated by cultists. And it is not just in the area of energy....food is under attack and farmers and growers are the next "evil fossil fuel peddlers.
An old sod is " never eat your seed corn." Well, we have allowed these morons to convince us that doing so is a good thing for the planet...and it is going to be severe for a great many people. And it didn`t have to be this way.
And we were`t just led down a strategic cul de sac in the rush to "rid us of climate change"....we were then led to alternatives that further deliver us all to the Communist Chinese, they did not suffer fools, but thought with vision and enterprise and strategic discipline . You want more wind turbines (that don`t store energy even if the wind is blowing enough) pay thru the nose for them made in China. For the same length of time that Russia was advertising its desire to leverage gas and oil energy and lord them over Europe, China has been buying up the production capabilities for mining cobalt and lithium.....for your EV`s. You want solar panels on your roofs and gobbling up farm and agricultural lands everywhere they can, good, they come at a high price from our friends in China who have cornered that market too.
The scammers we listened to have taken us off of what worked for our strategic betterment, and put us squarely in the targets of Russia and China....who don`t listen to no nothing 16 year olds...and fraudsters like Al Gore.
Respects, Morris
I hear you Morris. And I agree it is not a party thing. I was merely pointing out to Kai who it was doing the laughing. It was not "the Germans" or even Frau Merkel.
As I said, it is an emotional time for me. In a few days I will be retiring after over 30 years as a therapist. I am saying farewell to many clients I have treated for over a decade, most of whom are mentally handicapped (or whatever it is they call it these days ) and mentally ill, usually both. Not easy. And when I can sit down in peace Iĺl be happy to say what is going on in Germany. I think you may be surprised on how much we agree.
Respects Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie
Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
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jahenders
Colorado Springs
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Posts: 681
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Not just other countries but environmentalists and politicians within the US.
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/30/1119904819/nuclear-power-environmentalists-california-germany-japan
Even wackos like Newsom, have finally had reality beat it into their heads that we are nowhere near being able to do zero-emissions power with just solar, wind, hyrdo. Nuclear is a vital part of that mix and probably should be for at least several decades.
Unfortunately, the largely misguided opposition from these groups in the past (and some still now) has led to dozens of nuclear power projects to be scrapped, or not started over the last several decades. So, now many countries and US states are, quite literally, 'behind the power curve.' CA is now having to tell people not to plug in their electric cars while at the same time saying they're going to ban the sale of gas-powered cars.
Jim
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Phil Andrade
London
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Perhaps Don Quixote was not mad to tilt at windmills after all !
Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"
"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."
Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes
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jahenders
Colorado Springs
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If he did it today, he could claim he was protecting all the birds killed by windmills (about 500K per year and growing).
Jim
Quote:Perhaps Don Quixote was not mad to tilt at windmills after all !
Regards, Phil
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
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Posts: 3293
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Quote:If he did it today, he could claim he was protecting all the birds killed by windmills (about 500K per year and growing). Jim Quote: Perhaps Don Quixote was not mad to tilt at windmills after all !
Regards, Phil
And that is the rub isn`t it. Hundreds of thousands of dead birds, many protected species, from "green energy wind turbines. Ethanol, a " green energy " alternative additive to gas.....yet it costs more carbon outlay to produce the corn than the gas....and burns hotter than gas which can damage small engine carburetors.
We will go "all electric vehicles"....but can hardly produce the electricity to keep the grid working to heat and power our homes. And, from the strategic standpoint, wind turbine production.....CHINA. Solar panel production....CHINA. Lithium battery production for those electric vehicles......CHINA. Mine production for raw materials for battery production.....CHINA. Get rid of the Nuclear power and get natural gas from pipelines.......RUSSIA. Anybody see a dangerous and potentially deadly pattern. Anybody in western nations awake! Anyone at the damn Pentagon not woke and dumbstruck silent! just wondering.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
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The Greenies count the dead birds around the wind mills but not the dead birds everywhere. Lying with numbers.
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NYGiant
home
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Pesky facts.
Estimates of up to a million or more birds a year are killed by turbines in the US but that is far exceeded by collisions with communications towers (6.5 million); power lines, (25 million); windows (up to 1 billion); and cats (1.3 to 4.0 billion) and those lost due to habitat loss, pollution and climate change (American Bird Conservancy, Nature). Even if there were twenty times more wind turbines, enough to supply the US with electricity, the number of birds killed, assuming no improvement in wind turbine design, would be about 10 million--still far less than most other causes of bird deaths.
https://www.sierraclub.org/michigan/wind-turbines-and-birds-and-bats
Pesky thing those pesky facts.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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Not pesky. But, seems apples and orangy to compare wind turbines, how ever many there are, to the billions of windows in the country, the millions of miles of power lines, and the many com towers...all of which are stationary, and don`t swat Golden Eagles out of the sky.
Is that the same Sierra Club that has no problem claiming that an occasional mud puddle in a farmer`s field is a "wetland"......but has nothing much to protest when our southern border ranches, federal lands and state parks are turned into an impropriety land fill and garbage dump by hordes of illegal immigrants and drug mules just dumpin` their trash in the country they love and respect so much? ...Just akin`
Re4spects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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A collision is a collision, be it against a stationary object or one that is rotating. No one is asking that power lines, and communication powers be taken down and they account for far more bird deaths.
I don't see how illegal aliens fit into the discussion. If you want to discuss ,I can compare the sending of people seeking asylum in the US to New York and Massachusetts to the racist tactic of the 1960s of falsely advertising jobs in the North and sending Afro Americans North.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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I mentioned the trashing of our country, along its border ranches, towns, and national and state park lands, and how the source you quoted had no concerns for that. But since you brought it up, the current DHS and administration sent plane loads of illegals all over the country, in the dead of night...with little to no notice...and dumped them there....they did this for months until finally some actual journalist somewhere uncovered the subterfuge. I guess that is pesky too. And it must really be pesky to trot out that tired "racist"charge. Nuff said.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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Quote:
I mentioned the trashing of our country, along its border ranches, towns, and national and state park lands, and how the source you quoted had no concerns for that. But since you brought it up, the current DHS and administration sent plane loads of illegals all over the country, in the dead of night...with little to no notice...and dumped them there....they did this for months until finally some actual journalist somewhere uncovered the subterfuge. I guess that is pesky too. And it must really be pesky to trot out that tired "racist"charge. Nuff said.
Sorry...but your comment has no basis in actual fact.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/16/tyler-kistner/claims-biden-secretly-flying-immigrants-us-cities-/
The ad implies that it is a new phenomenon for the federal government to transport immigrants around the country. That’s not true.
The federal government flies adult detainees in its custody from one facility to another, or from one U.S. city to another during deportation proceedings. The U.S. government in some cases also flies unaccompanied children who are being released from its custody to a family member or sponsor.
Some of these flights may happen at night, but they are not covert operations. The same types of routine flights were done by the Trump administration.
The ad contains only an element of truth. We rate it Mostly False.
Pesky thing those pesky facts.
Actually, I am old enough to recall those fake ads to lure Afro-Americans North. And racism is still with us here in the United States. The loudest voices against the newest Supreme Court Judge all came from the Olde Confederacy...Texas, Tennessee, and South Carolina, and Arkansas. And the other from a slave state that remained in the Union...Missouri.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
GA USA
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You`ll have to do better than that. I did not say "only" this administration flew migrants to all corners. i merely stated...correctly so......that what you likened to racist actions, is being done by the current bunch. And if Politifact is claiming that they were not doing so in the middle of the night, and without consulting local administrations...then Politifact is, yet again, misleading it`s readers. And I am old enough to know where the loudest voices against Clarence Thomas came from.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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https://www.msnbc.com/alex-wagner-tonight/watch/gop-governors-follow-shameful-history-with-cruel-stunt-abusing-migrants-148572741821?cid=eml_maddow_20220916&user_email=21539c69abde70e4e3fda02b9d14d1819c3badeaf5a2bcab48a023eefe0cd3d2&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=TRMS%209/16/22&utm_term=Rachel%20Maddow%20Show
Please provide a citation to back up what you are saying. The Politifact article shows that that you are incorrect.
IIRC, the loudest voices against Clarence Thomas were fellow Afro-Americans.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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Alex Wagner....MSNBC......Rachael Maddow ........is this supposedly a citation of some kind? I don`t need to follow-up. It speaks for itself.
To get back on topic...how does all this rush to green...make us stronger by delivering our energy needs to the Chinese Communists....and Europe to the Russians.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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Evidently you don't have a citation which backs your position...Now that speaks for itself.
Have you ever breathed the air in China? Or drank some water in Beijing?
evidently not.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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Quote: Evidently you don't have a citation which backs your position...Now that speaks for itself.
Have you ever breathed the air in China? Or drank some water in Beijing?
evidently not.
And yet nothing the green cult has demanded be forced upon us all, and the dangerous reality that accompanies it, will make China pollute less...or clean up their water. Nothing forces the dirtiest producers of fossil fuels... to clean up their act. In fact, it delivers western nations to greater energy dependence upon the worst actors. look at us now, we are depleting our strategic oil reserve that has been drawn on since March....and why, because we attacked our own energy independence, slowed production, raised the prices dramatically ( before Russia invaded Ukraine) then went to the Saudis and begged them to produce more so because we choose to produce less. That is moronic.
We have been worrying about the impact on our electric grid of an EMP attack....so lets also involve most of our transportation as well by going all over to EV`s.
And we are told we must sacrifice by the same people who tell us the oceans will rise and devour our coasts....while they buy multi-million mansions and estates....on the coasts they say will soon disappear. Moronic!
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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Let correct your mis-conceptions.
The US slowed oil production way before any crisis when the oil companies closed refineries, and stopped building refineries because of the low cost of oil.It was not worth it to them to increase any production, since they all took a loss during the Covid -19 Pandemic. The biggest reason oil production isn't increasing is that American energy companies and Wall Street investors are not sure that prices will stay high long enough for them to make a profit from drilling lots of new wells. Executives at 141 oil companies surveyed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas in mid-March offered several reasons why they weren’t pumping more oil. They said they were short of workers and sand, which is used to fracture shale fields to coax oil out of rock. But the most salient reason—the one offered by 60% of respondents—was that investors don’t want companies to produce a lot more oil, fearing that it will hasten the end of high oil prices
This is called Capitalism!! You believe in Capitalism, don't you?
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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I don`t have misconceptions. Now, when banks and investment funding pushes ESG....says they won`t invest in fossil fuels....that`s not marketplace, but ideologically driven. We haven`t built a new refinery in this country in, what, forty years. The refinery infrastructure was not halted because of the marketplace, or the oil companies.
When you limit oil leases on lands you control, tell the oil companies they should drill on already leased lands that the producers and investors don`t think are safe bets...and remove from leasing and drilling lands that were specifically set aside for that purpose....that is not capitalism.
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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Steve Clements
Toronto
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Quote: American energy companies and Wall Street investors are not sure that prices will stay high long enough for them to make a profit...
I think that there is a lot of truth in this.
The oil and gas industry has been "told" that crude oil (and to a lesser extent, nat gas) are the "tobacco" of the 21st Century. And the industry has responded accordingly. Capex budgets are now disciplined (IMO). If demand for your product is going to disappear (or at least decline) in the near future, you better make sure that your capex plans reflect that, and not just assume that demand will continue to grow as it has in the past.
Up until about five or seven years ago, your typical O&G company would have cash flow of X$, but spend all of that, and then some (either borrowing or issuing dilutive equity). In short, the industry was always spending (at a minimum) all of the cash generated from the business....leaving surprisingly little for shareholders. And Wall Street didn't like that....which meant that the share prices of many large O&G companies were out of favour with investors.
I have spent the last 45 years involved in "markets"...and the first thing that I do when looking at a potential investment (of a publicly traded company) is haul out the audited Cash Flow Statement. What i want to see is a business that throws off "free cash"... and until very recently, virtually every O&G company failed this test.
But with capex NOW being managed in a much more disciplined fashion (which of course means lower production), the business is now, IMO, investable.
s.c.
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NYGiant
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Let me correct your misconceptions....no NEW oil leases were given out.
No change to those oil leases already handed out.
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NYGiant
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Thanks!
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Steve Clements
Toronto
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Posts: 908
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are they still laughing?
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Quote: Now, when banks and investment funding pushes ESG....says they won`t invest in fossil fuels....that's not marketplace, but ideologically driven.
Agree completely. There are large pension funds (typically for teachers or other gov't employees) that are fond of ESG mandates. And I think that this is a pile of crap-:) A pension fund's job should be to maximize returns, not try and make the world a better place. Frankly, oil and gas shares don't care who owns them-:) Their feelings won't be hurt if some ESG mandate wants to save the gay whales.
Fortunately (??) your average pension fund manager would sell his mother's soul for 25 basis points of outperformance....so if oil stocks look cheap because ABC Teachers' pension fund has a "no oil stocks" mandate, there are usually tons of other portfolio managers that are happy to buy what they view as an undervalued stock.
We have the same problem with Central Bank mandates. Which is perhaps why we are in the ;pickle that we are in now, with high inflation and a panicked FED/Bank of Canada.
Used to be, the job of the FED etc. was to control inflation. Then low unemployment became part of their mandate....and of course, income inequality has now somehow fallen under their jurisdiction as well....
s.c.
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vpatrick
MA
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Great informed Points Steve concerning the real workings of the marketplace. I think most when discussing this issue including myself we repeat the talking points of our favorite news sources with out any real in depth knowledge of what is really going on concerning this worlds energy dilemma and marketplace . In the US right now I dont think there will be any clear thinking concerning making the correct decisions as to how to transition to cleaner energy. California mandated recently that by 2035 just 13 years from now that all vehicles sold in California must be electric, (I thought the world only had 12 years left in 2020 during the presidential elections they are too late) and then just a few weeks later the state pleaded with its people to not charge major appliances or their cars during a heat wave. Some of the estimates I have read that if California went all electric car by 2035 they would need 20 more new powerplants. Since they also do not like Nuke Power plants especially on the fault lines that California has they would have to be Carbon using power plants so essentially your paying Peter to pay Paul. And don't mention as others have the amount of environmental damage done by extracting the minerals to make batteries. Minerals and Oil are not an infinite source's of power, even the components to make solar panels and wind farms are not in-exhaustible and I think basically no matter how you look at it we are living on a nothing more than a giant Easter Island where our demise is inevitable. Happy Saturday!
Im not advocating climate denying or saying throw caution to the wind and start cutting of our cars catalytic converters because all is lost but we must become clear headed and have clear headed goals concerning energy and national security ("National security"words thrown around so much they mean nothing). Solar Power and wind turbines will not heat Canadian homes in winter and to pass on grotesque fuel bills to its middle class/poor populace will not help the Canadians or the folks in North US decide to buy Solar panels or an electric car, neither works well in the short days of the winter. Also slaughtering farmers live stalk and denying them the fertilizer they need to increase their crop yields is denying the fact this world has billions of mouths to feed and the people that will feel it the most are the most vulnerable, and the most suffering. I think the only answer is Nuclear power on a wide scale but even California with its huge budget surplus has not planned a new power plant never mind a nuclear one but they did decide to keep an old one that was meant to be shut off open for a few more years, 2035 is just 13 years from now.
The Russians did offer the Germans and Europe a great cheap deal on Russian gas probably planning all the while their Ukrainian invasion as the west talked about carbon credits ! The Chinese are licking their lips when California talks about 2035 banning gas powered cars knowing all of the other Blue states will follow suit as China owns most of the worlds minerals that make solar panels and batteries as they keep building coal powered power plants to power their own country... paying Peter to pay Paul. The atmosphere doesnt care where the co2 comes from. It seems we just shift the responsibility so we dont feel guilty. Did I mention India?
Lastly I have a question? If every country on earth went to zero Co2 emissions right now would it reverse Climate change and if it did how long till we see the results?
I mean it sincerely
vpatrick
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George
Centre Hastings
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Is anyone else finding that the posts on this thread are extra wide? Do you have to scroll to the right for quite a distance to see all the text?
None of the other threads are doing this. Just this one.
George
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