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kaii
Oslo  
Posts: 2883
Joined: 2010
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
10/25/2020 8:25:03 AM

With the 50th ratification of the UN treaty banning nuclear weapons (which was adopted by 122 countries of the UN on 7th July 2017) the ban becomes part of international law in 90 days.

This, of course, will have limited practical effect in the short run, since none of the countries that have nuclear weapons, nor their allies, have signed (and therefore not ratified) the treaty), but it now does stand as part of international law - making any use of nuclear weapons a war crime.

It will, however, give the international community a new legal basis for opposing countries like Iran and North Korea developing nukes.

K
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“My dear boy, as long as you don’t invade Afghanistan you’ll be absolutely fine.” - Harold Macmillan to Alec Douglas-Home upon the latter taking over as PM.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 3494
Joined: 2004
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
10/25/2020 9:36:03 PM

Kai, I noted this from the “Guardian” some time after your post.
[Read More]
I think it’s fair to explore the impact of nuclear testing on global areas nuclear nations deemed “expendable”, though I recognize that’s not the issue of your post.

I will admit, however, I can’t figure out what this implies: Quote:
none of the countries that have nuclear weapons, nor their allies, have signed (and therefore not ratified) the treaty …

I wonder, e.g., what “their allies” means in context. I mean, who isn’t an ally of someone in this complex world? Canada is allied with the US, with NATO, and – I assume, separately – many individual nations. The same would apply from the other end: the EU must assume its members are allied states.

Are you using that “nor their allies” phrase as a cover for such nations as Israel, who are clear strategic allies of the US but still have not admitted their nuclear status?

I had assumed that NK has nukes. How will the law enacted in 90 days change their current stockpile or future development? And with regard to Iran, if they are considered a rogue state (which I think is nonsense BS) what body has the right to condemn it further for developing and expanding its nuclear capabilities?

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
kaii
Oslo  
Posts: 2883
Joined: 2010
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
10/25/2020 9:53:32 PM

Quote:


Are you using that “nor their allies” phrase as a cover for such nations as Israel, who are clear strategic allies of the US but still have not admitted their nuclear status?

Essentially yes. None of the NATO nations, nor the Russians, Chinese, Israelis, Indians, Pakistanis etc have signed the convention, so the practical effect in the short run will be small.
However, if one remembers the ban on cluster ammunition, it did not take very long from initial signing, until most NATO nations (notably including UK, France and Germany) had also signed and ratified the convention (the US being an exception, so is Russia).

Quote:

I had assumed that NK has nukes. How will the law enacted in 90 days change their current stockpile or future development?

Will probably not affect it directly at all in the short run. Any use of nukes will automatically be a war crime though, which it has not been up till now, so legally the situation has changed.

Quote:

And with regard to Iran, if they are considered a rogue state (which I think is nonsense BS) what body has the right to condemn it further for developing and expanding its nuclear capabilities?

The answer to "what body has the right to condemn..." would be the UN. This is the only body with real authority to impose sanctions or condemn actions to develop nuclear weapons.
Again, possessing nukes would not be a crime as such, but any use would constitute a war crime, regardless of what other states have done before. Should Iran be allowed to "expand their nuclear capacity"? I certainly think so, yes. Should they be allowed to develop nuclear weapons? Hell no.

What the world needs is a reduction of existing nukes, not more countries developing them. This convention is the first step towards a complete ban on nuclear weapons, like chemical and biological weapons have been banned before. It will not happen overnight though.

K

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“My dear boy, as long as you don’t invade Afghanistan you’ll be absolutely fine.” - Harold Macmillan to Alec Douglas-Home upon the latter taking over as PM.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 3494
Joined: 2004
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
10/25/2020 10:44:12 PM

Kai, thanks for the response.

You say: Quote:
What the world needs is a reduction of existing nukes, not more countries developing them.

Oh, how I wish!. IMHO, 1 nuke is too many, so although I’m grateful for the walk-back in numbers over the past 30 years, we’ve got a long way to go! And the nuclear warfare clock remains too close to midnight.
Quote:
This convention is the first step towards a complete ban on nuclear weapons, like chemical and biological weapons have been banned before. It will not happen overnight though.

Again, I have some trouble with what this might mean. I can think of only one weapon – gas, which I suppose goes down as a chemical weapon but could also be a vehicle to deliver biological weapons – where a League of Nations ban was almost totally effective. Sadly, I can’t think of any first, second or third world country which has not probably developed and stockpiled weapons in the biochemical field. Banning their use is one thing; banning their development or existence is another. And that applies to nukes as well as biochemicals. Bottom line is that control of such weapons which are allowed to exist but banned from use is they are in the hands of politicians, who see the world differently than humans do. Putin has access to a button. So do Boris, Trump, Netanyahu, Modi, Kim Jung Il and too many others. I can’t think of one leader who would care about breaking a ban or being condemned if their political purposes were served.

Cheers. And stay safe.
Brian G

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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
11/19/2020 9:08:08 PM

Meanwhile, the next huge rock hurtling towards Earth (Tunguska blast anyone) will be met with harsh language as we disarm any devices that might shatter or deflect such a world changing impact event.

Once the Genie is out of the bottle ....

... fantasy goes delusional.
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/3/2020 12:44:17 AM

The Killing of Iran’s Lead Nuke Scientist Was About Stopping Bombs, Not Biden
https://www.gingrich360.com/2020/12/the-killing-of-irans-lead-nuke-scientist-was-about-stopping-bombs-not-biden/
[Read More]
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 11414
Joined: 2009
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/3/2020 8:55:52 AM

Quote:
The Killing of Iran’s Lead Nuke Scientist Was About Stopping Bombs, Not Biden
https://www.gingrich360.com/2020/12/the-killing-of-irans-lead-nuke-scientist-was-about-stopping-bombs-not-biden/
[Read More]



I am not likely to purchase a Newt Gingrich blog so perhaps you would give us a synopsis of what he is saying so that there is a basis for discussion.

What little I could read began with this:

Quote:
The Obama administration was infamously hostile to Israel and acquiescent to Iran.


Infamy? Am I correctly assessing this as a "boost Trump" article?

Hostile for wanting Israel to respect the rights of others to self-determination and sovereignty?

Is Gingrich starting with the assumption that the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was an act of acquiescence toward Iran? If so, there are several countries that would disagree with this Trump sycophant.

The following is a translation of Israel's, "nation state law" which, to me, is problematic if this nation wishes to call itself democratic. I found a couple of clauses that were disturbing to me. Perhaps some fodder for discussion here.

[Read More]
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/3/2020 5:17:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The Killing of Iran’s Lead Nuke Scientist Was About Stopping Bombs, Not Biden
https://www.gingrich360.com/2020/12/the-killing-of-irans-lead-nuke-scientist-was-about-stopping-bombs-not-biden/
[Read More]



I am not likely to purchase a Newt Gingrich blog so perhaps you would give us a synopsis of what he is saying so that there is a basis for discussion.


I'm not likely to purchase either, but the synopsis is the paragraph you excerpted from. To effect and quote;
"The Obama administration was infamously hostile to Israel and acquiescent to Iran. But even during Barack Obama’s presidency, the US and Israel agreed on the state of Iran’s nuclear program. Indeed, Washington and Jerusalem saw the same intelligence and came to similar conclusions about how close Iran was to building nuclear bombs. The much-publicized tensions and disagreements between both sides were over something different: the urgency of the threat. "

Quote:
What little I could read began with this:

Quote:
The Obama administration was infamously hostile to Israel and acquiescent to Iran.


Infamy? Am I correctly assessing this as a "boost Trump" article?


You can "assess" whatever you want, which you usually do, and in error. More an anti-Obama, your hero, article is how others might see it.

Meanwhile, more intelligent and competent persons might make use of internet search functions and start with one or more of the articles on Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, "a brigadier general in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps," such as this Wiki;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohsen_Fakhrizadeh
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Quote:
Hostile for wanting Israel to respect the rights of others to self-determination and sovereignty?


Let's start with those whom are hostile to Israel's rights " to self-determination and sovereignty" as well as existence.
We can begin with the "two state solution" presented by the United Nations in 1947, accepted for the most part by the Jews in Palestine yet rejected largely by the Islamic/Arab population of Palestine and the neighboring 'Arab' states.



This original "two state solution" of about 73 years ago was rejected by the Islamic/Arab nations of the region and the local non-Jew Palestinians to the effect that they went to war against the Jews/Israel with the goal of destroying the new nation of Israel and 'removing' the Jews. In essence pick up where the Nazis left off, were aborted from "Final Solution".
Here's a map of the actual boundaries and situation when the 1948 war started;



Here's link to the extensive Wiki article on this initial conflict/war to destroy Israel and eliminate the Jews there;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War
[Read More]

As one will notice if they read their history of this conflict, the Islamic/Arab aggressors set the terms of the conflict as an all or nothing assault to take away the land/territory of Israel. Only fair that similar terms apply should they fail and Israel be allowed to keep what lands it conquered in it's defense.

Quote:
Is Gingrich starting with the assumption that the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was an act of acquiescence toward Iran?


Considering that the JCPOA was the workings of a POTUS whom turned his back on the people of Iran when they started their Green Movement for reform;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Green_Movement
[Read More]

... and also rewarded the theocracy dictatorship of Iran with the illusion of a deal to limit their nuclear weapons program and rewarded them by unfreezing their assets/finances, not just acquiescence, but aiding and abetting an enemy of the USA which had repeatedly, before and since, called for our nation's death and aided it's proxies forces in attacks against us. Some would call that treason.

Quote:
... If so, there are several countries that would disagree with this Trump sycophant.


More correctly, select political leaders in those nations and some of their population whom might disagree, doing so as sycophants of the Iranian regime.

Note that the major target of Iran's aggression's of the past decades, Israel, was not a party to this "agreement". Note also that two of those nations involved, China and Russia, were ones whom have aided Iran in both it's ballistic missile development and it nuclear power/weapons efforts;
EXCERPT:
"In the late 1980s Iran reinstated its nuclear program, with assistance from Pakistan (which entered into a bilateral agreement with Iran in 1992), China (which did the same in 1990), and Russia (which did the same in 1992 and 1995), and from the A.Q. Khan network.[26] Iran "began pursuing an indigenous nuclear fuel cycle capability by developing a uranium mining infrastructure and experimenting with uranium conversion and enrichment" "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#Breach_of_uranium_enrichment_limit
Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action#Breach_of_uranium_enrichment_limit


Quote:
The following is a translation of Israel's, "nation state law" which, to me, is problematic if this nation wishes to call itself democratic. I found a couple of clauses that were disturbing to me. Perhaps some fodder for discussion here.

[Read More]


Considering Israel is a nation which you and most other liberal-Left-wingers think has no right to exist, nor to defend it's existence, maybe start with that before moving on to your "fodder". As a nation that has been under siege, and attack, for nearly 75 years, and with many hostile forces still on it's borders (and within) showing little prospect to end their aggressions anytime in the near future, I consider Israel doing the best it can to balance it's survival with self-government by it's citizens.

Since you are a socialist, anti-capitalist, and classic liberal~left-winger doing the usual enabling of the enemies of Freedom and Free-Enterprise, I'm not surprised you're "disturbed".

You want something to be really disturbed by, consider the role of taqiyya when dealing with and making treaties/agreements with Islamic dominated governments/nations. One of several sources that could be consulted;
https://billionbibles.org/sharia/taqiyya.html
[Read More]
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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 11414
Joined: 2009
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/3/2020 9:27:03 PM

Quote:
You can "assess" whatever you want, which you usually do, and in error. More an anti-Obama, your hero, article is how others might see it.


Quote:
Meanwhile, more intelligent and competent persons might make use of internet search functions


Quote:
Considering Israel is a nation which you and most other liberal-Left-wingers think has no right to exist, nor to defend it's existence,


Quote:
Since you are a socialist, anti-capitalist, and classic liberal~left-winger doing the usual enabling of the enemies of Freedom and Free-Enterprise, I'm not surprised you're "disturbed".


Baiting again, David. Your MO is consistent and consistently childish.

Your lengthy tome was full of incomplete analysis which is a hallmark of trolls. Check your comment on Iran beginning to increase uranium production. Of course they did, after Trump pulled out of the deal and reinstated sanctions in 2019. Another incomplete analysis. You neglect to note that Iran was in full compliance with the nuclear deal until Trump pulled the plug.

You appear to be a troll and employ those tactics. I don't believe that you come here to engage in discussion but more to disrupt and derail with comments like those above. You certainly feel free to engage in personal or ad hominem attacks whenever your poorly explained arguments are challenged.

We know you though as a virulent Islamophobe and that clouds your judgement.

As well, you attempt to overwhelm with volume so that anyone wishing to engage is compelled to sift through kilograms of equine waste which is nearly always a lengthy cut and paste job. I trust that you do contribute to Wiki when they ask.

So it isn't really productive to engage with you as your anti-Islam bias and a propensity to believe conspiracies has made you blind.

I will say that you have promoted some questionable sites in the past including, "Billion Bibles", which is rated the lowest for factual reporting. It is full of Christian propaganda and anti-Quran propaganda. It is an anti-Islam hate site.

You were suspended from your now defunct "big pond" site called Armchair General for posting this hate literature weren't you David? Or was it something else?

For others who may be reading here is a rating for Billion Bibles. BB also links those who hate to other hate filled sites.

[Read More]
G David Bock
Lynden WA USA
Posts: 480
Joined: 2020
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/4/2020 4:25:30 PM

Quote:
Quote:
You can "assess" whatever you want, which you usually do, and in error. More an anti-Obama, your hero, article is how others might see it.


Quote:
Meanwhile, more intelligent and competent persons might make use of internet search functions


Quote:
Considering Israel is a nation which you and most other liberal-Left-wingers think has no right to exist, nor to defend it's existence,


Quote:
Since you are a socialist, anti-capitalist, and classic liberal~left-winger doing the usual enabling of the enemies of Freedom and Free-Enterprise, I'm not surprised you're "disturbed".


Quote:
Baiting again, David. Your MO is consistent and consistently childish.

"baiting" - I doubt you know the meaning of that term given your usage, though if you "bite" than maybe it is "bait'.
Point is Komrade George, it isn't all about you. Your posts provide a point of reference to reply to with the counter-point and if there is any " MO is consistent and consistently childish." I'd suggest it's yours in thinking this Forum is your exclusive domain and all posts revolve around "George".

Quote:
Your lengthy tome was full of incomplete analysis which is a hallmark of trolls.

What analysis was presented is such that you don't agree with, but hardly incomplete, rather a start point which others could follow through. It consisted of excerpts from sites for reference in facts and data, not bluster and opinion which is your trademark (and the real one of "trolls"), and material for the other readers to go through, consider, and use to make up their own minds with.

Quote:
Check your comment on Iran beginning to increase uranium production. Of course they did, after Trump pulled out of the deal and reinstated sanctions in 2019.


First, not "my comment" but content of a source-link I provided, but whom ever expected you to get details correct or not engage distortion and disinformation?
Second, if Iran increased enriched uranium production it wasn't because of Trump's actions, rather it was a matter of that nation's leadership exercising their free-will to offend the other five members of the JCPOA by using Trump as an excuse to do what they wanted to do. This is so classic of the childish mindset of the Liberal~Left-wing to never accept responsibility of their own choices and actions, but always to place blame on others ("The Devil made me do it.").


Quote:
Another incomplete analysis. You neglect to note that Iran was in full compliance with the nuclear deal until Trump pulled the plug.


Actually "incorrect analysis" on your part as Iran could have chosen the noble path of integrity and remained in compliance, despite what Trump chose, had they really wanted to. It's clear they were eager for the first "out" and ready to resume being Rogue and belligerent, in defiance towards the other five(six) signers of the JCPOA whom still support it.

Quote:
You appear to be a troll and employ those tactics.

Looking and gazing into the mirror again are you?

Quote:
I don't believe that you come here to engage in discussion but more to disrupt and derail with comments like those above.


"discussion" usually engages point/counter-point yet you seem to define such as genuflect, kiss ring and agree with Komrade George; stroke his ego and hubris. I'm surprised you haven't stomped your foot and stormed off in a pout.

Quote:
You certainly feel free to engage in personal or ad hominem attacks whenever your poorly explained arguments are challenged.


Check back through the history of posts here and we'll see you initiated this sort of conduct. Continued with such recent pleasantries such as "Trumpsters", "Trump sycophants", etc.; and not just directed toward me, but to the other few Conservatives here.

Quote:
We know you though as a virulent Islamophobe and that clouds your judgement.


And we know you as virulent Jew-o-phobe and Christian-o-phobe which clouds your judgement. Especially when you appear to approve of Iran's suppression of the Green Movement and accept the common ideology shared by Islam and Germany's Nazis (NSDAP). BTW, I'm also a Nazi-o-phobe ;-)

Oh yeah, you also present as a Capitalismophobe and Free Enterpriseophobe

( Speaking of that multi meaning and oft misused term; Islamophobe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
[Read More] )

Quote:
As well, you attempt to overwhelm with volume so that anyone wishing to engage is compelled to sift through kilograms of equine waste which is nearly always a lengthy cut and paste job.


Actually, rather limited excerpts, with links for those whom want to get more information, data, facts, sources, etc.; rather than "sift through kilograms of equine waste" which are the substance of your undocumented opinions.

Quote:
I trust that you do contribute to Wiki when they ask.

I trust you do also. And BTW, make use of the many sources and references in those Wiki links.

Quote:
So it isn't really productive to engage with you as your anti-Islam bias and a propensity to believe conspiracies has made you blind.


Whether you "engage" or not doesn't matter to me. Your posts tend to be classic blend of ignorance and delusion common to the liberal/left-wing limited mindset, hence provide substance to be countered. BTW, you also appear as the guy with a wide range of his own biases and propensity for belief in conspiracies, such as "Russia colluded with Trump to help him steal the election from Hillary Clinton".

Quote:
I will say that you have promoted some questionable sites in the past including, "Billion Bibles", which is rated the lowest for factual reporting. It is full of Christian propaganda and anti-Quran propaganda. It is an anti-Islam hate site.

You were suspended from your now defunct "big pond" site called Armchair General for posting this hate literature weren't you David? Or was it something else?

For others who may be reading here is a rating for Billion Bibles. BB also links those who hate to other hate filled sites.

[Read More]


"Media Bias Fact Check" is also far from objective or accurate and without it's own bias, but no surprise you presented them, since you also present questionable sites and sources with their own left of center bias and distortions. Kettle calling pot black, hey?

Actually, my past clashes with the admins of ArmChair General Forum had to do with "addressing the poster, not the post", i.e. making things personal which seems to be more accepted here (and helped nurture a bad habit ;-) ). I was still an active member when the owners, HistoryNet.com, pulled the plug and deactivated ACG with no warning or explanation.

Billion Bibles definition of taqiyya is one take, many others are available, which you could have provided, were you really interested in "discussion" rather than confrontation. Here's a few, Google search could provide others.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Taqiyya
[Read More]

What is Taqiyya?
In several Quranic passages as well as the example of Muhammad, Muslims are encouraged to deceive non-Muslims when it will help protect Islam. It is known as the principle of "taqiyya" or "religious deception."

This is less surprising if you first understand that in mainstream Islamic teachings, the world is divided into "the house of Islam" and "the house of war." That is, part of the world is Islamic and the other part has yet to brought into the light with Allah's holy law (Sharia).

And since relations with the non-Islamic part of the world exists in a state of war, then deceit is an appropriate strategy, used by all military commanders since the beginning of warfare.

http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/06/what-is-taqiyya.html
[Read More]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya
[Read More]

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TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 11414
Joined: 2009
Nuclear weapons are now illegal
12/4/2020 5:23:44 PM

Classic right wing baiting typical of that seen on too many social media platforms or even on letters to the editor on low end newspapers.

Do you realize that you simply repeated any of the sentences that I provided and pointed back with an, "I know you are but what am I"? Childish.

But I am going to ask the site administrator to assess your Islamophobic commentary and references to sites that promote hate against Muslims. Your sickness has no place here.

You attempted to link us to some wiki sites with information on Islam. In the past, you have linked us to more hateful sites.

Your accusations extended toward me as an anti-Semite with pro-Nazi tendencies have no basis in fact. All part of the tactics of a troll.

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