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 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
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vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2220
Joined: 2020
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/14/2022 6:23:57 PM
I wonder what a Ukraine win looks like for the Ukrainian's? Now that Finland is going to join Nato how does that look? Even if Russia limps back to its borders will their crazy end? I dont know.


vpatrick
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nuts
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2004
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/14/2022 6:39:04 PM
Won't Turkey veto Finland's application? I think Ukraine will prevail, but at a horrible cost.

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3050
Joined: 2010
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/14/2022 7:21:54 PM
Quote:
Won't Turkey veto Finland's application? I think Ukraine will prevail, but at a horrible cost.

Larry

I doubt Turkey will end up vetoing NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, but they will certainly try to gain some benefits from their vote.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2220
Joined: 2020
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/14/2022 7:44:00 PM
Turkey must be wondering as well if they can be invaded, looking at Russian invading forces as they are now I doubt many fear the Russian army. So Turkey must be objecting for other reasons.



vpatrick
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nuts
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3003
Joined: 2010
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/14/2022 9:32:44 PM
Turkey´s main complaint is that Finland and Sweden have many Kurdish exiles and asylum seekers and therefore unjustifiably claim they support terrorist groups.

A problem between Germany and Turkey is that Erdogan´s secret police have been illegally following/threatening Kurdish exiles here. He flipped out when the Bundeswehr trained the Pershmerga to fight ISIS and Germany was appalled when Trump abandoned the Kurds to the Turks.

Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
Larry Purtell
Little Meadows PA USA
Posts: 1474
Joined: 2004
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/19/2022 9:41:46 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Won't Turkey veto Finland's application? I think Ukraine will prevail, but at a horrible cost.

Larry

I doubt Turkey will end up vetoing NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, but they will certainly try to gain some benefits from their vote.

K


I sure called this one.

Larry
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"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3050
Joined: 2010
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/19/2022 10:00:06 AM
It appears Croatia will also try to squeeze some benefits from EU for allowing Finland and Sweden into NATO (never mind that they are completely separate organisations).
Not sure this "eastern" negotiating tactic is very useful for them in the long run, even if they may secure some crumbles from the table now.

I still think there is little chance Turkey and now Croatia will actually end up vetoing the entry, but just the fact that they are trying to stir up some noise now is a sign that perhaps the current setup is not optimal.

There has been talk for some time of ditching NATO in its current format and creating a northern alliance, with the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, (Germany), Nordics and Baltics, perhaps that idea might gain some more traction now.

K
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"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12240
Joined: 2009
If Ukraine Wins then what?
5/19/2022 11:23:11 AM
Quote:
It appears Croatia will also try to squeeze some benefits from EU for allowing Finland and Sweden into NATO (never mind that they are completely separate organisations).
Not sure this "eastern" negotiating tactic is very useful for them in the long run, even if they may secure some crumbles from the table now.

I still think there is little chance Turkey and now Croatia will actually end up vetoing the entry, but just the fact that they are trying to stir up some noise now is a sign that perhaps the current setup is not optimal.

There has been talk for some time of ditching NATO in its current format and creating a northern alliance, with the US, Canada, UK, Netherlands, (Germany), Nordics and Baltics, perhaps that idea might gain some more traction now.

K


That's interesting Kai. It seems that a northern alliance would be significantly weaker militarily than a full NATO or am I wrong on that?
As well, would that drive the former eastern bloc countries into a new alliance with Russia?

Cheers,

George

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