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 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
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Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1179
Joined: 2004
Peter Zeihan: The Collapse of Globalization and America's Retreat
6/18/2022 4:11:59 PM
I find Peter Zeihan fascinating. When I listen to him I think of Brian Grafton because it gives Brian some serious pub talk fodder.

Brian, tell me what you think.

Peter Zeihan: The Collapse of Globalization and America's Retreat
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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4266
Joined: 2004
Peter Zeihan: The Collapse of Globalization and America's Retreat
6/18/2022 9:53:08 PM
Brian W, to be honest I have nothing to assess this against. And having watched a fascinating presentation, I wonder why you associate this with me in general or with my pub discussions in particular.

I loved the focus of the discussion, if not the format. I agreed with much of the commentary, but not everything. I have argued some of the points he does, but without the broad framework Peter Zeihan encloses them in. I’ve never heard of Peter Zeihan before, so don’t have a clue of his background. And because I don’t follow podcasts, I have no idea he is different from other podcasters, or whether he actually can justify or give references for his comments. I don’t know if citations are needed in podcasts, but certainly none were offered here.

As to fodder for pub talk, I’m not sure whether that is meant to be demeaning or not. I live in a town with neighbourhood pubs – there are probably five or six within walking distance of my home – and I use these as meeting places. I shouldn’t have to point out that a pub is simply a public house, where a host of publican provides space for gatherings. In some instances, I’ve been meeting the same people since 1992; in other instances, I meet specific folks for specific discussions. In fact, I meet with three different groups, at least bi-weekly, and not all meetings would give a damn about Peter Zeihan or my comments on similar topics. I have one person I meet who is more interested in discussion Wittgenstein or Hume than political issues; more interested in philosophical constructs of political “-isms” than in the Ukraine.

And when I sit down for a pint in a pub, except for one buddy there is seldom discussion based on specific books or podcast feeds such as the Peter Zeihan podcast your present. We’re just a bunch of old farts who don’t want to talk about what they did in the past, but are interested in sharing their views based typically on decades of experience in a variety of fields. Consider a Canadian-born Fisheries expert, who has work as far afield as Russia. An African-born. A colonial Africa-British educated urban planner. A British-born and educated medical doctor. My buddies. We don’t talk what we did in the past, and don’t very often include discussions of our families, kids, or the like.

Sorry, let me stop now. I think I’m being too sensitive to your referral to how I discuss things. I hope you aren’t making this an issue.

It’s a good post, Brian W. Thanks for sharing. For reasons I assume (I have no way to compare), I agree with his comments concerning the US, though his reasons and mine are based on very different assessments. I would push it further, and suggest that everything about the US – their belief in manifest destiny, they’re outrageous commitment to the Constitution, their slavish adherence to increasingly meaningless 18th century statements.

Oddly, these are issues which, to a large extend, are no longer topics which may be discussed on MHO: there are simply not the threads necessary. I think this is sad, but have tried to tailor my posts so as not to re-trigger the nastiness of MHO about 18 months ago.

I don’t feel I can discuss the issues raised by Peter Zeilan’s interview on MHO, to be honest. I might, I admit, raise his argument with my buddies, if other issues don’t keep discussion directed elsewhere.

I have all kinds of comments I might make based on the Peter Zeihan dissertation. He’s fascinating to listen to, but he seems – almost despite his stance of objectivity – to be using an argument that is US-centric. And I don’t think at any point does he mention exactly how incapable US citizens are of dealing with even fleeting distress. This is an on-going issue, and response to any posting on some now-defunct MHO threads proved that any challenge to US citizens’ social norm leads to discomfort, or distaste, or disbelief, or to dissent and dispute.

Cheers,
Brian G



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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.
Brian W
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 1179
Joined: 2004
Peter Zeihan: The Collapse of Globalization and America's Retreat
6/19/2022 8:45:12 AM
Hi Brian,

I'm glad you found Zeilan's viewpoints interesting. I've listened to him a few times and he's fascinating. He's definitely convinced of his own opinions. LOL. Yesterday's video was especially interesting.

Oh no, I didn't mean the pub comment as demeaning at all. While watching this video and listening to his fascinating opinions, I just thought of you chatting with your friends at the pub (as you've mentioned several times) about these topics. He always brings up incredibly fascinating topics. The topic of China's eventual demise is especially fascinating.

I believe the folks from 18 months ago are no longer members here. I could be wrong.

Happy Father's Day!
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"Take it easy. But take it" - Tom Morello's mom.
Brian Grafton
Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 4266
Joined: 2004
Peter Zeihan: The Collapse of Globalization and America's Retreat
6/19/2022 10:06:00 PM
I know this is mere coincidence, but in light of your link on globalization I note that it was on 17 June 1940 that “the US Navy requested an appropriation of $4 billion to construct a ‘two-ocean navy.’ The American strategy until now had alswys centred on a Pacific fleet.” (Goralski, World War II Almanac, pp 121-22.).

Some points which strike me:
• I feel I should write “$4 (four) billion”, this to allow expansion into a two-ocean navy. For FY 2022, I believe the Department of the Navy has requested a budget of $211.7 billion. I know, I know – $4 B was a lot of money in 1940.
• IMHO, somebody was reading the tea leaves pretty acutely to present that request on the very day France’s Marshall Pétain sued for peace with Germany.

I believe I’m correct in stating that both throughout most of WW1 and at least to 10 June 1940, the US was making trouble over RN blockading policies as they impacted US commercial shipping. In what ways did German occupation of the coast of western Europe from Trømso to Biarritz impact a still-neutral US? I believe they continued to trade with at least Sweden, Portugal, Spain and Italy, and with Vichy France once it emerged, though not Germany. Am I right? Someone want to jump in here?

And yes, Happy Fathers Day to dads everywhere. Brian, I think your kids run close to the age of my grandkids.

Cheers,
Brian G
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us." Walt Kelly. "The Best Things in Life Aren't Things" Bumper sticker.

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