MILITARY HISTORY ONLINE

User:  
Password:  
 
 (2000-Pres) Current Day Military talk (No Partisan Politics)
Page 2 of 3 (Page:  1    2    3 )
Message
GregT
Three Rivers MA USA
Posts: 144
Joined: 2013
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/12/2022 3:10:02 PM
Why do you guys keep engaging him?
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2342
Joined: 2020
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/12/2022 4:09:31 PM
When Morris and George agree that its trolling it is most likely true. His argument doesnt even make sense.

vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2010
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/12/2022 4:10:54 PM
Quote:
Why do you guys keep engaging him?


Good question. I think it´s because of the professions of George ( retired Teacher) and myself (just about to retire) therapist. No matter how difficult the client/student we can´t just give up on them

Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/12/2022 4:39:58 PM
I was hoping that new blood would reinvigorate the forum. So far I think that I have been played.

George
GregT
Three Rivers MA USA
Posts: 144
Joined: 2013
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/12/2022 5:26:48 PM
I think you should give up and let him "win".

Think of it as a participation trophy where losers get one too.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/13/2022 5:34:23 PM
a little push back never hurt.

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 9:47:05 AM
Quote:
If the US has the best education system in the world, can anyone explain to me how the many US students turning up here in Berlin are STUNNINGLY ignorant ? Especially in history, geography and language skills.

Trevor

Just a quick Geography lesson.

In Europe, travel 500 miles in any direction, and you run into a country where a different language is spoken. Hence the emphasis on languages. In the United States of America, travel the same 500 miles East or West, and the people speak the same language. Even travel to Canada and the same English language is spoken. Hence the emphasis on English.

Americans excel at technology. We won WW1 and we liberated Western Europe. Thats all the history we need to know, really.

morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2007
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 10:01:02 AM
When I sold my house in Lawrenceville Georgia, to move to Dunwoody and become a caregiver, .......I couldn`t go 500 fricken feet without needing to speak Spanish.

Our schools were brand new...yet covered up in trailer classrooms.......and seemingly, every DUI or murder in Gwinnett County...involved a Gonzalez or Rimerez.....who couldn`t speak English....(my once upon a time next door neighbors came from Cuba, taught at Atlanta HBC`s and worked part-time translating for the courts and inmates.)

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2007
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 10:40:58 AM
To tie that into the thread....I believe that any illegal immigrant who enlists in the US military, and serves for 4 years should receive automatic US citizenship.

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
kaii
Oslo  Norway
Posts: 3084
Joined: 2010
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 2:03:27 PM
We do have another Angela! Just with a slight twist this time. I was beginning to think they had lost interest in MHO.
----------------------------------
"They tried to bury us - but did not realise that we are seeds." -Volodymyr Zelenskiy, President of Ukraine
Wazza
Sydney  Australia
Posts: 744
Joined: 2005
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 3:36:11 PM
Quote:
To tie that into the thread....I believe that any illegal immigrant who enlists in the US military, and serves for 4 years should receive automatic US citizenship.

Respects, Morris


Morris,
I witnessed that particular debacle in the mid 2000's.
Career marines who had completed multiple tours of Iraq etc being told they were being deported due to not being eligible for citizenship or the promise of citizenship being broken.
Shameful decision by the US Gov.
And I agree, service for your adopted country should count towards citizenship.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2010
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 6:09:19 PM
Just a quick Geography lesson.

I do not require a lesson in Geography or any subject you believe yourself to be an expert in..
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/14/2022 7:38:14 PM
I traveled throughout Europe a few years ago without any problems. I even aided a few get from one place to another.



vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2342
Joined: 2020
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/15/2022 12:58:29 PM
congratulations
----------------------------------
nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/15/2022 3:22:08 PM
Thank you.

That should end any comments about Americans and geography, to a rest.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2342
Joined: 2020
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/15/2022 3:31:00 PM
absolutely
----------------------------------
nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 10:06:53 AM
In the 2021 ranking, the United States dropped from the second spot in 2020 to the third spot in 2021 in a ranking of secondary school students' performance in international science and math competitions. Behind China and Russia, the U.S ranked third in science and math competitions.

And as the Chinese and the Russian may have skewed their results, The US still ranks pretty high.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/math-rankings-by-country
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2010
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 11:15:24 AM
Quote:
That should end any comments about Americans and geography, to a rest.


Quote:
In the 2021 ranking, the United States dropped from the second spot in 2020 to the third spot in 2021 in a ranking of secondary school students' performance in international science and math competitions. Behind China and Russia, the U.S ranked third in science and math competitions.

And as the Chinese and the Russian may have skewed their results, The US still ranks pretty high.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/math-rankings-by-country


A lesson in humour.

What were the rankings in Geography, History and language skills ?
Trevor
----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 11:33:01 AM
Quote:
In the 2021 ranking, the United States dropped from the second spot in 2020 to the third spot in 2021 in a ranking of secondary school students' performance in international science and math competitions. Behind China and Russia, the U.S ranked third in science and math competitions.

And as the Chinese and the Russian may have skewed their results, The US still ranks pretty high.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/math-rankings-by-country


Careful with this source. They tend to use surveys to determine rankings.

Plus, they are inconsistent.

They will publish a list showing the US on top and then include this disclaimer:

Quote:
Ironically, despite the United States having the best-surveyed education system on the globe, U.S students consistently score lower in math and science than students from many other countries. According to a Business Insider report in 2018, the U.S. ranked 38th in math scores and 24th in science. Discussions about why the United States' education rankings have fallen by international standards over the past three decades frequently point out that government spending on education has failed to keep up with inflation.



When I suggested that the standard to rate secondary school systems was the PISA, it was because it has a published methodology and is subscribed to by countries and education systems all over the world, including the US.

All in the same article, likely the one that you scoured the internet to find.

[Read More]

So you have to determine just what it is that the study measures. PISA is narrow and well defined. It measures15-year-olds' ability to use their reading, mathematics and science knowledge and skills to meet real-life challenges. (source: PISA)

I cannot tell the methodology used by the World Population Review that you cited however, they did provide this tidbit

Quote:
The annual Best Countries Report, conducted by US News and World Report, BAV Group, and the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, reserves an entire section for education. The report surveys thousands of people across 78 countries, then ranks those countries based upon the survey's responses. The education portion of the survey compiles scores from three equally-weighted attributes: a well-developed public education system, would consider attending university there, and provides top-quality education. As of 2021, the top ten countries based on education rankings are:
The United States
The United Kingdom
Germany
Canada
France
Switzerland
Japan
Australia
Sweden
The Netherlands


I don't see Finland or Singapore on this list so I am not sure where they took their surveys. Is a survey just an opinion?
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 11:50:01 AM
maybe Finland and Singapore didn't participate...or maybe they didn't want their results to be known?

This puts to rest any comment about the American school system.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 11:52:05 AM
hey, it just shows I can cherry pick just the rest of you can.
scoucer
Berlin  Germany
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2010
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 12:03:51 PM
Quote:
This puts to rest any comment about the American school system.


Oh, if you say so, but it happens to be Morris´s thread and the condition of the american education system plays an important role in his question about the standards of military recruitment.

Trevor


----------------------------------
`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 12:10:44 PM
I never said it puts an end to the thread...it just puts an end to the comments regarding the American school system.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 2:36:25 PM
Quote:
maybe Finland and Singapore didn't participate...or maybe they didn't want their results to be known?

This puts to rest any comment about the American school system.


Sadly it only reveals the shallow depth of your research.

I really wish that you would not try to conclude every discussion with some sort of declaration of victory when all you have proven is that your research is deficient.

I can tell you that US educators and those who study education in the US are greatly concerned with the outcomes that their K-12 system achieves. There are serious problems in the US public school system.

Please read this. It's from PEW Research. There are dozens of articles and studies from educational research organizations that corroborate what is said in the article and hell, what I have been saying.

[Read More]

Try Education Week and this article: Why Other Countries Keep Outperforming us. Note it is a 5 year old article but the general comments are still apt.

[Read More]

I admire the zeal with which the US investigates and reports on most aspects of life in the US. Education is no different.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) is also called the Nation's Report Card. NAEP assesses progress and decline in the achievement level of US students. Educators and curriculum designers want this data because they want to improve the system.

So NAEP is a made at home testing regimen for US students. You can buy the whole report but I will tell you that even as I have told you that the US K-12 system lags behind other peer nations in the world, the NAEP will tell you that there has been a decline in achievement levels over the last few years. I will also tell you that as NAEP is federally mandated, that many state education departments may debate some of the results reported.

Note that the decline over the last two years can be partially attributed to the pandemic situation in the US.

Please refrain from blanket victory statements unsupported by proper research.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 2:57:55 PM
many don't take into effect how different the US education system is compared to the rest of the world.

The first is between local and national control of education: our federalist system puts state and local governments in charge of education, not the federal government. The second is between private and public schools: public schools receive government funding and are subject to rules and regulations to ensure that the funds are used appropriately, whereas private schools do not receive government funding and are given more freedom over what their educational programs look like and how their funds are used.

Some countries that outperform the United States have a national curriculum or nationally-mandated exams, but so do many that perform worse.

Bottom line....US students leave school with a collection of assessments that demonstrate their readiness for college or work.

https://www.edweek.org/education/opinion-why-u-s-schools-are-simply-the-best/2012/10

George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 4:14:22 PM
You have a federation to the north of you that has better outcomes than the US at the elementary and secondary level. Education is the responsibility of the provinces. There is no national curriculum in Canada though there are similarities from province to province.

And I can tell you that we are not happy and greatly concerned about getting better. To do that, we examine best practices internationally. It is only prudent to do so. And you know what? We aren't entirely happy. There is always room for improvement.

The truth is that the US has an equity problem driven by great poverty in some communities and regions. Examine the graduation rate within these poverty areas and the association is quite clear.

The link that you provided is an opinion piece from 2012. Apparently I have come to the end of my free access to this site so I don't know what it says.

Quote:
Bottom line....US students leave school with a collection of assessments that demonstrate their readiness for college or work.


Perhaps but the point is that those results may not be as good as those of international students who may be competitors for work.

In fact, one of the concerns expressed in the US is that colleges and universities do not prepare them for work.

Here's a little 2019 piece found in Forbes that addresses the issue.

Quote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brandonbusteed/2019/03/29/why-arent-graduates-ready-for-work-theyre-the-least-working-generation-in-us-history/?sh=7f9aa2b95e58


If you would stop looking at this issue as one that challenges your view of American exceptionalism, you could possibly learn something but if there is the slightest suggestion that the US is not number one in some aspect of life, you immediately assume a position as defender of the flag. Wholly unproductive.
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2342
Joined: 2020
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 5:21:06 PM
I wasn't going to bite but guess I have no self control...

I would just add the US has some great universities no doubt but the system is a disgrace. It saddles wide eyed learners with huge debts even before one starts out in life, while the rich can easily absorb such costs, the middle class parents usually have to put a second mortgage on their homes or the student starts out with one arm tied behind their back with egregious loans that cant be dismissed even with bankruptcy, I have heard of cases where folks have their social security docked in their old age to pay back these loans. Secondary education in the US does not do enough to steer students into the trades which are valuable life skills that would provide many with skills this county needs desperately. Public schools in this country are also as good as how much money there is in the community as George suggests. To suggest the US has the best educational system in the world may be true if the student comes from a wealthy background where money is no object. As a product of the US educational system and state universities I can attest to this. I was able to pay back my student loans and was able to work in the summers to put a huge dent into my tuition that is no longer possible as working summers these days might just be able to buy books and put a little spending money in ones pocket. For someone to suggest the US has the best education system in the world makes sense because that person must be a product of such a system to suggest such nonsense or is themselves extremely well off.

vpatrick
----------------------------------
nuts
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 10:26:34 PM
The population of Canada is less than the population of California.
So education wise, you are dealing with a tremendously smaller number of students to educate.

As far as American exceptionalism, I didn't make us the City on the Hill.

NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/16/2022 10:33:18 PM
1. Our system is such a disgrace that our Ivy League schools and service academes turn away countless number of Americans who want to go to school there.

2. Private schools are expensive. State universities are affordable.

3. I'm calling malarky on Social security payment s being docked. If you derive most of your income from Social Security, you don't have to pay off your student loans.

4. What America provides is a free public school education for all students.

5. Plus our students are taught to think on their feet.

As far as the cost of books etc...we call that Capitalism. You believe in Capitalism don't you?

morris crumley
Dunwoody GA USA
Posts: 3080
Joined: 2007
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 11:29:57 AM
Some push-back:

Our Ivy League schools.....like Harvard for example...have over 30 billion (that`s with a B) billion dollars in endowments funds....yet tripled and quadrupled tuition costs above the inflation rates for years. They took full advantage of government taking over student loans to load up on more money through higher costs...and this while the country was suffering the effects of the housing crisis. And they greedily did this while the bulk of their professors pushed the notion that oil and gas companies, lending institutions and investments firms, and others were "greedy bastards."
If you are an Asian student with great credentials who wants to go to Princeton or Harvard,( and others) you find that, though you are a minority here...you are not the right minority...and you face discrimination in enrollment.

Public schools don`t provide free anything, they are funded by the taxpayers who, in turn, are told they have no business or say in their own kids curriculum or school experience. And the relatively larger sum of money spent on "teaching" our kids does not seem to extend to teaching science and math, geography and a balanced history (no," drag-queen reading at the library day " is not a sufficient substitute.)

Students seem to be taught, not to think on their feet, but to think only one acceptable way...and don`t question it.

In our Military, both Milley and Austin, push CRT and 1619 crap as legitimate instruction at our academies....despite hundreds of legitimate history scholars deriding the 1619 project as being "junk history" and not really accurate.

This is the pool that we depend on for filling out the rolls of enlistment and defending our country. They are being short-changed by disgraceful educators...and though they enlist to defend their country...they are taught it isn`t worth fighting for!

Respects, Morris
----------------------------------
"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 12:40:29 PM
I love push back!!

1. The Ivy League.....technically a football conference. But, some of the best schools in the country with some excellent professors. What they charge for tuition is their business. How ever, I do know that some Ivy League schools..like Princeton, waive for families earning less that $100,000/year. At Harvard, If your family's income is less than $75,000, you'll pay nothing. Yale meets 100% of demonstrated financial need for all admitted students regardless of citizenship or immigration status.

2. In California, in-state tuition is $6817: out-of-state Titian is $18697. In NYS, in-state tuition is$7070: out-of-state tuition is $16980. Tuition at the service academies is $0.

3. A liberal arts education builds strong communication skills, both in writing and speaking. For example, a liberal arts education builds strong communication skills, both in writing and speaking. Undergraduates learn to make persuasive arguments backed by evidence and communicate their ideas to diverse groups.

Push-back is encouraged.

4. At least the men and women who attend the service academies study CRT since they will lead Americans in battle, not whites or blacks or hispanics. It aides them in leadership.

5. CRT is an academic pursuit anyway.

6. From my study of the Civil War, just doing away with slavery did not make the Afro-American free. It took 250 years to free the Afro-American from bondage, and then it took another 100 years for the Afro-American to receive the benefits of the US Constitution....benefits a white man obtained at birth.

Respectfully submitted, NYGiant


jahenders
Colorado Springs CO USA
Posts: 675
Joined: 2017
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 1:05:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Current world rankings for education in 2022 has China as number one then:
Korea, Finland, Hong Kong, Singapore Canada, New Zealand, Japan, Australia and the Netherlands.
Data from World Population Review.

Shots fired, ducking behind cover!


The odd thing is that for most educators these rankings usually promote interest in those countries to determine their best practices. It can be as simple as asking how the South Koreans teach mathematics. What is their methodology?

It can be more complex and involve different issues like teacher qualifications, salaries or teacher autonomy in the classroom.

A chance to learn then.


It does cause a lot of politicians to look at those other countries and say, "We should do everything like they do."
Usually, however, these politicians ignore the huge systematic differences between us and those other countries.

That's not to say that we shouldn't try to learn from others, but we need to consider all of the differences as we do so and not assume we can just dump another process in place.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 3:39:50 PM
Quote:
1. Our system is such a disgrace that our Ivy League schools and service academes turn away countless number of Americans who want to go to school there.

2. Private schools are expensive. State universities are affordable.

3. I'm calling malarky on Social security payment s being docked. If you derive most of your income from Social Security, you don't have to pay off your student loans.

4. What America provides is a free public school education for all students.

5. Plus our students are taught to think on their feet.

As far as the cost of books etc...we call that Capitalism. You believe in Capitalism don't you?




It is clear that post secondary education is not affordable for all and that too many young Americans are graduating with crippling debt. Why did your President decide to eat the cost of this debt.

There are countries that will provide free education at the university level. I would like my country to progress to that level as long as the candidates are qualified to be there. Education is a great leveller and drags people out of poverty which is the root cause of many of the deficiencies of the K-12 system.

Quote:
4. What America provides is a free public school education for all students.


Clearly a socialist policy at work here. Can't have that. Education should be reserved for the wealthy in a capitalist system.

Quote:
Plus our students are taught to think on their feet.


Interesting statement. How do you know that your school curriculum encourages creative thought? Did you just toss it out there? Any evidence to substantiate this assertion.

I submit that an over emphasis on standardized testing may actually stifle creative thought.

Also, what makes you think that other school systems across the world aren't aspiring to the same outcome?


RE: Books and school supplies. For some students the cost of these supplies limits their ability to succeed. Some students who are on the edge financially simply choose to try to get by without a text. There are studies that show that students who cannot afford a textbook are more likely to drop a course.

Fortunately the colleges and universities are fighting back against the capitalist SOB's who sell these books. They are starting to develop their own called Open Educational Resources. There has been some criticism that they aren't quite as good as published textbooks but it seems that the students using OER do as well as students who purchase the textbook.

As well, the publishers of university texts are fond of re-releasing a textbook with only minor modifications and if that is all that is in the campus book store, students are compelled to buy them. A healthier used book market would be helpful.
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 3:46:05 PM
Average student debt in US by state.

People are graduating looking at $25-30 K on average. Some areas of study will cost a lot more of course.

[Read More]
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 4:03:37 PM
Quote:
[


It is clear that post secondary education is not affordable for all and that too many young Americans are graduating with crippling debt. Why did your President decide to eat the cost of this debt.

Joe Biden forgave loans for a few reasons. First of all, these young Americans vote and they tend to vote for the Democratic Party, the same political party that Joe belongs to. Second, it will allow young Americans to contribute to the economy via purchase power of the dollar. Third, it will allow young Americans to save money. Fourth, It may allow young Americans to buy a new home.



Quote:
4. What America provides is a free public school education for all students.


Clearly a socialist policy at work here. Can't have that. Education should be reserved for the wealthy in a capitalist system.


You mean where you live, parents have to pay tuition to send their children to a public school? Not like that in the US.



Quote:
Plus our students are taught to think on their feet.


Interesting statement. How do you know that your school curriculum encourages creative thought? Did you just toss it out there? Any evidence to substantiate this assertion.

More so in the undergraduate and universities than in secondary school. However, it does exist in secondary schools via curriculums that expose the students to controversial books, modern texts, and problem solving in the field. Didn't you take a course in surveying in college? Did you take science courses where they had labs? Did you do experiments in college?

In law, here in the US we have moot court.
In Medicine, we have acting internships.




.

jahenders
Colorado Springs CO USA
Posts: 675
Joined: 2017
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 4:19:13 PM
Quote:

It is clear that post secondary education is not affordable for all and that too many young Americans are graduating with crippling debt. Why did your President decide to eat the cost of this debt.

There are countries that will provide free education at the university level. I would like my country to progress to that level as long as the candidates are qualified to be there. Education is a great leveller and drags people out of poverty which is the root cause of many of the deficiencies of the K-12 system.


RE: Books and school supplies. For some students the cost of these supplies limits their ability to succeed. Some students who are on the edge financially simply choose to try to get by without a text. There are studies that show that students who cannot afford a textbook are more likely to drop a course.

Fortunately the colleges and universities are fighting back against the capitalist SOB's who sell these books. They are starting to develop their own called Open Educational Resources. There has been some criticism that they aren't quite as good as published textbooks but it seems that the students using OER do as well as students who purchase the textbook.
.


To answer your first question about student loan debt -- "Why did your President decide to eat the cost of this debt?"
- That's simple -- to buy good will and/or votes in the lead up to the November mid-term elections.
- In particular, he's buying support among those who have incurred a lot of debt and those who do not pay much in the way of taxes.

As far as expensive university texts, the biggest offenders are the professors themselves, many of whom write a book and then insist that the students buy that book. In that case, there ARE no used books or they're only the wrong version. Basically the professors create a monopoly on required textbooks. Relatively few universities are willing to tell their professors, "All sessions of class X will use this book" so the professor can use whatever they want and, if they've written a book, they use that book. No one shows any consideration for what's best for the students.

Jim
jahenders
Colorado Springs CO USA
Posts: 675
Joined: 2017
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 4:28:53 PM
Quote:
Jim, sorry it took so long, what you said about the differing jobs and the lack of need for the same standards of fitness is true.....but it has always been the case in the military. There has always been logistics, communications, etc. It`s not new, and I don`t see why fitness requirements suddenly need to be lowered for anyone.

I wouldn`t care if the guy next to me in the field was fat....all I care about is if that guy is capable of carrying my shot up butt for some considerable distance, out of harm, without collapsing from a coronary!

Respects always, Morris


Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting that standards should be lowered for everyone. Rather, the military should consider/study lowering the basic minimum fitness requirements (that all must meet at entry), but should still have considerably/much more rigorous standards for career fields that truly require them (infantry, special forces, etc.).

Doing so would require changing basic training, but that could be a good thing. Perhaps this ultimately winds up shortening basic training by a week or two, while increasing SOME specialty schools by a few days.

One other aspect to consider is medical treatment and cost
- The military places great emphasis on military fitness and uses it as a major factor for promotion
- This can be a good thing, but also leads to a LOT of injuries (sprains, shin splints, knee and other joint issues, etc.)
- I would LOVE to see any of the services calculate the REAL, COMPLETE cost of their fitness efforts because it probably averages something a week of lost work per person/per year, the purchase/use of mountains of painkillers (Naprosyn is often jokingly called "Vitamin N" because it is so heavily prescribed by military doctors), plus quite a few expensive surgeries

Again, none of this suggests that the military should eliminate fitness standards or grossly reduce them across the board, just that they should do a real cost-benefit analysis and enforce standards where appropriate.

Jim

Jim
vpatrick
MA MA USA
Posts: 2342
Joined: 2020
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 4:33:32 PM
Quote:
1. Our system is such a disgrace that our Ivy League schools and service academes turn away countless number of Americans who want to go to school there.



3. I'm calling malarky on Social security payment s being docked. If you derive most of your income from Social Security, you don't have to pay off your student loans.





malarky eh


[Read More]
----------------------------------
nuts
George
Centre Hastings ON Canada
Posts: 12683
Joined: 2009
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 5:07:46 PM
Quote:
Quote:
[


It is clear that post secondary education is not affordable for all and that too many young Americans are graduating with crippling debt. Why did your President decide to eat the cost of this debt.

Joe Biden forgave loans for a few reasons. First of all, these young Americans vote and they tend to vote for the Democratic Party, the same political party that Joe belongs to. Second, it will allow young Americans to contribute to the economy via purchase power of the dollar. Third, it will allow young Americans to save money. Fourth, It may allow young Americans to buy a new home.



Quote:
4. What America provides is a free public school education for all students.


Clearly a socialist policy at work here. Can't have that. Education should be reserved for the wealthy in a capitalist system.


You mean where you live, parents have to pay tuition to send their children to a public school? Not like that in the US.



Quote:
Plus our students are taught to think on their feet.


Interesting statement. How do you know that your school curriculum encourages creative thought? Did you just toss it out there? Any evidence to substantiate this assertion.

More so in the undergraduate and universities than in secondary school. However, it does exist in secondary schools via curriculums that expose the students to controversial books, modern texts, and problem solving in the field. Didn't you take a course in surveying in college? Did you take science courses where they had labs? Did you do experiments in college?

In law, here in the US we have moot court.
In Medicine, we have acting internships.




.



Another confusing post. NYGiant you made some comment about capitalism and I wanted you to realize that fully subsidized public school is a social programme that should be incompatible with unfettered and unregulated capitalism. And yet you have it. Canada is a progressive country and yes all children are educated for free in the public school system.

You do realize that your limited description of a high school and college curriculum is not unique to the US, don't you. Oh my gosh, labs, moot court and internships for aspiring MD's. What will they think of next? Good grief man, expand your horizons. There's a big world out there beyond the US borders.
NYGiant
home  USA
Posts: 715
Joined: 2021
Who`s going to follow, when the call is "follow me."
10/17/2022 5:42:25 PM
In the US, Public schools for students in kindergarten through 12th grade (K-12) are financed through a combination of local, state, and federal dollars in proportions that vary across and within states. Students don't pay a thing. Local school boards decide where the money is wisely spent, and not the State nor Federal government. Fully compatible with capitalism.

You didn't take any lab courses? There's a big world full of kinds of courses just for the taking! And I did!

In the US most students read The diary of Anne Frank, To Kill a Mocking Bird, Catcher in the Rye. Tom Sawyer, On Walden Pond, books that are banned in countries that inhibit free thought.

MDs where you come from don't do acting internships? Lawyers don't participate in Moot court?
Page 2 of 3 (Page:  1    2    3 )

© 2023 - MilitaryHistoryOnline.com LLC