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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Right now on PBS stations, the latest production of Ken Burns, the Holocaust and the United States , is being shown . This is a rather dark period in our history as the US deliberately limited the immigration of people from Eastern Europe. Burns starts with the unlimited immigration into the US, and then step by step shows us the laws that first limited the Chinese, and then limited Japanese and then Eastern Europeans , despite the US being a Nation of immigrants.
In parallel, is the rise of Nazi Germany and the assault against Jews, and the comparing of our history with westward expansion and the German idea of Lebensraum.
There is a rather serious indictment of the US State Department in the 1st episode. FDR brought change to Washington DC with his election, and evidently had more Jews as Cabinet members and more Jews in his administration that any other in our history. Burns shows that the State department was reluctant to change and remained a very conservative part of the Government. Anti-semitism was rife at State, and it was diplomates in foreign countries that actually limited and denied those applying for immigration.
The US. after World War I was an anti-semitic nation, intent on limiting the immigration of Jews.
The episodes are long and I found that my concentration was waning towards the end. I suggest one take each episode and divide it into 2 to get the full impact.
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scoucer
Berlin
Germany
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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This did come up on my youtube recommendations. But I´ve got a lot to do at the moment. Put it in "später ansehen". Will look at it when I have the time.
Trevor
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`Hey don´t the wars come easy and don´t the peace come hard`- Buffy Sainte-Marie
Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.
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jahenders
Colorado Springs
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Quote: Right now on PBS stations, the latest production of Ken Burns, the Holocaust and the United States , is being shown . This is a rather dark period in our history as the US deliberately limited the immigration of people from Eastern Europe. Burns starts with the unlimited immigration into the US, and then step by step shows us the laws that first limited the Chinese, and then limited Japanese and then Eastern Europeans , despite the US being a Nation of immigrants.
In parallel, is the rise of Nazi Germany and the assault against Jews, and the comparing of our history with westward expansion and the German idea of Lebensraum.
There is a rather serious indictment of the US State Department in the 1st episode. FDR brought change to Washington DC with his election, and evidently had more Jews as Cabinet members and more Jews in his administration that any other in our history. Burns shows that the State department was reluctant to change and remained a very conservative part of the Government. Anti-semitism was rife at State, and it was diplomates in foreign countries that actually limited and denied those applying for immigration.
The US. after World War I was an anti-semitic nation, intent on limiting the immigration of Jews.
The discussion of FDR bringing 'change' is interesting. While this seems to be true WRT Jews and Anti-Semitism, this is the same president that literally imprisoned over 100K Japanese Americans in concentration camps via executive order 9066
- I haven't seen the show yet, so I don't know how (or whether) Burns covered this aspect. However, it seems literally insane for anyone to consider FDR 'progressive' for having more Jews in his cabinet, while simultaneously constructing his own concentration camps (in which about 2K people died).
Jim
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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From what I understand, FDR had more Jews in his Administration than any other previous President.
I think the proper term is..internment camps.
Certainly this was not FDR's finest moment. I do know that what concerned the military was a Nisei 5th column. And there was the Ni'ihau Incident. It can be argued that the Niʻihau incident influenced decisions leading to the Japanese American internment on the continental United States.
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
MO USA
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Quote:
The discussion of FDR bringing 'change' is interesting. While this seems to be true WRT Jews and Anti-Semitism, this is the same president that literally imprisoned over 100K Japanese Americans in concentration camps via executive order 9066.
Nice, comparing the relocation camps with the extermination camps. High school level.
Imagine the Issei and Nisei were left in California. It was quite the redneck state back then. Some of those idiots might have poisoned a reservoir and kicked off a pogrom against the "Yellow Peril" on the West Coast. Imagine the slaughter, men, women, children. Protective custody kept them alive during the war.
Chuckle time: One woman demanded the same payment given the other internees when matters were finally settled. She hadn't been born yet but she was definitely in the camps during the last few months of the war.
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morris crumley
Dunwoody
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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He didn`t compare Japanese Internment Camps to "extermination" camps. He rightly pointed out that FDR tore over 100,000 Japanese Americans from their homes and businesses, and put them in the equivalent of a "concentration camp." Relocation is such a nice sunny term when used to describe when your boss transfers you to another city for your job if you get a raise and are alright with the change......it is not adequate to describe what was done to US citizens of Japanese heritage.
"Sorry....you must leave your homes, go to a place of cold climates and be concentrated together, surrounded by wire and armed guards....but don`t worry........it`s for your own good. Oh, and after we deprive you of your Constitutional rights and freedoms...we`ll come back a bit later and draft your sons to fight for the country that does this to you...and if they refuse, we`ll try `em as criminals!" That should give us all the willies.....it is something that creeps me out.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Morris, just to correct your comment...
On Jan. 5, 1942, the War Department reclassified Japanese American men from being draft-eligible to “enemy aliens” not eligible for the draft. Yet as the war continued into 1943, the U.S. government put out a call seeking Japanese American volunteers to join the army. Thousands of them rushed to sign up, agreeing to serve in a segregated all-Nisei unit under the command of white officers.
On the mainland, about 1,500 Nisei men volunteered from the 10 euphemistically named “relocation centers.” Of these, 805 were accepted into service, having satisfied a loyalty test administered only to incarcerated Nisei. Some used their Japanese language skills in the Military Intelligence Service in the Pacific theater, while others formed the 100th Infantry Battalion, which fought in Europe, including as a unit attached to the Nisei-staffed 442nd Regimental Combat Team.
The 442nd Regiment is best known as the most decorated in U.S. military history.
Respectfully submitted, NY Giant
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morris crumley
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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From Densho Encyclopedia: The phrase "draft resistance" refers to nearly 300 incarcerated Japanese Americans who resisted conscription into the United States Army under the Selective Service and Training Act of 1940.......resisters came from 8 of the ten War Relocation Authority camps....the largest number coming from the Poston and Heart Mountain camps. Most served time in federal prison.........
The honor that units such as the 442 Regiment earned does not extent to FDR, or his administration...it was in defiance of a country that violated their rights as citizens, and brought shame to itself.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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President Roosevelt activated the 442nd Regimental Combat Team on February 1, 1943. FDR's words...."Americanism is not, and never was, a matter of race or ancestry."
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The events which eventually convinced the War Department and President Franklin Roosevelt to create the segregated 442nd RCT included lobbying from significant supporters of the Japanese American community, the sterling training record of the 100th as well as the well-publicized efforts of the Varsity Victory Volunteers in Hawai'i for their year of service as volunteer labor for the U.S. Army.
https://encyclopedia.densho.org/442nd_Regimental_Combat_Team/
Respectfully submitted, NY Giant
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
MO USA
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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"He didn`t compare Japanese Internment Camps to "extermination" camps. "
Sorry, I must have read a different post.
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morris crumley
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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OP, Jim correctly mentioned that FDR sent 100,000 US citizens to "concentration camps." Rounding up members of a race or ethnic minority and forcing them into camps, outside of law, is the definition of a concentration camp. That`s all Jim did. You called it "very high school" yet you were the one who conflated "concentration camp" with "extermination camp." Jim never made that comparison. That`s all i`m saying.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Actually , those camps were internment camps.
Concentration camps imply the murder of innocent people, or of a genocide.
No one was put to death intentionally at any internment camp in the US. About 2000 did die, mostly elderly.
To compare the two is a-historical.
respectful submitted, NY Giant
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
MO USA
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Survival in the US relocation camps was 98%. That higher that the rate would have been if they hadn't be confined.
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DT509er
Santa Rosa
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Ken Burns and PBS.., get better sources!
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944.
“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Better than what?
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Ken Burns and PBS have produced some of the erudite and enlightening programs in the history of American television. His research is meticulous.
Having studied this period of American History and having read countless books and World War II and on the Holocaust,, his program approaches 100% accuracy.
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morris crumley
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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I think Dan is alluding to the "bent" of Ken Burns. He is an excellent filmmaker, but he does push his own ideological agendas as well. He rightfully used Charlottesville as an example of current antisemitism, but he skips the instances where Jesse Jackson calls NY City "Hymietown" or Jewish cemeteries being vandalized by leftists, or supporters of Obama saying that "he is being run by the "Jews," all of which are prime examples too. Only one side makes the cut. And there was also a bit of whitewashing FDR.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Last I checked, Jesse Jackson apologized for that comment.
Last I checked, quite a few cemeteries have been vandalized.
Last I checked, Jews make up a significant part of the Democratic Party.
These examples are hardly examples of any left wing instances of anti-semitism.
My study indicates that there was very little that FDR could do under the Law of the US, especially when he had to deal with Neutrality Laws which threatened our assistance to GB.
You are correct though about Charlottesville being an example of continued anti-semitism in the United States. In the 1930s during the Great Depression, Americans didn't want the Jews coming to the US for fear that they would take jobs away from them. Evidently that fear continues to this day.
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morris crumley
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Last I checked Jackson lied about having said it for days.
Last I checked, when talking with CBS about a Leslie Stahl interview, when told she was Jewish he said "She doesn`t look Jewish. She doesn`t sound Jewish." How are Jews supposed to look. How are Jews supposed to sound.
Last I checked, while defending Farrakhan`s comments on Jews, Jackson said that Jews quietly went to the gas chambers, they should have fought more every step of the way.
Respects, Morris
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"You are a $70, red-wool, pure quill military genius, or the biggest damn fool in northern Mexico."
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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last I checked, Jackson apologized for his comments.
So you agree with me about many cemeteries being vandalized and that Jews make up a significant part of the Democratic Party.
Could you give me a citation about Jackson's comment about Leslie Stahl? I'd like to read it in context.
Last I checked, some Jews did try to escape....they were murdered too.
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DT509er
Santa Rosa
CA USA
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Quote: I think Dan is alluding to the "bent" of Ken Burns. He is an excellent filmmaker, but he does push his own ideological agendas as well. He rightfully used Charlottesville as an example of current antisemitism, but he skips the instances where Jesse Jackson calls NY City "Hymietown" or Jewish cemeteries being vandalized by leftists, or supporters of Obama saying that "he is being run by the "Jews," all of which are prime examples too. Only one side makes the cut. And there was also a bit of whitewashing FDR.
Respects, Morris
Thank you Morris, you expressed my intent of thought succinctly.
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"American parachutists-devils in baggy pants..." German officer, Italy 1944.
“If your experiment needs statistics, you ought to have done a better experiment.” Lord Ernest Rutherford
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NYGiant
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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We call that ..."What-about-ism"
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jahenders
Colorado Springs
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Quote: Actually , those camps were internment camps.
Concentration camps imply the murder of innocent people, or of a genocide.
No one was put to death intentionally at any internment camp in the US. About 2000 did die, mostly elderly.
To compare the two is a-historical.
respectful submitted, NY Giant
Concentration camps may imply the murder of innocent people ... to you, but that is NOT the definition.
Brittanica says, "concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment, usually by executive decree or military order."
Merriam-Webster says, "a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard."
But, hey, what do they know?
While FDR's camps for Japanese-Americans may have been called internment camps, but they were quite literally used to concentrate Japanese-Americans so they could be watched and constrained.
It's very clear that those camps were very, very different from the concentration camps you're thinking of in Nazi Germany, nor did I suggest any equivalency.
My point was that pointing to FDR as someone strongly against racism (because of his representation of one ethnic group) is highly dubious in light of the blatantly racist act of interring Japanese-Americans and denying them of their constitutional rights.
- There is no reasonable argument that can consider that act anything but racist
Jim
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jahenders
Colorado Springs
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Quote: Survival in the US relocation camps was 98%. That higher that the rate would have been if they hadn't be confined.
That is true, but that doesn't imply that anyone is likely to be OK with being incarcerated in complete defiance of their constitutional rights.
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OpanaPointer
St. Louis
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The Holocaust and the United States.
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Where did I say that? Keep your tar baby brush in the bucket.
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