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The current time is: 10/21/2018 8:46:47 AM
 (1863) Battle of Gettysburg
AuthorMessage
Larry Purtell
USA
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E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 670

Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/25/2018 5:00:10 PM
From the Goodhue Volunteer, Red Wing Minnesota, July 22nd 1863


---------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.

phil andrade
London, UK
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/25/2018 5:28:09 PM
Larry,

You have managed, yet again, to track down these invaluable primal source newspaper articles.

Thank you.

Note the allusion to the ...seventy yet missing.....it was subsequently established that about one third of them had been killed.

Your efforts command my admiration.

Regards, Phil



---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4041

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/25/2018 5:36:24 PM
Phil,

I second that emotion whole heartedly! I mentioned to Larry to see if he could find any 1st hand accounts on the casualties of the 1st Minnesota! And the guy flat out delivers!

Thanks again Larry!
Regards,
MD

BTW Quite the sacrifice by this famous unit, at Gettysburg, and other eastern battles as well!
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Larry Purtell
USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 670

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/25/2018 5:43:51 PM
Given the high number of wounded and missing I would place the KIA/MW total well over 100, probably closer to 125. Of the seventy reported as still missing my guess would be most or all were MW or KIA. Staggering numbers.

Larry



---------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.

phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/25/2018 6:02:15 PM
Larry,

The names of the wounded, and the nature of their wounds, inspired me to check their fate by seeing if they survived their trauma.

Using Busey’s THESE HONORED DEAD, I sought to identify some of the wounded, and the details compel us to reflect on the horror of their fate.

For example, we see that preeminent amongst the list of wounded in Company K is Captain J Periam, head and face, severely .

I see that he was Shot in the head 2 July ( ball entered nose and exited in back of ear ) ; died 7 July at 2nd Division, II Corps Hospital .

Private C Ely was wounded in the abdomen. I was sure that I would find his name among the dead....but, no, he survived.

When we read about these casualties, it’s too easy to forget what ghastly suffering the wounded endured : being killed outright makes the headline, so to speak, but the measure of suffering and sacrifice is sometimes better attested by the ordeal of the wounded, especially those who died in agony in the following days.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Larry Purtell
USA
top 15
E-8 Master Sergeant


Posts: 670

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/26/2018 9:20:38 AM
From the Burlington Weekly Hawk-eye. Burlington Iowa. July 18. 1863


---------------
"My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.

Phil Andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/26/2018 12:39:04 PM
Larry,

What astonishing zeal for “ hard war “ that Burlington Hawkeye paper reveals !

The rebellion must be crushed, and overwhelmingly.

The extreme casualties suffered by the regiment does not blunt determination, but sharpens it .

The mid western states might not have exhibited strident abolitionism, but when it came to preserving the Union, they were red hot .

The western regiments in the AoP showed the same remarkable prowess in combat as did their confederate counterparts from the lower south in the AoNV.

The same could be said of the Dominion contingents in the British Commonwealth forces in the World Wars .

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

BWilson

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E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4672

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/26/2018 12:44:39 PM
The western regiments in the AoP showed the same remarkable prowess in combat

 I wonder if the case here was proximity to the frontier. Handling a firearm well was a useful skill.

Cheers,

BW
---------------
With occasional, fatigued glances at life's rear-view mirror from the other side of time.

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4041

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/26/2018 1:47:56 PM
Phil, or Larry,

Good observations, which leads us to ask what were casualty percentages for Native American CW Units out west? on both sides? And which side were Native Americans most likely to fight for in the Civil War?

Anything on this?
Thanks,
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Phil Andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 9/26/2018 4:42:26 PM

Quote:
The western regiments in the AoP showed the same remarkable prowess in combat

 I wonder if the case here was proximity to the frontier. Handling a firearm well was a useful skill.

Cheers,

BW
--BWilson


Yes, definitely, and , I would suggest, a determination to prove a societal point....that the ethos of rugged individualism could prevail over the effete elitism of established heirarchies.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/3/2018 4:25:59 PM

Quote:
Phil, or Larry,

Good observations, which leads us to ask what were casualty percentages for Native American CW Units out west? on both sides? And which side were Native Americans most likely to fight for in the Civil War?

Anything on this?
Thanks,
Dave
--Michigan Dave


Dave,

Forgive this belated reply.

Fox compiles a table of deaths in the Union army from all the states, and he states that the " Indian Nations " furnished 3,530 troops, of whom 1,018 - nearly 29% - died or were killed. Only 107 of them were killed in battle or died from wounds.


No information has been seen by me regarding their confederate counterparts.


I'll try and remedy that !


Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4041

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/3/2018 7:22:08 PM
Hi Phil,

Better late than never!

Thanks for keeping it in mind, you always have good info.!

Regards,
Dave

BTW You wonder how @ 9/10th of them died, if it wasn't in combat??
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/4/2018 4:22:09 AM

Quote:
Hi Phil,

Better late than never!

Thanks for keeping it in mind, you always have good info.!

Regards,
Dave

BTW You wonder how @ 9/10th of them died, if it wasn't in combat??
--Michigan Dave


Here you are, Dave :

Died from disease : 775.

Deaths from accidents and drowning : 10

Murdered : 11

Committed suicide : 1

Killed after capture : 1

Deaths from causes unclassified or unknown : 113

That amounts to 911 deaths from causes other than confirmed battle fatalities.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4041

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/4/2018 9:21:55 AM
Wow Phil,

Those figures are revealing, I heard that in general a large percentage of deaths in the CW were due to disease! But 10 murders!

Soldiers better watch their backs!?

Thanks again,
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Phil Andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/4/2018 12:46:50 PM
Dave,

Young men are accident prone, and the variety of mishaps that befall them in war never ceases to amaze me.

Hazards and hardship combined to take their toll , and the lethal squalour of camp, hospital and prison combined to make army life a truly deadly experience even before the lead started flying .

There were, I believe, quite a lot of murders in those days, even in civilian life .

Men in uniform resorted to violence against each other -on their own side - more frequently than many of us would care to think .

I would imagine that this propensity was enhanced in the contingents from the Indian Nations .

Editing here : an interesting point was raised by the speaker in a lecture I attended recently. Reflecting on the huge loss of life from disease in the war, he opined that, had the conflict been delayed for a generation, a great many of those deaths could have been avoided.....but then, he added, imagine how much more deadly the firepower would have been ; perhaps the overall toll of the war would have been even worse. Something to think about !

What say you ?

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

dick evick
Waco , TX, USA
top 40
E-4 Corporal
Posts: 236

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/4/2018 2:29:05 PM
I'm thankful the Gatling gun was not used in the ACW.

Dick.

Phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/5/2018 2:26:58 AM

Quote:
I'm thankful the Gatling gun was not used in the ACW.

Dick.
--dick evick



Yes !

And I’m thankful that you made that point, Dick.

So many commentators insist that the Gatling Gun was used in the war : it wasn’t.

Invented, maybe ; but used, no.

Even the impact of the firepower engendered by the rifling of the Springfields and Enfields, imparting greater range and accuracy to the musketry, has been exaggerated : the firefights were still conducted and concluded - by and large - at ranges of 150 yards or less. The old habits of black powder, muzzle loading warfare were alive and well in the American Civil War.

None knew this better than the soldiers of the 1st Minnesota.

The fate of that regiment exemplifies that of many in that war. Let me cite just three others : the 1st Texas at Antietam ; the 26th North Carolina at Gettysburg, and the Maine Heavy Artillerymen, deployed as infantry, at Petersburg. There are plenty of others. They all suffered casualty rates in excess of those suffered by any British regiment at Waterloo. But - and this intrigues me - the British army as a whole at Waterloo suffered a heavier proportionate loss in killed and wounded than did the AoP at Gettysburg. What does this tell us about the different way soldiers were deployed and fought ?

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

Michigan Dave
Muskegon, Michigan, MI, USA
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major


Posts: 4041

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/5/2018 10:13:12 AM
Phil,

"Deadlier, more effective weapons with older tactics & backward medicine = massive fatalities"!?

As far as the Civil War, goes pick your poison for casualties!?

A deadly dilemma??
Thanks for the insight,
Dave
---------------
"The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

phil andrade
London, UK
top 5
E-9 Cmd Sgt Major
Moderator
Posts: 3314

Re: Casualties in the 1st regiment, Minnesota voluteers.
Posted on: 10/6/2018 8:38:59 AM
Dave,

Here’s an indication of the difference that fifty years make :

Gettysburg, 1863, of all Union soldiers who were hit in the battle,17.4% were killed, 11.4% died from wounds, and 71.2 were left surviving with wounds.

In France and Flanders, 1914, of the British soldiers who were struck in combat, 24.5% were killled, 4.6% died from wounds and 70.9 % were surviving wounded.

Firepower became more deadly, more likely to kill men outright : the much greater proportion of artillery casualties being very apparent here. Medical care improved commensurately and helped restore the balance.

The upshot was that at Gettysburg, nearly 29% of all the men who were hit were mortally stricken ; in 1914 the proportion was almost identical, but the probability of being killed on the spot was significantly greater.

The biggest difference was in medical care of the sick : here the two experiences were aeons apart. In WW1, barley ten per cent of all British soldiers who died were victims of disease. In the Union army, 1861-65, more than sixty per cent of all recorded deaths were attributed to disease.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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