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 (1914-1918) WWI Battles
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anemone
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The "Hundred Days" in 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 3:44:56 AM
The BEF had taken part in the great retreat from Belgium to the Marne. In the aftermath of that battle it was decided to move the BEF north to Flanders, where it would have easy access to the channel ports. Travelling by train, II corps reached Abbeville on 8-9 October, III corps reached St. Omer on 10 October, with I corps following behind.

On 11 October IV corps (7th Division and 3rd Cavalry Division) was in the vicinity of Bruges and Ghent, moving west in the aftermath of an attempt to relieve the siege of Antwerp. Meanwhile larger German forces were advancing towards Ypres from the south and from the east. At the start of the battle elements of the Fourth and Sixth Armies would be involved in the German attacks on Ypres.

The First Battle of Ypres was a great Anglo-French battle. When the battle began, the BEF held the line from La Bassée to Langemarck, and by 22 October had taken over the last section of the salient, west of Langemarck. However, by 24 October the entire northern half of the Ypres salient was in French hands after the French IX Corps replaced the British 1st and 2nd Divisions.

The BEF then held the line down to La Bassée. The situation changed again as a result of the German attacks at the end of October, which threatened to break through the British lines south east of Ypres (battle of Gheluvelt). As the Germans pressed forward the line lengthened, and the French XVI corps arrived to fill the gap.



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Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The End of the First Hundred Days of 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 9:21:39 AM
Those Hundred Days fixtures feature prominently in military folklore, don’t they, Jim ?

The Hundred Days culminating in the defeat of Napoleon in 1815 ; the Hundred Days of the victorious advance from Amiens in 1918....and now we’ve got another one : the First Hundred Days from Britain's declaration of war on Germany to a closing climax of the First Battle of Ypres.

Yes, that actullay works if we go from 4 August 1914 to 11 November 1914, which is when British and Prussian guardsmen fought had to hand at Nonne Boschen.

I have to wonder whether the French would approve of this habit of sectioning off the war in hundred day periods.

Being that they’re people who use metric measures, you’d think they might endorse it !

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The First Hundred Days of 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 9:26:01 AM
To those who may be interested-a discussion can be started anywere you may wish to start ie. anywhere within the preamble should it be thought fit-it is absolutely OK with me.I have to agree Phil-the title is clumsy and probably been left at "The First Hundred Days" or "The First Battle of Ypres"Let me know your choice so thata change can be made

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Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The First Hundred Days of 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 10:09:25 AM
No, no ...I like these Hundred Days. And all honour to you for finding another one !

We’ve got one in the beginning, and one at the end. How about we find a Hundred Days in the middle ?

Passchendaele is often cited as a hundred day battle.

But we could find other contenders.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The "Hundred Days" of 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 10:20:27 AM
Now it is a question as to where to start--I cannot say that i am not too concerned as to where--you start where you please.

Regards

Jim
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anemone
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Re: The "Hundred Days" in 1914
Posted on: 5/21/2018 11:29:44 AM
Having moved north, the BEF, led by Field Marshal Sir John French, began arriving near the Belgian town of Ypres on October 14. A strategic location, Ypres was the last obstacle between the Germans and the key Channel ports of Calais and Boulogne-sur-Mer.

Conversely, an Allied breakthrough near the town would allow them to sweep across the relatively flat terrain of Flanders and threaten key German supply lines.

Coordinating with General Ferdinand Foch, who was overseeing French forces on the BEF's flanks, French desired to go on the offensive and attack east toward Menin. Working with Foch, the two commanders hoped to isolate the German III Reserve Corps, which was advancing from Antwerp, before swinging southeast to a position along the Lys River from which they could strike the flank of the main German line.For Map see post 1 -2md Read More

Unaware that large elements of Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg's Fourth Army and Rupprecht, Crown Prince of Bavaria's Sixth Army were approaching from the east, French ordered his command forward. Moving west, Fourth Army possessed several new large formations of reserve troops which included many recently enlisted students.

Despite the relative inexperience of his men, Falkenhayn ordered Albrecht to isolate Dunkirk and Ostend regardless of the casualti sustained.


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Jim
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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 4:12:19 AM
The combined strength the French,Belgian and British forces amounted to 4.4 million whereas the Germans could field 5.4 million.In October Kitchener promised an additional 24 Divisions but certainly not,as it happened ;in time-this campaign would be over a month before Xmas 1914.

Despite the evidence from the front, Sir John French remained convinced that the main German efforts would be made against the Belgians on the Yser and south of Ypres at La Bassée. He decided to go onto the attack, and ordered I corps to move into position north east of Ypres ready for the attack. The main effort of IV corps on 20 October went into maintaining its position in preparation for the upcoming attack.

The next phase of the fighting at Ypres is known as the Battle of Langemarck (21-24 October). Langemarck is a village to the north east of Ypres, which on 20 October was held by a French territorial unit. The British IV corps was located to the south, with the I corps about to come into the line. Sir John French, believing only one German corps was present at Ypres, ordered the I corps to launch an attack on 21 October.

At first this attack made some progress, but the British soon ran into much stronger German forces than expected. At 3.00pm Haig was forced to order a halt to the atta


NB.Is there something amiss with this topic??????

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Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 7:43:19 AM
Jim,

You allude to the combined strength of the Entente and Belgian forces aggregating 4.4 million, and state that the Germans could field 5.4 million.

This needs a very important qualification : the 5.4 million Germans had to cope with the Russians, as well as their foes in France and Flanders.

I would like to try and get some idea of the way the numbers stacked up on the Western Front itself .

Those figures you mention are not indicative of how many men were actually fighting each other during this phase of the war in France and Belgium.

My guess is that these millions you mention probably allow for troops all over the world, many of them in garrisons far away from the battles we’re discussing.

I’ll try and pitch in with some more constructive comments, to help things along.

Regards,

Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 8:08:32 AM
Phil i took those figures from the Wiki report on the 1st Battle of Ypres and as i dod not knowbetter I accepted them--bloody silly to list the entire German forces on a single battle report.Perhaps the casualties portray a more accurate picture
-
British casualties in the fighting between 14 October and 30 November were 58,155 (7,960 dead, 29,562 wounded and 17,873 missing). It is often said that the pre-war professional army died at the first battle of Ypres. The army had arrived in France with 84,000 infantry. By the end of the battle of Ypres, the BEF had suffered 86,237 casualties, most to that infantry.

The French suffered around 50,000 casualties during the battle.

The fighting at Ypres played a major role in forming a bond between the British and French armies. The two armies had fought side by side around Ypres in a way they had not in the earlier battles of the war.

German casualties are more difficult to assess. The German official history of the war divides the fighting around Ypres and the Yser into a different set of three battles (Lille, 15-28 October, The Yser, 18 October-30 November and Ypres, 30 October-24 November), covering different sections of the front. The total German casualties during all three battles were calculated as 134,315 (19,530 dead, 83520 wounded and 31265 missing). This figure includes 75,000 casualties suffered in what the Germans called the battle of the Yser, which covered the fighting from Gheluvelt to the sea.

Many of the German casualties at Ypres were suffered by the volunteer corps raised at the outbreak of the war. Amongst these volunteers were a large number of university students, exempt from the draft during their period of study.

25,000 of these student volunteers were killed at Ypres, their enthusiasm unable to make up for their lack of experience. The battle would later be known as the “Kindermord bei Ypern”, the “massacre of the innocents at Ypres”

NB. BEF strength is shown as 163,897 ie. a 50% casualty rate.It is the French and German numbers which have been totalised

Regards

Jim.
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 8:42:31 AM
Jim,

Here’s something that might be useful in assessing those casualties. For the British, First Ypres accounts for virtually all the battle casualties suffered in France and Flanders in October and November , 1914. There was some desultory fighting around Antwerp, and there were casualties in the dying moments of the battle of the Aisne as the British forces were moved northwards into Flanders....but it’s a safe bet that, of all the Western Front casualties suffered by the BEF in those two months, 95% were suffered during First Ypres.

Now consider the French point of view.

They fought hard and effectively alongside the British in those furious engagements of Ypres/Yser. During those battles they took casualties on a similar scale to those of the British. But - and this is of major importance - those amounted to no more than one quarter of all their Western Front casualties for the months of October and November, 1914. There must have been intense and prolonged fighting in other sectors that we, as British, know little, and care even less, about.

As for the Germans, we might legitimately assume that their casualties on the Western Front in October and November 1914 were not less than one quarter of a million ; of these, in the order of one half were attributable to the Ypres/Yser battles.

At least 100,000 additional German casualties were suffered elsewhere in France during that period, but I, for one, wouldn’t know where and when they occurred.

I suppose that, as the rival armies moved northwards in an attempt to outflank each other - that misnamed “ Race to the Sea “ - they left behind them significant contingents to the south that still grappled on as the frontlines solidified.

There’s another thing that needs to be emphasised : just after First Ypres had reached a crescendo, there was a big German offensive against the Russians and a desperate battle around a city called Łódź . This was, in effect, the first German drive on Warsaw. As a bloodbath , it rivalled Ypres, with the Germans admitting to 100,000 casualties, of whom “ 36,000 were laid to their final rest in the fighting area.”

At much the same time, the Ottomans launched an attack into the underbelly of Tsarist Russia in the Caucasus , and in so doing sustained a dreadful defeat, with the freezing battlefield compounding the effects of the carnage .

As to what the Austro Hungarian armies underwent in the Hundred Days in 1914, the mind boggles. Defeat and humiliation at the hands of Serb and Russian.

If total British casualties in those Hundred Days were approaching the 100,000 mark, those of the Continental armies were more like a million - or even near two million - apiece.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 9:44:25 AM
"If total British casualties in those Hundred Days were approaching the 100,000 mark, those of the Continental armies were more like a million - or even near two million - apiece." Phil.

That figure accounts for the rather grandiose description of "Destruction on an Army" It was the combined total of all casualties from Mons to Nonnen Boschen.

Nonneboschen

And it’s from Nonneboschen (or Nun’s Copse, a small tree-filled area too small even to be a wood, just south of Polygon Wood) that it comes. Just behind Nonneboschen have massed the Engineers, the drivers, the quartermasters, the signallers, the cooks, the walking wounded. Gunners who’ve been forced away from their guns have now taken up rifles. The German attack is faltering slightly. They need to pause and reorganise before they can make one more push through the line.

They’re joined by the 2nd Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshires L I (Ox & Bucks), and just as the Germans take their pause for breath, they counter-attack through Nonneboschen. German reinforcements are trying to reach their mates, but they’re being enfiladed by the remnants of the Cameron Highlanders as they come up the road. How many more reinforcements will Tommy bring up? Too many for them. More than they can resist. They break off the attack, retire a few hundred yards to a less exposed position, and begin digging in again. The BEF looks to counter-attack them before they can settle in, but take heavy friendly fire from French artillery further round the salient.

In the evening, it begins to rain; and as the sun sets, the rain turns to hail. The mud is ankle deep in places. Shell-holes, trenches, and craters begin rapidly filling with water. The Germans have not yet given up all hope of taking Ypres, but they’ll not be able to attack in this kind of force again. The official end of the First Battle of Ypres is another week away, but the line has been re-established. The line holds.

And as night falls, the sappers put down their rifles and take up their shovels again. The ditches on the edge of the salient begin spreading out to meet their fellows. The final piece in the puzzle is being put into place. Soon the trenches will stretch all the way from Belgium to Switzerland.

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 10:04:13 AM
Destruction of an army ....eighty six thousand casualties by the end of November, 1914. Not much compared with ten times that number of Frenchmen , and one million Germans .....but, bearing in mind the relatively tiny size of the BEF, and the total commitment of its professional cadre, that phrase is fully justified.

The British were excessively overdrawn, and were left in a vulnerable situation ; subsequent drafts were deployed in a manner that compounded casualties.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 11:02:38 AM
Casualties--1st Ypres 1914

In 1925, Edmonds recorded that the Belgians had suffered a great number of casualties from 15–25 October, including 10,145 wounded. British casualties from 14 October – 30 November were 58,155, French losses were 86,237 men and of 134,315 German casualties in Belgium and northern France, from 15 October – 24 November, 46,765 losses were incurred on the front from the Lys to Gheluvelt, from 30 October – 24 November.

In 2003, Beckett recorded 50,000–85,000 French casualties, 21,562 Belgian casualties, 55,395 British losses and 134,315 German casualties.[62] In 2010, Sheldon recorded 54,000 British casualties, c. 80,000 German casualties, that the French had many losses and that the Belgian army had been reduced to a shadow.

Sheldon also noted that Colonel Fritz von Lossberg had recorded that up to 3 November, casualties in the 4th Army were 62,000 men and that the 6th Army had lost 27,000 men, 17,250 losses of which had occurred in Armeegruppe Fabeck from 30 October – 3 November. Source--Wikipedia

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 12:46:11 PM
The enormity of that Hundred Days in 1914 - from the kick off at the beginning of August to mid November - is a unique event in history.

We can safely assume one and a half million casualties on the Western Front : in fact, rather more than that. Germany alone lost two thirds of a million in France and Flanders during that period, with additional losses against the Russians to reckon with.

As for the huge battles on the Eastern Front, I would guess a significantly higher figure.

Even gallant little Serbia, in its own theatre of operations against the Austrians, lost twice as many as the British.

The Austrians, and their Hungarian brothers in arms, took monstrous punishment .

We have to guess about Russian figures.

I would venture a figure of four million casualties in 100 days, all belligerents, all fronts.

Forty thousand a day, on average.

With four more years to go.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 1:00:29 PM
This was a critical tactical victory for the Allies,due in the main to German indeciceness; the First Battle of Ypres saw the BEF sustain 7,960 killed, 29,562 wounded, and 17,873 missing, while the French incurred between 50,000 and 85,000 casualties of all types.

To the north, the Belgians took 21,562 casualties during the campaign. German losses for their efforts in Flanders totaled 19,530 killed, 83,520 wounded, 31,265 missing. Many of the German losses were sustained by the reserve formations that had been comprised of students and other youths. As a result, their loss was dubbed the "Massacre of the Innocents of Ypres."

With winter approaching, both sides began digging in and constructing the elaborate trench systems that would characterize the front for the remainder of the war. The Allied defence at Ypres ensured that the war in the West would not be over quickly as the Germans desired. Fighting around the Ypres salient would resume in April 1915 with the Second Battle of Ypres.Thus stalemate set in.

PS Big Question--what next??? I am afraid that I am devoid of any ideas....2nd Ypres ???

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 2:23:35 PM
Jim,

Did I or did I not do my very best to enlarge on the Hundred Days theme and pitch in with some ideas as to how we might assess the First Battle of Ypres as against battles that were raging on other fronts ?

Sorry that my efforts were failures.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/22/2018 3:00:10 PM
Phil--you did not fail me --i failed myself for not sticking to my original idea of going over in full the 100 days .Phil--belive me when I say that the failure was all mine--you did your utmost to come back to the original idea but I got stuck in the rut of 1st Ypres. But do not think too ill of me.YOU dug ME out of a hole.

Regards

Jim
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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 4:29:14 AM
The Race to the Sea now became the Battle of Flanders. The Germans made repeated attempts to break through the new Allied line, without success. The line of the Western Front would remain almost entirely static for the next two years, only changing in early 1917 when the Germans voluntarily withdrew from the Somme battlefield to the Hindenburg Line. The period of mobile warfare was over, and the period of trench warfare had begun.

The Race to the Sea is perhaps not the best name for this series of events. It implied that the troops involved all came from the Aisne, and were dashing north to extend the line. This was not true on either side. Some of the troops involved had been transferred Lorraine, while others were coming in from Antwerp (Belgian and German) or from the channel coast (British and French). New troops were thrown into the fight as quickly as they became available.

The name also implies that one or the other side wanted to reach the coast. When the race began neither side wanted it to end on the coast. Both sides were aimed to get around their opponents exposed northern flank, the Germans with the hope of winning the decisive final battle, or at least of capturing all of the channel ports, the French in the hope of getting behind the German armies that had advanced to the Marne. The Race to the Sea ended in a failure for both side.

Regards

Jim
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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 8:13:27 AM
Phpl said the STATISTICS OF THE MILITARY EFFORT OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE, which tabulates deaths up till 1920 (?) gives a total of 947,000 deaths for all fronts, all services except for the Merchant Navy. The CWGC, whose mandate goes a year or so beyond 1920, gives a total of more than 1.1 million ; the difference is about one sixth, which is pretty significant. The 1914 figures from the two sources do differ, but not by that margin.

Another aspect of the 1914 casualties - and here I allude to the British experience, although I daresay it applies to some other armies - is that the proportion of officers killed as against other ranks was higher than it was in the following years. More close quarters fighting, with a greater incidence of direct fire, perhaps ? Different from the great artillery battles that came later.

German casualties on the Western Front in 1914 were in the order of three quarters of a million. September was their worst month, accounting for about one third of the year's total. They were to suffer their greatest loss in killed in March and April 1918....despite the tactical skills they are supposed to have displayed. The number of German officers killed during that period was also uniquely high, both in absolute numbers and in proportion to other ranks.

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 9:16:56 AM
Jim,

You do me honour by citing that post I made some time ago about the varying reports of casualties, and the proportions of officers contained therein.

The so called “ Race to the Sea “ might be compared with Grant’s Overland Campaign against Lee in the early summer of 1864....two armies side stepping each other as they sought to outflank, fierce encounter battles and great slaughter.

In fact, the casualties sustained by the BEF at First Ypres and the Union army in the Overland Campaign bear an uncanny similarity : from early May to mid June, 1864, there were 55,000 Union casualties in the fighting between the Wilderness and Cold Harbor ; the BEF, between mid October and later November 1914, also took about 55,000 casualties in the First Ypres battles. The numbers posted as confirmed killed were almost identical.

For the British, First Ypres was the “Little Round Top “ moment of the Great War. I wonder if, like Little Round Top at Gettysburg , there is a tendency to extol- and, perhaps, exaggerate - the importance of the action as it enters national folklore . On reflection, I’m bound to endorse the view that First Ypres was an existential crisis for the British, and that the Entente was imperilled. The German losses testify to the enormity of the effort and the nature of the stakes.

Set against the backdrop of the Great War, it was but one episode - albeit an intense one - in an ocean of massacre.

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 9:45:36 AM
My thanks for the analogies that you have portrayed vis a vid Great War ans ACW-they are most oddly coincidental in their environments and butchers bill.The statement I show below -how do feel about the conclusions drawn.???

"1st Ypres was a critical tactical victory for the Allies,due in the main to German indeciceness; the First Battle of Ypres saw the BEF sustain 7,960 killed, 29,562 wounded, and 17,873 missing, while the French incurred between 50,000 and 85,000 casualties of all types.

To the north, the Belgians took 21,562 casualties during the campaign. German losses for their efforts in Flanders totaled 19,530 killed, 83,520 wounded, 31,265 missing. Many of the German losses were sustained by the reserve formations that had been comprised of students and other youths. As a result, their loss was dubbed the "Massacre of the Innocents of Ypres."

With winter approaching, both sides began digging in and constructing the elaborate trench systems that would characterize the front for the remainder of the war. The Allied defence at Ypres ensured that the war in the West would not be over quickly as the Germans desired. Fighting around the Ypres salient would resume in April 1915 with the Second Battle of Ypres.Thus stalemate set in."

PS I am having great difficulty in c;osing being bereft of the New Posts caption.It is as if I had not logged on-my post is there but you are shown as LAST poster

Regards

Jim

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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 10:20:54 AM
Returning to The Race for the Sea

The focus of attention now swung even further north, to Flanders. The BEF began to arrive at Abbeville by train on 8-9 October, and at St. Omer on 10 October. Further north IV corps had been shipped to Ostend and Zeebrugge, to either help defend Antwerp or to help the Belgian army retreat. It was hoped that the British would be able to advance north east of Lille and outflank the German Sixth Army, fighting around Arras. Instead the advancing British ran into another new German army, the Fourth, under the Duke of Württemberg.

The result was a series of encounter battles, beginning at Le Bassée on 10 October and continuing north to Messines (12 October) and Armentieres (13 October). Meanwhile the Belgian army had left Antwerp and was heading west towards the Yser, while the British IV Corps was heading towards Ypres from the east.

On 14 October the Race to the Sea effectively ended when the British Cavalry Corps, advancing from the west, met the 3rd Cavalry Division, moving south west around Ypres. There was now a continuous allied from the North Sea to the Swiss border. On 18 October fighting began on the Yser (18 October-30 November).

The British continued to believe that there was a gap in the German line, this time around Ypres, and began to plan for another advance. Instead, on 19 October the British and French troops around Ypres came under German attack. The first battle of Ypres was underway.


Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 10:36:03 AM

Quote:
My thanks for the analogies that you have portrayed vis a vid Great War ans ACW-they are most oddly coincidental in their environments and butchers bill.The statement I show below -how do feel about the conclusions drawn.???

"1st Ypres was a critical tactical victory for the Allies,due in the main to German indeciceness; the First Battle of Ypres saw the BEF sustain 7,960 killed, 29,562 wounded, and 17,873 missing, while the French incurred between 50,000 and 85,000 casualties of all types.

To the north, the Belgians took 21,562 casualties during the campaign. German losses for their efforts in Flanders totaled 19,530 killed, 83,520 wounded, 31,265 missing. Many of the German losses were sustained by the reserve formations that had been comprised of students and other youths. As a result, their loss was dubbed the "Massacre of the Innocents of Ypres."

With winter approaching, both sides began digging in and constructing the elaborate trench systems that would characterize the front for the remainder of the war. The Allied defence at Ypres ensured that the war in the West would not be over quickly as the Germans desired. Fighting around the Ypres salient would resume in April 1915 with the Second Battle of Ypres.Thus stalemate set in."

PS I am having great difficulty in c;osing being bereft of the New Posts caption.It is as if I had not logged on-my post is there but you are shown as LAST poster

Regards

Jim

--anemone


The LAST poster ? That’s an appropriate title for any thread dealing with Ypres !

I endorse the conclusions, Jim, with a caveat :

Fighting around the Ypres salient would resume in April 1915 with the Second Battle of Ypres.

That implies that it was a quiet sector from the end of November until the following spring....but there was constant killing and wounding on a greater or lesser scale on a daily basis for the ensuing months and years, with several disitnct major operations , such as Second Ypres, being classified as pre-eminent battles.

One aspect of the First Ypres battle is worth mentioning : the enormous contribution of the British Cavalry Corps, and its effectiveness in deployment of firepower and movement.

Regards, Phil
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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 11:04:09 AM
A ccording to the GWF Phil --they--elements of the Cavalry Corps; were deployed every day of the campaign.

I am of the opinion that the virtually non result (Other than the bloodshed) of 1st Ypres-led to a Stalemate attitude in the Germans --hence a return to the fray at Ypres was very much on the cards Phil.With the Canadianns getting blooded.

Regards

Jim
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Pro Patria Saepe Pro Rege Semper

Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 12:17:58 PM
You’re right, I think, Jim in your comment that the outcome of 1st Ypres led to a change in German thinking at high command level.

Falkenhayn had been the proponent of the German attacks there, and the resulting heavy casualties and failure to breakthrough convinced him that there should be a more limited form of warfare, in which an attritional form of defence should prevail, whereby the Germans held their ground and inflicted disproportionate loss on the Entente counter offensives. He advocated turning against the British in the north ; when he was thwarted in this, he championed unrestricted submarine warfare.

The indecisive outcome of 1st Ypres was, in a sense, decisive in the change it imposed on Falkenhayn’s approach.

Regards, Phil
---------------
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"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 12:34:01 PM
Winter operations from November 1914 to February 1915 in the Ypres area, took place in the Attack on Wytschaete (14 December). A reorganisation of the defence of Flanders had been carried out by the Franco-British from 15–22 November, which left the BEF holding a homogeneous front from Givenchy to Wytschaete 21 mi (34 km) to the north.

Joffre arranged for a series of attacks on the Western Front, after receiving information that German divisions were moving to the Russian Front. The Eighth Army was ordered to attack in Flanders and French was asked to participate with the BEF on 14 December.

Joffre wanted the British to attack along all of the BEF front and especially from Warneton to Messines, as the French attacked from Wytschaete to Hollebeke. French gave orders to attack from the Lys to Warneton and Hollebeke with II and III Corps, as IV and Indian corps conducted local operations, to fix the Germans to their front.

Regards

Jim
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anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/23/2018 1:02:29 PM
BEF casualties

August–December 1914

Month Losses

August 14,409
Septembe15,189
October 30,192
November24,785
December11,079
Total 95,654

Regards

Jim
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/24/2018 3:50:12 AM
Early 1915

Circumstances caused the Germans, in the spring of 1915, to transfer their main offensive from the west to the east.

Whereas their aim in 1914 had been to contain Russia and to crush France, their aim in 1915 was, as far as possible, to refrain from offensive operations on the western front, and, with relatively few men, to hold the line by means of elaborate trenches, protected by barbed wire entanglements and by a greatly superior equipment in heavy artillery, machine guns, trench mortars, and hand grenades.

This would leave them comparatively free to concentrate against Russia, not only to relieve the pressure on Austria, but, as they hoped, to strike the Russians hard enough to force on them a separate and disadvantageous peace. Indeed Germany cherished the further design of crushing Serbia, bringing Bulgaria and Greece into a panGerman alliance, and thus realizing her ambition of a Middle-Europe and a Middle-Asia which would extend from Berlin to the Persian Gulf.

Although, by the German quiescence on the western front, the British were given fifteen more months to prepare, they and the French lost many men in a policy of " nibbling " or attrition, interspersed with a series of offensives which, although they aroused high hopes in their initial stages, regained little territory at great cost, though they achieved something in wearing down the enemy as well.

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/24/2018 4:56:53 AM
Jim,

Where is that passage from ?

It omits something crucial : the Franco British attacks in the West in 1915 were launched largely to help the Russians.

Coalition warfare required this.

Between May and September 1915 more than two million Russians were killed, wounded or captured and Warsaw fell to the Germans.

It was a crisis, and Joffre was responding to Russian pleas.

That, and, of course, trying to expel the German invader from French soil and wear them down as well.

We’ve surveyed the Hundred Days of 1914, and you’ve been kind enough to post the figures for British casualties in 1914. The worst month for the British was November, with about thirty thousand casualties. See if you can get the same source to provide British casualties for April and May 1915, France and Flanders.
Quite shocking...hardly German quiescence on the western front .

I wouldn’t be surprised if we discover that the British suffered more casualties there in April and May alone than they had lost in the entire five months of 1914, and then there were those awful Gallipoli casualties as well.

The French, I would guess, suffered three times as many casualties as the British during those two months.

German medical history data indicate 203,563 casualties on the Western Front, April-May, 1915.

The Germans did launch some attacks in that time, the most significant being that at Ypres where they unleashed chlorine gas on 22 April.

Regards, Phil
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"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/24/2018 5:35:50 AM
Hi Phil--the article is quite detailed and I am fairly certain it covers the outcome.It is a lengthy article-- so I;ll say no more and leave you to judge it;s content.Please excuse punctuation marks--my eyes are playing up again.

PS Maybe worth printing off



[Read More]

Regards

Jim
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/24/2018 8:56:50 AM
The Campaign of 1915 on the Western Front

Meantime, while Germany was extending and consolidating her power in eastern Europe, the Allies were making small gains at a heavy cost on the western front, with the threefold design of breaking through if possible, of diverting pressure on the Russian front, and of wearing down the enemy forces by attrition. All the while, the British were working to increase, train, and equip their army.

In the long run they accomplished marvels ; but it took them a good while to realize the necessity of conscription, and to produce artillery and high explosive shells in adequate quantities. Following local offensives undertaken by the French, the British launched, 10 March, an attack against Neuvc Chapelle, on a four-mile front southeast of Lille.

In this attack, preceded by heavy drum fire, they cleared the German first line trenches and, to some extent, the second ; but, after gaining a mile of ground, they were repulsed, having sustained1 as well as having inflicted heavy casualties. The only drive of any consequence undertaken by the Germans on the western front, in 1915, was that resulting in the Second Battle of Ypres, which began 22 April.

This battle will ever bear an evil memory, for it was here that the Germans violated international law and roused the fury of the Allies by first using poison gas - a crime which was to cause untold suffering to themselves as well as to their opponents. The French Colonials broke and fled with terror, leaving dangerously exposed the Canadians who were ranged next them. With rare fortitude the latter hung on, though it cost a third of their contingent. e

The struggle lasted five days; but the Germans, if such was their intention, failed to break through to Calais, though they at least succeeded in forestalling for a time the Allied offensive.

Regards

Jim
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/24/2018 2:20:33 PM
The Germans had already tried poison gas against the Russians a month or two earlier , but the weather was too cold to make it effective.

Regards, Phil
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"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 3:52:30 AM
Hi Phil--it looks like we are done????--correct me if I am wrong to come to this conclusion.

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 7:48:53 AM
Yes, it’s important to recognise a dead horse !

Regards,

Phil
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"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 9:27:40 AM
Question is-- do WE do another together--although I have put up many topics --I am not always "au fait" with the detail. Please let me know what you decide.I am all for it but I get the feeling that I am letting you down due to my inability to discuss/debate more often than not.

Regards

Jim
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Phil andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 12:35:46 PM
The main thing, Jim, is for you to enjoy participating.

No one would rightly expect you to be au fait with details.

Whenever I post something about which I know little, I always enjoy learning from others more learned than I am.

This is how we make this thing work.

Be like the engine room you are, pitch in with your threads, and always venture an opinion and invite comment.

Inevitably, some will receive more support than others.

If you post a thread which is lifted from some article , it would be lovely if you asked us how we might interpret it.

Regards, Phil

---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

George
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 12:49:06 PM
May I add Jim that you must not become discouraged because there isn't a great deal of response to a suggested thread.

People are busy or do not have time to do the research.

In my case, I have been reading the thread but my time is consumed by that woman in the garden wearing the foreman's white hard hat.

I just spent a couple of hours finding a replacement tire and tube for the wheelbarrow. And now I am hiding though I do hear her calling.

Sometimes threads just sit for a while and then suddenly someone jumps in, days or weeks later. That is what I have noticed anyway.

Jim, if you think that every thread must have an end point or must follow some chronological order that you have set for the progress of the thread, there will be less enjoyment for you. Sometimes the tangent taken becomes more fun to discuss than the original thread.

So please, follow Phil's advice and just enjoy the journey. You are performing great service as you suggest new topics. Thank you for that.

Cheers,

Geoerge

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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 12:58:48 PM
I can only repeat the advice from Phil and George. There are points where I would like to jump in but it may mean writing a half-doctorate. Just because I´m not posting doesn´t mean I´m not reading and enjoying.

Trevor
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Some swim with the stream. Some swim against the stream. Me - I´m stuck somewhere in the woods and can´t even find the stupid stream.

anemone
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 1:22:47 PM
Hi Phil--I have carefully read your post; and taken note of your pointers which I know are correct and fair --for which my thanks.

I will put up a new (old refurbished) topic for tomorrow The title will be in the form of a challenge and I will say "what I think" in the intro.It will not be a single subject ie 1st or 2nd anything.

Regards

Jim
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Phil Andrade
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Re: The"Hundred Day"s in 1914
Posted on: 5/25/2018 2:15:11 PM

Quote:
Hi Phil--I have carefully read your post; and taken note of your pointers which I know are correct and fair --for which my thanks.

I will put up a new (old refurbished) topic for tomorrow The title will be in the form of a challenge and I will say "what I think" in the intro.It will not be a single subject ie 1st or 2nd anything.

Regards

Jim
--anemone


That would be great, Jim !

Regards, Phil
---------------
"Egad, sir, I do not know whether you will die on the gallows or of the pox!"

"That will depend, my Lord, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Earl of Sandwich and John Wilkes

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